Airport Managers & Supervisors

[DawnB]

I have been doing the rounds over the last couple of months and have come to the conclusion that there must be an airport managers or supervisors training course where they learn to become A$$h0le$

Ireland must get the best results, my top 6 are Aldergrove (Woodgates), Weston (faceless man in tower), Derry (everywhere), Kerry (accounts office), Galway (everywhere) and Enniskillen (just one in tower).

My latest insult was in Enniskillen where most of the staff are great and helpful, well that is until you get to the tower where the grumpy manager lives.

Between shouting at the fire fighters and then at me for trying to quickly pay a landing fee cause my pax had arrived back early this man was almost having a heart attack.

So who runs this managers course?? or is it all in a training manual??

Do these people not understand that they only exist because we Fly

Lets shame them!!!

Dawn B

[Say again s l o w l y]

It's MY airport. MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sound close?

[irish seaplane]

Have to agree with DawnB on most of them....

1) Aldergrove - Yep landing fee is £30, but so is the handling fee they don't mention so its double then quits. Airport security also a farce there, wouldn't let me airside without a Passport, Irish DL no Good. Tried to explain that I can board a Ryanair without a passport, fell on thick ears. Had to ring police to sort the debacle....

2) Derry - Rudest ATC I've ever come across, and nothing else would do only park you miles from where you need to be, via snappy instructions on a poorly signed airport.

3) Galway - "Come on in, but by the way we shut in 5 mins till 8 o clock".... Avgas touched €3.00 a litre at race week, and unless you can bring oscar worthy acting skills and claim a training flight then landing fee is €40. You never can tell whats going to happen there...

Could go on and on... But it seems to fall on simple minds that they're handy number is only a function of your custom. I'd avoid so many places that I've had a cold rub in, and do anything I could to land in the microlight field down the road from these places. Really try to skip places where I have to take my shoes off and wear a high viz jacket. This may give some wannabe's a high - but I'd sooner the green grass, and clean some cow ****, than put up with bull****.

Irish

[Solar]

Derry is definitely up with the best for being unfriendly but having said that it is only a couple of controllers that spoil it for the rest. Never had anything untoward about St Angelo so maybe you got them on a bad day. Woodgates is doing themselves no favours at all and I think it's beginning to tell.

[jollyrog]

Kerry were very nice to me at the weekend, even the accounts office. What I found irritating was the time it took to fill in a very long form to pay a €10 landing fee (plus another €6 for my passenger), but their attitude in the office and at security was just fine. Pleasant visit.

[DC10RealMan]

One of my plans for the summer was to fly around Ireland for a few days including some of the airfields that have been mentioned. I have visited Ireland both North and South on many occasions and I have always had a very genuine and warm welcome. I am a little disapointed by this thread as I worked at Heathrow for many years and thought that I had left all that "big airport", "rules is rules", and the "elf and safety" nonsense behind me.

[matspart3]

Whilst I've never been on the receiving end of ATC at Derry, the Airport Manager (and sometimes ATCO) is one of the nicest blokes you could ever meet....maybe we shouldn't tar all staff with the same brush based on the actions of one?

[L'aviateur]

Matsport3,

Whilst I agree with what you say; a single bad experience as a customer can easily leave a bad taste, and a single bad apple on an airfield can tarnish the entire visit. If airfields wish for people to return, or recommend them, a little customer service from all directions goes a long way.

I can also understand the choice not to goto larger airfields too; the exciting idea of visiting a few big airports rapidly wears off once you've the paid 30 - 60 pounds or euros for landing and handling to find yourself stood in a carpark wondering what on earth i'm doing in this place (recent experiences!).

In contrast, I had a fantastic experience at Beverley recently, from a very welcoming and informative reply when I called to obtain PPR, to a warm and friendly welcome as I entered the clubhouse. To that end, I intend to return to Beverley in the near future, simply because of two very friendly staff (and because of the novelty in mixing with motorised parachutes and microlights).

[dublinpilot]

I don't understand why people say they've had an unfriendly welcome because of a large landing fee. You should have asked about the landing fee when you got PPR, so it shouldn't be a surprise.

The two exceptions I'll take to that are Galway and Kerry.

At Galway the landing fee is unpredictable at best. Galway have one landing fee for private SEP's, one landing fee for training flights, and one landing fee for Club SEP's. The private SEP's is by far the most expensive. Trouble is not all the staff know about all the different fees, or at least deny knowledge of all but the private SEP fee. :rolleyes: They also charge you for flying through their zone if you aren't landing there! :rolleyes:

Kerry will tell you want the landing fee is when you ring for PPR, but they forget to tell you that they also charge a passenger fee :rolleyes: Since that one, I've learnt that after asking about landing fees, I need to ask "Is there any other charges or fees that I will have to pay, that I haven't asked you about?" :rolleyes:

Derry have never been rude to me. Yes they make you park a bit away from the terminal, but unlike many other airports that need to send someone to collect you, they do not charge you a handling fee. If they want to make extra work for themselves, I don't have a problem with it.

But I can honestly say that I've never had an unwelcoming experience at any airport that I've visited. Maybe I'm just lucky :confused:

dp

[Maoraigh1]

It's a few years since I last visited Ireland. I was thinking of flying round it for a third time this year. I had found Weston, Waterford, Kerry, Coonagh, Galway, Inishmore, Sligo, and Donegal all very helpful. Things must have changed.
P.S. Coonagh and Sligo were exceptionally helpful.

[dublinpilot]

Maoraigh1,

It has been my experience that if you are helfuly and friendly yourself, then you find that they people you meet are helpful and friendly people too.

Those who are grumpy and only see their own problems only find grumpy people where they go.

Don't let the stories here put you off. I think you'll find a very welcomeing experience here (apart from the weather). ;)

dp

[stiknruda]

For reasons that I cannot remember it pains me to agree with DP - however my experience in ALL of the counties was that a smile is often repaid by a smile and I cannot recall a hard-time from any ground flunkies in Ireland. Weston, Clombalugh, Waterford, Kilkenny, Kilrush, the west coast, etc.

Stik

[Say again s l o w l y]

There are few airfields that you can visit, that no matter how smiley and friendly you are, you will get snarled at and treated like dirt, no matter who you are.

There are, unfortunately, many sales prevention officers at work in UK airfields.

[dublinpilot]

For reasons that I cannot remember it pains me to agree with DP

Did we have a falling out in the past? :sad: If so, then I don't remember it either, so lets forget about it :oh: :)

dp

[irish seaplane]

Wouldn't want to put anyone off visiting Ireland. Really great spot for a flying trip. Cannot find fault with 62/65 airfields I've used. Guess there's only a handful of places where you'll get the silly treatment, and with over 200 places to land I guess thats acceptable.

Just do it....


Irish

[Radar]

DC10Real Man,

Don't be put off. Spent a spectaoular week in '07 with a PA28 doing the rounds in Ireland. Without exception, it was a positive experience (we did give Galway a miss :) ). One of the most spectacular days' flying I've spent was the trip from Kilkenny around the Ring of Kerry - Kenmare - Blasket Islands - Dingle Peninsula. A quick fuel stop in Kerry then off to Inishmore for the night by way of the Cliffs of Moher. Magic!! Go for it and enjoy!!

[Phil Space]

Where is that nice man who used to manage Oban working now?:D

[IO540]

I don't think one should moan about landing fees below say £20.

The reason is that in the UK the airport has no other income.

Elsewhere there are taxpayer subsidies, which is why the USA is mostly zero, France a few Euros, etc.

But in the UK an airport has a choice of

- zero maintenance, runways covered in stones so loads of hugely expensive prop maintenance/overhauls, toilets covered in excrement, bad taxiway condition generally (e.g. Elstree)

- no facilities beyond cutting the grass (true for many/most grass fields)

- a £20 landing fee and providing a decent airport (Shoreham is one example)

Even an airport like Shoreham is - financially - basically a commercial/business park which just happens to have a runway and a tower.

Welshpool seems to hang in there, albeit with miniscule staff, but I guess they get local council subsidies occassionally.

The ultralight brigade will never pay more than 3p anyway so there is no point in trying to please them.

What I hate is an airport charging £50 plus, for a crap service (Norwich) where they confiscate your toothpaste. And it gets worse but this happens everywhere - Prague is now about £150 I think which is way OTT. At this level you do lose a lot of "normal GA" traffic. Norwich has to charge a lot because the place is full to the brim of yellow jacketed important looking people looking for something to do. The worst example of management I have seen for a long time.

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

Where is that nice man who used to manage Oban working now?:D


Coventry?

WW

[Phil Space]

What I hate is an airport charging £50 plus, for a crap service (Norwich) where they confiscate your toothpaste. And it gets worse but this happens everywhere - Prague is now about £150 I think which is way OTT. At this level you do lose a lot of "normal GA" traffic. Norwich has to charge a lot because the place is full to the brim of yellow jacketed important looking people looking for something to do. The worst example of management I have seen for a long time.

You are spot on there. Norwich is a small airport with big ideas they can never realise. You could try entering and leaving via the flying club if they still allow it.
Landing in a helicopter is a pain. They make you land on one of the H's then bus you to the terminal for the 3rd degree. Better you phone the landlord of the Green Man in Rackheath and land on the grass near the pub car park free of charge. The passenegers using Norwich are now charged a tax called an airport development fee. As I'm just as near to Stansted I've voted with my feet. Norwich has lost quite a lot of trade over the last year.:=

[IO540]

Going via a flying club may or may not be a solution, because the airport authority will still chase you for the full landing fee if the said club was ...... shall we say .... "less than prompt" in handing over the money (to the airport authority) which you paid them ;)

This kind of thing has happened to me at more than one airport. I had to pay twice at one French one - not worth the trouble contesting it. It is especially bad if you fly an N-reg because the airport chases the US trustee owner who eventually passes the bill to you, with a stroppy letter to not do it again.

Norwich is a nice city to visit on a nice sunny day. They should encourage GA. The place has no flying activity to speak of most of the time, yet it has a huge amount of ground staff. Somebody has evidently set up a nice recruitment empire there. They should have a "GA terminal" - the flying schools/clubs there are not a solution because strictly speaking you need to be a member, and often there may not be anybody there who can accept a payment.

[goatface]

IO540/Phil Space

Had you either of you bothered to check, you'd know that Saxonair - SaxonAir Charter Ltd - Private Air Charter (http://www.saxonair.com)-have been providing a dedicated G/A - FBO operation at Norwich since late last year and they will handle any sort of aircraft.

They have their own dedicated apron, superb office and lounge facilities with state of the art briefing equipment, no requirement to go through the nause of security prior to departure and what's more, they are authorised to collect the landing fee, which is cheaper than if you use the ordinary airport terminal facilities.
The only proviso is that, at the moment, PPR is necessary via Saxonair or ATC, but it's not a big deal and if you happen to forget you certainly won't be turned away.

The place has no flying activity to speak of most of the time, yet it has a huge amount of ground staff. Somebody has evidently set up a nice recruitment empire there.

Again, had you bothered to check, staffing throughout is down to the bare bones, many dedicated employees have not had contracts renewed and those that have stayed haven't had a pay rise for nearly two years.
The vast majority of them stay because they enjoy the working environment but they also accept that the economic times are tough, with just as hard time ahead, when the economy turns around so will aviation.
Nonetheless, you'd be pressed to get a better service at any comparable airport.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Goatface, seriously, you are kidding aren't you?

[goatface]

No kidding or bleating - those are the facts...

[whygo4it]

Norwich Airport has recently had a change of management. The airport have realised that GA doesn't work through the main terminal and have given the task of GA handling to SaxonAir, also a charter provider. They look after all areas from Gulfstream jets to Qualifying cross-country students.

The aim as I understand it is to provide a good service at a reasonable price according to aircraft weight to encourage GA back through SaxonAir on the Western side of the airport. They have their own Apron and facilities. Worth a look, good guys.

[Say again s l o w l y]

That'll be better. Good luck with it.

[IO540]

That is very good news. What's the landing fee for say 1500kg? Cannot see a price list on the SaxonAir website.

[overandout]

I think Goatface must work at Saxon/Norwich

I got a quote just now for C.172 ,single ,domestic landing. no parking required
£45.24 Inc VAT.
That is not cheap for an overmanned and inefficient airport (who now incidentally consider themselves so important and busy that they are PPR only!!

[goatface]

Overandout

I don't work for Saxonair and I agree that the current charges are steep, but Saxonair are negotiating hard to bring the landing fee for light aircraft down, I believe significant progress is being made in that direction.
The PPR element was introduced because staffing is so tight at the terminal and accordingly the handling guys needed to know when a non scheduled visiting aircraft needed to be catered for.
Now Saxonair take care of the vast majority of visitors, they also would like to see the PPR element withdrawn, again they are making progress.

I'm sure it'll be made very public when they win the battle.

As your comments regarding overstaffing and inefficiancy, I challenge you to produce the evidence because I certainly stand by my previous post in reply to IO540 and Phil Space.

[IO540]

£45 for a C172 is way OTT.

The PPR element was introduced because staffing is so tight at the terminal and accordingly the handling guys needed to know when a non scheduled visiting aircraft needed to be catered for.

You must be kidding. Catered for ... how? Do they need time to lay on the champagne and sandwiches? GA traffic is generally able to land, taxi, park, and the occupants get out on their own and use their legs to vacate the airport. No handling is required or expected.

I know some top-end GA likes to use handling services which is why Norwich etc should provide this (£100+) and for that you get the taxi and hotel etc all booked. But normal GA doesn't need it.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Blackpool is up there with the worse GA airports.

Since Jet2 started operations from their portacabin, the airport has suffered delusions of grandeur.

Ridiculous landing fees and attitude towards private passengers and the like.

You're made to feel it's a privilege and a concession to land there (which it's not).

One example of an airport not realising that it's there to serve aviation and not be served by it.

Blackpool International!!!

Whatever.

SITW :}

[Phil Space]

Overandout


As your comments regarding overstaffing and inefficiancy, I challenge you to produce the evidence because I certainly stand by my previous post in reply to IO540 and Phil Space.

Norwich airport management have shot themselves in the foot with their attitude over the last few years. They can't disguise the fact that GA is unwanted on their small airport trying to play with the big boys. It is almost like they are out to expel light aviation from what is a very quite corner of the UK.

Commercial traffic was driven away by a tax on passengers which the airport called a development fee.

This from Norwich Airport Reviews and Norwich Airport Passenger Opinions about Norwich Airport standards (http://www.airlinequality.com/Airports/Airport_forum/norwich.htm)
sums the place up.

Probably the worst experience in modern travel can be had at Norwich Airport. I fly on business regularly through Norwich, and have done for almost 20 years. Check in staff are often rude, and spend more time chatting and discussing the previous nights clubbing events during checking in passengers. Compared to all other airports I experience regularly worldwide, it is the only Airport which applies a supplementary fee (now £5 per person) which is not advertised until you arrive at the airport. If You do not pay the 'Airport development Fee' you WILL not be allowed to go through to departures, whether domestic or international. For this fee, you obtain the privilege of a single choice of Cafeteria (with extortionate costs for food and drinks), a single Bar, a single shop, and toilet. Parking fees - you get 5 minutes drop off time (which i'm told will be reduced to 3 mins in Jan 2009) in the short stay airport only, and if you exceed this must pay a £1.50 fee, and any other time is again extortionate.

As someone who is forced to use this airport twice a month to and from Amsterdam, the attractions soon pall. True, NIA check staff now bother to open earlier than one hour before departure, (huge improvement) but not so long ago we poor suckers on the Amsterdam flight would all be queing one hour before the published departure time - the desk wouldn't open till one hour before ETD after which someone would deign to leave their coffee break to process the huge queue whereupon we would immediately be called to the gate. After packing us on, we would frequently take off half an hour before scheduled time. In the ladies toilets in Departures, there is no PA. The individuals on the staff at Norwich Airport are amiable enough, but Norwich Airport's management have obviously never used an airport as a customer in their life, and have no idea how real airports serve real customers

[rogerbucks]

By contrast, I flew my daughter back to Uni at Exeter last summer- They could not have been more pleasant and helpful- Landing fee for a c150 around 18 quid, and 2 hours free parking.

No PPR required, just a call to approach in good time, and the guy on security had a sense of humour too!::)

[Phil Space]

Norwich were like that a long time ago. I have pictures from the early nineties parked on one of the main stands right outside the terminal.

Nowadays they would prefer I park in Tibenham:ugh:

More passenger comment here

Norwich Airport - Norwich, Norfolk - Airports - Qype (http://www.qype.co.uk/place/240024-Norwich-Airport-Norwich)
Omniport Holdings, the owners of Norwich airport seem to have taken what was once a pleasant and friendly little local airport and turned it into an overly priced (considering the supplements to fly from Norwich) and unpleasant experience for regular travellers. The £5 'Development Fee’ which is classed as a contribution which is not voluntary in today’s current climate is even more offensive than it was when they introduced it. For a family of 4, the fee almost now covers the petrol cost to drive to Luton or Stansted, where the facilities are far more numerous and varied. I personally have stopped using the airport as I would rather take a stance and drive an extra 40 minutes to an alternative airport, and if others would do the same it would force omniport to remove this unjust fee. No other business I know is allowed, once you purchase your ticket, to add an un-announced supplement to pay for work which should come from the companies already substantial profits. The fact that Flybe have pulled out in protest says much about the companies couldn’t care less attitude. Hopefully a government petition will prompt an investigation into this.

[IO540]

Rest assured that all people referred to read these forums, and the more sensible ones will walk away with food for thought.

[overandout]

Re; Innefficiency and overmanning at Norwich.

They may have changed a bit but the last time I landed there (domestically) I was parked on the eastern Apron , (which i believe is technically landside). Therefore from C 172 inbound from Old Buck, I waited by the aircraft for some time before being collected by a bus. Said bus then had to stop at a Security gate to get Airside. Off the bus and into security portacabin (along with the driver who was also searched) for a full feel-down and bag search. This is just getting into Norwich.
And goatface can seriously say this is a sensible way to run an airfield?
Needless to say getting out again was a farce with search and being photographed.

Let us hope Saxonair can see that this rubbish is stopped.

[DC10RealMan]

I can remember going there in the 1980s and it was like that then. One Saturday evening in the summer and very quiet. My two friends and I walking across the ramp to fly back to Fairoaks and suddenly shouted at by security man with very "military" manner who then proceeded to bawl at us that we were not allowed on the ramp. I explained to him that we were pilots walking to our aeroplane and not spotters. He turned on his heels and walked off without a word of apology for the "bawling out" he had just given us. I never went back there again.

[IO540]

In all walks of life, certain character types are drawn to certain occupations.

Some of these attractions are more obvious than others :)

ISO9000 anyone ????

[goatface]

Hence the reason for drawing your attention to the new services offered by Saxonair to G/A and everyone else, there's no doubt that they are trying very hard to make visiting Norwich the pleasureable experience it once was.

As for me, I don't run the place, I just work there, having being reduced to turning up each day, doing my job to the best of my ability and going home.
Get my drift?:ugh:

[Phil Space]

Well spotted IO540:ok: