Korean Air

[BlackWater01]

"Korean Air is currently increasing their numbers of Expat First Officers, this is a great opportunity to join a World Class airline and become part of the established community of Expat First Officers currently enjoying the benefits of this commuting contract. Home bases are available in the UK, US and other worldwide locations."

Anybody has some advice? Interview gauges, basic salary, etc...

anything will be appreciated!

thanks
BW01

[blee256]

Where did you find that info? There is a lot of info on this forum, but its all about ex-pat captains. A lot on the 777 and 74. What kind of time are they asking for, for F/Os?

[BlackWater01]

www.flightglobal.com (http://www.flightglobal.com)

PILOT CAREER CENTRE.com - Latest Pilot Jobs, Pilot Resume / Pilot CV Design, Interview Preps and more... (http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/)

Pilot Job Resources - Pilot Jobs Board, Pay Rates, Interview Gouge, Forums, Recruiting (http://www.willflyforfood.com)


...but still nothing on the recruitment process, benefit and all the good staff you are looking at when you want to find a job!

[Damianik]

If you apply with Rishworth or Direct personell, after they get your CV and they consider you qualified, then they send you the details.
It is roughtly 6500$ month plus max 1000 per diem, overtime over 65 but you not often overtime. 18 days on tour there in korea and nearby countries and 10 days home, with 2 days travel to and from you home. they pay for it on a confirmed basis. Business to go to work, economy to come back.
Insurance available to be taken from your basic salary that i showed above.
They are looking, but the FOs already in arent flying yet, the process is slow.
They put their minimum hours request way down since last year, dont know why, i guess the prospect to be FO forever with them with no upgrade isnt good for most.

that is all i know.

D

[VORDME2]

If you apply to KAL,2 agencies are above the others .GAP and CCLaviation and forget the rest.They are both really helpfull during the selection process and THEREAFTER as well.Good luck..

[BuzzLightyears]

VORDME

do you have any useful gauges for the KAL interview?

thanks

[capt777chris]

Is there any KAL 777 pilots who have successfully passed KAL requirements in the last 3 months on this forum?

[fatbus]

I know someone, close friend, passed the interview and the 777 course then failed the the fcl. Said the line indoc was supid and the Kal check and trainers were a big joke ( very full of themselves ).

[Samuel Adams]

"Said the line indoc was supid and the Kal check and trainers were a big joke (very full of themselves)".
With this kind of attitude, it must be easy for him to get a better job...

[BuzzLightyears]

Sam
would you recommend KAL to your best friend?

[wigwag]

Is there anyway of applying to KAL without having to use a recruitment agency ?

WW

[Samuel Adams]

"Sam
would you recommend KAL to your best friend?"

Yes I would. It is the best commuting job available anywhere. All you have to do is try to understand (and respect) the cultural differences, especially during training. Once you're finished it is just as any other airline (and probably better than many).

[rjh340]

I have just finished the sim/med/interview.
330 FO are paid 7000 US a month and that is after your insurance.
777 FO are paid 8000 and 747 are paid 9000. 737get 6200 or so.
You get 9 days off at home and you can add 2 vacation days to that.
I agree that if you just make a effort with the culture you will do fine.

[kk pilot]

To my knowledge, most all of the former SIA capt's that have left Singapore and gone to KAL (for the great US/Canada commuting contract) have made it thru their training process successfully while watching several other western airline only experienced captain classmates fail. Having a similar asian training experience and the subsequent flying under your belt is almost mandatory to make it thru KAL it seems. Those leaving SIA for KAL included several former DAL guys and they did fine while other DAL guy's with identical western flying backgrounds but no asian experience have had a miserable time getting past the KAL training. Food for thought.....

[batsky2000]

Hello to the KAL guys, I have an interview for a B737 PIC position in April through CCL and have a few questions about how the contract works to those who are in the know.

I am currently flying a BBJ, G-IV, and a Challenger for a private company that is shutting down their flight department like most of them here in the US. I have 1500 hours as a PIC on the BBJ. I was laid off from Delta way back in 2001 and have not been interested in working for an airline again, but the KAL contarct is rather appealing to me. I would get more time off than I get now, and I enjoy flying in Asia, and have experience in that part of the world.

1) What is the schedule like while you are on duty? Is it 6 on 1 off or something else? How are the schedules built? Do you get a reserve line for a bit, or do you get a real line right off the bat?

2) I plan to take the 11 days off option, how many days do they give you to commute? I will be using ATL as my base, and heard that you get 3 days, 2 to travel to work, a 1 to get home, but just want to get the real number from someone who knows.

3) I understand that they put you up at the Hyatt while at base, what types of ammenities do they offer if any? Do you guys get free breakfast, free internet? The Internet would be the best freebe

4) Does the company issue a cell phone for company use, or do you need to get one yourself? How do they normally contact you?

5) Who pays for the business class tickets? Does the cotractor (CCL) in my case pay for the ticket, or does KAL put you on a positive space business class ticket to/from your base? I ask this because I am interested if you guys collect FF miles, I am platinum medalion on Delta with about 900,000 miles in my account and am just wondering since KAL is a skyteam member. This would be a huge bonus to this contract, if not are there ways to get the miles?

Thanks for the answers in advance

[kk pilot]

Don't you have recall rights at DAL via their contract? If you were a former DAL pilot but then furloughed, why not go back there instead of taking the risk of the training at KAL? A no-brainer....go back to DAL

[batsky2000]

Its a no brainer that the pay at DAL would suck if I went back, and the fact that I would not upgrade for maybe another 10 years, going to KAL would be a NO BRAINER, why do you think that I have not gone back yet? I enjoyed the MONEY that I made at my current job, and domestic flying in the US is BORING, I was laid off the same year I was hired, do the math

Look, Please, only reply with an honest answer to my question, not some stupid remark like why I don't go back to DAL

Thanks

[Capt Chambo]

Let me see if I can help....

1) What is the schedule like while you are on duty? Is it 6 on 1 off or something else? How are the schedules built? Do you get a reserve line for a bit, or do you get a real line right off the bat?

We are now working almost every day with the statutory minimum of "24 hrs free of duty once every seven days".

2) I plan to take the 11 days off option, how many days do they give you to commute? I will be using ATL as my base, and heard that you get 3 days, 2 to travel to work, a 1 to get home, but just want to get the real number from someone who knows.

You get 2 days to commute, on the 737 fleet, 3 days on all other fleets

3) I understand that they put you up at the Hyatt while at base, what types of ammenities do they offer if any? Do you guys get free breakfast, free internet? The Internet would be the best freebe

Hyatt is correct. Nothing is FREE, but meals are discounted by 50%. The internet is available free in the crew lounges otherwise it is KRW5500 per 24Hrs (Approx. USD3.50). Most layover hotels the internet is free.

4) Does the company issue a cell phone for company use, or do you need to get one yourself? How do they normally contact you?

No the company doesn't issue cellphones. If they need to speak to you they will call you in your room, or normally they will call the FO who will then call you. Changes to your roster are rare, and I usually just tell them to put the change on the internet and I will check it.

5) Who pays for the business class tickets? Does the cotractor (CCL) in my case pay for the ticket, or does KAL put you on a positive space business class ticket to/from your base? I ask this because I am interested if you guys collect FF miles, I am platinum medalion on Delta with about 900,000 miles in my account and am just wondering since KAL is a skyteam member. This would be a huge bonus to this contract, if not are there ways to get the miles?

For the interview the company provide you with the tickets, and you pay any taxes and try and get them back. Once employed you are positioned to and from work in business class, upgradable to first. You travel as extra crew and are subject to the same conditions and limitations as if you were actually operating.

Hope that helps

[boyflyer7]

What are the chances to get interview for FO with 3000 TT plus with 600 hours on 737 EFIS
Thanks in Advance
John

[johntrav69]

I believe 737 is 1000TT and 300+ on type. Check out the agencies to confirm, choices I think are CCL, GAP aviation, Rishworth, directpersonnel and there may be others.

[boyflyer7]

thanks,
but with so many pilots on the streets, they must be geting tons of CV/resumes, so probably they select guys with a much more hours than they advertise ?

[flamingmoe]

Are the 3 commuting days in addition to your 11 off? (9 RDO + 2 ALV), so you work for 17 days?

[johntrav69]

9 days off + 2 AL which you can bank if you want + 3 days travel allowed for capt and 2 days for fo. Minimum requirement of days to work each month as duty limits are based on calender month and not rotating 28/30 days hence the min limit. Normally days off requested given with no problem, however over Korean/Chinese holidays expect to work and Capts can sometimes expect to work over xmas due to number of foreign capts. Back to back leave over end/start of month sometimes allowed if you travel a long distance home but not always. Generally very good on scheduling, the downside is you are of course working your butt off to clock up the hours during your time at work especially if you banked the days and say took 16days off in a month. This is however all worth it for the time off at home. Hope this helps

[batsky2000]

To Capt. Chambo and the rest, thanks for the answers

[BuzzLightyears]

Thanks Sam

That's what i was looking for!

[BuzzLightyears]

Sam

can you please tell me if I apply as FO I will not be able to get the chance to Cpt up-grade in 5 years contract?

Thanks

[kk pilot]

Sorry you think my advice was stupid....

so let's see - you have:

zero time as an airline captain - biz jets don't count
zero asian training experience
an apparent attitude to disregard opinions from individuals that have both of the above


I spent 20 yrs at DAL and was lucky enough to land at SIA when things went south at your former airline. You want to take on the KAL meatgrinder? Have at it.....

[capt777chris]

Could someone tell me what about Asian Flying is so different (and be specific about cultural differences please). What did the ex-SIA ex-DAL pilots bring to Korean that a Westerner doesn't have. I just found out a friend washed out of KAL, he went through 4 months of training, sims etc, and the last I heard he was headed into his casa oral and IOE . He washed out on either of those two things. He admitted that many others washed out also but has yet to give me a 'failure rate'. This in the last few weeks. How can an airline continue to train and fail to train what a person needs to pass to get to the line?

I would prefer to hear from someone who is now flying for KAL and maybe even from an ex-SIA ex-DAL guy who has the personal hindsight and insight into the problems of westerners adjusting to the Asian culture.

I have flown in the region both in a C141 and a B777 but am wondering what someone with my experience needs to bring to the table to succeed in that culture. I was passed by for any screening due to my gender, so I know there are cultural differences even I can't get around, but what about the guys.

Specific help, like don't hit on the FAs or bow to the inspector or don't look into their eyes, or "of course you are right thank you for your help"----that's the kind of cultural aid that most westerners need. Please help others put food on their families table with good advice not the berating I see so often on this thread.

KAL looks on paper as a good gig but it isn't if you can't get past the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

[Samuel Adams]

Buzz:
Probably not. They will not promise you an upgrade, indeed they will probably tell you it is impossible. But a short while ago they would "never" hire foreign F/O's.
Go figure...

[kk pilot]

chris777

prior asian (training) experience is invaluable - sounds too simple to be true I know, but the results speak for themselves. I don't mean to put down any unsuccessful KAL guys, but look at the differences in success rates.

To my knowledge:
former DAL with asian experience (3) - KAL success (3) - these were all former SIA
former DAL without asian experience (> 4) - KAL success (0)

[BuzzLightyears]

Sam Thanks

[batsky2000]

Hey KK Pilot,
You have no clue as to my experience. If you know what a BBJ is you would know that it is a B737-700IGW, ITS A B737!! Just in a corporate configuration, and I have over 1500 hours as PIC on that aircraft. The one that I fly has a range of over 6700 NM with the aux tanks and winglets, and we fly many 14+ hour legs on it all of the time all over the world. 98% of my flying since I left DAL has been International ops all over the world. I have worked for the past 2 years in the Middle east training pilots as a TRI. Over there I had to deal with the Middle Eastern mentality, training pilots from all cultures and if you think that the asian mentality is rough, well try some of the Middle Eastern ones. Just because I have been a Corporate Pilot for the past 8 years does not mean that DAL was my first airline. I was laid off before when i flew on a B727 for a freight operator that went under.

I don't think that I have an attitude problem with other pilots opinions, but it seems that you have one for just answering someones honest questions that someone asks

I asked a few questions and wanted some simple answers which is what I got without any wise remarks

Don't always judge a book by its cover

[BuzzLightyears]

kk sorry
i didn't mean to disregard your suggestions!
... and as you elegantly point it out, I probably do not have a lot of experience either, but try to be just for a moment in my pants while you are reading the good (I should say excellent!) package deal that KAL is offering despite this big economic crash!
I'm just trying to collect all the possible information I can get (to include reading "The Clash of Civilizations: And the Remaking of World Order").

so sorry again if I induce in you the improper feeling of not giving enough importance to your post!

[cpt777]

ASIAN AVIATION CULTURE
3 big words, one small conclusion: Tactfulness
Western pilots, one BIG problem: Over-assertiveness

Case in point:
Asian Trainer (20++ years as trainer, 30++ years as pilot): Your X-wind landing technique should be flown with crab angle, and X-control right at the last 100ft.
Western pilot (25++years as Pilot, 8 on the deck on F14, 5 as copilot and the rest PIC on DC 10 & 767): I DISAGREE. X-control should be initiated much earlier for better feel, control and eventual safer landing.

Any problem with the above small exchange? A mature and good Asian trainer and a western pilot would shake hands to AGREE to disagree.
The safest solution? Which apparently according to some of my American friends, could be difficult to swallow, was to just nod and smile: Oh I see, thanks for that pointer, I will look into it.

Many of you may think what is the big freaking deal now? Well, if you have to ask this question, then you belong to the 2nd group of Pilots that KK PILOT had quite accurately illustrated.

The hard part? Try now to think of incorporating this into every aspect of your dealings with trainers during your conversion, despite what your long stern and well built experience had told you that some instructions may not be the best suggestions or not even worth listening to. NOW you can understand how some will suffer more than others as there are chaps that I just could not convince to accept this small humility even though they were in need of their jobs.

My final advice? Be sincere in wanting to really listen to what the trainer has to say, if he (no she so far, sorry Chris777) is mean spirited and wishes to give you hard time; you can't escape anyway. So might as well just carry on to make sure that the flight is as safe as your PIC experience tells you to do so in the most pleasant manner you could think of, whilst accommodating as amicably as you can to any corrective statements from the trainer by swallowing your pride. I'm sure Batsky2000 will tell you even this does not work with some from where he has gone to before. But I can assure you, in most part of ASIA; you should do just fine.

Of course right after you have checked out on line flying, it's a different story all together. :ok:

[etops777]

To succeed, one word " OIC" oh, I see. Thank you very much for a valuable info...then you will do just fine.

[kk pilot]

Buzz - my post was not directed at you and was just an opinion - no more than that.

Stressful times are here......again

AND good luck to you where ever you land

[kk pilot]

batsky

so you do have prior asian training experience and airline Captain experience as well....funny, I must have missed that

my apologies.......I'll keep my opinions/advice to myself in the future lest I demean your obviously superior experience level.

[littlejet]

FOs commute on coach upgradable to business to duty and only coach when returning back to their home base.
How does it work in practice. Do they really give you the business class on the way there.
Why don't they give you the same on your way back as it does not cost the company anything if the seats are available.
Capt fly on business/first both ways. And why the 3 days commuting for them. Are they slow movers or live more far than FO's
Discriminating isn't it?
Did somebody tried to change the contract on that before signing. Any other agency has something different?
I was not born in the C class, but working long haul for 4 years already and commuting every month, I really need some stretch...

[4PW's]

Is that last post for real? If you don't like coach, just let them know at interview. That way you'll cut through a lot of wasted time. Think of it like this: you'd assist the Koreans appreciate how unfair their privilege and ranking system really is. Or not...

Batsky, take it easy. No-one is anti-Batsky. Just listen up, swallow your pride, put your hard-earned ideas aside and join KAL if you get the chance. In reality, and in KAL, B737 experience may see you into a B737. Good luck:ok:

[littlejet]

4PW, do you think it is fair?
I am not crying about it, I simply ask how does it work and is it changeable?
I have been working for Asian Carriers for years, and real life is quite different from what they want you to sign in the contract...sometimes better but usually worse.

[Damianik]

Guys,
i have just been told that KAL is possibly hiring current captains on FO positions due to the fact that are so many captains around at the moment from various outfits. That leaves the FO with no chance of course.
Anyone else with this information?
i was told by one agency i asked to check my CV
D

[fourgolds]

Perhaps there is one specific detail that attributed to the SQ guys success rate that none have mentioned. I have friends that tell me over 40 SQ Skippers applied for positions. They only took about 8! So what they really got was the cream of the crop. ( by their standards) and not necessarily a " group" that were more culturally adapted to the training.
Just remember there is often much more to these things than the written word ( mine included).

[kk pilot]

I am only familiar with the former DAL/SIA guys and they were successful in their KAL training vs the other DAL guys who were not - It seemed more than a coincidence that the DAL/SIA pilots made it thru basically without incident whereas the other former DAL guys were unsuccessful. I can only attribute this fact to experience with the rather unique asian training methods - which have been accurately described in previous posts.

[B737NG]

It is not easy to adopt to the Korean schemes, if you are proud of what you are then be proud but you cannot be Korean.

Korea needs Ex-Pat Pilot due to the insufficient numbers of output of the ROKAF and the non-existing GA. Hang-gung Aviation University does not attract enough Koreans to become a Pilot and since about 3 Years even Korean Pilots leave Korea for employment outside the Country.

If you think you get a fast track command in Korea then go ahead and read the following number slowly : 12 Years -- 10+2 1/2 average for Koreans. No Expat F/O will get a upgrade there sooner, my guess. I might be wrong but after 9 Years there I have seen alot, coming and going, sometimes going faster then going. Dont want to get that negative, just fact stating. There are some Cannucks since 1991 in Korea, works for them, get used to it.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[Cloud Cutter]

Hi all

Can someone please tell me what the social life is like for expats, particularly on the 73. Are you often in ICN, or do you spend most of your nights round the traps? Are you basically living out of a suitcase the whole time, or do you get several nights in a row in the ICN Hyatt?

Any other info regarding the 73 schedule would be appreciated.

Cheers

[Capt Chambo]

Can someone please tell me what the social life is like for expats, particularly on the 73. Are you often in ICN, or do you spend most of your nights round the traps? Are you basically living out of a suitcase the whole time, or do you get several nights in a row in the ICN Hyatt?

Any other info regarding the 73 schedule would be appreciated.

Social life in ICN is what you make of it, sounds obvious but with 60+ foreign pilots in the hotel most nights you should be able to find someone to have a beer with! Roster patterns have you typically working 5 ON, 1 OFF, and I would say that in my 18 (ish) days a month in Korea I will spend 10 (ish) in ICN, the remainder on layovers. That's not to say that you might not be flying through the night from ICN returning in the early hours. The "bag drag" rostering has become better but still a bit of an issue.

Schedules are generally for about 50-55 Hrs per month, with a mix of domestic flights and international stuff. Remember we also operate out of GMP (Gimpo) about a 50 minute coach ride away. Domestic flights are short, typically 40 mins (the shortest being about 25 mins and the longest being 55 mins). Most domestic layovers are typically min rest. and there is just you and the F/O (sometimes the cabin crew). Japanese layovers are also min. rest. Other layovers in SE Asia are usually 24 hrs.

[batsky2000]

I have a question that I don't think has been asked and am wondering about. Have any guys ever moved up from the B737 to say the B777 or is it pretty much the same as if you come on board as an F/O, you will never get to upgrade or move to a larger fleet? If it does happen, can it happen during your first 5 year contract or when you renew the contract for another 5 years, or never?

Thanks

[Cloud Cutter]

Capt Chambo, thanks very much for the very good info.

One last question, I'm looking at joining as a 73 F/O - how often could I expect to fly with expat captains vs local ones, just out of interest.

Thanks again!

[Capt Chambo]

I have a question that I don't think has been asked and am wondering about. Have any guys ever moved up from the B737 to say the B777 or is it pretty much the same as if you come on board as an F/O, you will never get to upgrade or move to a larger fleet? If it does happen, can it happen during your first 5 year contract or when you renew the contract for another 5 years, or never?

There is no POLICY in place regarding the movement of seats or fleets. You are contracted to fly for Korean Air via your chosen agency, on a fleet in a seat. Full stop.
OK heavy lecture over.... foreign F/Os are a new phenomenon in KAL having been in place less than 2 years. You would do well to re-read post no. 44 by B737NG regarding command upgrade. Re: changing fleets as an F/O. Hasn't happened yet, I would personally think it unlikely, but you never know. Bear in mind it would only happen at KAL's invitation but your expense!

One last question, I'm looking at joining as a 73 F/O - how often could I expect to fly with expat captains vs local ones, just out of interest.

As far as I am aware there is no policy in place regarding foreign crews flying together, and it certainly happens on other fleets. However just based on pure statistics foreign F/O's will mostly fly with Korean Captains. If I read the last Chief Pilots report correctly (It's in Korean), by the time you read this there should be 168 Korean Captains and 35 Foreign Captains on line, with 230 Korean F/Os and 12 Foreign F/Os. For domestic flights I think it's a huge bonus to have a Korean speaker on the flight deck to handle all the peripheral stuff, perhaps a little less necessary on international flights.

[B737NG]

It is mainly on the Cargo-Flights in the B744 that the complete Crew is Expat. In the Passenger flight´s on all Fleets there is a requirement of the Korean PA first. It is desired that one of the Cockpit-Crew members is Korean to make the PA in Korean. As long as the Customers write letters to KAL because of the PA´s as long it will be a issue for the "Company". There are even complaints of narrow minded listeners that the Korean versus English - PA does not match. How is a Expat able to judge what his Korean counterpart is telling the passengers or, what is he not telling the passengers. It is a big thing for them, not knowing what is really big.......

Fly safe and land Happy

NG

[BuzzLightyears]

B737NG

first thanks for your help, it's not easy to find people like you willing to give free useful suggestion nowdays!

to your knowledge KAL request a copy of your score in the ATP like CX does?

thanks

[BlackWater01]

wow

thats a lot of information

thanks everybody

[ben767]

Anybody has Interview gauges, and what is ivcluded in the interview, etc,......
From the time that you arrive to the first and 2nd day while you are in the interview, what steeps and exams are taking place, etc...........
Anything will be appreciated.

[broompusher]

Cpt777, Capt Chambo, B737NG & all KAL pilots


Thanks for all the helpful advise thus far. I am looking at going over to KAL for an interview in the near future (date still TBD).

My question is regarding the pilot contracting companies that KAL pilots are with. I did read about IAC breaching a contract over in Japan, how are they to deal with on the KAL contract? Good? Bad? Who are most of the expats contracted through?

Also, could I bother anyone who has recently gone through the KAL interview to give a brief summary of what to expect.

Thanks a bunch.

[CS737]

I just did my interview with KAL, and I must say that there is not much negative to say.
Things went as they said they would, but indeed one must never go into a verbal fight. Travel to ICN went well in Prestige Class, tax paid by me, tix paid by KAL.
After checkin at Hyatt, I was given food vouchers, bus tickets and Sim info.

I had a sim check that followed the stated profile. My partner did not follow KAL demands, and he was sent home. We became 4 737:s out of 12 to the interview.
Next day was medical at KAL medical center at HQ. A lots of checks; blood press during rest and during Treadmill, ears (several tests), eyes (usual tests) blood (liver, colesterol etc, etc), urine, abdominal check and chest x-ray. Also a several page document should be filled out. This session ended with a visit to the doctor. Here the ones who needed to retake any test(s) was notified.
Lunch and then a taxi to the hospital. A quick check of the teeth, and the same about ears, nose, throat.
Finally, some 5 checks on my eyes. The whole day was gone after these many tests and checks. I would say everything was done except "the rubber glove"...
Third day was the interview. It started out with all of us was given 100 000 Kwon!
Left all the required paper work that I should bring. Then the interview, 4 gentlemen across a large conference table, 1 american and 3 koreans from KAL, both pilots and HR-reps. General questions as well as aviation questions. They want to see how you appear, your attitude and ability to answer the questions.
We had a few laughs actually, and I felt quite relaxed.

The setup can be in a different order.

I am not notified yet, but I really did like the whole thing. As an expat, they do not want us to do anything else but to fly according to their procedures. Fair enough!
Not one expat who I spoke to wanted somewhere else! Regardless of type. All discussions about doing it "the KAL way", drop it, it is no different from any other Airline! I have yet to find an Airline who will change their procedures after new guys.

If you are not ready to follow their way or culture, don´t go!

Good Luck!

[Flying Mechanic]

when you are in Korea for your working days, do u have to lugg your suitcase with u on each trip, or is there a place u can store your suitcase/gear?

[Capt Chambo]

when you are in Korea for your working days, do u have to lugg your suitcase with u on each trip, or is there a place u can store your suitcase/gear?

The hotel will store a "limited" amount of luggage for you. :)

[Brave heart]

Hyatt Hotel Incheon has agreement with KAL pilots to keep few bags, read 3, in storage while they are away on either a home trip or scheduled flying duties :ok:...

[Brave heart]

Well said CS737...It was nice to read an fair-minded opinion.
Thanks :D

[Webslinger]

Couple of questions gentlemen.
Can you get hired through a contract agency as an FO with 777 type and 0 time in type but 7,000 total time and 5,000jet?

Also, if you are hired as an FO for a 5yr. contract with KAL can you re-sign another 5yr contract at the end of your first contract as a "Captain" now that you have 5yrs with "time in type"? Do you have to "re-interview" after each contract? Any ex-pats that are on their 2nd 5yr. contract? Thanks in advance.

[wall-e]

Webslinger

Gap Aviation can be the solution to all your questions!

[B737-3-9]

KAL has just canceled recruitment on B737NG fleet. Does anyone has more info ?

[Van Pelt338]

Where did you get this information?

[B737-3-9]

heard from a friend via recruitment agency

[Van Pelt338]

I just confirmed with Austin @ Gap Aviation that KAL is definitely still hiring for the 737. Shoot one of the contractors a resume' if interested.

[wall-e]

do confirm the previous pst! KAL still looking for 737s! contact Gap AViation for details!:ok:

[B737-3-9]

not for FO positions on B737NG but still on for CAPT and all other fleets including FO's.

[Van Pelt338]

Ok, here is the scoop. KAL is still hiring both Capt's and F/O's for the 737. I just confirmed this with Austin at Gap Aviation this morning. KAL cancelled the interview's for the 737 in May however, KAL did the same thing for the 747-400 in April, but there is a scheduled interview for the 747-400 in May.
So, send one of the contractors your resume' and good luck.

[batsky2000]

I heard just the opposite. I applied through CCL, and I was not offered a 737 interview in April because the majority of the 25 interview slots was for the 747-400 F/O. I just re-applied as CCL sent me an e-mail to confirm if I wanted to interview at the end of May.

That is all that I know, maybe things have changed again, or they are different for each agency?

[Van Pelt338]

Not sure how it works with the agencies on if some get more than others. I do know that they canceled the 400 interview for April as I was set up for it and now it will be in May. If Gap says they are still hiring for Capt and F/O then they are. They are good guys as are the CCL guys. Couldn't go wrong with either.
Good Luck.

[Van Pelt338]

This is from the CCL page.

We are pleased to inform you that KAL have now announced the date for the May B737NG interviews, they will be held from
May 25th to the 29th.

[B737-3-9]

KAL had originally indicated that they were going to have B737FO interviews for May but we have just been informed that they will not be conducting the B737FO interviews for May.

It's from one of the agencies. Could someone verify this ?

[SRS]

As far as I know Interviews will be conducted on May 26& 27 ? but not sure which types. All the contractors have the same requirements imposed on them by Korean Air. Things do change sometimes due to requirements.

[320330Driver]

Can anyone share some information about the A330 F/O training at KAL? Any horror stories, pass/fail rate?

[DXman]

Hi all,

Is there any A330 F/O who could brief us on the typical roster on the 330 fleet?

Whilst looking at the intl' timetable, it looks like you re quite often on your way to China, Japan (etc just to name few asian destinations), Europe etc.

How long is a typical layover away from base?

Cheers

[Roidelstein]

Hi,

Are there any ex-pat KAL pilots who actually live in Seoul full time rather than commute on this contract, just making occasional trips home?

Can an apartment be given in Seoul in lieu of the hotel accomodation?

Also, what travel is provided to the spouse of employee? ie, ID90s, firm tickets, do they have to be accompanied by the pilot or can they travel home on their own sometimes?

Many Thanks

[rodmacc]

Rudelstein,
Living in Seoul not officially sanctioned and may have Korean Tax impications. Any accomodation would be at your expense.
Your family get 4 firm ( and that is real firm) business class tickets per year. Your current wife, if second time round, and all your kids qualify and can travel independently if they wish. Each time you pass through Seoul counts as one ticket.
SYD - SEL - SYD is one ticket.
SYD - SEL - LAX - SEL - SYD is 2 tickets.
System works well and is one of the plus points of the job.
Regards

[Roidelstein]

Rodmacc,

Thank you very much for the quick reply, that is helpful info. Can I ask, are they Business Class for F/O's family or just for Captain's.

Also, in addition to these 4 tickets, can you get family members ID90 standby tickets, and if so, can these be unaccompanied?

Sorry for all the questions, just one more; If home base is LHR, could the tickets one month be to LHR and another month to another destination (eg Australia, USA) or would the roster always have to be to LHR for the 9-11 days off?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

R

[rodmacc]

Business for all concerned. You can certainly get zed fare tickets for yourself. Not sure about families on that one. Perhaps varies from airline to airline. Each month you can got to any destination on the Korean network.
Rgds

[Roidelstein]

Thanks for info rod!

[gocicigo]

So, are they still hiring B737 F/Os?

[heavan]

Hi there,

I just sent in my application forms to KAL and was wondering if you could
give me the gouge on the interview/sim/medical process.

Any info and advice that you could share, will be greatly appreciated.

[kk pilot]

# 1 - If you sent your info to KAL, you are in for a long wait - you have to go thru an agency to be hired

#2 - Is this your first time on this forum? There's a book's worth of info on the hiring process within this site - and not all of it is what you may want to hear..... you have alot of time on type? then you should be safe. You bought your type with no time - good luck.

[moderate]

Hi all,
I intend applying to KAL as PIC A330 on commuting contract and would very much like to get some useful information from those on the fleet to the following;

1. Application DIRECT or through Agency (if so which one?)
2. Apprx Salary
3. How good is the medical cover and does it cover the family?
4. Loss of License cover? For how much?
5. What are the closest and recommended bases in the region? Or is Seoul possible/ too costly?
6. What is the selection process like? Any specifics to be aware of??!
7. How many vacancies does KAL have?

I thank you in advance.

Cheers!!

[gabu1234]

Actually I am looking for reply to the above questions as well.

Thanks

[juzlime]

ok screening coming up for bus drivers nx month.. gud luck..

[juzlime]

any expat a330 fo here? i need some info on KAL ops n life before decide to apply.. anyone?

[swish266]

I would appreciate if someone can PM me a KAL 330 Captain's roster for a CDG/FRA base.
Meaning do you ever get to operate to Europe on the 330?
Thank you so much!
:ok:

[aileronjam]

Here is a list of the cities the A330 currently flies. Obviously this may change at any time based on their needs.

Fukuoka
Kagoshima
Osaka
Sapporo
Beijing
Guangzhou
Kunming
Qingdao
Shanghai
Shenyang
Shenzhen
Tianjin
Ulaan Baatar
Cebu
Chiang Mai
Bali
Hanoi
Ho Chi Minh
Jakarta
Kuala Lumpur
Manila
Mumbai
Phuket
Taipei
Istanbul
Munich
Prague
Vienna
Zurich
Cairo
Brisbane
Melbourne
Nadi (Fiji)
Noumea
Guam

[swish266]

Does it mean you get to operate to Europe more if your base is there?

[aileronjam]

Sorry, I have no idea.

From what I've heard, everyone is based in Seoul.

[wingmaaan]

according to what i was told from rishworth, you can be based anywhere, as long as KAL approaches there twice a week...

[juzlime]

thanks aileronjam.. hope dat wont happen in flight.. juz had idg failure couple of days back.. dats alot of routes.. sounds interesting.. hows the cockpit environment?

[CaptBMB]

I would be attending to an A330 Capt interview, I have over 9500 hrs in the airbus which 4500 as PIC in the 320, when you say Korean way, do they change the manufacter procedures? I know a lot of American Airlines change the way the airbus is designed to fly...is this the case in Korean Air?
Thanks..

[aileronjam]

"thanks aileronjam.. hope dat wont happen in flight.. juz had idg failure couple of days back.. dats alot of routes.. sounds interesting.. hows the cockpit environment? "

I have no idea how the cockpit environment is at Korean Air. I pulled the destinations from their website. It seems they fly to the larger cities like Paris, London, Los Angeles, etc... in the larger aircraft ie: 777, 747. Makes sense to me. The A330 appears to do a lot of the intermediate routes and possibly routes with less of a load factor??? just a guess on my part.

[aileronjam]

"I would be attending to an A330 Capt interview, I have over 9500 hrs in the airbus which 4500 as PIC in the 320, when you say Korean way, do they change the manufacter procedures? I know a lot of American Airlines change the way the airbus is designed to fly...is this the case in Korean Air?
Thanks.. "

From what I've been told, Korean Air follows the Airbus operating procedures. If they have modified the "Airbus SOP", I am not aware of it.

I can tell you that the sim evaluation at the interview is not a "cake-walk". It's essentially a "PC" with no prep time. If you haven't flown the A330, you will notice only slight differences from the 320. It will take you a couple minutes to adjust but after that it's just like a 320 that flies "heavy". If you're current on the 320, I wouldn't get too worried about the sim.

[juzlime]

thanks anyway.. i guess we need to experience it ourselves.. :)

[CaptBMB]

I appreciate your comment, I will post how it goes, any idea of written test??:ok:

[Gypsy]

Can anyone tell me the pay for an expat 737 capt plus any other benefits eg per diems etc. Thank you.

[clrblu22]

First one is training pay next one is line pay.

Captain
Type Training Salary
B-744 $8,900.00 $13,260.00
B-777 $7,900.00 $12,870.00
A-330 $7,400.00 $11,350.00
B-737 $6,400.00 $9,320.00



First Officer
Type Training Salary
B-744 $6,300.00 $8,500.00
B-777$6,300.00 $8,500.00
A-330$4,900.00 $7,300.00
B-737$4,500.00 $6,500.00

[clrblu22]

I would like some info as will if anyone has some......anyone just go through the interview?

[heavan]

Hi there,

You seem to have a wealth of knowledge on what goes on in KAL.
I have recently joined this forum and have sent in my application form through a recruiting agency..IAC.

I was wondering if you would be able to give me the gouge on the interview/sim/medical process. I have read the posts from other members but none listing what type of technical question were asked or what did KAL have you do during the sim eval.

If you could tell me where to look on this forum or if you know what goes on during the interview, please let me know.

Thank you

[showbiz]

KAL B737 Captains are only entitled to 2 days travel.

There was flexibility with regard to this in the past but it is now enforced.

[Geragau]

Well heard from someone passing through the sandpit, KAL has sacked a couple of new B737 skippers; one landed at almost 200kts indicated airspeed, the other continuing to land with windshear warning screaming on short finals. KAL crews must have super high risk and uncertainty tolerance; imagine deadheading on such flights.

[Ace Springbok]

Yep, you need to have a very strong stomach to be paxing or deadheading; some bloke was woken up from his deep slumber in the FC cabin while deadheading to JFK one day not too long ago and summoned to the cockpit. There was utter confusion in the cockpit with barely 20 to 30 mins of fuel left...........JFK, EWR and Philly were closed and crew were so ATC English challenged that they couldn't make head or tail what ATC was advising or instructing them........with such low fuel skipper said nothing. Deadheading crew was totally aghast and in no certain terms demanded the crew declare emergecy which they did after much deliberations; deadheader helped with the ' complicated ' ATC' communications and they were ' safely ' diverted to Andrews Air Force Base. WHEW!
In my previous life with them, deadheading back to LHR was always a dread when we have gales in southern Brittania!

[gengis]

Now before we all go throwing stones in the proverbial glass house, all 3 of the said 737 cases WERE/ARE expat.

This is not the can of worms to be opened at the moment.

Just to be clear, it is not my intent - through this post - to incite any inflammatory opinions for/against the local-expat issue.

[judge.oversteer]

Incident was about 6 years ago and it was KSWF (Stewart Field) they diverted to.
JO

[one for the road]

Gengis

" were/are" ............ Have they been fired ?

[gengis]

To my knowledge, one sacking is for sure. The other two cases are still under review.

I don't feel it appropriate to post specifics on PPRUNE other than that they are fairly significant occurances by any measure. It is all the more disappointing to know that it came from some of "us".

[socal320pilot]

Is the KAL contract the same regardless of which agency you use?

Any opinions about Rishworth vs. the others?

Regards,
SoCal

[gengis]

The contract is essentially the same, although the Net $$$ & insurance coverage (Medical, Accident, Loss of Licence) varies somewhat from agency to agency.

Stick with CCL or GAP Aviation. 2nd tier agencies would be Euro-Pacific & Rishworth. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES go with IAC, Best International USA.

[maui]

I endorse Gengis's comments, but would go further to caution against even talking to the third tier. If they get you an interview they will be your agency.

Choice is only available prior to the application process.

Maui

[RWEDAREYET]

I have a couple of questions for those at KAL? Please PM if you do not want to post on the open forum.

I have seen several posts for jobs from non-rated 330 captains, to non-rated fo positions as well.

As for the non-rated 330 capt, I fit the profile as per Rishworth, except I have not flown the 320 in the past three months. Last flight was August of last year. Currently flying as PIC on a Challenger, pay is great, but schedule has gone down hill, so looking for something else. I have a ton of time on the 320, is there a possibility of accepting me even though I haven't flown the aircraft in the past 3 months.

As for the non-rated fo's, what is the chance for upgrade and if there is a chance of upgrade, what would be the typical time period?

One more question. I live in Atlanta, no wasn't Delta, was USAir. What kind of home time could I expect living in ATL and how do you like working for KAL. I guess that is actually two questions, sorry.

Thanks in advance for anyone who could give me a little info.

Cheers

[ASkipper]

Guys,

any more info avail regarding how many BusDrivers are sought by KAL?

Also, do applicants have an "honest" chance to get the invitation to
the interview, sim, screening, ... which just fulfill th emin requirements?

What is an average salary when on line? (incl. overtime etc.)
( ... or 11000 something flatrate?)

Thanks!
Rgds:cool:

[Pin Head]

So where is the cheapest place to do a B744 rating. I have a UK JAR and Canadian and FAA licence?

Regards

Pin

[Artisan]

Hi I'm looking at 737 Captain slots.

I know that the official base is Seoul. Am I correct in stating that the available 'Bases'/ Day off destinations are;

LHR / CDG / FRA / AKL / SYD / BNE / LAX / YYZ YVR /JFK / SFO / ORD / ATL / HKG / KUL / BKK ?

Do you have to have residency for your nominated base? i.e. if you don't have the right to live and work in France, could you still nominate CDG? It seems to me that you would only be there for a maximum of 11 days per month, so you could come and go on a tourist visa?

Can the 'Base' be changed on a regular basis, eg month by month?

Thanks in advance.

[canadansk]

Good question on basings! Could a Canadian use a European base? I was told that one has a resident visa in Korea, so in theory one could base anywhere legally?

Canadansk

[THRidle]

Thats correct, providing you have "Right of abode" in the country you choose.

[zlin77]

Normally come and go from your nominated base as "extra crew" ie. On the G.D. and in uniform, so in effect you enter and leave like any other crew on a layover.

[highflyer321757]

Pin Head: I assume you have been offered a NTR job? If so, would you like to share your screening experience with us? Otherwise, anybody else with some info?

I was called only a few days ago for the screening 20-24 July as NTR F/O on the B777. Anyone else going? I managed to arrange all required paperwork within 2 days. From the info package given by my agent it seems that the interview only lasts 20 minutes and that they are after enthusiasm about joining and career so far, cant have many technical questions in 20 min I guess. According to the info the sim lasts 2 hours!

Once again, any info on the screening is appreciated!

PS: don't forget your sneakers for the treadmill stress test or should I say deathmill...

[kk pilot]

I wouldn't worry so much about the interview - but you better fly that sim like your job offer completely depends on it......because it does

[tcasguy]

Zlin77

Just to clarify, do you tend to operate or DH more from your "base", or is that different among the bases? This is assuming your type of aircraft serves your home base.

Thanks for the input.

Fly Safe,

t guy

[stealthone]

Highflyer,

What type are you on at the moment?
Do you mind disclosing your total hours and experience level.

[4PW's]

28 days off work due sickness or illness and you're fired.

Stick that in your calculator and see what comes out.

[varigflier]

For those of you flying the line, how is the CRM in the cockpit between the expats and the Korean pilots? Is it a good atmosphere?

VF

[inderaputra]

I heard that except for a very few " enlightened " koreans, the atmosphere is mostly tense with nary a word or two for long long sector period. Conversation is sometimes non existent and most of the time if a conversation goes on, it ended up without anyone none the wiser as most of the Koreans have poor conversational English. Having said that, there are a few western trained Korean gentlemen who speaks better English than the expat Latinos and aussie with their dreadful drawl.:ok:

[highflyer321757]

Stealthone,

TT 3000+ of which 2000+ commercial jets as A321, B757 & B767, nothing major compared to many others but enough for the screening at least!

In case you have applied, be patient and good luck!

[highflyer321757]

What about the CRM between Flight Deck Crew and I assume all S-Korean Cabin Crew? any conversation or interaction of any kind there?

[stealthone]

Highflyer,

Thanks mate and good luck with your interview.
I applied two weeks ago, 4000+ jet time.
Have you selected your TRTO?

[varigflier]

With an atmosphere like that I assume that is one of the reasons why the number of expat F/Os is low.:(

[highflyer321757]

varigflier,

In case you are referring to my question about the CRM between pilots and cabin crew with your comment on atmosphere , than I am not sure what you are getting at. In my previous airline the annual CRM classes were held mixed with cc since the CRM with them (that kind of interaction) was considered equally important for which I am in favour. We can all go flying in a tube for hours and do our jobs but it is the interaction among the crew which attributes to a pleasant flight as well.

In case you were not referring to my question, perhaps you would like to explain?

About your comment on the low amount of expat F/O's, perhaps that has more to do with the fact that they are not on anyone''s seniority list and that they do not have the opportunity to upgrade to Command...what do you think?

[highflyer321757]

varigflier,

I see now that you must have referred to the reply from Inderaputra about the atmosphere...:O

I still believe that the lack of seniority is more of a factor for the expat F/O's, anybody would like to comment on that?

[stealthone]

Well, why would people with hours on a B777 leave their companies to join KAL? I'd say not many. Nobody wants to stay an FO forever.

Does anybody know why they need pilots with diplomas? If they do not provide upgrades for expats then there is no reason to have such a requirement. Apparently, 75% of guys can not apply because they do not have any qualifications. It's good for us who have it, less competition
I guess...

[varigflier]

Highflyer,

I was refering to Inderaputra's reply and I agree with you 100%. Interaction with cc is also a big part of a pleasant flight.
Not having a chance for upgrade must stop alot of people from applying I would imagine.

VF

[blues deville]

I was interviewed in March and received a job offer in April as a NTR CA777 with a course date later this year. Are they now interviewing/hiring expat NTR FOs as well?

For anyone interested, be ready for a full day in their medical center (8 hrs) running from room to room getting tested from top to bottom, do well in the sim (attitude is the key) and the interview that follows is just as formality.

BD

[lospilotos]

Can someone explain the background for the requirement of a college diploma which seems to be the norm when hiring at KAL as a FO according to the recruitment agencies. I wouldn´t expect to see that many FOs with college diplomas around....

[maui]

lospilotos

When KAL ran the cadet scheme, all graduates had a degree. A lot from IT some from Med Sciences, Engineers, you name it.

The other intake stream was from the ROKAF and of course they are all so superior they don't need a degree to impress anyone!

Maui

[highflyer321757]

To everybody travelling to Korea at some point for the screening:

Check the flight itinerary given by your agent and make sure it mentions the code HK1 and not HL1! HK is a confirmed seat and HL is standby.

Probably not so much of an issue on a direct flight to ICN but when you depart from an airport which has no direct flights (as AMS-MAD-ICN in my case) KAL will simply put you on standby in case the flight to MAD is fully booked!

I remember reading a previous post about this but another code was given then. Because of that I did double check with my agent and they informed me that all seats were all confirmed even though this was not the case.

There I was at the airport fully prepared and ready to go...I never left and no comment from KAL or my agent other than "you will be too late for the screening"! I even offered to catch a flight to LHR since they depart from there every day so I would still make it on time but there was no interest :mad:

So, avoid indirect flights and for all those who make it to ICN, best of luck! :ok:

[wall-e]

Experience:
NON TYPE RATED FIRST OFFICER must have: 1000+ FO hours on B744/757/767/737NG, 2000+ commercial jet hours, Flown on B744/757/767/737NG within 3 months, Under 45 years of age at date of screening, College diploma is minimum requirement *Note: Must be willing to arrange and pay for your own B777 FO type rating if successful at a screening, before starting on contract with KAL. We can help with the arrangements. However, you will need to make payment directly to your chosen sim centre.

[PappyJ]

How's the environment between the local and expat crews? Cordial, Cohesive or Combatant?

[tcasguy]

Just to bump this thread to the top and still looking for any information from recent interview experience. Your updates are appreciated.:rolleyes:

Retired (again...)

[Left Coaster]

1234...
any chance you can show where that info came from? Cheers...

[littlejet]

Does that mean that people who got their starting date, or already in training and who quit their jobs for this Airline/Agency are know being sent home and became jobless...? Nice job, good for reputation and best of luck finding experienced pilots in the future. I hope you will have fun crewing your planes with 200hrs MPL holders. Insurance companies would love this.

[NOVMO]

Unfortunately for pilots, there are a lot of experienced pilots looking for a job.

[littlejet]

And for how long?
How many are retiring a year?
How many early retiring?
How many are taking pilot courses these days?
Will you pay 30K+ for a license which will maybe qualify you for nothing but an underpaid insecure job at regionals hoping that after 10 yrs flying you might have a chance landing a normal pilot job.
How many airlines are still holding cadet-pilot programs?
How many pilots at the screenings are really jobless?
If you take a closer look 80% are doing the screening "just in case".
So will one quit his job even if he feels bad there and jump two continents to work for the airline which runs the same bad story.
Don't think so.
Just because it is a pilot surplus, that does not mean they should be treated like trash.
What goes around comes around.

[Captain Oryx]

Little Jet,

My try in answering your questions:

1) When donkeys fly!

2) Not enough.

3) See answer to #2.

4) Enough to sustain the pilot training schools.

5) I won't, but enough people do to keep the programs running.

6) The ones that choose to fund their programs. The waiting lists for those programs are quite lengthy.

7) Doesn't matter, most are willing to sever ties with their current employer to take the job. if offered.

8) Interesting number, "just in case" could be the inevitable failure of their current employer. Or, "just in case" could be "just in case" they are offered a position.

9) You may not think so, but the KAL hiring statistics would prove you wrong.;)

Pilots always have, and always will, climb over each other's backs to improve their lot in life. That is the nature of the industry. Especially the industry of the contract pilot.:ok:

[littlejet]

All above, let's just wait and see.
My opinion is that either the whole aviation industry will just die and there will be few strong gov't subsidized nationals which will fly with severely reduced capacity like in the past, or all those ordered aircraft will have to have somebody flying it. Maybe donkeys.

As for KAL, how come that KAL has been looking for pilots all this time if they have so many candidates?
Why did they recently open for non-type rated?

L.

[Pin Head]

Back to the screening, does anyone about what to expect in the sim for a non-type rated on the B744? They do not give much away apart from asking to bring your own QRH and normal checklist?

What are they assessing?

Pin

[B737NG]

Good question, does that not tell you something???

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[FlyingCroc]

I receive almost daily job offers from Korean from Risworth. Are these pilots now in training. Is only the Captain's training stopped or also the FO's? Is it worth applying under the current conditions? Thanks.

[54fighting]

Pappy J to answer your question, a recent example.

Upon entering dispatch recently a couple of korean union pilots were
handing out paperwork to only korean f/os. Tried to get one but told
wasn't for me. Another friend got a hold of one, with the aid of sticky
fingers. Had korean girlfriend translate. Paperwork stated to report any
and all instances, where the foreign captain does not do everything by
the book. And not even in the book. Report everything.

Doesn't state to report captains, but quite distinctly. FOREIGN CAPTAINS.

Hope that answers your question. Nice place huh ??

[54fighting]

Sorry to hear the same down-trodden story.

but.........this is where your piece of ****, airline dangles.
Good luck, pickin' up the piececs.

[hipe1]

Hi guys! Recently lost my job and I've seen the add for KAL F/O 737...anyway my question is, If anyone knows ,if there is any chance to cancel the contract in case something would go wrong back home..I mean 5 years is a looong time :rolleyes:
Btw, great topic, gained a lot of usefull info :D

[readme]

hi guys.I am almost new here, and I have been reading all kal posts.
I am looking for new info regarding the FO kal selection on B737.
I will appreciate any new info, tip, detail, and especially what to expect, how to prepare etc...:uhoh:
looking forward to it!
thank u all

[fly now]

----korean info to share??+

[lowvaeater]

hipe1,

From what an agent have told me, 5 year contract means that you have to stick with one agent during the 5 year period. However, as far as your deal with KAL, you are free to leave after 1 year of service with prior notice (3months).

[kulchyolp]

Hoping to Join KAL on A330. Can anyone tell me if one can commute from Europe? Start your months work in AMS or MAD for example?
Also an insight into the average working month would be appreciated.

[Jetavia]

I am also interested in info on the screenings. Got call today I am going for screening 7-11 december for B737NG F/O position with Korean. For those wondering about my level of experience I have just short of 2200h TT, 1600h B737.

[aw737]

your fine.

[flamingmoe]

Just noticed on the direct personnel site, that they are accepting applications from non-rated captains, with command experience on 777/767/757/737NG.

Is this accurate?? I didnt think they would need to look that hard for qualified 747 guys?

Where do I sign up!

[EY763ER]

Could someone shed some light for me on my questions please?

Re: B777 F/o

1- I am currently B767 type rated with much time on type and a JAA licence. Would Korean accept my B777 type rating if it was with reduced sim time due to my B767 experience? or would they want me to complete the full type rating on the B777?

2- As a F/o on the B777, how many hours would i be flying during my one month on (minus the 9 days off)?

3- What destinations can i expect for the B777 and how much layover time on average?

Thanks in advance for your advice and comments!!

[Jefferson Airplane]

Re: B777 F/o

1- I am currently B767 type rated with much time on type and a JAA licence. Would Korean accept my B777 type rating if it was with reduced sim time due to my B767 experience? or would they want me to complete the full type rating on the B777?

2- As a F/o on the B777, how many hours would i be flying during my one month on (minus the 9 days off)?

3- What destinations can i expect for the B777 and how much layover time on average?

Thanks in advance for your advice and comments!!

EY763,

I have command on the B777 in KAL and herewith the answers to your questions:

1. As long as you have a valid B777 type rating done through an approved institution, KAL will accept this. Although they advertise for 'Non Type Rated' pilots, this is not quite true. One has to join WITH a type rating but no experience on type is considered 'non type rated.'

2. During your two and a half week duty cycle, expect to fly on average 70-80 hours although it can be as little as 60-70 hours

3. The B777 is primarily used to the USA (east and west coasts), Australasia, SE Asia (SIN, BKK, SGN, MNL), Europe (MAD, AMS, PRG, VIE) and turnaround trips to China and Japan.
a) US layovers usually 48 hrs (some 24 hrs and very occasionally 72 hrs)
b) Australasia usually 48 hrs
c) SE Asia 24 hrs
d) Europe usually 48 hrs

I hope this helps.

J Airplane.

[kimchiman]

I am currently working at a regional in the US and will be furloughed in the next few months. I am a korean-american, second generation, and was wondering if there's any opportunities in korea with korean air. Is the only viable way to get hired with korean airlines is through a contract company? Would appreciate some info.

[blee256]

check your PMs, kimchi

[woldo]

Hi Seaman,

I´m pretty sure it´s not a matter of "english speaking", it´s more a matter of having experience with Asia and accepting their way of seeing the things. You must embrace their rules and procedures and you´ll be fine!
Many Expats pilots from KAL can confirm this, some have different experience.
All the best :ok:

[cumulustratus]

Hi all!

I´ve been offered the position of B737 F/O with KAL and I am leaning towards accepting. I´m today with a large european carrier that everybody loves to hate, and I´d like to try something different since I´m still young enough to do it without risking too much.

Since I might end up commuting mostly to a city that is not part of the KAL pax ops network, I´d like to ask if anyone knows if I could get ID tickets through KAL to fly to my city from one of the KAL bases with LH, BA etc?

I´d also like some info from some of the B737 crew about atmosphere on layovers. Crew interaction? Go together for dinners etc. Or Korean CPT withdrawing immediately to his room and rest of crew spending night watching Korean TV?

For all who are thinking about applying:

The recruitment process went just as the agency and previous posters have adviced. No surprises. Our instructor even started the sim and left us alone to do some circuits on the rwy just to get a feel of the sim and to relax. He also let us do all procedures according to our present SOPs. Amazing! Nothing to advanced. Split flap landing, visual single engine, V1 cuts etc.

Thanks

CS

[cf680c2b]

Like you said you are a younger guy. So, I as an older guy, will dispense some valuable advise. If you listen carefully, you may be able to avert any major mistakes in your career hence taking full advantage of your youth.

you are a very lucky to have a job during these times. Now before you give up that job for another, do genuine research. Genuine research includes all the basics such as airline profile, profitablility, sustainability, your T&C, etc. But the most important part of genuine research is to take that vision you have in your mind about your future airline and trow it in the trash. I'm talking about things like seeing yourself in a heavy jet in a couple of years, becoming a captain, being with cute Asian FAs and such. It is a mirage, set up by yourself to fool yourself.

Read these forums for additional information. Although 90% of it is useless, there is that 10% that will answer most of your question. Those that come from guys who actually work there. Make a distinction between the two and read carefully.

Move with caution. Good Luck.:ok:

ps - more forum discussions on the subject here: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/foreign/39839-korean-airlines.html

[typhoonpilot]

You are very kind CF. I would have worded it differently. The only time one should join a dead end position, such as KAL's F.O. program is when they are out of work or have some other over-riding reason to accept a dead end position without opportunity for advancement. To leave a steady job at what might be a good carrier is just stupid. If a leave of absence is possible and it's just to have an adventure in Asia for short while, then disregard.


TP

[millerscourt]

cumulus

Don't even consider KAL as F/O on a B737 as there is no career structure there for the likes of you so in a few years time you will have to move on having burnt your bridges back home, still a F/O and then staying as an expat which as an F/O is difficult. After a few years you will probably end up applying for the likes of EK or EY and your career has effectively gone backwards as you now start at the bottom of another airline. Only consider those that have some kind of upgrade policy.

I have night stopped in Seoul many times. cold and snowy in winter, hot and sticky in Summer. Good bar/music downstairs at The Hyatt JJ's Itaewon. Seoul Pub. Hilton. I would guess the B737 is not the best fleet to be on either.

Stay with the airline in Europe everbody loves to hate is my advice.

I very much doubt if you will get any social intercourse on night stops. Maybe as a young expat F/O you will be a novelty to some!

[cumulustratus]

Thanks everybody for helpful advice.

Guess I'll end up staying in good old Europe this time!

Happy new year to all!

[rambus]

Does anybody have any information on the medical...specifically the vision requirements at Korean.
My vision is not the greatest...20/100 correctible to 20/25 in the right eye, 20/60 correctible to 20/20 in the left...both eyes 20/20. That's good enough here in Canada but I'm not sure about Korean.

Looking at the 737NG Captain position...any info would be appreciated!

Thanks,

[woldo]

hi rambus,
I´ve done the screening last year. they are very restrictive on the medical, but if your values are in limit you better bring a confirmation of a aviation medical doctor, and - or what can happen is that you are requested to send a confirmation of such a doctor after your screening if the rest was ok!!
All the best and good luck!!! :ok:

[blueoreas]

For oversea Koreans with 1000 hours+, apply through ???? ::: ???? (http://recruit.koreanair.co.kr/) for permanent job :ok:

[kulchyolp]

J. Airplane. I meant to say............... Your posting on the 777 was very enlightening. Could you provide similar information for the A330. Or do you know of someone who might be kind enough to do same. Thanks.

[gex]

Hello. Any chance captains flying 737 NG get an upgrade to 767, 777 A330?
Is that commom?
tks

[gex]

Hello. I am thinking to apply for KAL 737NG. could someone get me the address of CCL, please? tks

[Capt Chambo]

How many pilots do KAL have and how many of them are expats?
Approximately 2200 in total, of which approximately 400 are foreigners.

[Established]

CCL - Korean Air Recruitment Details (http://www.kal-ccl.com)

[B737NG]

It was a common practice that the Captains used to travel in First and the F/O´s travel in Business Class whilst commute. The Contract stated it is Economy Class on the way home and subject to availability Business Class. On the way after the days off back to Seoul it is Business Class. What KAL does now is "enforce" the contract, hopefully in all other contents as well. Because there are clauses ignored in the past and not enforced at all because that would be a advantage for the Contractee, Agencies do not support Pilots after placement because if they would try they would jeopardize the "climate" between KAL and themselves. If a Agent provides 50 or even 80 Pilots to KAL he has the fear of being ignored by the next selection. Despite the statement, the fluctuation is too high over the past years. Too many are leaving earlier then the 5 year term, think about it when you read the shiny advertisments about the best commuting system, excellent ammenities and so on. It dresses the window and lures the desire that the grass is greener on the other side until you look at it from a diffrent angle, you then realise that the grass was greener where you were.

Some of my sources tell me that even now whilst on duty the real deadhead is applied as well to Business only, your Korean Colleague is sleeping in First, you are trying to close a eye in Business. Fair and equal treatment....?!

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[faaatp]

(a) KAL shall provide the F/O when deadheading to duty or rest with a guaranteed seat in economy class. When deadheading to duty, the F/O can be assigned a seat in business class, on a seat available basis.

warm off the print;)

[Priority Left]

Hi. I can't seem to find much info on the A330 fleet here. Anyone here on that fleet? I'm considering the A330 NTR route, but if IOE is anything like it sounds like on the 777, it's possible I could be stuck with a 330 type without any significant time on type to find another job somewhere if they don't take to me. I'm a current A320 CA btw, but my airline is going downhill fast. So basically, if anyone can chime in, what's life like on the 330?

[gengis]

faaatp, we're talking about the Capt T&C, not F/O.

;)

[WallyBallbearing]

That was a snotty little remark. FO/Captain why should it matter? People should know that there are about a dozen different contracts, none of which are followed.

When FO's lost Free Tickets, A day off (there are 8 days off boys and girls, not 9 (Actually 6 hard, 3 soft) as it says in the contract, Captains get 9, FO's travel on there last day off sometimes in ECONOMY), limited Zeds ect, ect. Nobody gave a flying...

So now, what's the point with the seats for Captains? There is none. First Class is not guaranteed for Captains when traveling to home leave. Be glad you still get paid the same and are not buying your last day off so you can have the same home leave as it says in the contract.

737NG is 100% right about this place. Nothing that is written on paper means anything to these guys. The Agencies will not back any contract if Korean changes it. Window dressing, exactly.

I do like the commercials however.

[gengis]

That was a snotty little remark. FO/Captain why should it matter?

Well Wally, when you sign for the aircraft, then you'll have a mouth to talk. Until then, you are flying on OUR licence.

Selecting the Gear Lever UP or DOWN.

Try giving the F/Os a better deal than the Capts in UPS/FEDEX/UNITED or whoever else you wanna quote, and then we can talk

[Captain Kimchi]

Anyone interested in joining Korean Air should think twice! Your contract is not worth the paper it's written on and terms and conditions are constantly being changed!

Now the Korean Government has changed the tax rates and this will effect all expat pilots with Korean Air.

[WallyBallbearing]

Gengis:

You might want to sit down with the CASA regulations for a little while and see how and to whom penalties are dealt out while flying on "Your" license. You get back to me on that.

"Gear up, Gear down"? Really? Heading back to the stone age of CRM? Nice. There's a bunch of balled up Aluminum to prove that crew concept. Was that how you address that question type in your job interview? I doubt it.

And....FO's don't get a voice when their contracts been run over by a truck but Captains need to be heard? Or is the FO's "Don't have a Voice" thing just when your flying.

FEDEX? UPS? What are you talking about now? Your saying FO's at Korean have a better deal than Captains at UPS and FEDEX? What?

:rolleyes:

[411A]

"Gear up, Gear down"? Really? Heading back to the stone age of CRM? Nice.

I always thought so...works for me.
Of course, that's when I fly the airplane...as I give away most of the sectors now, anyway, the First Officer has little to complain about.

[gengis]

Wally: irrelevant. What is being discussed here is the Capt contract - not the F/O contract - for which you, in post 186 described "snotty".

As to flying on our licence, the fine/penalties come don't come to you. Unless you imagined so.

As for stone aged crm, it gets dished out only on whoever so has it coming. The vast majority of F/Os who fly with me - locals & expats alike - don't have any such issues. Perhaps it's only behind the cloak of PPRUNE anonymity that a 'decent' F/O starts spewing out diatribes.... that illicits a necessary response.

End of matter.

[Wador]

If you don't have time on type I wouldn't recomend it, they are mean and racist, they don't want you here.
And you would not get ever a chance to upgrade.
the failure rate is more than half.
:=

[etops777]

If you don't have time on type I wouldn't recomend it, they are mean and racist, they don't want you here.


Does the people or the government of UK or anywhere else allow to recruit any expat pilots?? I don't think so. PERIOD.

So by Korean not giving any upgrade to expat FOs it is very logical and it makes sense. Unless UK, AUS or North American countries would be giving the same opportunities to any expats a chance first without being an EU national or a Green card Holder than there's no arguments.

[411A]

Does the people or the government of UK or anywhere else allow to recruit any expat pilots?? I don't think so. PERIOD.

So by Korean not giving any upgrade to expat FOs it is very logical and it makes sense.

Well said.
Expats are hired because the airline does not have enough national pilots.
Many younger expats, new to the game, will just have to learn the hard way that, when enough national pilots are available, their job goes away and/or any upgrade possibility goes up in smoke.
I would ask...why would anyone think it to be otherwise?

[jinglied]

etops777,

Some countries do pretty much that, and go one step further. I can only speak for Canada but you can move there as a non-citizen (like an expat), work for a non-Canadian company (example KAL) for three years and then be eligible for canadian citizenship. I.E. you get the passport.

411A:

Regarding your statement about expats at Korean. The prime reason for KAL hiring expats is insuranced/safety based due their past history. They have little choice in the matter. I believe the requirement is somewhere about 20%, but I'm not certain on that. If they didn't hire the expat fliers, they would not be operating internationally today.

Jinglie'd

[etops777]

Will Air Canada or any US airlines hire anyone without first being a green card holder right? I am very sure that you need first to be a Permanent residence before you can even apply to those airlines. Simple....so no expat can be hired onto these airlines...

[Kalbi]

ETOPS: Will Air Canada or any US airlines hire anyone without first being a green card holder right? I am very sure that you need first to be a Permanent residence before you can even apply to those airlines. Simple....so no expat can be hired onto these airlines...

Yes this is correct. However, I think what Jinglied was trying to say is a little different. He was talking about residing there (Canada) while being gainfully employed by a foreign company. That's a different scenario altogether. Back to your question, practically speaking if one were a highly experienced pilot - by "highly experienced" I am referring to meeting wide-body DEC requirements for a major Asian flag carrier - it would not really be in your favor financially to try to go to Air Canada or any US airline. Because no matter your flying experience, you'd be going in at the bottom of the pile and start building your seniority from there. By the time you get back up to where you were before, you'd be so far behind the curve you may as well be starting your own carpentry business on the sideline to make up the difference. Only if you had age very much on your side would this be a viable option.

[X-BleedOpen]

Guys..

are this people very strict on the requirements? I mean, I have all the min reqs for the A330 Non Type Rated position, excepting the 2 years university college diploma as they want... I have my normal high school diploma. Now, would they ever consider my application at all?

1300 total 1010 on type (A320), CAT II & III, ICAO English Level 6.

[WallyBallbearing]

Gengis:

What was being discussed was Korean Air..Period.

You want to say who you really are on this forum? I will happily do the same.

I have nothing but a great rep with Korean. Can't say the say for you (ya, I know who you are).

You didn't bother to pick up the CASA regs huh? Where you out practicing your signature?

If you bothered to look it says when penalties are dealt, it goes to flight crew, no, not Captain, Fo..all flight crew. So you may get it out of the barn, but you don't take it anywhere with out me sweetheart, and we all pay for mistakes. Also, check you aircraft operation requirements in the casa regs. You guys aren't even right seat qualified? You cant do the job. Not in Casas eyes. So who operates on whose license? Last time I looked it was a 2 crew airplane.

I would be so happy to meet you and discuss this in person.

[WallyBallbearing]

Gengis:

Also. you said: other fo's dont have issues? Are you kidding?

Listen here bro: You have no idea what your talking about, at all.

Our contract has been blown to smithereens. there were 10 fo's on my starting class 4 remain. There are numerous firings monthly of both captains and FO's, for nothing. there is over 60% of the fo's hired in the last 3 years, quit or fired. The experiment failed.

If any one is blowing you its because they need the job and are scared that your going to rat them out to company if they complain (which you will). Which they should not because, your nobody. But they don't know that.

My advise to you Captain: Quit trying to be "The man", because, like many before you. You don't realize your nobody in Korean Air culture. You will become a statistic like many more before you. On this forum you appear to be the "go to" but your not. You are a charlatan.

BTW I'm still very open to true identities on this forum, you want to go together?

[gengis]

Wally, my my.... getting personal now.


Fact: Your post #186 in response to mine #185, which stated the fact to faaatp - who had posted a clause in his contract - that the discussion up to that point was about the Capt's travel, not the FOs. Do you dispute this?

Fact: Who's signature is it that is on the Flight Plan - yours or the guy's in the left?

Fact: Who's signature is it that is on the Flight & Maint Log - yours or the guy's in the left?

Fact: Does the guy in the left fly when you say so, or do you fly whenever/wherever he says so? And when he doesn't say so, you select the gear & flaps. Do you dispute this? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Fact: Nobody is trying to be "the Man". The discussion up to #184 WAS about travelling changes?


Now tell me, which of the above do you deny? Or perhaps it is different in Emirates.


PS - my reference about F/Os not having issues was not directed at the F/O contract. It was directed at how we get along in-flight.

PS - Identities have no bearing in the discussion. It remains that it is about KAL contract and T&C. All your pontificating does not alter that.

[WallyBallbearing]

Personal Works. I wonder Gengis, would you line up a group of expat FO's and mouth off about "Gear up, Gear down" to them? I highly doubt it. Talk about anonymity some more.

I'm not even going to go into CASA differences and penalties from FAA or JAA, who's responsible. You should know this stuff 1# and 2# why don't you justify that signature and know what your talking about before you make you little lists of so called "facts".

You remember the little blue book you studied for you Korean ATPL? Go get it and tell me where its says PIC or Captain. It states FLIGHT CREW. Your confusing the FOM and CASA rules.

In any case. With regards to Captains and or FO's contracts:

Until the contractors are taken to task on the issue of contract violation nothing will happen.

Korean is losing a lot of Pilots because of it.

There is a massive about of animosity towards expats at Korean Air and (I think) the union as well as the military Pilots, put a lot of pressure on Management , the Government, ect. to erode what benefits are in place for Expats now. I guess they want a better deal and because they can't get it, there messing with us. When Korean takes benefits away they don't have to worry about Pilots much because:

1. You will never go to the office to find anyone to talk to about it, plus everyone was told not to years ago (see getting canned).

2. The Expat Pilot relations guy can and will.... do nothing.

3. You contract is with the Agency not Korean Air :ugh:

[gengis]

Let the record show that you have not answered the questions in #202.

On this point: Until the contractors are taken to task on the issue of contract violation nothing will happen.

Korean is losing a lot of Pilots because of it.

There is a massive about of animosity towards expats at Korean Air and (I think) the union as well as the military Pilots, put a lot of pressure on Management , the Government, ect. to erode what benefits are in place for Expats now. I guess they want a better deal and because they can't get it, there messing with us. When Korean takes benefits away they don't have to worry about Pilots much because:

1. You will never go to the office to find anyone to talk to about it, plus everyone was told not to years ago (see getting canned).

2. The Expat Pilot relations guy can and will.... do nothing.

3. You contract is with the Agency not Korean Air


We can agree here.

[X-BleedOpen]

Gengis and Wally,

as I see you are very informed, do you have any answer for my questions a few posts ago regarding the 2 years university degree?

Thanks in advance.

Kind Regards.

[faaatp]

Ola Glapira,
Yes, KAL requires a min. of 2 year degree for FO's....maybe to compensate for mongolians like "Genghis-Khan".
Remember to smile everybody and safe trips.

[La Coneja]

Checking terms and conditions, seems Rishworth T&C are better.

Please any good or bad opinion?

[PROBEUSMC]

I work for Rishworth now at another airline (Vietnam Airlines). This is my first contract job. Rishworth has a horrible rep, and have since they have been in business, through a couple of different owners.

They just cut our pay here at Vietnam Airlines. Not the airline. Rishworth. Real scumbags. Parc is a better company, as is DPI. Not perfect, but better than the scum at Rishworth.

[doo]

what did rishworth cut it too, please

[Count von Altibar]

You're always out on a limb with this type of work, it just depends how strong the limb is! I've always heard good stories about Parc aviation. I guess if you work at Korean there'll always be a certain amount of nationals who are resentful. Probably best to get on with it and keep your head down, not always easy given the injustices that take place.

[Chuck Canuck]

KAL will be going the way of EK; T & Cs will deteriorate as hordes of adventurers who abandon camp in the sandpit march into the pastures on the Korean peninsula. The management is waiting to recruit more expats as the greenback drop; once they have the numbers, they will tighten the screws.

[sundownbettertakecar]

Alas, too true.....now we have cds given to study on our OWN time, on line courses to be done on our OWN time, all kinds of online tests, etc. EXACTLY like EK; mind you...KAL is turning into an EK clone! No thanks to kermit, sigh:ugh::ugh::{:{

[haejangkuk]

Got to agree; when the ex EK pilots turned up at our shores, the management started to get pilots to do all kinds of courses on line on our own off days. They are bring all their rubbish practices and delivering them to our gleeful management who wants to learn all the dirty tricks of the trade to screw our pilots.:{

[Marsellus]

Im just looking around for maybe something else.
But reading the forum over Middle east, Asia makes me shiver!

Whats up with this your not even qualified in the right seat???
You cant fly as a first-officer?

[FLYJET123]

Hi,

I am considering applying through rishworth for B777 NTR Scheme. I have 2500 hrs cpt B757 time. Is there much of a chance for me? Can you give me details of contract and life there?

Thanks

[blues deville]

Hi Flyjet123:

Lately Korean has been hiring NTR 777 pilots with a training/checking background. Not sure why but this has been the trend in recent months. There is also increased interest from many qualified EK pilots so the 777 slots are being filled for the monthly courses with no NTRs.

Training program is three months long in Seoul. Sixty hours of line training (OE) for NTRs is intense but once you are signed out its probably the best commuting job with good working conditions flying defect free aircraft.

Apply and see what happens......good luck!

bd :cool:

[cpt777]

Flyjet,
Your chances are good. Just give it a go. As mentioned, intense and demanding course. But coming from 75/76 onto 777, no big sweat.
Read through the posts by some of the folks here. I'm sure you know which ones, they are of valuable help to your pursue.
Best of luck.

[Liftdumper]

Korean requirements for the A330 non type rated contract are 2000+ PIC and 1500+ 320/340.

Now the real question is which amount of hours makes one competitive for the job.

Anyone have an idea?

LD

[B737NG]

Hello All,

As LD asked how many hours.... the minimum and above. There is no sense to choose the highest hours of the stack... It is by luck only. All suitable candidates are in one stack and then a Administrator decides who will be invited for a Interview. Then the selection starts. Medical for Astronauts, SIM-Check straight forward and a Interview about 30 min. That´s it. After two weeks you know what the result is. Good luck what follows.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[FLYJET123]

Cpt 777 and blues deville

Thanks very much for info. What would you suggest that I prepare for for interview? what is asked/done?

[KAL_332]

Gents just about to start with KAL, some info and help about the air law exam is much appreciated. Does anybody have the updated questionare for the air law exam please? Feel free to pm me. Thanx for help folks.

[max gw]

Hi guys !!!!!!!
I'm considering to apply to A330 NTR, I have 5000 hrs as PIC on the 320, as f/o 6000(737/B767/A340) TT 11000. Before I apply I need some feedback from a A330 Captain actually flying whith Korean.
I have a lot of questions about the training,line checks and ground training.I f any of you can help me,pls send me a PM,any info is appreciated,
Thanks a lot for your help!!!!!!

[cpt777]

FLYJET123
Don't worry too much about any specific questions. Just go with your existing experience and knowledge from you line experience. They are very reasonable in their questioning, I can attest to that. If you're not sure about the answers, just say so and tell them that you'll come back to them with the answers. They basically just wanna make sure that you're truly a widebody experienced skipper. Based on what I recall, I seriously think it's not worth losing sleep over with.
Most importantly though, I think, is to get plenty of rest when you get there. Plan your journey well, the pax loads are quite high nowadays. With JAL cutting down their routes, just watch out for the USA-ICN sectors as many pax will consider KAL as a viable alternative to their travel plans to Japan via ICN.
And don't forget the need for you to start some serious regime of exercises to keep yourself fit. The folks on this forum are not joking when they said it's NASA medical standard. I have done quite a few different types, this is by far the most thorough and hardest. Most chaps will have some issues, very few get 100 clean pass at first round.
All the best once again.

[cpt777]

FLYJET123
Just realized that you're from UK, so the load factor issue may not hit you as bad. Do plan carefully your journey still for plenty of rest arriving into ICN.
Cheers.

[c560xl]

Hi every one,

I am wondering if any body has been through the interview process with Korean Air.
I would appreciate any info about the interview , written test etc etc.

Looking forwrd to hear soon from an Angel.

Thanks in Advance.:ok::D

[max gw]

KAL332,
It seems you're on the 330 fleet,can you give some info about the screening process and sim,what about the enviroment on the A330???
Thanks alot for your help!

[YV757]

Hi Folks!

I've just submitted my application with Rishworth for a NTR 777 F/O. As C560, I'm also looking for information regarding the screening process. And the job in general. Rostering, working environment, etc. Is it true that no expats are allowed to fly together? Do they really give you the 9-11 days off. Or there's a catch?

Thanks for your help! :ok:

[FLYJET123]

I am extremely gratefull for your advice. I think the time zone will be an issue for me coming from 12 hrs west to east. However I can not see anyway of avoiding it unless I arrive weeks earlier and I can not do that. Is the sim check on a B777? Do you know which series? What do they prefer single men without familiy ties or married with familiy, do you know?

Thanks for advice.

[cpt777]

FLYJET123
You're most welcome. I'm sure you know what to do to maximize the rest when you arrive into ICN.
Since you're NTR, it can be any SIM which is available for the day. No point preparing yourself in the technical aspects. If you're unfortunate to get the old airbus SIM (which is literally impossible to fly, according to feedback before), the SIM instructor just wanna see how well you handle the whole thing all together. Just take it one thing at a time, and remember, BE SAFE and never push the limits.
I have no idea whether or not they actually do have any preference on size of family of applicants. The way I see it, not at all. With all the highly qualified chaps coming from all over, I have the perception that they're just focusing on getting the good ones (hope you don't mind some self flattering here) who're willing to learn to adapt and stay for longer term. A very minority of the nasty guys who thought they could fool the interviewers by putting up a great show, my take is, they should have saved the effort and time since the line training and flying part will eventually sort them out and they either didn't make it during training, or have their contracts not renewed consequently.
Hope this helps, the rest of reading, do a quick search and plenty of good postings by many others and their advice is still sound and worth taking note of.

[ImbracableCrunk]

"YV757

Is it true that no expats are allowed to fly together? Do they really give you the 9-11 days off. Or there's a catch?

Expats cannot fly domestic together. The B737 sometimes goes to military airports and the controllers don't speak English well enough to do anything beyond your basic clearances. If there's a problem, they revert to Korean.

9 days off + 2 days vacation/month = 11 days off. I've been told you can take more, but you'll end up paying for it in December's pay.

[YV757]

Thanks Crunk! Appreciate it :ok:
Cpt777. Thank you also, good info! In the end, just relax and be yourself, right?

Hope to see you guys soon!

[FLYJET123]

Thank you very much. I hope my preparation and time spent there, (if selected, still waiting for May interview confirmation), will prove worthwhile. I was told that, as I am not a highly experienced cpt (just make min req) that not much chance for me and would be just "making up the numbers for rishworth". Is there any truth in that would you say? Would I be wasting my time? I hope not as I believe that I have a lot to offer in many ways.

[cpt777]

YV757
Yes just be yourself, the fact that you're called in; you only need to NOT make a fool of yourself.

FLYJET123
Sorry can't really answer that one. IMHO, everyone has to start somewhere. Since you decide to try with minimum requirement, there's no reason for them to treat you any differently when it comes to recruitment. But of course, if they have many other choices of guys with excess of 10K PIC on widebody; you can imagine who they will pick when all being equal or similar.

relv3
You probably would want a more detailed explanation, but thought I should say that if you reckon that you may have some form of medical condition that stands out glaringly; I mean either by endorsement restriction in your licence issuing authority or medical history, I strongly advise the mental preparation of NOT making it here. They are VERY thorough. Just have a search and you'll see how much hoops and loops guys had to go through.
On the other hand, if you're just looking for some "short-cuts", there's really no need. Just take it easy and get plenty of rest, the best advice I can offer..

[chai ja]

Hi...

I have been sent the invitation for interview:

I dont have a diploma, nor a levels. However, I am undertaking a diploma in aviation management currently. Would this tick the box for "2 year diploma course"??

Thanks very much
CJ

[george111]

I am currently a UK FO on the A320 with a view to applying to KAL for an A330 NTR position. I want to live in Vietnam and spend my days off there.

Are KAL happy to send you to a country other than one from which you are a national on your days off?

Would they help you to obtain a long-term visa or would I just continue extending the 90 day tourist visa?

Regards

[blues deville]

George111:

KAL doesn't care where you live. However, when hired you must designate a KAL destinaton for positioning to Seoul. KAL will also provide you with a Visa allowing you to work in South Korea.

Good luck with the interview!

bd :cool:

[Priority Left]

Does the lack of info here on the A330 fleet an indication that the crews are content?

[Fratemate]

Does anyone know if you are allowed to designate more than one commuting base? Say, for instance, you have dual citizenship and wished to commute to one country 6 months of the year and a different country the other 6, would KAL have snags with that?

PS: How can I get them to put one aircraft type, instead of different ones (747/777), on the 2 countries I can live in, so I can go home if I operate those trips :} (Not a serious question for those with a serious take on life).

[VORDME2]

You can commute wherever you want each month
EX: go to ORD and come back from LA,next month to london.That's the best part of this contract.

[parallel60]

Hello,
Are there any ex-pat 737NG FO's at Korean that could PM me. Looking to get some info. Thanks.

[cptm]

Hi, I just passed the NTR B777 screening with KAL
anybody knows where to get fast and cheap B777 type rating??

Tnks

[azlee_19]

u might want to contact boeing seattle, heard their complete 747-400 course at USD11k. Should be around that for 777.

[blues deville]

Flight Training International in Denver, Colorado. They use simulators in SEA, ATL, DFW and MIA. Cost for short 777 conversion course approx. $14000US.

bd :cool:

[Fat Dog]

Been speaking to CCL recently - they reckon I have a reasonable shot at 777 PIC NTR. Would appreciate some advice and info, obviously particularly from those who have already been down the route I may be about to take. Currently, I'm employed LHS 757 & 737 for a UK operator. Questions I have (or statements to be confirmed!):

Approx total pay US$13.5k/month (tax free for me being UK resident)?

CCL basically said I'll need to get an FAA licence to avoid flying a few circuits if I put the 777 on my JAA licence - is this easy? And approx $14k for FAA 777 rating yes? How long would I have to allow for the rating?

11 days at home per month - presumably you would be commuting back to base on the KAL network on days off?

Probably the biggest one - I've never been to Korea. Difficult question I know, but in your opinion what are the crews/trips/Korea 'base' like? Decent hotels I presume...

Answers really appreciated as giving up a LHS UK 757 job in the current market is a really big deal IMHO. Thanks very much.

[dcsagcs]

I would appreciate any information about A330 roster pattern like destinations, days off in Korea and how they manage your layover in Korea concerning the hotel accomodation... I mean, I suppose that every flight we have to check it out, is that correct?
I have heard that this fleet has a better work environment. Is it true?
Thanks in advance!

[169west]

I've heard KAL is thinking about expat FO upgrade! Any on the subject?

[B737NG]

Fat Boy..., IMHO it is not worth to give up your current position as there is a too high failure rate during the initial training after you have your TR.

169West..... There is still no upgrade for F/O insight. My sources are still telling me that in Administration is still no progress. During the last interview patterns there was still the message: No upgrades on the feedback.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[Fat Dog]

Heard about the high failure rate elsewhere. Seems bizarre. What's the reason? Just over zealous or what?

[fullforward]

Please, please to a favor to yourself, your career and presumably your family:
DO NOT EVER RISK A JOB TO TRY KAL.
Go to "search" function here, spend a couple of hours on it, and you'll understand.

Again, DO NOT risk you job and your money on something like KAL.
This is a very strong advice.

Fly safe,

FF

[FLYJET123]

Hi well done. I have applied to KAL. My only concern is a lot of people seem to be passing the screening, then go and get their type rating at great cost to themselves. But what is the drop out rate ? Is the line training very high standards and only a few actually pass? Would like some info I am sure you would.

[cirrus_konbin]

Before I decide to leave my job. Could anyone tell me that the percentage to pass the training procedure. I'm a 320 FO with 3000 total and 2200 on type now. I think ,it too risky to leave the job without the clear future.

Anyway, after screening processes, what else we must face before signing with KAL. Thanks for you help:D

[54fighting]

Hey Cirrus,
I think from your research you are on top of things. For YOUR sake,
your FAMILY's sake,your future and your sanity. NEVER NEVER entertain any thought about coming to KAL as a F/O.
% of pilot's passing? Depends on the union mood and pressure
applied to check airmen. Your % is better in Vegas, then blowing your wad
on an expensive course, based on their mood swings. And totally unfair for
you.
However if things work out. Get to fly with nationals who treat you
like ****, and you get to enjoy endless hours of complete silence.
Maybe your current job is crap and totally unbearable. Maybe a change to Kimchi-land is for you [BTW-a Korean pilot told me last week,
"Captain how can you be captian at Korean Air and not like Kimchi"?] WHAT!!!!!!
But please,please understand. No upgrade to Captain.

Best of Luck.

[fullforward]

Never ever dare to risk your current job for a chance with KAL. It's just a lottery and for that, Vegas is far more interesting.
KAL is for the unemployed only.
You had been warned.
Just do your search here on PPRUNE...

[cirrus_konbin]

Very Clear Answer. Thanks you guys for that.:ok: