PPL??????????

[paratrooper81]

Iv decided to get my PPL,
I work abroad 9 weeks then im home for 3 weeks, so doing lessons in the UK would take some time, What my plans are is to take some time off work and do it abroad in one go,
I see that some schools in the US say it can be don in 28 days, i find this hard to believe, Can this be achieved?

I found a very helpfull lady in Durban SA, i think shes giving me an honest answer by saying it be more like 2-3 months , Now to cut that down she suggested doing the ground work ie exams in the UK before arriving in SA, Can this be don????

im open to offers of any other ideas on how to get my license nice n fast


Thanks

[PAPI-74]

Where are you planning to use the PPL?
If you are looking at flying in the UK, train in the UK as the airspace is busy and the RT quite anal at times. A quiet airfield in a warm country in the middle of open airspace won't reach you to cope with being lost in poor weather banging towards Luton's TMA.
I would - if you are planning to fly in the UK - fly every day for a week (twice if the weather is good) and hit the books in the afternoon. Have a few days off to reflect, then hit it again till you have to goto work.
You should crack it in 3 months...
Go to a good school though.

[PAPI-74]

Oh!
Just exercise a bit of caution with the US schools and never pay upfront any more than £1000 - if any at all.
UK standards tend to be better too.

[172driver]

UK standards tend to be better too.

Yeah, sure.... :=

Now let's see:

Yes, you can do it in 28 days, BUT this means that you will have studied all the theory beforehand and passed the written test pretty much straight after arriving at your school.

Forget the BS about weather being different - if you can only fly in the weather you've trained in, then you better stay away from airplanes anyway. RT is different, but that's not difficult to learn.

What I would steer clear of are the Florida 'sausage factories'. There are loads of smaller schools in the US where you can do it in about a month and actually learn quite a bit more than in the UK, e.g. flying 'in the system' (controlled airspace) and at night.

[Grob Driver]

Firstly, to answer your question... Yes, it can be dont in 28 days.. I've dont it in 28 days, my friend has done it in 28 days, and my father would have done it in 28 days had the aircraft not gone U/S during his exam!

PAPI raises some good points about the differences, but thats not a reason (IMHP) not to learn in America... Just be prepared to spend a few hours with an instructor on your return to the UK. I think my friend and I both had 5 hours back here to get used to some of the differences.

All I would say is this... there is a lot to be said for learning here in the UK, but I think there is a HUGE advantage in the continuity that you get from flying at some of the foreign schools. Learning abroad will teach you to fly in a very short space of time... Coming back to the UK and finding a good club will tidy it all up and make you confident to fly in the UK on your own.

Go do it... You'll not look back!

[Duchess_Driver]

Just exercise a bit of caution with the US schools and never pay upfront any more than £1000 - if any at all.

UK standards tend to be better too.

Talk about inflamatory statements. What utter crap.

Never part with any money up front that you're not comfortable with regardless of whether it is an American, English, French, South African, Ukrainian, Mongolian or operating in Australia. Each, in this economic climate, is just as likely to fold as the other.

Standards....well, don't get me started. There are just as many rogue UK schools that don't do too well in that department. I know some excellent US trained pilots and I know some VERY poor UK trained pilots. GIGO rules.

Now to the specifics....

1) Research what system you want to work in, why and what benefits it has over the other systems.
2) Find a school that you trust, with an instructor or instructors you get on well with.
3) Study any/all training literature well in advance. Get the exams done before heading off for the training. Yes it's possible.
4) Pre-read all of the exercises and prepare well for each and every sortie.

Yes, with preparation it is possible to do your PPL in 28 days. Yes it is possible to do the exams before you head off to get into the aircraft. That works for both FAA or JAA systems - suspect its true for most systems.

[Mickey Kaye]

PPL in 28 days is perfectly achievable. I know numerous people who have done it both in the UK and the USA and that includes all the ground study

The main factor is your commitment. You've got to be prepared to study most evenings and recap you previous lesson rather than chatting at the flying club etc etc but it can be done.

Why don't you give someone like the

The Great Circle :: Aviation Pilot Supplies & Flight Training (http://www.thegreatcircle.co.uk/)

a call as he specializes in this sort of thing. His advice is free, he's a good instructor and an all round nice guy.

[L'aviateur]

On the other hand, in 3 weeks you can get a lot of flying done in the UK. The last 25 hours of my PPL was done in 2 weeks with my cross country and skills test in the UK, flying from an International Airport.
Like you, I work away and come back to the UK and fly as much as possible. If you went to a good school and told them what you wanted to do, made a lot of bookings and studied hard to get your written exams and RT exam done (is good to have these completed early and makes it easier for the flying).
I actually lived in a B&B next to my school for the time that I wanted to complete my PPL.
Cost wise it was probably more expensive, but I never know when i'm going to be home, so its very difficult to get time to sort out the US Visa's, schedule flights and sort everything out.

[englishal]

If you are looking at flying in the UK, train in the UK as the airspace is busy and the RT quite anal at times. A quiet airfield in a warm country in the middle of open airspace won't reach you to cope with being lost in poor weather banging towards Luton's TMA.
ha ha, you make me laugh!

How about a 5 runway airport 17 miles from LAX and another 30 in a 30 mile vicinity! Oh, and don't forget the haze, mist, murk, marine layer, etc etc... ;)

Seriously though, I work away too, and I went to the USA and did mine in 5 weeks - zero to 64 hrs....back in 2000....You'll also save a packet in costs - pound for dollar at least, for better equipment.

Not "dissing" UK flying schools, but for someone who has the time, I would seriously go abroad as nothing in the UK can compete.

[Utfart]

I have a UK PPL, but have never flown or trained there and so can't comment on that part.
Now that we've established I did my training outside the UK, I can also say that I did about
10 hours of flight training in Sweden (over the course of 6 months) and finished the balance over
about a three week period in a country with a much more pleasant climate. I can agree with
other comments made that having completed the theory and R/T exams before going away are a huge advantage.
It made the schedule much easier for me to cope with in terms of focusing on the flying and being able
to apply the relevant theory in practical situations.
Freed up the evenings to go to the bar as well.

I haven't had any problems coping with the bad weather here or in other countries after receiving
a "fair weather PPL", nor have I had any R/T issues.
Fly how you trained, know and keep to your limits, and have fun!:)

[pumuckl]

It is perfectly possible to do the PPL in 28 days. I did mine in 17 days (that's all I could get off work). I did it in Florida where I got a JAA PPL. The only thing I would suggest is doing the ground school exams before you go so you can concentrate on the flying without having to worry about book work. That's what I did but some others didn't. So yes, it is perfectly achievable.

When I got back to the UK, I joined a club, expecting to do hours of instruction, but all I needed to do was the usual check out ride with one of their instructors which took less than an hour and I was good to go solo with their aircraft.

It cost me all up about £4000. I took travellers cheques with me to pay for the course rather than wiring the money over before I got there. I had no problems.

Loved my time in Florida, enjoyed the flying, would do it all again.

Cheers
p. :ok:

[paratrooper81]

Thanks for all the input,

I would be flying in the UK (sunny scotland) once passed my PPL, Im only home for 3 weeks at a time and like to spend as much time with the kids as possible, So turning up at an airfield evryday hoping the weather is clear enough to fly just wouldnt be good enough, i don this on a parachute coarse which was meant to take 7 days and it dragged on and on, Just say i did have a good stint of weather and got aload of flying hours in i would then be at work for 9 weeks again then would come back abit rusty

Iv found a school nr me (tayside) who would do the exams with tuition for £250 plus £25 for each exam

Which countries accept the written UK exams?
Is there some sort of interview with embassy to do your PPL in the US?


Thanks again

[pumuckl]

Have a read of this thread if you are thinking of obtaining a JAA PPL in the US:

Guide to obtaining JAA PPL in the US (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/278995-guide-obtaining-jaa-ppl-us-part-1-a.html)

Cheers
p. :ok:

PS: I got my PPL at OBA.

[paratrooper81]

(ibasically asked the same question to a school in SA, this is the reply i got)


Yes you could come to SA having done all the theory and exams (but no they would not be recognized here I’m afraid)
But if the point is to get a UK licence than that does not really matter – as you would want to get your actual licence in the UK and not SA.
If you completed your licence here, so getting an SA ICAO Licence – then you would have to rewrite exams in order to Convert it to a UK licemce anyway.
So the point is to only do the hours here, then complete the exams back in the UK – so getting a UK JAA/JAR Licence, and avoiding having to write the exams twice.

[BackPacker]

Which countries accept the written UK exams?

Only the UK (and all the flight schools that operate outside the UK but under the auspicies of the UK CAA, which are basically the three schools in Florida, one in SoCal, one in Canada). The UK written exams are specifically NOT accepted in any other JAA state - they only start recognising things mutually once you have the full PPL and up.

Is there some sort of interview with embassy to do your PPL in the US?

Yes, you need to be "interviewed" at a US embassy to get the M-1 visa, which you need for training in the US. Details in the link above. Also you need TSA clearance. In your case, you might be able to get this done in Baghdad.

what does she mean?

What she means is that if you go to SA to do your full flight training there, you'll be issued a SA PPL, which is NOT JAA (JAR-FCL) compliant. Thus, in principle, this PPL only allows you to fly SA-registered planes (around the world, that is). The UK CAA is an exception and makes it rather easy by recognising foreign ICAO-compliant PPLs (which a SA PPL is) for flight on a G-reg within UK airspace, subject to a few limitations, but not all European CAAs do the same. So to fly a G-reg worldwide, or any JAA-reg worldwide, you'll always run into the trouble of getting your SA license validated. Plus the correspondence every now and then with SA instead of Gatwick, plus getting and maintaining a SA medical, plus the hassle that SA doesn't do class ratings for Single Engine Piston, but requires type ratings for each different (sub)type, makes this inconvenient. That's why you will want a UK-issued JAA (JAR-FCL) compliant PPL eventually. And a conversion from a SA PPL to CAA PPL comes down on doing all ground exams and the flight test anyway if you don't have a lot of hours so is not worth it.

So her suggestion is to only do the actual flying in SA, but do the ground exams, the R/T practical and the flight test in the UK. Very possible but you'd have to find a place in the UK on your own that's willing to go along with something like this - they're not going to make a lot of money off you.

My advice: if you decide to go abroad for your flight training, pick a CAA-approved school somewhere (3 in FL, one in SoCal, one in Canada) since they can do the whole package (ground exams, flight training, R/T practical, flight test) in one place.

But it is true that all your flight experience as P/UT and (solo) PIC of a SEP(A) counts towards license issue, not just the flight experience you have had in the country that eventually issues you your license. So doing a few hours in one place (SA) and then finishing off in a different place (US, Scotland) is very possible. Do make sure you keep an adequate training record though.

[paratrooper81]

cheers , great advice , yous have cleared evrything up

[172driver]

BackPacker,

AFAIK a couple of your comments are incorrect.

1) The G-reg on ICAO license has been done ad nauseam here and I'm sure IO540 or BOSE-X will be along any minute to tell you you can fly it worldwide, not only in the UK

2) SA have changed (not long ago) to class ratings, i.e. SEP (there are several comments re this in various threads on the African forum)

Paratrooper,
My advice would be to go to the US, do an FAA license (which also includes night privileges) and then fly in the UK on that one. Perfectly legal, as the CAA recognize it in G-reg. Once you've accumulated enough hours (from memory 150 PIC and a certain amount of x-country, look it up in LASORS), you can convert this to a UK license by doing the RT and Human Factors (and perhaps one more, can't remember now) exams and a flight test.
Gives you best of both worlds with two stand-alone licenses. :ok:

[Utfart]

I went to a UK certified school in Spain. There's a list of all of them somewhere in the maze of the UK CAA web pages. If I ever find it I'll add link.

By the way, I don't know of a JAA school in Canada. Can anyone tell me where it is? That would be nice for Europeans to avoid a lot of security and visa hassles, although the weather may not be competitive :)

[englishal]

So her suggestion is to only do the actual flying in SA, but do the ground exams, the R/T practical and the flight test in the UK. Very possible but you'd have to find a place in the UK on your own that's willing to go along with something like this - they're not going to make a lot of money off you.
You're forgetting one important thing...conversion. If you want to CONVERT the SA PPL to the JAA PPL then once you have over 100hrs the process is much easier I seem to recall. if you are in no rush to get a JAA PPL, just fly around on the SA PPL (quite legally) until you have reached the magic 100 hrs TT then convert.

Personally I'd go to the USA because you'd get an FAA certificate, it is valid in the US, N reg anywhere, UK in a G reg, France in a G reg for sure (they are the only ones I asked), it never expires and is easy to "maintain", there are numerous FAA certified docs in the UK who can do the medical, and you will find flight schools who are willing to rent to you. I did a JAA PPL in the USA, but had I known then what I know now, I'd have just done the FAA PPL.

[BackPacker]

The G-reg on ICAO license has been done ad nauseam here and I'm sure IO540 or BOSE-X will be along any minute to tell you you can fly it worldwide, not only in the UK.

Great. So you're in Italy with your G-reg aircraft and SA PPL & Medical, and you're being ramp-checked by an official who barely speaks English. Not my type of fun, even though technically the combo is indeed legal.

once you have over 100hrs the process is much easier I seem to recall.

It is not much easier. After 100 hours (I actually thought it was 150, but oh well) you only get waivers for, I believe, three out of the seven ground exams. That's all. (Details are in LASORS but can't be bothered to check right now.)

I did a JAA PPL in the USA, but had I known then what I know now, I'd have just done the FAA PPL.

I did a JAA PPL in the USA too and in hindsight I would have done an FAA PPL in addition to the JAA PPL.

By the way, I don't know of a JAA school in Canada. Can anyone tell me where it is?

Just checked. The school that did JAA training in Canada was Moncton Flight College, but they suspended their JAA operations in Sept. 2008.

Welcome to Moncton Flight College (http://www.mfc.nb.ca/news_view.php?nid=137)

[172driver]

Paratrooper has come here looking for info, so let's at least try to be correct. Took a minute to look up the relevant info in LASORS.

Flying training: a holder of an ICAO license who has flown a minimum of 100 hours PIC only needs to pass the skills test.

Theoretical exams: same 100 hours, then you only have to do Air Law, Human Factors and the RT license.

Reference for above LASORS C1.2 and C1.3

So, I'd say - again - go for the FAA PPL, fly your 100 hours and then do the above. Voila! You've got both JAR and FAA.

There's actually another advantage to having the FAA license also. If you intend to fly in countries that require a validation of your license (SA, OZ, etc), then it's a lot quicker, easier and cheaper to validate the FAA one. This from own experience.

[BackPacker]

There's actually another advantage to having the FAA license also. If you intend to fly in countries that require a validation of your license (SA, OZ, etc), then it's a lot quicker, easier and cheaper to validate the FAA one. This from own experience.

Good point. But this only works if your FAA PPL is valid - meaning you've done a BFR in the last two years.

To find an FAA instructor and do a BFR, only to avoid a bit of paperwork to get the UK-issued JAA PPL validated seems a bit over the top.

But yes, if you fly N-regs regularly and thus have to keep an FAA PPL valid in any case the validation procedure for FAA looks simpler than the UK JAA one. Basically because the folks in Oklahoma don't take privacy as seriously as the UK CAA so you don't have to give them permission to release your personal details to the SA or OZ CAA.

[172driver]

But yes, if you fly N-regs regularly and thus have to keep an FAA PPL valid in any case the validation procedure for FAA looks simpler than the UK JAA one. Basically because the folks in Oklahoma don't take privacy as seriously as the UK CAA so you don't have to give them permission to release your personal details to the SA or OZ CAA.

Not only that - the process is also much quicker (and free on the FAA end).

[LH2]

Great. So you're in Italy with your G-reg aircraft and SA PPL & Medical, and you're being ramp-checked by an official who barely speaks English. Not my type of fun, even though technically the combo is indeed legal.


That's not a problem at all! All you need to do is shout louder than him and gesticulate more. :E

[aprildavy]

Yes, the PPL can be done in 28 days - I did my 35 hour PPL in 1976 in 8 days, at Edinburgh, in the summer. It was extremely intensive. I doubt you will do it in 3 weeks if you cannot commit to be being at the club from dawn till dusk every day. The club will need to commit in a similar fashion - you will need an instructor committed to just you, or perhaps one other, plus of course a plane committed to you (maybe one other).
Nobody can guarantee a 4 week PPL. There may be unexpected weather etc, so if doing it abroad, consider how it will be possible to continue it later if for some reason if the training is interrupted.
:ok:

[atceng]

Things must have changed at Edinburgh,when I turned up midweek last year to enquire about PPL/NPPL,I was advised to go to Glenrothes or Cumbernauld where it would take half as long and cost a third less.Maybe I got off on the wrong foot with the CFI as I interrupted his game of patience on the PC,but I should thank him and the club as they gave me probably the best advice, which I followed.After watching it take 20mins from request to actual take off for a club A/C I can understand his reluctance to let me waste my time and money at Edinburgh.

atceng