Joining Canadian Air Force.

[CM6966]

I am 20, Canadian. Currently going to University in the States. Have 13 hours dual on logbook. I am wondering what's the chance that I will get into the pilot program in Canadian Air Force. Also I tried to apply online but it would not allow me to save my name and some information when I press "next".
Thanks

[YHZChick]

Your best bet is to pop into a recruiting centre next time you're home and have a chat with them there.

There are too many variables for anyone to be able to give you a reasonable answer here.

[CM6966]

I tried talked to them online and the officier was saying that it is very competitive and people wait in a long line for this position. I wonder how ture is this statement and what do they do while they are waiting.:confused:

[YHZChick]

It is competitive, and you will wait. You will do your basic officer training, and be assigned somewhere else while you await flight training. I know someone who was a year at Shearwater before he started flight training.

I'd look into how much choice you'll have on whether you go fixed wing or rotor as well.

[CM6966]

how are they going to determine what they are going to put you on? say if they put me on rotor, will they put you on fix wing later on? Is there any aputitude test sample for them available?

[YHZChick]

These are great questions, and again, probably best asked the recruiting officer.

My understanding--not being a pilot, but having close ties in the naval aviation community here--is that there is VERY stiff competition for fixed wing since so many guys see it as an entry way to the commercial airlines.

This goes back 20-something years, but a close friend was basically told after flight training he would be flying helos. It wasn't his preference and he wasn't given a choice, but the job of the powers that be is to ensure they have enough guys where they are needed, whether it be in naval aviation/SAR (helos) or fighters/transport (fixed). It might be different now, but I doubt it,

[Karakal]

As a former CF (and current commercial) pilot, my advice would be to apply at a recruiting center as soon as possible. If you are fortunate enough to get selected, you will have a decision to make. It doesn't cost anything to apply and could be the most rewarding thing you do in your life.

If you were to decide to accept an offer, the training is disciplined, difficult and demanding. Language training would occur unless you are virtually perfect in French and English. Waiting for your course will also occur with OJT (on the job training), likely at an operational squadron or headquarters.

What you would get in return is what I believe to be the best flying training in the country and among the best anywhere. I'll admit to a little bias here, but having instructed in Moose Jaw and seeing the program first hand, I stand behind this claim. You will also get descent pay, great benefits and more importantly, the best flying job anyone can have, with the added bonus of serving your country.

As far as the fixed wing/rotory question, IMHO there are no bad flying jobs in the CF. Determination after training is based on CF requirements, availability, course allotment, course placement and finally, consideration for your choice.

Keep the mind open and be ready to work hard and reap the rewards accomplishment brings.

Good luck.

[YHZChick]

What you would get in return is what I believe to be the best flying training in the country and among the best anywhere. I'll admit to a little bias here, but having instructed in Moose Jaw and seeing the program first hand, I stand behind this claim. You will also get descent pay, great benefits and more importantly, the best flying job anyone can have, with the added bonus of serving your country.


+1

Far better benefits/pension/treatment than any pilot's association/union will ever get you!

[CM6966]

Sounds like a tough choice because what I am really looking forward is get my time there and get out as an airline pilot.

[sec 3]

With grammar and spelling like that, you'll be lucky to get a job at McD's:confused:

[Karakal]

CM6966 - I believe that if your goal is to 'get out' and join the airlines, I would strongly suggest you 'stay out' and work your way up through aviation college, instructing or northern ops ... and then join the airlines. The CF needs dedicated people, not someone looking for what they think is an easier road to the airlines.

Just my opinion. Cheers.

[fatbus]

Best job/experience I ever had.

[CM6966]

how's it like? what are the main difference compare to the commercial world?

[fatbus]

Main difference is Airline flying is dead boring

[recceguy]

I do agree 100 %.

Unfortunately the Air Force will not keep you after you turned 40 or something, so you have to do something to keep your retirement days busy...

[dadof6]

CM6966

I have done both CF military (f-5's and tutors) and Air Canada. Both were exciting and very rewarding. When I left the military, they could not compete wage wise with the airlines. That has changed substantially! I agree however, with others here and would not recommend joining the military with half-hearted committment to use it as your stepping stone to the airlines. You'll just be setting yourself up for bitter disappointment when you are CT'D (cease training). The military wants you to be super motivated or you'll wash out.

If you want to end up straight and level with the auto pilot on for 30 years then go to a flying college, get your multi ifr and then work to get on with Jazz and then as soon as possible join WJA or AC. However, be prepared for some lean and mean early years.

On the other hand, if you want adventure and the best flying anywhere then join the military. You may end up flying a desk when your forty but you'll have many fond memories. Moreover, the early years aren't quite so lean and definitely not mean and you can certainly make your own career based on performance rather than seniority or your CEO's whims.

[CM6966]

Dadof6: are you suggesting that military life is less politic? I was a Cadet for couple years, I like everything about being a cadet. Would this be similar to life in CF? Is th wash out rate high in CF? Is there any difference flying commercially and for the CF when you talk about regulation?

Thanks

[YHZChick]

Unfortunately the Air Force will not keep you after you turned 40 or something, so you have to do something to keep your retirement days busy...

Hardly. One of my good friends will turn 51 this year, and he's still in the right seat of a Sea King. Will likely be there until he's at least 55.

[saudipc-9]

Well I'm 42 and currently flying the Hawk. If you think about coming into the CF on the "Air Canada training plan" then please don't bother applying. There is nothing more that we hate to hear than "I'm only doing my minimum time and then getting out." You will be passed over for someone else who has more dedication to the CF.
If you think you might like to fly at 420kts at 250'agl then put in an application to the CF. Good pay, great pension and they let you wear a cool looking flight bag to get sh1t faced in on friday nights:}

[CM6966]

pc-9: this might sound stupid but how do you get pension when they don't keep you after 40 like recceguy said?

[saudipc-9]

Easy, recceguy is completely wrong!!

The CF provides a pension to anyone who serves more than 2 years of regular service. However, you have to have served (now) 25 years of full time service to receive an immediate pension i.e get a pay cheque from the day you leave otherwise you can only collect the pension when you turn 60.
My pension will be something in the order of $50'000 after 25 years of service, which in the day of a defined contributions vice a defined benefit pension is awesome.
As I mentioned in an earlier post I'm 42 and still flying. I have no reason to believe that I cannot continue to fly until I retire. I can still serve for another 13 years and then retire at 55. By that time my pension will be close to $60'000 and indexed!!
There is alot to be said for flying in the airlines -big metal, days off etc etc and there are many very professional pilots doing that job. However, I'll take the 420kts at 250 agl any day because it's just too much fun.

[cheez]

I second what PC-9 says - stay away if the CF is nothing more than a way to the airlines...you'll be likely to fail out if you don't have any dedication to serving.

That being said, the lifestyle is great, pay is great, flying is fun and trg is better than any civilian trg I've received. When you do decide to leave, the pension is very good and the airlines love guys with mil experience.

And you get to get smashed with PC-9 every Friday in the Mess at Moose Jaw...what could be better?!?!?! :}

[YHZChick]

CM6966,

pc-9: this might sound stupid but how do you get pension when they don't keep you after 40 like recceguy said?

:ugh:

Yes, they keep you after 40. I have several friends who are well past 40 and still flying.

Perhaps you should consider other alternatives to the CF.

[wayned]

For the record, the compulsory retirement age in the Canadian Forces is actually 60 and your flying status is only limited by your medical status. I, and many of my mates, flew well into our late 50s.

[ahramin]

And you get to get smashed with PC-9 every Friday in the Mess at Moose Jaw...what could be better?!?!?!
Exactly. The rampant alcoholism is something to be considered as well.

[cheez]

Exactly. The rampant alcoholism is something to be considered as well.

Wow. Where did that come from? The remark I made above was a joke aimed at a colleague, and certainly not indicative of the state of the union at Moose Jaw or in the CF. To set the recored straight, alcoholism is no joke and is certainly not "rampant" among the pilot community as you would suggest.

Are you a pilot in the CF? Something tells me you're not nor ever were (unless you flunked out) to make a statement like that. Perhaps you should keep such opinions to yourself....:}

[saudipc-9]

Ya, I don't think I have a drinking problem at all. I go to the mess, I drink and then I fall down....no problem! Besides AA is for quiters!!:}

All teasing aside ahramin, you are demonstrating ignorance on a very grand scale. One of the best things I could ever think of doing is sharing a couple of cold barley suds with fellow warriors and aviators. That is a special moment you will never understand.

[CM6966]

flying 400kts on 250agl sounds fun. But how do I know if I like it? I tried aerobatics before and I liked it. Does that mean I'd like mil flying? How do I know if I am suitable for CF before I go to a recruit officer?

Thanks all for all those useful information.

[saudipc-9]

CM6966,

Some things in life are a leap of faith. I didn't know I would like it either but it was still something that I wanted to do since I was very young.

[YHZChick]

CM6966,
I'm not sure what you know about the recruiting process, but it is designed to weed out the suitable candidates from the unsuitable ones. The CF is not in the business of throwing away money on trainign people that can't cut the lifestyle. (Not a perfect process, but generally does the job)

You sound very unsure of what you want. If your goal is simply to fly for the airlines, the CF is NOT for you. That's been said to you many times in this thread.

There is AMPLE information availabe through recruiting offices. There is no rule that says you need to join as soon as you finish school. I'm sensing you have a lot of "growing up" to do yet, and perhaps you need spend a few years figuring out what you really want to do before you make that kind of committment.

[CM6966]

Thanks YHZChick and PC-9 I think I'll reconsider my options.

[SBfour]

CM6966. I disagree with YHZ Chick. Her comments remind me of why I left naval aviation and "grew up" with the likes of saudi-pc9 in Moose Jaw. Airlines aren't the only options after flying in the CF. Following mandatory service after completing pilot training you can certainly leave and try things as a civvie pilot. If it doesn't work out or if you preferred the CF it has been quite common recently for pilots to re-enrol. I'm sure saudi-pc9 can attest to that. I loved my 21 yrs in the CF and look forward to trying the airlines someday soon if I can grow up.

[YHZChick]

SBfour, having been in the CF, obvioulsy you are well aware that the OP may not be trained to fly fixed wing. He has clearly stated that his goal is to join the airlines. He has also stated he is unsure if he would enjoy the CF lifestyle.

The CF cannot, and will not, promise him on enrollment that he'll fly fixed wing. he could easily find himself flying Griffons or Cyclones (the optimist in me shining through).

He needs to research this, decide what his goals are, and then make a decision (like any adult would do when contemplating a major life change).

I think there are few piloting jobs in Canada that are better than flying with the CF. Commercial aviation is a long, tough road (see the Colgan reporting in the MSM--I've never seen the Average joe rally around pilots like they are doing in the comments on various new sites, upset about the hours, the low, low pay, etc etc) and to be honest, i don't know why anyone would choose it given the current state of the industry.

Every CF pilot I know is happy where they are (thoguh there are gripes about equipment of course), even the ones who wanted to fly fixed wing and found themselves in helos.

But the CF should never, ever be viewed simply as a one-way ticket to the airlines. That was my point.

[SBfour]

The CF has always been a stepping stone for some pilots to continue with a career in the airlines. The system is set up to encourage it. Not everyone is expected to stay in uniform for 35 years. I think there is a 7 year obligatory service after pilot training. After that time some will leave, some will get promoted and some will stay on as line pilots. It is all part of the plan. If there is a remote interest by a 20 year old to join the CF to be a pilot then I suggest he/she goes for it. It makes no difference at all what that person thinks they will be doing at the end of the contract. It is up to the CF to retain that person's services once they are trained and doing the job. A former army CDS once told me that pilots have been and always will be a disloyal bunch...

Go for it CM6966. Join the CF. Live the dream!

I remember back when the current WComd of CYAW had big dreams of flying the hornet and possibly flying in the airlines. Pilots sometimes do grow up.:ok:

[HMSB]

Hey fellas,

I'm a U.S. citizen but my mother is Canadian, so I believe I'm eligible for citizenship. I'm 21 years old at a state university in a respected engineering program. If I pull off a nice GPA (>3.5) and obtain citizenship, what are my prospects for flying? I've got at least 20/20 vision and I'm in good shape. Would the Air Force care if I've lived in the States all my life? Also, I've got a pilots license if it matters. After I got a taste of it, I really think I'd like to make it a career.

Also, does the Canadian Air Force guarantee a chance to at least start the "weeding out" process? Because only the Marine Corps does in the U.S., and it's especially hard to qualify.

[wskwong]

Just came across this post by accident....just want to say salute to you all for serving the country~!

too bad I wear prescription glasses.....not eligible for flying fighter jets :8

[saudipc-9]

Would the Air Force care if I've lived in the States all my life
No the CAF would not care but you would need to get Canadian Citizenship before you could apply.

Could you define the "weeding out process?" If you mean start the recruiting process then I would say yes "If" there are slots available to be filled.

[HMSB]

What I'm wondering is if you're guaranteed a slot in flight training if/before you join. With the Marines, prior to joining you can apply for their flight program, and they'll do all the tests beforehand to see if you're qualified, then you are guaranteed a shot at pilot school. I've looked around a bit the Canadian Air Force, I didn't see anything say whether or not this is the case.

[saudipc-9]

Yes! If you pass the flight screening phase before joining, you would then be given a slot in pilot training.

[saudipc-9]

Mopar,

I know that this has been done in the past but the person involved had done an exchange with the CF. Your best bet would be to send a e-mail to CF recruiting.
There is a re-enrolment link at http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/ which might at least get you started in the right direction.

Good luck.

PM me if you have questions of a more personal nature.

[za3eem]

Hi there,

Any body help me,
I wanna apply in Canada for Canadian Air Force, like (f-15,f-16,f-17,f-18)
Where and How????
(I am a newcomer).
thx.:)

[lostinauh]

How is it that no one else bit at this?

[clunckdriver]

Lostinauh, Maybe he knows about our secret base on The Rock where we keeps all them dem planes eh buddy?

[shamrock125]

Does anyone know what the current minimum service is for the Canadian AF?

[Pace152]

Hey HMSB,

So you have the right to live and work in both the US and Canada as a pilot. Am I jealous? Just a little bit!! ;)

[saudipc-9]

Shamrock,

7 years min after wings award. However, you can stay until 60 although not many of us want to.

Cheers,
PC-9

[shamrock125]

PC-9,

Thanks. How long did it take you to earn your wings? And have you got any say whatsoever in whether you go rotary or fixed wing?

[saudipc-9]

Average time to get wings now about 2 years give or take. You can state your preferences but the path you get is dependant upon 1. Needs of the service 2. Your performance and 3rd what you want. Over 50% of the airframes available in the RCAF are rotary wing, so multi engine and jet slots are quite competitive.

Cheers

[767-300ER]

To the OP....

If you want to join the RCAF, go for it...

Don't listen to these overbearing, patriotic aviators....

I did the RCAF thing (it was the CF in my days), I did my time, and I left...along with about 75% of my course mates.

If you have the motivation and desire, you can do it.

Would I go to Moose Jaw and brag about how I was going to do min time, and then get out? Nope....but lots of guys do it quietly, and are discrete about it.

Was the CF good? Yep, training was excellent, no other company in the world is going to spend that type of money on you, that's for sure.

Flying in the CF? It's ok, but a lot depends upon the job you get....flying a Sea King off the back of a boat in the middle of the night might not appeal to you...or spending 6 hours orbiting above a bunch of "fishheads" while they play their oceanic wargames....or flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog sh!t out of Hong Kong...and for most people they all become boring more or less

Every job has it's draw backs, including commercial flying..

The RCAF path will give you great training, pretty good money and benefits, but at the cost of freedom and control of your life!

But the opportunities from commercial flying have been awesome for me and my family. The travel and benefits can't be touched by the RCAF...IMO

[shamrock125]

PC-9 or 767,

What is the minimum age requirement for DEO? I could only find max ages on the forces.ca website.

Also, is the CAF currently actually recruiting pilots? If not, is there any talk of when they next will be?

Thanks,

Shamrock

[jamiepilot77]

You must be a Canadian citizen to join the CF (some ex RAF pilots were allowed to join up recently but they had fast jet experience).

[767-300ER]

I don't know that there is a minimum age published but one would have to have an undergraduate degree from a university so whatever age you would be to graduate from high school and from university would be the minimum age for DEO pilots.

[250hrsand counting]

Hey everyone i know it says you have to be a citizen to get in but what if i am a PR and due for citizenship next year, can i still join the armed forces taking into consideration that this is my 5th year in Canada.

[shamrock125]

JAA,

Cheers for the tip, don't think it makes a very significant difference in these circumstances, but ok.

Also, having done a fair bit of research, I'm still not entirely sure of the difference between the two.

[Back door]

The canadian military just recently changed back to Canadian Armed Forces from Canadian Forces with little fanfare. This happened around the first week of March 2013.
Canadian Armed Forces: Canada’s military undergoes a name change (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/12/canadas-military-is-getting-a-new-name-again/)

With the new CAF Budget being reduced by 20% not sure what we are being armed with, :oh:

[saudipc-9]

I don't believe untrained personnel can join without citizenship. Armed was removed under the sidewinders tenure, read numb nut Cretin, at the start of the decade of darkness.

There is no minimum age for DEO unless you're Doogie Howser and got a degree when you were 10.

Yes we are recruiting for pilots. If the recruiting office says it's closed ( pilot ) tell them they are full of dog turd and ask to see that fact in writing.

Any more questions?

[saudipc-9]

I think that I should also add something.

If I have to give up some freedom and some control over my life in order to protect the freedoms of others then so be it. I joined the CF and now RCAF with my eyes open to this fact and have spent well over 20 years doing it. If you are joining just to get to Air Canada or another airline, that's fine but don't shout that out because it won't go over very well.

[bigeh]

Is there a max age for DEO? I am 30 and worry that I might be too old to start now?
And do you stand a better chance of actually flying if you already have a commercial license?
I have always been very interested in flying for CAF but was always worried about joining and then not being chosen as a pilot. Would I have an advantage as a licensed commercial pilot, albeit with just 200 hours? I love to fly, so fixed or rotor is fine by me. I think the training and variety of flying would make flying for Canada a great life.

Any ideas on the wait for someone with their commercial license already?

[saudipc-9]

Bigeh-check your PMs. I've answered your questions there but for everyone I'll answer here too.

Having a commercial license might get you a by-pass from PFT in Portage la Prairie but that is about it. Training in Moose Jaw will have to be completed and there are no by-passes for that except if you have previous military experience.

Age is not really a factor as long as you can serve a minimum of 7 years post wings before meeting retirement age (55 usually). So with that in mind I guess 45 might be the limit thinking that it might take you 2-3 years to get wings.