flycumulus, cheap Cirrus hire ?

[PompeyPaul]

Has anybody any experience of fly cumulus Fly Cumulus - The best way to hire a light aircraft in the UK (http://www.flycumulus.com) ? Looking at the website it would appear you select the number of hours you are going to fly each year, then pay that monthly charge. So if you wanted to fly 30 hours a year, you'd be paying £368.20 a month, which works out at £4418 in total, or £147 an hour dry. This seems, very cheap, to cheap. Anybody involved and seen how it worked ?

[LynxSports]

Yes, i am a member on that rate and that is what you pay and that is what you get.

Happy to discuss it with you if you like? or if there are any questions then would be happy to answer them here.

Regards
Stuart

[Morgo]

Cirrus147.com has a similar price for their SR20 based at Blackbushe (albeit a steam gauge G1 rather than G2), charging £148 for flight time, and invoice for the exact fuel used rather than applying a flat rate of 11.25gph as Cumulus does.

There are guys in my group who also fly with Cumulus and they have good things to say about their experiences with them.

(disclaimer: i'm in the cirrus147 group!)

[1800ed]

I've been in N147CD once or twice before :) But that's probably the deciding factor for a lot of people, Cumulus' aircraft are G-reg and 147's are N-reg...

[IO540]

£147/hr dry is not too cheap for a Cirrus.

I used to rent out my TB20 for £80/hr dry and was making £30/hr profit on that, over the DOC.

At £147/hr they are doing OK out of it, IMHO. So long as it doesn't sit around.

[Cusco]

I heard that the Cambridge branch of the Cumulus outfit was closing down: Can anybody confirm/deny that?

Cusco.

[Rodent1982]

Came across these guys yesterday. Prices would probably be higher, but if you wanted a go in an SR20 without paying a monthly fee the prices aren't unreasonable.

Aircraft Hire - Home Page (http://www.aircrafthire.tv/index.html)

£195 + VAT per hr WET

[Fuji Abound]

£147/hr dry is not too cheap for a Cirrus.



I have not done the maths, but if you are running this as a "commercial" operation I would be surprised if the economics work - but good luck to them and their users whether I am right or wrong.

[Contacttower]

Came across these guys yesterday. Prices would probably be higher, but if you wanted a go in an SR20 without paying a monthly fee the prices aren't

Yes it does look good from a pure hire perspective, only one hour a day minimum as well. Pity it's not on the N reg. ;)

[IO540]

It depends on the utilisation, Fuji.

If the plane flies 50hrs/year, it won't work.

With these "nice" planes, the trick comes mostly down to setting the rate at a level at which it is attractive to good current serious pilots (many of whom could afford their own plane, and would appreciate the huge advantages of ownership) and to get good utilisation at that price level.

It's "obviously" easy to get high utilisation if you drop the price but then you are getting all kinds of riffraf in there and the plane will get wrecked. This is probably why these operations are getting pilots to buy an hour block - it shows commitment to currency.

The customer base is quite limited if you exclude low hour VFR-only PPLs. However, I don't think any of these groups require an instrument qualification - that was one of my "mistakes" :)

[Fuji Abound]

IO

As always you make some good points.

I think with these type of operations one of their big advantages can be all the operational support that is factored into the equation - which can include the administration, provision of training, check airmen, maintenace, etc. Operated properly pilots have little more to do than turn up and fly in the knowledge everything will be in good order. Understandably there is a cost involved and anyone running this type of operation needs to ensure that cost is properly factored in.

I am not suggesting that there arent some owners who rent their aircraft who do an equally good job but usually they give of their time freely so the cost is not included in the equation.

Moreover, many owners will not pass on any of the finance costs particularly if they have purchased the aircraft outright and although they may include some costs towards engine and prop funds they probably do not fully factor in depreciation because they are just grateful to have a few people contributing to the fixed costs.

All of these issues add up to the difference between a sustainable operation and one based on more alturistic motives.

I think you are right about the instrument aspect, but I guess we have all seen some pretty dreadful instrument pilots as well. More to the point an instrument rating I suspect says very little about how well a pilot will actually care for the aircraft.

[edcumulus]

We at Cumulus can confirm that the Cambridge location has been closed on a temporary basis until we can increase the numbers of pilots wanting to fly from there.

We hope to be back there soon.

Ed Holmes
Managing Director
Cumulus

[IO540]

I agree, Fuji. If doing it commercially, all costs incl. finance have to be brought into it. However, finance is a fixed cost and so we are back to total hours flown.

Also agree that VFR-only pilots should not be discriminated against. The trick there is, I found, to eliminate the 100kt-map+stopwatch brigade because they will get into trouble doing that, especially if going into say France where there is a realistic prospect of confiscation.

The purchase of the hourly blocks has the effect of providing a safety net on the risk of low utilisation, because if you have sold 500 hours worth of blocks but nobody actually rents the plane, you have not lost a huge amount of money.

The management must be significant because somebody has to fly the plane to some place where the 50hr etc checks are done, and it won't be the renter.

[Morgo]

edcumulus - what is the likelihood of you basing a Cirrus in Biggin? Also, where did all your SR22s go?

[englishal]

The purchase of the hourly blocks
That is how the non capital groups work....as there won't be any refund for unused hours. I was in one non capital group and signed up for 50 hours per year - then the owner went and sold one of the aeroplanes then one was out for a while for maintenance. But he'd already sold 500hrs plus for the year, so his numbers were good.

Regarding Cumulus though, they look pretty good to me. If they had an N reg Cirrus at Bournemouth I'd certainly sign up. Can the aeroplanes be taken away for extended periods?

[Rodent1982]

Can someone please explain the difference between the G-Reg and N-Reg Cirrus? :bored:

[englishal]

If there is an N painted on the tail, I can fly it IFR throughout Europe. If there is a G I can't. I don't want to have use of a capable IFR tourer without the legality to be able to fly it IFR...

[007helicopter]

Both these outfits sound a very good deal if the planes are near your home even better.

[IO540]

Can someone please explain the difference between the G-Reg and N-Reg Cirrus?

The G-reg needs a JAA IR to fly IFR around Europe.

The N-reg needs a FAA IR to fly IFR around Europe.

Either can be flown VFR in the UK, on a UK or FAA PPL.

The G can be flown worldwide VFR on any ICAO PPL.

Clear as mud? :)

Put simply, there are very very few European pilots who hold a JAA IR which is actually valid, so the G-reg planes are attractive to average UK PPL pilots, for normal VFR flight.

There is a much larger group of European pilots who have the FAA IR (and an FAA PPL of some kind) and these want the N-reg plane so they can fly airways all over Europe.

Two different markets.

[LynxSports]

Yes they can be taken away for periods.

There are rules of course to make it fair for all.

Stuart