N reg a/c to Easa

[jumbojet]

Hi Guys, I am thinking about converting an N reg, single engine, 4 seat, non complicated touring a/c to UK or EU registration. As I start my research here, any ideas on cost, proceedures, info?
Rgds
Jumbo

[IO540]

I've sent you an email.

Basically, assuming it is US made, you will get an Export CofA which is basically an Annual with the CofA signed by an FAA DAR. In the UK, the DAR will charge well over £1000 for the signature so it would be cheaper to do it while still in the USA.

Then when it goes onto say G-reg, the local CAA inspector will look for any deviation from the Type Certificate. He will print off a list of 337s (major mods notified to the FAA and will chuck out all of them; these will have to be either ripped out, or recertified by a company with EASA design authority. Any field mods (minor mods) will have to be similarly ripped out or have the paperwork regenerated.

Then you get the 12 year engine life business; a > 12yr engine will need an overhaul.

Depending on the details, assuming say a C182, it could be anything from just a few k to being uneconomical..

It may be very wrong to automatically consider a G-reg. You may want to look at other European registers. Some might be easier (Spain?) on mods, and a JAA license will cover the lot. (The CAA is very worried about the loss of revenue resulting from this kind of thing).

With any registry transfer, make 100.00000% sure you have all your ducks in a row and the paperwork is 100.000000% spotless and the destination-CAA's inspector is happy BEFORE you de-register the plane from the previous registry. Otherwise, you end up in legal limbo, with a plane which is as flyable as a chocolate teapot, and anybody who can get you out of the pickle has you over a barrel. You may even be unable to go back on the previous registry without major costs. If you are getting a firm to do the transfer, make sure they have done it before. If they haven't, use one which has. (been there done that :))

[flyingfemme]

String. Piece. Length.

Depends upon the aircraft, its age, completeness of paperwork, state of modification. The whole aircraft will have to go back to birth and every AD and mod accounted for (or removed if the CAA don't approve it).

So - US annual/100 hr inspection, US export CofA, UK "star" annual plus.

Quite expensive, fairly time consuming and plenty of possibilities for unexpected snafus. Not for the faint hearted.

Unless you are after something rare and exotic, not easily available here, or something costing over $100,000 the costs of inspection, registration, insurance, ferry and import will likely make it uneconomic.

[julian_storey]

Why not just leave it on the 'N' reg?

[soay]

Why not just leave it on the 'N' reg?
I've just started to consider this as well. Are there any restrictions on flying an N-reg in EASA-land with a JAR PPL?

[mm_flynn]

Yes,

You can fly an N-reg in the UK on your UK JAA licence - no problem. However, the FAA rule that allows this broadly says

'you must have a licence issued by the country you are flying in or an FAA licence.'

One can debate if a JAA licence is issued by the country Europe or by one of the individual states. A conservative view of the law would say, with a UK JAA licence you can only fly in the UK. A more aggressive view would be, it is a JAA licence and you can therefore fly in any JAA state.

If you would like to read hundreds of posts debating both sides of this view a quick search will drag them up - the summary is, no example has ever been produced of someone charged with operating an N-reg with the 'wrong state' JAA licence and either been found guilty or not guilty - So we don't have an answer if the aggressive stance is correct.

In addition, there are various proposals with regard to the licencing of flight crews for foreign registered aircraft that are in drafting and will come into force in 2012 or later.

If you ever have occassion to go to the US you can, through a fairly simple (but longish leadtime) process, get an FAA licence based on your JAA one.

[julian_storey]

If you ever have occassion to go to the US you can, through a fairly simple (but longish leadtime) process, get an FAA licence based on your JAA one.

That would be my suggestion.

You can then (if you wish) get an FAA IR which whilst not a walk in the park, is far more achievable for a PPL than a JAA one.

[cessnapete]

Just renewed my FAA CPL/IR for 'English Proficiency' while on holiday in USA.
FAA Office were most helpful filled in forms for me! As I have a valid FAA Licence all they were intrested in was ID. Took 30mins and no fee.
Renewing with UK based Inspector through NY Office should be resolved shortly avoiding US visit.

[CJ Driver]

I think that you may be getting over-cautious replies here. The particular issue is with STC's and Major Modifications (form 337) fitted to the aircraft.

Firstly, if there are no mods, or very few mods, fitted to your chosen aircraft then it's probably not really an issue at all.

If there are some major modifications (like a different engine, a retrofit glass panel, whatever) then the question is whether the same mod has ever been approved in Europe. In the olden days (pre EASA) then any mod had to comply with the airworthiness criteria of the country you wanted to register it in. So, to register in the UK, you either need to reapply for that modification, or if you are lucky, find someone else in the UK who already has that modification approved. But now we are in the EASA world, and the new rules have grandfathered anything that was already approved in ANY of the EASA countries. So you don't need to find evidence that the same modification has previously been approved in the UK any more - instead you just need to find evidence that the same mod has been fitted to ANY aircraft ANYWHERE in EASA land. And, since many smaller countries routinely rubber-stamped FAA STC's, the reality is that most of the popular STC's, including ones that the UK CAA had previously rejected as being completely unacceptable, are now perfectly legal EASA STC's.

[tdbristol]

JumboJet; worth checking carefully on the 337s/STCs.
I have an N-reg DA40 with GFC700 autopilot: the GFC700 is an STC approved by the FAA. It may not be correct (or may no longer be the case) but when I bought the aircraft I was told unequivocally that this autopilot was not approved on the DA40-180 in JAA land; only the KAP140 was. Therefore at the time if I was to put the aircraft onto the G-reg I would actually have to try to get approval and pending that have the GFC700 autopliot disabled...

[IO540]

100% agree, CJ-D, however there is no automated way to check if something has been previously approved elsewhere in Europe, because there is no central database.

The CAA had its AAN database (which was pretty incomplete because a lot of US STCd items were "just fitted" in the belief that the old CAA-FAA treaty allows this) and one or two other countries have something similar.

Beyond this, to see if somebody in Europe has done a certain mod, the simplest way is to contact the U.S. manufacturer of the item and ask them if they sold any to Europe. If they respond, then ask them who they sold it to. If they reveal that.... then you can ask the European installer (an avionics shop, perhaps) who, for a fee, might be willing to send you the details of the job and their local CAA approval number or whatever.

So yes it can be done but if somebody is importing a plane onto EASA-reg, it is generally easier to avoid these problems to start with, because much depends on the attitude of the CAA inspector.

IMHO being cautious is a good thing in this case because if you get caught with your trousers down, you have a grounded plane.

pending that have the GFC700 autopliot disabled

You may need to actually rip it out, because the inspectors are well aware of the old technique of pulling the CB, putting a cable tie around it, and placarding the item "INOP" :) A friend of mine tried to install 2 x GNS530 but EASA refused to approve it because, they claimed (total bollox), one could affect the other through the crossfill connection. They would not accept the removal of the crossfill connection on the grounds that they knew the owner would just put it back in :)

The problem we have now is that every mod (minor or major) goes to EASA to be examined and they can do what they like. It's not like the FAA minor mod regime where stuff can be done and signed off by an A&P/IA.

[Fuji Abound]

Therefore at the time if I was to put the aircraft onto the G-reg I would actually have to try to get approval and pending that have the GFC700 autopliot disabled...


Correct. As far as I am aware Diamond have still not obtained EASA certification for the GFC700 in the 40 (or I suspect the 42 for that matter). Some early G1000s will not be approved by EASA.