New person needing some advice!

[waring192]

Hi everyone, been looking at these forums for the last few weeks and trawling the web for answers (also read the sticky!).

Basicly I have always loved flying and after my friend finished his PPL (Heli) and started to get ready too do his CPL I have now found myself in the perfect financial position to start learning/training. Been in property devlopment for the last few years after finishing uni and as the market is bad at the moment I want to start my training.

I also live with my partner so going too the oxford or Jerez intergrated training place is out the question.

So from what i have researched I have too do these:

Class 2 medical
PPL
Night
IR
MEP Rating

Class 1 medical
CPL

I have found a school near me (Flight Academy Blackpool) which if i have this right, offers almost everything I need apart from the multi crew and ATPL?

So without bashing me too much :) am I correct? Also is this flight school good/recomended? Or are there others that are better nearby(South Cumbria).

Also where abouts would I be able too do the ATPL and Multicrew?

Cheers :ok:

James

[White Otter]

Firstly I'd reconmend getting the Class 1 medical right away and not bothering with the Class 2 at all (so that you don't end up wasting money pursuing something that you're unfit for).

Don't know anything about your school but I'd say that its probably a good idea to do as much as possible at one school like you could get there. ATPL and MCC can wait really (at least until you have your PPL - you never know what your flight school may be planning expansion wise).

[waring192]

Cheers, am I right in thinking the Class 1 medical has too be done at Gatwick? (been looking at so much info that my mind has gone numb :eek: )

Dont suppose you have a link too a list of things they test do you?

[Canada Goose]

(been looking at so much info that my mind has gone numb )


Get used to that feeling, cos IF you ever go down this route you'll become quite accustomed to that feeling one you start studying for your ATPL written exams !

:E

Much snow in Cumbria ? - I'm up there next weekend ! :ok:

BTW - Agree with the comment about Class 1 and unfortunately it does require a trip down to Gatwick. The first of many many hoops you will endure !!

[Mach086]

well not necessariliy in that order - baring the fact that you you should go for the class 1 straight away. Surely you want to do the hours building before the ME/IR. Or have you accounted for this in your basic agenda you wrote?

[Rugbyears]

I second Class 1 medical at the outset. Furthermore, I would...

PPL
Night Rating
IMC

ATPLs + Hour Build gradually
Hour build (Alternatively, Hour build after ATPLs)
CPL
FI

IR – I would only consider this after CPL (very expensive shelf life)
MCC

TR

Just my modular schedule - not appropriate for all!
Best of luck

[waring192]

Again, thanks for the advice everyone.

Much snow in Cumbria ? - I'm up there next weekend ! http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

None what so ever! Was hardly any when the rest of the country got loads the other week.

Surely you want to do the hours building before the ME/IR. Or have you accounted for this in your basic agenda you wrote?

erm, not 100% sure, does the ME/IR count towards the hour building?

[Mach086]

waring,
Entry requirements for ME/IR

A Private or Commercial Pilot’s Licence issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 with a night qualification.
70 hours as pilot-in-command
50 hours PIC cross-country flight time
Hold a valid JAR first class medical certificate.
Passed a course of theoretical instruction as set out in the JAR-FCL
Demonstrated use of English language as set out in the JAR-FCL

my point was when you embark on the ME/IR you want to be fresh out of 100 hours (or whatever from Flight Ex) of non stop flying - first rate flying skills etc. Rather than lets say doing hour building first, then 20 odd weeks of full time ground school.

ME/IR does count towards "hours built" obviously. But my humble opinion is you want to be at your peak when you embark on the ME/IR

[waring192]

Thanks Mach, might be best to do what your saying.


Just been having a look at the medical site. Also found a link too the colour blindness chart. Do you have too get everyone correct? I got one wrong, the follow the line one, couldnt see it very clearly. The numbers are fine as were a most off the line ones.

Think I will do what they surgest and print off all the requirments and see my doc and optician and see if I am ok. Is there long waiting times at gatwick too get the medical?

[waring192]

Hi everyone, I have taken the 1st step...well kinda, got my appointment at gatwick for the class 1 on the 6th of march. If all goes well then its onto the PPL :)

[Rugbyears]

Excellent news – right be proactive, encourage yourself to go swimming, possibly a little extra walking or running. Furthermore, I ensured that I consumed a reasonable diet, including Flora pro-active drinks, butter and so on; this will ensure a lower cholesterol reading!

You most probably will not require any of the afore mentioned, nevertheless, it will do you no harm….Best of luck:ok:

[waring192]

Cheers Rugbyears, will be improving my diet over the next few weeks and cutting down on the death sticks :)

[Rugbyears]

Where do you intend flying from....Carlisle?

There are two very good flying schools up there, Carlisle Flying School as well as Border Air Training.

[waring192]

Blackpool, its closer as I live in south cumbria and my friend is also doing his Heli PPL there at the moment so it might be possible to car share if we have near the same times.

I did look at the carlise one but as the FAB does almost everything its appealed too me more.

[quant]

waring i strongly advise you to visit the flight school you mentioned first and have a good look around (if you have not done so already). I had a look and i was not impressed; although they had fantastic planes the other facilities imo were rubbish.

They currently do not have the authorisation to carry out CPL/IR etc so watch out. Do not pay upfront if you decide to do your ppl and hour building there!

ATPL's you will have to do @ bristol/oxford etc

Some documents of note:

1) CAA Approved list of UKFTOs (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=2854) - have a look!
2) Medical stuff (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=68&gid=211)
3) LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1591)

I'm in the same boat as you and i start my traninig in April. Currently reading my theoretical ppl books and awaiting for my class 1 medical renewal date to come up with my local AME (always tells me i'm over weight - he will be pleasantly surprised this time :p)

good luck :ok:

[sparks-flying]

Can I also recommend that you visit that school first!! :ok:

I don't think that you will find any of the facilities to be rubbish though. As someone that has used several training facilities/ FTO's throughout the UK. I honestly beleive theirs to be amongst the top 3 in the UK (the others were not in the North!).

[quant]

I honestly beleive theirs to be amongst the top 3 in the UK (the others were not in the North!).Sorry i don't want to de-rail this thread so i wont post anymore but sparks-flying you cannot be serious? Top 3 bah bottom one. OAA, Cabair, stapleford, multiflight, Bristol, PAT, CTC, Tayside, Tayflight, LAC flying school, ravenair etc in my opinion were better than this one! and yes i have visited them all! The other thing that put me on about this one was the fact they had a bar in the middle of the facilities and the man was more interested in you paying up front than your actual training...

waring good luck but the nearest ones to you are multiflight, tayside, tayflight and they all are superior imo - definetly check out those docs i posted and read the sticky thread ontop of this forum!

GL :p

[waring192]

Thanks everyone, have so many conflicting views on the place! :confused:

the reason i thought it might be best is that its:

A) Closest (I live in south cumbria about 10 min from the M6) and I used to do the trip back and forth from Leeds which takes about 1h45.

B) It does more than the PPL which is what the ones in carlise only offer.

But then again I dont know much about flight schools, what things are you meant too look out for when you visit one? Sorry if I sound stupid :p

[Rugbyears]

As I have not actually flown from here on great number of occasions, I feely I would not be eligible to offer a qualified opinion. However, I believe any such individual intending spending such a vast sum to first visit the school – any school. Carefully observe the facilities and aircrafts used, question the instructors, ask why you should opt for them in place of their competitors – make them sell the school to you. Indeed, you are the one purchasing a very expensive experience, so ensure you do not become another statistic, it is important for this experience to feel personalised.:)

[Rugbyears]

A) Closest (I live in south cumbria about 10 min from the M6) and I used to do the trip back and forth from Leeds which takes about 1h45.

B) It does more than the PPL which is what the ones in carlise only offer.

In my opinion, I would refrain from focusing on anything other then the initial ‘Trial Flight’, you never know, flying may not be for you – you certainly wouldn’t be the first.

That said I would concentrate on the PPL first regardless of school, again, in my opinion, Carlisle would be you best option, others may feel differently! Upon completion of the PPL enquire the length and breadth of the United Kingdom. You should not be looking for the closest most convenient, more so, best equipped to furnish you with the skill set needed to become a competent pilot. CPL I always suggest Tayflight (Perth). If you recall, once you have achieved PPL status, you still have a further 6-18 months to complete the ATPL examinations prior to initiating the CPL training.

[Richie82]

What ever you do, don't go anywhere near Raven Air in Liverpool. That place must be one of the worst run businesses I have ever had the misfortune to encounter!

[sparks-flying]

I would agree with you on that Richie:ok:

[DaveD]

Waring192 my names Dave, nice to meet you.

I'm just finishing my PPL at Flight Academy Blackpool at the moment. If you want, give me ring and I can tell you all about what you need to do. I'm currently doing the whole thing, after my PPL i'll be moving onto my ATPL's then CPL and ratings.

Send me a private message and i'll give you some info.
I'll be close to finishing my PPL soon and doing abit of hour building, if you ever want to come along, dont hesitate to ask me.

Regards, Dave.

P.S. Flight Academy Blackpool is probably the cheapest and most professional school in the north of england.. fantastic planes and the instructors are fantastic.

[Hesam.Jet]

This organization is a joke, its a scam!

Basically, they quotted me a price before I decided to go and when I showed up, all of suddenly the prices had gone up. By the way; they charge you the same price for flying solo as flying dual. Their excuse is that the instructors still has to be there when you fly solo, well this is the case in every flight school around the world, but you do not see them charging the same price for solo as dual during the PPL faze. They are full of it, trust me....

Heard somebody also got screwed for the deposit that has to be payed as a member, I have also heard rumours from a source within the organization that the school is going bankrupt which is why that person decided not to work there anymore. I am not suprised, do yourselves a favour and keep your money. If you give them any money you may not see the lights of it ever again.

Be aware this organization is also blacklisted..

Hope this helps.

[waring192]

Be aware this organization is also blacklisted..

can you expand on this...

[EK4457]

You will not get any expansion of these bizzare claims as they are not true.

Hesam.Jet has made a total of 2 posts. Both are identical. He is a very sad individual who uses many usernames to spread untruths about FAB.

I believe he is a former employee with a chip on his shoulder. And quite clearly no girlfriend either.

All of what he says is not true.

In fact, the only criticism of FAB is that they were associated with this clown in the first place.

FAB are probably the best value for money FTO in the UK.

Oh, and I am not a member of or emplyed by them.

EK

[waring192]

thought it was a bit suspect! Cheers

[DaveD]

Haha.. ofcourse they charge you solo time with the instructor.. Your flying on your instructors license..

What an absolute idiot.. I love it how these "random" people come on and make random posts full of absolute rubbish. I'm sure this user has no connection to any other school(s) on the airport.. surely not..

I'm thinking of starting my own school.. might do a few dodgy charters too, who knows...

[Richie82]

Sparks flying,, why? What was your bad experience with Raven Air? I went down there last year with the intention of getting my PPL done. Turned up to have a look round and literally none of the staff were remotely inter.ested in even saying hello to me. The only guy I spoke to was a CPL student who had been waiting around for two hours for the chief instructor to turn up for his lesson, said it happened all the time.

I get the feeling that there is room for a "decent" flying school at Liverpool, would set one up myself if I was a) qualified and b) had the cash!

[sparks-flying]

Hi Richie, You described them to a T.

Everyone I know that has used them has said exactly the same.:ugh:

SF

[Flintstone]

Sadly it seems that nothing has changed there in ten years. Back then I went to them when I returned from a stint overseas. Pretty straightforward you'd think but alas not. Not when the (then) instructor was also an ATCO at Manchester and he'd often run late because of traffic, extra shiftwork or whatever. My colleague and I walked away after two weeks and went to Bristol which was completely the opposite.

[midgie]

Waring 192,

There is one other requirement which I think has been missed on this thread. I've only quickly skimmed through it, so if it has been mentioned my aplogies. Also DaveD may have given you the info - but good to have it all here for others to see too.

Along with Night Rating etc you have to do one 300nm x-country. With take off & landings at 2 other airfields (ie: NOT the one you started at). Don't leave this for the winter! With shorter days & lousy weather, it is a sod if this is the one thing you left till last!:ugh: It is perfectly do-able, but can be frustrating planning it all, booking time of work, booking the A/C. And the wx stops you.:}.

So plan to do Night Rating in autumn/winter. And 300nm X-Country in summer.

You can do 300nm-er as part of your 100 PIC Hr building,thereby ticking off 2 requirements at once. Yay! But you need it prior to starting CPL/IR.

(To clarify the 100 Hrs: as previously mentioned you will need 70 PIC Hrs to start ME/IR, but 100 in total for licence issue.)

I hope this makes sense - I've had a glass on wine thie eve!
Best of luck
midgie

[G SXTY]

Couldn't advise on flying schools in Cumbria (wrong end of the country) but I'd suggest a few questions for any school anywhere:

Do your homework before signing up with any school. These are just a few of the questions you should be asking:

- Is groundschool / briefing time included in their rates or is it charged separately?
- Do they offer written statements detailing costs against hours flown? Are these statements provided on demand?
- Are rates fixed for the duration of training, or subject to change? If subject to change, by how much?
- What are their payment terms? Do they require your account to be in positive balance prior to flying, and if so, by how much? (NEVER pay for an entire course upfront, and be VERY, VERY suspicious of any FTO that demands large upfront payments).
- Is there a surcharge for credit card payments? Note that in the UK at least, paying by credit card offers more protection than cash or debit card.
- Is charging based on block time, block + taxy allowance or hobbs meter?
- Is there an additional charge for 170A flights or are they charged at normal dual rates?
- What is the rate for aircraft hire during tests (it should be examiner fee + solo rate - not dual).
- What is the average number of hours taken by their students to pass the PPL/CPL/IR compared to the legal minimum? If they 'don't have this information', then they should - again, be suspicious.

Thorough planning and research will reduce the chance of nasty surprises at the end of your training. And whatever you do, budget on at least 10-20% extra on top of the quoted price to allow for additional training and exam resits - very few students manage to pass everything in minimum hours.

[waring192]

Hi everyone, passed my medical and had my first lesson and now have 1:15 in my logbook!

What a day, everything went perfect. I am doing my training in a 172 but went up in a PA28 today. Reason for change as there are more times avaliable in the 172 but he showed me inside the 172 etc.

Roll on Sunday for my next lesson! :ok:

[maxdrypower]

Waring , have pmd ya where did you choose in the end ?