Keep at it Guys. This job is Fantastic

[handflown]

Hi Guys/Gals,

Just wanted to say a little something. In the Terms of Endearment forum there is a thread about what you like about this job. Have a look at it. It is great to see that we all do love what we do which is why we do it. So often on this website it is full of negatives and I talk to allot of Wannabees around the UK and Europe who question this as a career so I thought I would convert my feelings into your wnnabe forum.

I started training for my ATPL exactly 8 years ago today and now I am a Captain. I have flown a variety of types from Biz Jets, Turbo -props to the B737.

I just wanted to say keep at it. This is a fantastic job and you will definately be glad you started this career when you get here. Its simply amazing and I seem to enjoy it more every day. There are so many plus points. The money is very good despite what allot of people say. Just compare it to other careers. Allot of people forget that we get allot of allowances and flight pay which is only partly taxed so our take home is allot better. We don't work that hard. I think I have only worked a full week about twice in 5-6 years. In the winter I often only work 5-10 days a month!!!!

The main reason this job is so great is that generally we all love doing it. You are around like minded people who all have worked hard to get here (pilots and cabin crew) and we all just have a great time. We all just love it and 99% of people that are in the industry are really good guys. The banter is great the job is fantastic and the views are amazing. Its a happy atmosphere to work in and you gain a tremendous amount of professional satisfaction. I can go on and on about why we like to fly aircraft.

Please do not feel put off by the current economic crisis this is the right time to learn. We have seen recessions many times before and this industry like many others has peaks and troughs. Just remember right now the industry is bad. No-one is recruiting. Most wannabes are not learning to fly as they think it is an unsafe thing to do and often can't get bank funding to start. Many may not percieve this as a viable career option. However many pilots have become unemployed in the UK and gone off to the middle east or asia for an ex-pat lifestyle. Many pilots are taking voluntary redundancy and still the same amount are retiring.

THIS MEANS IN A FEW YEARS THERE WILL BE A BIG PILOT SHORTAGE AGAIN. This business will pick up and airlines will not be able to train people quick enough. Its happened before and it will happen again.

So this is the time to do your ATPL so you will be ready 2-3 years down the line for when the job market picks up - Trust me.

When you get here you will love it. One thing I notice guys is that as I get older my friends in other professions seem to work harder and harder. Long hours every day and they have stresses and strains of targets and appraisals and deadlines etc etc.

I don't haha.

I get off the aircraft and leave work behind me.

Today I did a 4 hour duty, started at 7am LOCAL finished at 11am LOCAL and I am now spending the day at the gym then sitting in a beer garden in the sun. My friends are still in the office.

Funny thing is I had such a great time at work all week I really can't wait to go back to work again next week.

You can't put a price on that.

I remember what it is like when you are training and wondering if you will ever get there. We all take different amounts of time to get there depending on the market but you will get there trust me.

Keep at it guys, I look forward to flying with you.

Handflown:ok:

[JB007]

Err...nah! Either Head of Training for an FTO or a 16 year old...

[JB007]

Today I did a 4 hour duty, started at 7am finished at 11am

Next time you write something like that it would be a good idea to submit the post after 11am...and not at 0942!!!!!! The Captains we First Officer's have to fly with these dayshttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-rolleyes008.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Such a simple thing...

[G SXTY]

Oohh, you cynic. ;)

Have to say I'd agree with most of what handflown says, except the bit about a big pilot shortage. Or maybe he means a shortage of big pilots - who can say?

On a good day, this is the best job in the world - in fact it's not a job, it's a way of life. That needs to be balanced against the not inconsiderable downsides (earlies, sims, daft security etc etc) and the huge financial risks in getting qualified and finding your first job.

That said, I can't imagine doing anything else. :ok:

[Alex Whittingham]

At least check his posting history before being so cynical JB007! Our profession probably has a higher percentage of people who genuinely love their jobs than any other.

[handflown]

JB007

I am not in the UK at the moment. There are different time zone changes around the world you see. I will change it to started at 7am Local and finished at 11am Local for those who can't appreciate the geography of our job!!!

Also I am currently flying as a Captain for a Shorthaul operator so this is not a propaganda post. I am just trying to paint a positive picture and lend some advice. I apologise in advance for any critism that may create. PM me if you want!!!

Oh and yes I do really love my Job. Thank you.

Hope this clears a few points up.

[KSM]

I print out your post handflown its so good and positiv:ok:

[JB007]

I stand corrected on handflown...apologies...

Apart from your pilot shortage, it doesn't stand up, in the UK at least! My airline is proof of that alone...

Your posting was just a little too 'sickly' for my liking, although in a Wannabe Forum I suppose it's fitting and what the average Wannabe may focus on - I don't work with anyone who doesn't love this job and I agree with G_SXTY, it is a way of life that I wouldn't change - but it is a job and I don't live to work.

Maybe my Cynicism is proof I should stay out of Wannabe Forums!http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-whacky059.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[handflown]

Sorry its just what I think. I currently work for a company that is far from perfect but I still enjoy flying.

I enjoy my job and was just trying make a positive impact and I didn't realise it would create so much cynical comments particularly from a pprune moderator!

Perhaps this website is only good for people taking information and winging instead of someone trying to be nice and happy about what they do.
I think as current Airline Pilots it is our duty to be enthusiastic and encourage those whom are working hard to enter this profession.

:ugh:

[johnc21]

handflown

I for one appreciate your post. Yes we are in a recession and all that but I can't wait to get started full time on my ATPL studies. You get out what you put in.
In all the times I have visited Pprune this is one of the few positive posts I have read.

I am glad you like going and looking forward to going to "work" each day. I hope I will get the same feelings when my time comes.

J

[bfisk]

I think the advice to start pilot training now, is like the argument telling people to buy stock and fund shares now.

Some people will argue that the market is poor, and your best bet is to put your money in the bank. Others will reckon that what goes down must come up.

It's never a matter of when you start your training, or when you buy stock. It is at what time you finish -- or sell out -- that counts. But starting when things are bad -- prices are low -- will most likely give you a better possibility to get out while you are ahead.

When will the next pilot shortage be? When will the recession end? This summer? This year? Next year? Five years? Ten years? I don't know, I don't have a magic orb. Some chances you just have to take :)


FTR, personally I buy as much stock as I can afford now without borrowing, in good faith. I would not have a problem with my best friend starting flight training today.

[wobble2plank]

Start training now for an upturn in a year or two? Risky advice!

Along with the well publicised failures of some major carriers, XL, ZOOM, Silverjet etc. there has been a major, quiet and slow job cull throughout the industry.

Compulsory redundancies, voluntary redundancies, unpaid leave, sabbaticals for 12 months, tough rules on failed sim checks, not replacing retirees (there goes the new retirement bubble) and so on. The industry is bleeding qualified, experienced pilots from both the left and right seats at the moment. Major airlines and many minor ones are rationalising their staff base and culling all un-necessary staff and you advise starting training now?

United have cut 27000 jobs just to try and keep the business afloat. Whilst all are not pilot jobs obviously, there will be no 'rush' to return airlines to pre-crash manning levels. Add to that Delta, US and all of the smaller carriers around the world and you get an idea of how many 'qualified' pilots are out of work at the moment.

Take your two years training and then add on a year or two again as the industry soaks up the qualified hold pools that are currently full.

Not trying to be too negative, it is indeed a good job. (Although, if I am being brutally honest, Airline flying is not the most challenging aviation job in the world) but before you leap head first into a difficult and potentially expensive environment it is worth knowing the risks.

Good luck

[mattyh1986]

Handflown, your a hero! lol

No but on a serious note, thank you for taking your time to write somthing which made me remmeber why I even bothered to start pursuing this career. I got accepted into an FTO the other day and I've not had that feeling of "wow its really happening" until I read your post and started smiling.

Cheers mate!

[TurningFinals]

Handflown - Thank you! There was a very big smile came across my face when i read your post. Reading things like this makes me realise why i want to get into the business, even though it's going to be difficult.

I am one of the "wannabe's" who has chosen not to go down the flying route for the time being, because i cannot afford it and i'm afraid that i will put all the £££'s in and then won't be able to get a job out of it at the end.

I am going into the Royal Navy for now as an ATC while the economy stabilizes to save like mad and finish my ppl.

TurningFinals.

[kwokwinguk]

Very positive comments from Handflown. Thanks.

However, pls remember balance out all the pros and cons first before deciding to take action. Don't let emotional feelings take over ur decision!!

David

[tony2F]

What a positive post!! Are you sure you're on the right web site??


:D:D

[Adios]

Tony2F,

I'm sure WWW will run him off soon.

[tian yu]

Encouraging post capt! Been awhile since Pprune has got some uplifting posts :ok:

[Deano777]

THIS MEANS IN A FEW YEARS THERE WILL BE A BIG PILOT SHORTAGE AGAIN. This business will pick up and airlines will not be able to train people quick enough. Its happened before and it will happen again.

So this is the time to do your ATPL so you will be ready 2-3 years down the line for when the job market picks up - Trust me.

Nice post but I have to question these two statements, I'm not sure there has ever been a "big pilot shortage", a shortage (not big) of experienced pilots yes, but a shortage of 200hr wannabes? I don't think so, and you guys doing your training now will be just that, inexperienced 200hr (150hr if you integrate) wannabes.

The second part of that quote also needs picking apart, I would read what wobble2plank wrote, I have been advocating that on these boards for a while, when the upturn comes it will be great, airlines will be recruiting again but there are so many experienced chaps & chappettes out there without jobs how long before they are hoovered up? My guess is (only my opinion) it will take 18 months or more for them to be sucked up. That could be 3-4 years from now, or even longer.
Also I am not sure I would "trust" any one individual posting on these boards, I am sure handflown is a man of integrity, but one's judgement shouldn't be clouded just because we "love our job". If it were me I would make informed decisions based on a concensus etc etc.

Anyway, good luck with your training people, work hard, stay positive :ok:

[tropicalfridge]

As has been said many time of this forum, Don't take the odd positive post as a green light for massive loans. The best thing now is to go modular, take your time and keep an eye on the market. Things really are bad just now and getting worst, you know its bad when there aren't even any instructor jobs! So, save your money and aim to finish in 3 years time, but be ready to extend this if necessary.

[Aerospace101]

THIS MEANS IN A FEW YEARS THERE WILL BE A BIG PILOT SHORTAGE AGAIN.


There has NEVER been a pilot SHORTAGE and never will be.

There may be a 'DEMAND' for pilots in the next upwards cycle; but words like BIG and SHORTAGE are a serious over exageration.

Risky Advice - as someone else commented

[Ewanc]

:D So near yet so far but that puts it all in perspectve... Shame about those recently added pictures, anyone would think that you were posing:ok:! You look like someone famous in them ...it might have been George Michael?? Plog you on Monday, Skip.

[disco87]

what pictures? Take it I have missed something here

[moona]

:ok: Nice post Handflown, good to read something positive!

[BongleBear]

i completely agree with you handflown

when i first started out doing my training there were guys on my course that were all over 5'11". nowadays the cadets coming through at my airline are mostly under 5'9"

the big pilot shortage is upon us

[wobble2plank]

Bonglebear,

It's those damn accountants every time you see. Pilots at the start of their career are cheaper because, as you have pointed out, the pilot shortage makes them smaller, fitter and thinner. Thus cost less fuel to cart around and monitor the auto pilot.

As the pilot gains more experience, eats more crew food, drinks considerably more coffee (unless you fly for easy!) then you become more expensive to the company payroll as you get fatter, thus heavier, thus burning more fuel.

It's all in the demographics.

[JB007]

Not to mention what those extra inches save on the uniform budget...all adds up!

[johnnyDB]

Just watch a pilot lose his medical, his world comes crashing down.
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work. my 2 cents

[batman123]

yes,there is a pilot shortage of pilots willing to pay for t/r, line training, then working for free for years.

there is a pilot shortage of dady'son ready to spend a fortune in one of these integrated schools, thinking they will join BA.

there is a pilot shortage of captain, willing to work for peanuts in some crazy countries.


PLEASE STOP THE B....T, there is no pilot pilot shortage now, and certainly not in the future as well.

[wobble2plank]

I started flying, professionally, in 1986. At that time I was told that there was an upcoming shortage of pilots and the future would be all rosy and we would all have £150,000 plus jobs ad infinitum.

Oddly enough, it is now 2009 and I still haven't seen the panacea pilot shortage that will lead me to the hallowed land of low flying hours, massive pay and retirement at 55 with a yacht. :(

Aircraft are being laid up in the deserts of Nevada at an unprecedented rate. Not just the venerable old DC10's, 11's, MD 80's, L1011's etc. But modern aircraft, 737-800's, Airbuses etc. Boeing and Airbus have announced cuts to their production lines as airlines defer orders with no deferment date. There are not enough passengers travelling to fill the seats on the aircraft currently flying. Experienced, type rated and current airline pilots cannot find jobs. And still, the FTO's and inexperienced first job pilots crow about 'keep at it lads, stiff upper lip'.

When airlines start recruiting, as they surely will, they will start with the qualified pilots first who are a low training risk, quick startups to the line and easy to integrate. Once the pool of those pilots has been scavenged then, and only then, will they start looking at the training risk that is an ab-initio pilot.

Here is a friendly piece of advice. If you really, really, really want to train now then do so, go off some where exotic, get a job in a bar and kick about a bit flying some piece of junk between islands. Then, when the above scenario has played out come back and apply for an airline job. At least you will have a bit of cockpit banter that differs from the Oxford/Cabair 'let me tell you when I flew a Seneca'.

Otherwise. I, personally, would wait to see how the aviation industry pans out over the next year or two before committing yourself to alot of debt in an era where the country has committed itself and you to more debt than most of us can already handle.

Have a good long think.

JohnnyDB

Just watch a pilot lose his medical, his world comes crashing down.
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work. my 2 cents

Forgive me but I just don't get your banter????

[BongleBear]

Just watch a pilot lose his medical, his world comes crashing down.
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work. my 2 cents


i don't get it either. have you posted this on the wrong thread or are you smoking crack?

if it is the latter then you will lose your medical and your world will come crashing down.

[hightower1986]

People can say what they like about not being any jobs and poor prospects for the future etc etc but the bottom line is people will still beg steal or borrow the money to get there training done the ATPLs finished to get there fATPL.

Basically, people will not listen to someone telling them that their dream is a waste of time and money because they will still go ahead with the training anyway! Probably what ill be doing! :O

[G SXTY]

Without trying to do the mods' job for them, I've been around long enough (as both a wannabe and a commercial pilot) to know what this forum is about. Firstly it gives wannabes somewhere to get free and (hopefully) impartial advice - let's not forget just how daunting and confusing this game can be for the average zero-hours wannabe. I met quite a few of them at a certain show last Saturday, and by God do some of them need some advice . . . :ugh:

Secondly - and from personal experience, almost as important - it gives wannabes a chance to read the occasional inspiring post from someone who started off in their shoes and is now driving something fast and shiny, while sipping coffee at flight-level whatever.

Getting to the airlines is a long and bloody hard slog, whoever you are and whichever route you take. I had several moments when I came close to jacking it in and staying put in my safe, boring, 9-5 office job. When I was wavering, it was the inspirational 'day in the life' type stories (particularly Pilot Pete's, but there were others) which kept me going.

Thank God I did, because job-wise I'm happier now than I have ever been in my entire life. That's despite having just endured an LPC in the middle of the night (again) and having been up for work at 04:30 so often recently that my body thinks I should wake up at 05:00 on my days off. Despite doing four or six sector days where I barely have time to go to the loo, never mind eat anything, and despite some part of my anatomy setting off the sodding metal detector every time I go to work. It's worth it because I love flying, and I work with professionals who also love flying. I'll say it again - it's more of a way of life than a job.

That's a message that I think is worth telling, and that's why I think this type of thread is so important.

[BetpumpS]

When I was doing Cargo on the 742F, I could have written an inspirational post every day. Coming up to 3 years on the 744 and I'm now looking to get back into Cargo and would take a 20K decrease in pay to do so.

Point I'm making is that the first bit of luck is getting an interview. Second bit of luck is getting the job. But I tell you, after one year, the most important bit of luck is whether you enjoy the job - not the flying (the novelty lasts a few years) but the whole T&C element.

You may think that any flying job is great but if you are not enjoying the airline/company, you will have the same feeling as when you did when you sat opposite a PC wishing for a better life.

When I was in cargo, the schedules were horrendous due to time zones of weird and wonderful places we flew to, pay on the 742F was pale in comparison to our airline colleagues and we slept in B&Bs (providing the paperwork actually got through to the country in question!)

But I loved every single minute of it! Because my employer's T&C were excellent and you actually felt like 'one of the family' rather than a costly overhead. And this cascaded down to the down-to-earth pilots I flew with.

I honestly hope that all of you guys who are about to/have paid 30K for the likes of FYR enjoy the job and eventually get the T&Cs you deserve.

Because if not, those glorious pictures soon get boring.

[JB007]

Whilst positivity is important, I think in times like these it is more sensible to be 'Black and White' - post as many pictures, write as many 'day in the life posts' as you like, if this is your dream, put it off for 2 years minimum, it's simply not available to you, these threads are just teasing you - concentrate on another income.

I could write about the fantastic day i've just had in a B737-800NG, my awesome industry leading T&C's including the £60k plus i've earn't as an FO on my P60, but I think it would be fair to say that those of us who are flying for a living know we are just very lucky to be employed right now...it could end in November this year...

Have you read the thread on Netjets Europe parking aircraft at St Mawgan? How long before redundancies are on a table in Lisbon? My company (3rd largest UK airline) is already looking at it's surplus pilots for Summer 2010 - more capacity cuts? I would of thought so...the 'quiet cull' is still ongoing guys...

[MartinCh]

G SXTY > and despite some part of my anatomy setting off the sodding metal detector every time I go to work
That'll be the b:mad: of steel, right? :p

Agreeing with most of realistic posters, I'd say that 'where/when there's a will (+years of hard work, frustration from delays, gaps in flying, mind-numbing theory - unless damn lucky, ie rich, fed with silver spoon etc), there's a way'. No matter how long it takes to get there. It also takes planning, research, putting up with crap, cartload of luck. Right now for folks dreaming about big stuff cockpits and having the urge to start ASAFP towards CPL/MEIR, ehm. It's their life..

The only art is to balance life so that one doesn't start to hate their failures, setbacks, non-existent private life working like mad during 'best years'.

To all of you who got 0 TT or trial flight under belt:
Do not underestimate the burden of a loan (that is, if lucky to score one now), hassle of getting airline job (or any non-instructing PAID job), other things mentioned above.

I do rant tad too much in my posts sometimes, feeling self-pity etc. It won't make me give up, but it's hard to treasure the joyfull moments from (the start) of my flight training - helis so far, without crashing down to the the reality of messed up finances/funding plans thanks to couple factors. None of that relied heavily on loans, btw.
So, do try to do your PPL (A) in one go and have some spare cash for keeping in shape renting when embarking on modular route. Keep it in perspective.

[Kelly Hopper]

When I started flying many yonks ago, I was totally focused on getting that PPL. It seems very strange to me now that I never really considered where I was going once I had it. I guess I just kidded myself that once I had a licence to fly everything would fall into place.
Of course it didn't. But at that stage I owed nothing.
I would asume that newbees today are seeing the same tunnel vision. Go and get that loan, work to your fATPL, project yourself into that position now. You have it in your hand along with enough debt to guarantee never being able to afford a home! Now what are you going to do with it?
It makes a good drinks coaster! Frame it. Pat yourself on the back for achieving a very difficult ambition but what are you going to use it for?
See the world for what it is today.
You stand as much chance of walking into that jet job as seeing a return to 125% mortgages on properties worth 1/2 of that.
The world has changed.
This situation is not going to blow over. It will take a great deal of time to work through before we see anything like the last few years.
Aviation has shrunk considerably in a very short period of time. That has put thousands of guys out of work. At what point will any employer look at a new licence holder? Personally, I see no point for the forseeable future at all.
Really. Face facts. You may as well train to be a steam engine driver!:{

[BetpumpS]

Come on Jelly,

With Harriet Harman's Equality Bill you should at least feel safe.

Sorry lads, your days are numbered when the recruitment drive starts up. If I were you forget about £30K for a TR - get yourself down to the gender-re-assignment clinic pronto.

Practice walking in heels :}

[C-17 GLOBEMASTER III]

Never was a pilot shortage? from what I know a few years back there was a pilot shortage in China and India.

IMO If the undustry does pick up and you are willing to re locate around the globe, the odds would be more in your favour of winning employment with airline as a pilot.

[WELCO]

it's more of a way of life than a job


Perfectly correct:D

[NurseToPilot]

Are you guys that didn't GET this thick?

If you just take a moment to read what's being said before you jump down the poster's throat, you will realise that the poster meant that:

"To a Pilot who loves his job losing his medical would mean the end of his life as he knows it and that there are so many people in this world who are in **** jobs who would PRAY every day to be declared unfit to work so they can stay at home on welfare benefits!"

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:


QUOTE:

"Just watch a pilot lose his medical, his world comes crashing down.
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work."

"i don't get it either. have you posted this on the wrong thread or are you smoking crack?"

"if it is the latter then you will lose your medical and your world will come crashing down."

(the last person OBVIOUSLY didn't get it as he's throwing the comment back in the poster's face)

[NurseToPilot]

Well said....

[rafasvibras]

Nice encouraging words some people needs to hear, thanks.