Bonanza V35 hints and infos?

[AN2 Driver]

Hi there,

question for you Bonanza drivers.

I've been shopping for new wings for a while now, after getting back into flying. Used to own a light trainer but have flown stuff up to PASE (ok, and the AN2 and I know they are cheap but at 300 l/hr well, ... I still rather fly them for someone else paying the bills :O ) and so on.

First I was thinking, ok, use the KISS system and keep it simple, stupid. Simple as in fixed gear, fixed prop, PA28, Cherokee 140/180'ish. They all lack the range and certainly the speed but heck, if something breaks on one of them, you can find someone to fix it just about everywhere and they are relatively cheap examples to be found. Could I live with it? Sure, as my personal transport with 2-3 folks inside and 500 NM range, I think I could to most of what I want to do.

Enters a lovely V35 Bonanza I got offered. She is a beauty, absolutely pristine condition, old fashioned ex-IFR certified, which is fine, I am not planning on getting my IR back any time soon. 225 hp engine and 44 USG fuel tanks. And she is not much more expensive than the PA's.

My first hunch was, :eek:, I can get all THAT instead of a Cherokee my age, (ok, the Bonanza is even ten years older than this) for almost the same money. :ooh: I have heard ravings of Bonanza owners, but nothing substantial. So I wonder if some of you have experience with this kind of airplane.

Engine is a Continental E225, mid time. I get figures between 10 and 12 GPH @ 170 kts, but nobody can say for sure (I have not seen the AOM yet). Any known problems with this engine?

Any problems I should know about on the aircraft (All AD's are done), it's a C35 of the early 50ties.

What are your experiences, if any, and what kind of legs are you planning?

Does anyone know about the cost and feasibility of installing additional tanks as 44 USG is really quite few for a plane like this...

Thanks guys, appreciate it.

(BTW, I did google/yahoo/younameit but frankly, the esteemed members here usually deliver much better stuff).

Best regards
AN2 driver

[RatherBeFlying]

Check with the people at Belvoir Publications (Aviation safety and Aviation Consumer). I remember a litany of reports of tail failures, especially in the early models:(

Parts will be expensive.

But it's a lovely plane and as a child had a number of trips in the Western US in one:ok:

[moonym20]

Very nice line of aircraft.

you may want to think about getting in touch with the Bonanza Society, either in Europe or America, they are a great bunch of folks with an infinate amount of knowlage, they are great for advice.

just considder there is a huge ongoing argument with older/high time bonanzas and Spar Webs, if ABS dont find a win/compromise most older model owners are looking at paying out for the mod.. im told it could be very expensive :ouch:

Best of Luck :ok:

[TheGorrilla]

I hope you're not a doctor!! :}

[411A]

Enters a lovely V35 Bonanza I got offered.

First off, a V35 has a 285HP engine, not 225.

Clearly you have been offered a much older model.
Beware...these older airplanes had magnesium covered ruddervators etc, and expect significant corrosion with same, unless they have been recovered with aluminum.
Quite frankly...I would look for a new(er) model, if a Bonanza is your hearts desire.

[dirkdj]

I have owned a Bonanza since 36 years. They are expensive to buy, but with a bit of luck, very economical to operate and maintain.
I would look for an S35 or later, with the more modern IO520 engine. Be aware that all V-tail Bonanzas are fairly limited in rearward loading. The F33A is better and the A36 is much better in that respect.
All Bonanza ruddervators are magnesium and they must be properly maintained and protected. If corrosion occurs, reskinning is a must. There are no aluminium skins approved, only magnesium.
The gear is very sturdy and reliable but must be properly rigged to start with. The ABS has a special manual just for inspecting the gear.
Nothing flies and handles like a Bonanza, it's a pilot's dream. You can take it into very short and rough fields or go into major airports, maintaining 160 KTS on the glideslope.
Get a prebuy from a Beech experienced man, the ABS (The American Bonanza Society (http://www.bonanza.org)) has a prebuy checklist available.

You don't buy a Beech, you become the caretaker of one.

[AN2 Driver]

Thanks guys.

@dirkdj

>>All Bonanza ruddervators are magnesium and they must be properly maintained and protected. If corrosion occurs, reskinning is a must. There are no aluminium skins approved, only magnesium.

Understood. I reckon this means hangar is an absolute must? Hangar space is extremely hard to find here, she'd have to reside outside most of the time, which was why we were looking at a simple plane first....

>>The gear is very sturdy and reliable but must be properly rigged to start with. The ABS has a special manual just for inspecting the gear.

Right, I'll check that out.

The last thing we want or can afford is a money pit, that is why I am asking here.... But as you say, the Bonanzas are a delight to fly, all I need to know now is if they are a delight to own as well :)

@411A, yes, sorry, my mistake. It's a C35 which has a D35 type Continental E225-8 Engine, built in the early 1950'ies. She's got around 5000 hours total, the engine 3500 total but only 1000 SOH, the Prop is a Hartzell 2 blade with 1300 hrs total and 700 since oh.

@mooneym20

>>just considder there is a huge ongoing argument with older/high time bonanzas and Spar Webs, if ABS dont find a win/compromise most older model owners are looking at paying out for the mod.. im told it could be very expensive

Not sure which mod you mean, I am told that all AD's are complied with including the V-Tail mod, which was done decades ago, she has no speed limits like the ones that did not have the mod. I am also told by the maintenance organisation that all corrosion checks they have done on a yearly basis (annual) were negative.

@Gorilla, no I am not a doctor, otherwise expensive maintenance would not be a showstopper :E

I flew a Baron in IFR Training for a few hours before changing to the Seneca III (cheaper) and I remember it was a delight to fly and land. As the Bonanza shares the fusellage with this Baron (4 seater) I used to fly, I know what they are like inside, yea, that is nice.

Anyhow, keep those comments coming, especcially if someone has experience with this early Bonanzas. I'll talk to the ABS in the mean time.

Best regards
An2

[dirkdj]

Besides the ABS which is a must, there is also the Beech-Owners mailing list with very valuable contributor: The beech-owners Archives (http://skymaster.kjsl.com/pipermail/beech-owners/)

Here is another blog: CSOBeech.com - Operating & Ownership Tips (http://www.csobeech.com/index.html)

Have a look at these publications:

"Colvins Clinic" (about maintenance)
"Flying the Beech Bonanza" (about flying the Bonanza but you figured that out)

Both books are available from ABS and others.

I would certainly look for a two-yearly Corrosion-X treatment of the whole airframe. The magnesium ruddervators just need to be primed and painted properly if you want to avoid skin replacement later.

I bought the Bonanza new in 1973 and it has no hidden surprises. If you have an unknown airframe mishandled by uninformed shops, then good luck. A good prebuy by a Beech specialist is worth its money in gold. he will tell you which airplane to walk away from. A friend of mine bought a 1971 A36, it was real ugly paint and interior (brownish green, uck) but it flew like a charm and was well maintained. He had it repainted with the Jaguar scheme and new interior fitted, it is gorgeous now. Unfortunately my friend dropped dead while mowing his lawn two years ago.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The 35 series are delightfull airplanes to fly with the early lighter marks the nicest IMO.....But.....buying the aircraft is the cheapest part of the ownership experience. A new Bonanza costs about $800,000 USD and parts are priced accordingly. A fellow I know bought a A35 a couple of years ago. Unfortunately the prepurchase inspection he got was not very good and so when his first annual inspection came around he was faced with a potential $60,000 bill ($10,000 more than he paid for it). He ended up selling the airplane to a breakers yard and lost a ton of money. Frankly I would recommend you seriously look at a Cessna or Piper fixed gear single. Maintainance and running costs are predictable and there is a ready resale market.

[AN2 Driver]

Again Thanks.

Went to the website you indicated, dirkdj, and ordered some reading stuff about early Bonanzas :)

>>If you have an unknown airframe mishandled by uninformed shops, then good luck

Well, it appears that this one has been with the maintenance organisation it is now for over 40 years, so they should know it. My plan is to talk to them in depth, also to the CAA inspector who does the yearly checks and make them make me a binding offer for the next annual. That's a practice I used to quite some success in the past and one way of getting a pre-buy here. Apart, they have numerous Barons and other Beech Aircraft up to King Airs which they maintain, so they must know something.

@Big Pistons Forever
>> fellow I know bought a A35 a couple of years ago. Unfortunately the prepurchase inspection he got was not very good and so when his first annual inspection came around he was faced with a potential $60,000 bill ($10,000 more than he paid for it).

Youch. Well, that is why I would go about it the way I said, if the MCO who have maintained the aircraft for decades would give me such an estimate, I'll know... Apart, a sale like this would bord on fraud. I hope your friend could get some compensation from someone involved in this deal... Got the message about parts, again thanks for the insight.

BTW, this one comes with 44 USG total fuel. I am a tad worried that this makes it a very short legged aircraft, actually less range than a Cherokee 180. Anyone ever planned one like this? I see something like 350 NM range at 65% and 400 NM at 55% (with 45 mins reserve), which is definitly less than I'd like.

Fixed gear Pipers are what we have been looking for before this one sort of made our heads turn. There are several Cherokee 140/150 and 180'ies around which are tempting and have good records but require a massive panel upgrade.

Thanks again, pprune at it's best :)

Best regards
AN2 Driver

[Big Pistons Forever]

AN2 Driver

Good to see you were going into this with eyes wide open. With respect to my friends A35; he in the end did not proceed with legal action. Much of the cost involved the requirement to replace all the magnesium control surfaces
(rudervators, ailerons, and flaps) due to corrosion. The engineer who previously signed out the aircraft argued they were in acceptable shape the previous year :hmm::rolleyes: ....then there was the old style prop. It was now time expired and when sent in for overhaul both blades and the hub were scrap as they were affected by a major AD. A new prop with no exchange was almost $12000 US. That plus the fact that 60 yr old panel wireing was no longer safe and a bunch of other small but expensive parts it needed as well as a huge labour bill made the aircraft beyond economic repair.

As for fuel, 44 USG was the two standard wing tanks. A 20 USG aux tank in the baggage compartment was a factory option and should therefore be retrofitable (assuming you are comfortable with fuel in the cabin....not a great idea IMO). The other option is to fit the aftermarket 20 USG wing tip tanks. With 80 Gals total you can go a long way.

[AN2 Driver]

@Big Pistons Forever

Yes, the prop is another thing to look at. I hear that on this series its electric, but there are mods for hydraulic props. I will need to see what this one has actually got.

Also I saw conflicting reports on the TBO of the engine. Some say it's got 2000 the others say 1500 hours. If it's 1500, that will make things very difficult, as that means the engine is not half time but way over that.

Re the tanks, I need to really go there and see what the matter is. I can see 3 fuel gauges, but the owner tells me only 44 USG. 20 USG more would bring the range to somewhere like 600-700 NM, with the tip tanks I'd be getting the 1000 NM I would be very happy with. (I actually looked at a Robin HR100 Royal a while back, which has 1200 NM range, but as Robin is bancrupt yet again, there is too many questions on that).

Best regards
AN2 Driver

[IRpilot2006]

What is the budget?

[AN2 Driver]

original target was around 25k Euros plus PDM's of 5-10k.

[vtails]

First off some of you would sarce a good pilot but lets talk about 47 model with steal center sections this is one I would think long and hard about but I have friends that are still flying them and I work on nothing but V35s(make not the model) just a term. I have 1950 B I am working on nothing but mods on it 1* canted wings 2* neg flaps speed windscreen gap sealed controll surfaces(even rudders) IO 520 TC with inter cooler blueprinted by myself and friends machine shop 3rd long window baggage tank 20gal canted tip tanks almost 100gals runs car and avgas NO this plane wouldnt be Legal ,EXP. center stack full ifr, I would say around here you could get a 35 cheaper than piper and the elec. prop has been gold,this was when it had E225( it used to have a crank)By far one of the all time aircraft for speed and fuel ,they do have some problems but we could get out the AD's and well you know how that goes,The A,B have the small tail as did the straight 35's,C,D,E had to have cuffs and doublers plates ,one mod I do is get rid of foot step and cable to nose gear,these planes are a good buy BUT take a 35 mec. with you and spend alot of time looking inside and out you could get ripped with any airplane,I think its great of you to look at 35's and yes a 33,v35tc a,b 36 would be great but now we are talking big money,if you think about it you can pick any A/C apart ,I like the little tails and there is alot of people you can visit and get info from and I could list alot of places to get parts from good people,I hope you get what you want no matter what mfg.I am not trying to make anyone upset I like the early models and I have a fun N3pup to play with so stay in the air as long as possible for one day none of us might have the right privlage to fly.. Also lets get to the mag skin issue only rudder are mag,, flaps and Alirons can be alum. and there are skins for rudders that can be found in alum.I know that this is posted late but hopefully someone will see what you do with a VTAIL.

[Big Pistons Forever]

AN 2 Driver. Did you end up buying the V tail ?

[AN2 Driver]

Hi,

not so far. Had a setback which required me to set other priorities temporarily. I will however get back to the issue of new wings shortly.

Thanks all of you.

Best regards

AN2 driver.