Combined Hearing and audiogram thread

[mooguy]

I sat their in depth medical on friday, to get told I had bad hearing damamge, and also becausie I had a cold, I could resit the audiogram someitme in future, however if I delay much longer will definitley not get a placement on next Flight attendant training course.

I've just turned 40 , and the doc told me I was in fine physical shape otherwise, 20/20 eyesight, good lungs, BP flexibility etc etc..........

At times he showed my my hearing appears to dip down to 65 which is unacceptable? I"m confused as I've been working as a flight attendant for the best part of 12 years, mainly overseas.

My question is- is there anything i can do to influence the audiogram, I fear,however feel its foolproof. Would I have any form of redress, that I could use to influece the outcome, seeing as I am looking at a refusal of employment after getting so far in the process. My day to day hearings fine, its just the high frequency tone is damaged-this is so annoying!

Anyone elso out there experience this, and what have they done? :ugh:

Thanks in advance

[Flyin'Dutch']

At the risk of stating the obvious, did they have a look and made sure there were not oodles of wax in your ears?

Beyond that go and see your GP so they can have a look. If it was due to a cold (not uncommon) then you may well be OK on a repeat test.

If not it may be worthwhile to go and see an ENT surgeon to ensure there is nothing wrong further up the line. A disqualifying hearing loss for a youngster is unusual and warrants a closer look.

Not sure what you mean by a redress of the situation?

Would have thought that they would struggle not to take you on if the hearing could be rectified with a hearing aid etc. They can probably justify that you would a reasonable amount of hearing to do the job as flight cabins are a fairly noisy environment.

They don't just want you to be able to hear what the punters and the tannoy says, they also have a duty to protect you from your hearing loss getting worse.

Two sides to the coin, as ever.

Best of luck.

FD

[mooguy]

:p just to reply to your last post. Basically I have, and this isnt the first time, failed an audiogram as my one on one hearing is great, but the softer sounds, high frequency is damamged.

Several year ago i got a job with aer lingus, and failed their audiogram. I went to see a top ENT freind of my father's, who wrote out a convincing letter to them, saying that were they worried that flying with them could further damage my hearing?? That sealed it for me, and I subsequently got the job, thats what I meant by a form of redress.

I went to an independt audiometrist the following week, and this time the results were much better and this seems to have pleased the QF doc-who knows tho, still havent been offered the job yet. Basically the second specialits audiogram did show I had high frequency damage, but no where near bad enought to need a hearing aid, and no-where near as bad as the QF one! So i stay away from Rock concerts, loud music etc these days, and hope for the best! :\

[Fliegenmong]

I am almost completly deaf (97%) right ear - everything else OK

Sat in their Audio box and just hit the button around when I thought I should hear something in my right ear

Was all I could do to keep myself from laughing my head off. The Audio Ladies face....

[SpiritTJB]

Greetings!
Im no doctor, but I got a tiny bit of personal experience.. My advice is that you try out the easy parts in the preavious posts before you do any of the more extreme things. Clearing out excessive wax and such is a good idea. Then simply:

Plug your ears in the morning of your next test-day. Silence and reduction in sounds around you will sharpen your hearing a lot! I used this trick in my military days due to all the noise and sounds around me..and it worked! Just remember to remove the plugs before you put on the audiometric headphones. :)

Best of Luck,
TJB

[fabbe92]

I don´t know man but I had a cold and a week after I flew with Ryanair. Man it was the moast painfull experience in my life. I couldn´t hear and it fellt like there was a knife in my ear or something. I am a strong person and I never cry but belive me, I wanted to cry there.

A feew weeks have past now and I want to go up for training but I still can´t pop my ear so I will have to whait.

I wouldn´t reccomend the flight if you arn´t sure. It could give you big problems. So go to a doctor even if there isn´t much time left.

:ok:

[Mohit_C]

I'm not in a very different situation. About over a month ago, almost two, I had a terrible cold and cough. Since then and till now I've had a blocked ear. Doctor thought it was sinusitis but the x-ray proved it wrong. I'm right now just using sprays and a tablet to try and make the mucus stuck on, possibly, the Eustachian tube liquid and cough it out but it doesn't seem to help. It does also cause a "ringing noise" in my ears.

[gingernut]

The worst that's going to happen is that you will burst an ear drum.......unlikely but a problem if it occurs.

The best case scenario......ride of a life time.


Hmmmm, I know what I'd do:}

[mrhorizontal]

Hello there! I just read your post - I know you posted it a while back but I could have wept!

Please get in touch - I've got to know how this worked out. I am in the same boat! :uhoh:

I've got an interview with Qantas but I also have very mild bilateral hearing loss from a bloody cold I had in 2004! I can't hear in the high end of the upper frequency region.

It has no effect on me day to day and I totally forget I even have a problem. I don't wear a hearing aid and the one I tried just annoyed me!

Did you get the job in the end? If you didn't, do you have any idea what Qantas' policy is on audiogram exclusion criteria? :confused:

Many thanks

[email protected]

[WishesToFly]

This is how it is:

I have had a history of hearing problems as a child and has been given many sets of grommets for my ears which has fallen out as i got older, i have 100% hearing in my left ear and 40% hearing in my right ear, when i blow my nose i get this dizziness but this is all caused from my bad ear (my left) im pretty certain that i will need another grommet in my ear as this is a 'balance' issue,

Im scared that the doctor will link this to vertigo for the time being until it gets sorted, and i know that vertigo doesnt go down well with a PPL medical,

If i can OVERCOME this hearing problem and prove that my hearing is good again after being fixed, will my history of hearing stop me from passing the hearing standards for the CLASS 2 medical (i only want to be a ppl, nothing more).

Just that i want to train for my PPL and cant fly solo / gain a PPL license without this medical certificate, i am in top notch health with everything exept this bad ear, which i know the ENT will sort out.

Or is my flying dream all over?

Does a medical history overide current health?

Thankyou

Alex

[WG774]

Do you have an ENT Surgeon that you feel comfortable with?

I would recommend the ENT Dept. at Essex County Hospital Lexden Rd - or - The Royal Throat, Nose + Ear hospital in King's Cross.

If you're happy with the current ENT, that's fine - but the 2 hospitals above will give you an accurate diagnosis and have a good reputation.

[WG774]

You guys need to put the word 'eustachian' into the search bar - there are many threads. If you don't have a history of tube problems and are struggling to clear an ear after an infection, ask your Dr for a 'mucolytic' - try a search on that term as well - there are a few to try, with minimal side effects.

[damo1089]

I was wondering if any of the pilots on here actively protect your hearing in loud environments, like concerts, festivals, airshows, etc? If your ears go bad, I would imagine attaining a class one medical would be harder or maybe even impossible?
I brought some musicians earplugs but they are too big and hurt my ears, I was thinking of getting custom ones molded to the shape of my ear.

[Di_Vosh]

Even when I was younger (old now :{ ) I used to wear earplugs at concerts, bands, etc.

Main reason then was that it used to sh1t me when I'd leave a concert and not being able to hear anything until I woke up the next day. I found that the only effect was that the music wasn't painful. (i.e. you could hear the same; just without the pain :ok:)

I found that the yellow foam ones were best; and if you cut them in half, no-one else knew you were wearing them (made it hard to get them out, though)

Many of my friends (same concerts) now have hearing difficulties, where my hearing is still very good.

DIVOSH!

[VH-XXX]

I've got some Speedo brand swimming ear-plugs which work well. They need to be moistioned before inserting though (no pun intended ;)) They go in quite deep and have a little "handle" to pull them out with.

Other than that pick up some of the foam ones (Bunnings perhaps) that you squash first then insert in your ear. They usually have a daggy plastic cord on them but you can just cut that off.

Be weary of wearing flouro coloured plugs to a concert at night as the UV/Blacklight will make them glow and you'll look like a tool.

[Water Wings]

I was once told this about NZ. Not a single Pilot in NZ has ever had their medical pulled based solely on hearing loss. Heck I've meet one pilot who could barely hear someone speak to him across the room but had no probs in the aircraft (just turn up the headset volume :ok:)

[galaxy flyer]

I say protect your hearing....not to keep your medical. In old age, you don't want your wife and relatives shouting at you OR, worse, talking about you--in front of you. Very depressing thought.

GF

[Fantome]

A DC-3 skipper with MMA lost his, he said, hanging his head out of his Mustang during run ups in his RAAF Korean days. F/O didn't need his headset. He heard everything through the captain's.

[Q300]

I agree with Galaxy Flyer - do it for your ears, not your license (although if it were to stop you losing the license, that's an added benefit). The number of people who aren't that old, but have hearing loss because they didn't bother to protect their ears is kind of sad in a way. But you don't have to wear earmuffs everywhere of course.

[Deaf]

My noise deafness is bad enough that on initial Class 1 I got a letter from Dr Ruth? at the dept advising me to consider a career outside aviation. Skip forward a quarter of a century and a phone call to a Dr in Canberra got the response "well you can hear me can't you?".

As mentioned modern radios/intercoms have a knob(s) which fixes the problem

On the positive side noise deafness affects mainly the frequencies of:
- angry adult female
- screaming babies/kids
- wife talking about an expensive thing that (from the pictures) goes in the ear and uses batteries

[the wizard of auz]

I know of a lady who whilst working for a Darwin operator was issued with the fluro earplugs for in the cockpit use.
Apparently they taste terrible and even though they look like lollies, shouldn't be eaten. :E Hey ya Lou. you still out there?.

[The Green Goblin]

I know of a lady who whilst working for a Darwin operator was issued with the fluro earplugs for in the cockpit use.
Apparently they taste terrible and even though they look like lollies, shouldn't be eaten.

Wasn't the same one who flew a 210 to an 'outport' location with a tow bar still attached to the nose wheel! taxied in after an uneventful landing without realizing the mistake until a line of junior pilots stood staring in disbelief at the said 210 :ok:

[neville_nobody]

Boys harden up! If its to loud ya too old!

Well you go tell that to my mate's brother who had permanent hearing loss and tinnitus at the ripe old age of 21 from listening to music too loud!!!

Going to the odd concert isn't going to damage your hearing. It's the stuff you are exposed to every day that is the problem. Loud music on headphones and high noise work places are bigger problems.

[ReverseFlight]

Tinnitus is not well understood and one of the theories is that it can be brought about by stress.

The moral of the story is : no matter whether it is your job, the money, the nagging family etc, it doesn't pay to get stressed.

[tmpffisch]

damo1089, I well and truely understand where you're coming from. As the one responsible for loud music at concerts (as a sound engineer) I take hearing protection pretty seriously. You're not making a bad move by getting moulded plugs.

Mine were stolen last month (who'd want to wear someone elses earplugs anyway) so I've moved to generic ER20's, which you can get in a 'baby blue' size which may solve your problem. -
I thought my initial Class 1 would be difficult because I seem to leave a bit of hearing at every gig I work at (if I'm not wearing plugs), but even with tinnitusthe audiologist said I had no concernable hearing loss. I'm way more paranoid about protection now because of my class 1 though.

[DeltaT]

Do a search on the internet, I bought some from Sweden, especially for noise, made of 'clear' rubber so they are not very noticeable. -These ones came in a pouch to help keep them clean when not in use.
If you want to go el cheapo, look through the range of swimmers ear plugs, go to a variety of chemists and sports shops, there are some very light pink coloured/skin colour ones that are extremely hard to see, mainly as they fit a small way in the ear canal and sit flush on the outside rather than a sticky out bit to pull for removal. They are prone to falling out if you don't get them in correctly.
After being to a nightclub/pub etc without ear plugs, and your ears are ringing, its too late, that is a sign damage has been done.

[lemel]

Bashing around in twin pistons I used to wear ear plugs under my headset. I also know of guys who have flown loud turbo props that wear ear plugs under their headset. The reason for it is that we are exposed to a loud environment on a regular basis

I dont know about wearing ear plugs to a concert though. I wouldn't think that you could go often enough to cause any serious damage.

I think the "Boys harden up" line should stand.

[mcgrath50]

Wouldn't the earplugs dull the sound coming out of the headset as well?

Similarly at concerts wouldn't it stop the sound from getting in?

While were at it what brand/type does everyone recommend?

[VH-XXX]

Sorry but going to a concert WILL damage your hearing. Every little bit does damage. Later on in life you'll very much regret not looking after your ears when you were young - I do, and I'm barely over 30. You should even consider wearing ear plugs under your headset in any aircraft, twin or single, you might be surprised how much more comfortable it is, particularly if you are listening to light music through your headset.

[tmpffisch]

Since it seems the mods aren't going to approve my first post, I'll try again.

I work as a sound engineer, which is funding my CPL. Hearing protection has always been important because of my job, and often I do leave a little bit of my hearing at every gig I do.

That said, even with constant tinnitis, I passed my class 1 hearing tests fine, with no "concernable hearing loss".

Musician earplugs are the way to go, with decent ones providing even frequency response from 50hz-16khz. Moulded ones are fantastic and very comfortable, but some :mad: stole mine last month (who'd wear someone elses earplugs anyway) so I'm back to generic ones. The model I'd recommend are called ER20's from Etymotic . There's a few Australian dealers, give ER20 a search on eBay and you'll find the generic ones, or ask your audiologist at your next medical renewal and they'll take a mould and get some made for ya.

[Scooby-Doo]

Protect your hearing no matter what

[2close]

Noise Induced Hearing Loss (NIHL) is insiduous, gradual and incurable.

Once it's gone that's it, it's gone.

In the UK, the Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005 were introduced in early 2006 and significantly reduced maximum exposure levels, which apply not only to employees (flight, cabin and ground crew) but also to visitors (passengers) to company premises (aircraft).

Any exposure exceeding these limits could result in NIHL.

However, on short - medium haul flights it should not be a significant issue as time weighted averages would probably not exceed maximum exposure levels but long haul could be different, especially for the more frequent flyers, i.e. long haul flight and cabin crew.

[Fokkerwokker]

Worth a look if you are UK based/employed:

The Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051643.htm#4)

[WishesToFly]

Why are hearing standards so strict for a class 1 medical?

Is it that ATC talk really quietly or something?

If you have a slight loss in 1 ear for example surely couldnt you just wear amplified headgear to just 'notch up' the sound abit? Why should this ground a pilot?

Cheers,

Alex

[BelArgUSA]

If "future A-380 captains" would stop listening to their rap music with these earphones, at a 120 dB level, from age 12 until age 18, maybe they would preserve their eardrums and be able to pass Class 1 hearing tests.
xxx
:}
Happy contrails

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

It's not that they are particularly strict. Anyone with normal hearing should pass with no trouble. However, as already stated, lots of people abuse their hearing with loud music, etc., and it's fairly important for pilots and controllers to have at least normal hearing.

[Bad medicine]

Gday all,

As with some of the other popular topics, we've merged a lot of the threads here for easier searching.

Cheers,

BM

[Old 'Un]

Take tmpffisch's advice, if it's not already too late. S/He's working in one of the industries where hearing loss is an occupational hazard. I've known several techies in that line of work who have had to find other employment as they could no longer subjectively balance an audio mix. Not a good way to finish a career.

I have an audio test about every couple of years and my hearing is almost as sensitive as it should be for a 25 year old, with the exception that the response rolls off at about 15kHz. Hardly surprising given my age. Apart from that, my audiologist has complimented me on maintaining my hearing, adding that, sadly, a lot of 30 year olds would envy me.

I like hearing the 'dawn chorus' and the occasional passing Merlin or pair of P&Ws.

Protect your hearing and seek professional advice ASAP if you suspect any hearing loss or are getting a ringing in your ear/s. That the best advice I can give.

As 2close said "Once it's gone that's it, it's gone." That means: forever.

Le Vieux

[fabbe92]

Hello! I can remember that I saw a toppic about a guy that had problems with popping his ears and a black hawk helicopter:} But I can´t find it anymore, maybe I am blind.

Anyhow I will just post my question here. I had the same problem during newyears when I flew with Ryanair. When we started to dive I couldn´t presurise my right ear and it fellt like a knife in my ear. Never had that paine in my life before. I went to the doctor and he gave me medication and then I returned after a month and he said that the ear looked fine. I forgot to ask him if I could fly again tough. I still can´t pop my right ear and I have a PPL flight in the PA28 on sunday. Do I dear to go? I don´t want any brooken drums since I want to become a airliner pilot.

[White Otter]

I think everybody has this problem at some point. PPL shouldn't matter too much as you're only going up to something like 3000ft whereas the pressure in an airliner is 8000ft (though obviously I'm not a doctor so its up to you).

Strangely though I can now pop my ears my moving something in them (hear a little clicking sound) so thats nice to have if not a little odd (I can also move my ears so maybe its related to that).

[shgsaint]

Hi chaps,

I've recently noticed that when I swallow, move air about up my wind pipe to the back of my throat and move my jaw / head side to side, me left ear cracks. I know about the Valsalva maneuver and swallowing generally helps equalise but the cracking seems 'odd'. Mr right ear doesn't crack at the same volume. I can hear it a bit but not as much as my left ear.

I've never really noticed it before and now I'm starting to panic! I'm soon to start training and don't want to risk it if I have something seriously wrong. I've had a couple of colds recently but don't think this is the cause as it even happens when I'm perfectly well.

There's no hearing loss and I can equalise without problems with exception to when I went diving once. I couldn't descend as quickly as other divers and had to dive at a much slower pace. When in aircraft however I'm generally fine. It usually feels a little uncomfortable when in the descent but nothing that I would consider incapcitating. Sometimes it feels a little tender but I only really notice the pain when I think about it. There certainly doesn't feel like any pressure or the sensation that I need to 'pop' the left ear. In fact I can 'pop it' on demand. Even if I don't need too due to the difference in air pressure. I think this is simply me manipulating my eustacian tubes and forcing them open so the pressure can equalises just like all pilots need to when descending.

Nothing was picked up or mentioned in my class 1 so I don't think it's serious. My worry is the fact that my left ear cracks much louder than my right. :confused:

Is this normal? Do your ears click at slightly different volumes?

I'll visit my GP if the problem persists or becomes painful but I wanted to get a general concensus of everyone else before I waste my GP's time.

Cheers,

SHG. :ok:

[Hugh Spencer]

Hoping that the moderators will allow me to mention that the course of action I first started way back in October is still serving me well. No medical interference or drugs, just a mechanical procedure for a minute or so, three or four times a day, as detailed in my previous entries.

[michaelflynn61]

Hi everyone, I have a query coming from a cabin crew perspective. I have scar tissue in my left ear from regular infections as a child (I am now 22). Recently had a n audiogram which revealed I have approx 40% loss in my left ear.

Currently flying with an airline who never asked about the problem any further though I did disclose it to them. I have never had any problems with my ears at work. At the moment looking into changing airline but my application has been put on hold by them because of this and they said I may need a hearing aid. I am awaiting an ENT appointment to see if there is anything that can be done.

I am wondering if there is a set standard for cabin crew aural requirements and if so what it is or who sets it? Or does it vary from airline to airline?

Any information anyone can give me on this would be greatly appreciated

[james ozzie]

I am new on this forum, so here goes.

I attended "The Who" in Brisbane last week (lots of grey ponytails and queues at the mens room...) and was amazed at the sound. Should I have been surprised! Although almost unbearably loud, it was very clear, unlike most live rock acts.

But the next day I felt poorly and I still have tinnitus 4 days later. (Townshend is pretty deaf, I gather.) As flyers or medicos who do audiograms on a regular basis, is there any anecdotal evidence of one-off big noises giving a permanent step loss in hearing? My own annual checks used to show a steady annual loss of acuity but I am not flying now so I don't get the checks.

It strikes me that if your livelihood depends on a flying medical, be mighty careful about attending rock concerts unprotected.

[Loose rivets]

Erm, yes. Even if you're not flying, tinnitus is tedious.

You'd have to be unlucky to get a lot of damage with one concert...I don't really know, but it sounds like the kind of place that I would pay not to go to...but, when I do get stuck with high noise levels, I'm to be seen with wet napkin bits sticking out of my ears. To hell with looking cool.

(The paper being wet, makes all the difference.)


There has been quite a bit about tinnitus on this forum, not least of all from me. My feeling is that you will have to wait and see.

Worst case, you learn to live with it. Best, it will fade with time. Up to the age of 65, I had good hearing, except where the whistle cut in at ( my measurements) 6,240cps. It fell like a stone at that point.

Be cautious about the use of antibiotics. Some seemingly can make it worse, or even cause it. Tetracycline I believe is the worst offender.

[poss]

There are many factors that contribute to Tinnitus, colds and ear infactions been common ones and after a gig, well that depends on where abouts you was stood. If it hasn't gone in a week or so go to the doctors.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The obvious answer is to use some sort of ear defender, whether ear plugs or the "headphone" variety which I always wear at air shows.

I've had a hearing loss most of my life which the medics attributed to shooting when I was an ATC cadet - no ear defenders in those days.

[tmpffisch]

Here's one for ya James. I work for the sound company that is touring with The Who, while I finish my flight training. Loud environments are definatly an occupational hazard.

Even with constant tinnitus, passing a class 1 audio exam wasn't a problem. That said, I'm rather cautious about what I expose my hearing to, and try to protect it as much as I can (which can be very difficult).

"is there any anecdotal evidence of one-off big noises giving a permanent step loss in hearing"? Yes. I once spent an hour wedged between a stage and crowd barrier with 10 other guys, trying to prevent it moving forward from a unruly crowd....with 3 trumpet players playing 1 meter from one of my ears....it's never been the same since.

[Loose rivets]

I suddenly recalled my father's case. You might say that his was a one-time exposure to noise, though rather extreme.

He was having a fairly good war by all accounts. Somewhere up north. He didn't get hit by a bomb, but a shed. The said building, - that he was in or near - blew up. He got tinnitus at that moment.

They sent him off to Edinburgh to see a 'Brain Specialist', so one of his letters said. What a waste of time. Even then, they would have known what was going on - and that there was no treatment for tinnitus.

[james ozzie]

Thank you folks for the interesting comments & contributions

[HighHeeled-FA]

James,

I'm a regular at concerts. I always wear earplugs. They are quite inconspicuous and you cant even see them in the dark.

Also the music sounds 1000 times better with them in. Sounds almost like you are listening to a CD.

And it saves your hearing which is a bonus.

[henry crun]

If, as this thread suggests, the audience is being deafened if they don't wear ear plugs, why do those on stage play so loud ?

[tmpffisch]

henry, you're opening a bag of worms there. Drums are naturally loud, and each muso wants to hear their instrument a little louder than they can hear the rest of the band, so they can 'lock in'. Thus, everyone continues to turn up.

Music also naturally sounds better loud, and to get a good even mix, it's a matter of having the PA louder than the sound coming off stage.
Generally punters should be able to endure 2 hours without hearing damage, but ringing ears while they go to bed happens.

Concerts do sound better with earplugs in, especially if they're properly designed earplugs for even frequency response. The reason it sounds better with them in is because it helps reduce the sound of reflections of soundwaves bouncing of walls, seats, etc so you're hearing the direct sound, without any reverberation.

A lot of technical advancements have occured in the past few years to getting even frequency response and coverage out of concert PA systems, which slightly reduces the possiblility of hearing damage by perhaps not being blasted with painful frequencies such as 2khz depending on where you're standing, however efficiency of speakers and amplifiers have also improved, increasing SPL:distance ratios.

[screwballburling]

Take it from me. Have an ear vacum before an audiogram!!

[mach.865]

I'm 56 years old and have slight hearing impairment in one ear. Does anyone know of what the JAR regulations state regarding hearing aids? Can one still hold a ATPL if a hearing aid is worn for the impaired ear?

[Mike12421]

I'm 56 years old and have slight hearing impairment in one ear. Does anyone know of what the JAR regulations state regarding hearing aids? Can one still hold a ATPL if a hearing aid is worn for the impaired ear?


I would also like to know the answer to this (as I may have to use it as a last resort.)


I am currently a serving Police Officer, but I dream of one day holding an ATPL. I am in the process of obtaining my PPL; however it is a slow process due to cost. Anyway, I obtained my Class 2 medical 2-3 years ago with no problems, especially none with my hearing. However, when I initially applied for the Police several years ago, I was told that my left ear was slightly below average, and so I had to re-take the hearing test a couple of weeks later (which I passed with no problems).

Fast forward to 2008, and I transferred to another force, and again had trouble with the hearing test. I was told that one of my ears was slightly below the acceptable limits, which I believe are as follows;
http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/officers/Medical_59-2004.pdf

Anyway, I was accepted and thought no more about it.

I have no trouble with conversations etc, and to be honest, if these tests had not pointed anything out, I wouldn't have thought I had a problem.

My right ear does have a feeling that it has a small amount of “pressure" inside, but I have had my ears cleaned, and they were found to have no wax. Also, (and this is the strangest bit), when I close my mouth and swollow then breath, 90% of the time I can hear my breathing in my right ear then goes when I open my mouth??

My problem is I don't want to go to my doctor, and have my possible "over-reaction" noted on file, but at the same time, I need to get something done. I don't know if it is just nerves when I take these tests or what, but can anyone help?

I was hoping to go to a "private" Audiologist (if that’s correct) in the Northwest area, Liverpool or even Manchester. I don't mind paying to have my mind put at rest or for some advice, just as long as it stays private. Can anyone suggest anywhere? A look on Google found the following;
audiologists, consultation and private hearing treatment in Manchester (http://www.alexandrahospital.co.uk/searchdirectory/a/audiologists.htm)

On a side note, I found these Class 1 requirements on another site;
The basic hearing test used throughout JAR-FCL 3 is the ability to hear conversational speech when tested with each ear at a distance of 2 metres from and with his back turned towards the AME. This test is done at every medical examination for both professional and private pilots. |
For professional pilots, and private pilots with an instrument rating, a further test called an audiogram is required. The audiogram is a test where you signify that you have heard sounds at different frequencies. Perfect hearing is measured as nil loss of hearing (0 decibel - 0 dB) at that particular frequency. Decreased hearing is shown as a decibel loss (10,20,30,40 decibels) at a particular frequency. The required hearing levels and the maximum allowable losses are:
35dB at 500Hz
35dB at 1000Hz
35dB at 2000Hz
50dB at 5000Hz
Thanks again.

[concordski]

Experience from being a drummer + other things...

Earplugs at gigs? Absolutely! If you only go to one a year then you might expect to soak up the abuse, but on a semi-regular basis - definitely. Ditto clubs and bars of a Friday - more than a few times a year and you are signing your own deaf certificate.

The RNID did work in nightclubs handing out earplugs/mini noise-meters though am sure it went over the heads of most. Now I won't set foot in one without some plugs.

Have heard some really narrow-minded opinions about 'how can you hear anything at all?' (you can, it isn't a vacuum) to 'I have a HNC in audio engineering and we were told all it does is physically stop the frequencies you can hear and still damages through the ones you can't' (what?!)

I used to work in pubs and for me, the noise was a greater risk than the passive smoke. It absolutely stuns me that bars in the UK are not required to offer protection to staff killing their senses. Smoking was phased out and noise in bars should be as well. Criminal. Ditto construction workers - hard working guys just wrecking their senses through ignorance or peer pressure.

Noise on the apron is to be feared and respected. I won't set foot outside the aircraft without some plugs, I even wear them under the headset, such is the noise on the intercom channel. Even ANR headsets give you an unpleasant 'hiss' which is directed straight into the ear. An ambient 320 cockpit is a surprisingly noisy place with all the cooling flow.

Real little hand-grenade this one. More should be done in the workplace to protect staff.

Having said all that it does seem subjective. I appreciate it is my little (big) bugbear and have met flying drummers that have beaten their kit every week for years with no protection that claim to feel no ill effect. I hope it doesn't creep up on them...

Listen safe please!

[ash506]

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has experience with being half deaf in one ear, for the medical class 1? It isn't completely deaf, just everything is quieter in that ear.

I read somewhere that the test is basically to ensure you can hear a conversation from 2 meters away, which I can easily do. The only real issue I have is pretty much unable to use a phone, or headphones (etc) only in that ear, it is just too quiet

(Unluckily for me, the only frequencies are "bad" are the ones used for normal speach...)

I will get a medical class 1 before doing any training further than for ppl, but was just wondering what the opinion in here would be.
thanks

[serenesuspense]

I am finally biting the bullet and checking out hearing aids. None of the providers seem to know anything about compatibility/interference with anr headsets. They say "buy them and try them". Anyone had any actual knowledge/experience with this? Thanks. (new member, private pilot)

[lckhdtrstr]

I'm a military pilot with some significant high frequency hearing loss. I've found it a great help to use custom made ear plugs (Etymotic Research ER-15s) under a normal headset. The ear plugs will reduce the ambient noise of the aircraft, and will allow a greater signal to noise ratio, increasing the clarity of speech on the radio and intercom. I have used this combination on a variety of fixed wing aircraft, and it not only makes it easier to hear, but also makes flight much less fatiguing.

I'm not sure if a hearing aid will make a huge difference if you are in a noisy cockpit, as it would amplify both the speech that you want to hear and the aircraft noise that you are trying to filter out.

[gordon field]

I have used digital hearing aids all day and for a number of years and soon got used to them. Due to feedback I always remove them when using a decent headset such a B.. X. Never have any other touble.

[flyfast39]

Too many variables. I have been flying over 54 years and am a senior AME (US)

ANR headsets have a certain frequency response that is optimum. So do digital hearing aids. My combination Bose X series and top of the line Phonak with optional remote control work well on cetain settings which takes some experimenting to find the right combination. It also depends on the environment; I fly mostly piston twins, warbirds (T-6) there dosen't seem to be as much problem in light jets, biz jets, etc.. My hearing loss (sensori-neural) is to high and mid tones and moderatally severe. Less severe loss can be corrected with just a headset and no hearing aids, just turn up the volume. Air crew have differing problems depending on company protocol and how they communicated with each other.

Your best bet is to find a well trained audiologist (Audiology degree & MS or PhD) take the specs of your headset with you and have him prescribe an appropriate hearing aid. This will only work if the audiologist dispenses more than one brand of aid as each aid has differing frequency response.

[stilton]

Anyone know their views on this condition ?

[michaelflynn61]

Ok, from some stuff I have been reading recently I am a little confused. I always thought that if you required a hearing aid you would not be allowed to become a pilot of any type (commercial or otherwise) yet some things I have read recently seem to be saying different.

Can anyone clear this up for me. Can pilots use hearing aids???

Many thanks.

[A330ETOPS]

I was working with a Manchester based captain last week who wore hearing aids. He told me it was to increase safety. His hearing is still good enough to satisfy an AME!

Whether you can wear an aid if your hearing is below standards, i'm not too sure....

[inner]

Hello

Lately i'm suffering my ears. It seems to be called tinnitus, the noises you hear which are not there. The cause is not determined yet.

I was wondering if there are pilots here who have the same problem and more important, can you loose your medical with that???

grtz

[Der absolute Hammer]

The onset can be quite sudden.
The causes seems to be unknown.
It may or may not be due to hours of headset flying, noise, gunshots etc.
It does not seem to have any medical significance.
It goes away and comes back.
There might be a certain degree of stress associated recurrence.
Sitting on the sea shore listening to the waves is unlikely to help it. Neither is firing shotguns indoors.
Get a check out with a decent ENT chap.
How would the AME know about it anyway unless you told him?
AFAIK it is not a disclosure item.
Hardly think it would affect a Class 1 -especially if you havea note from an ENT chap to say that all is well.
I am not a medical person. This brief is based on private experiences of a non voluptuous nature.
Of course-you may be about to enter The Twilight Zone.........

YouTube - The Twilight Zone: Nightmare At 20,000 Feet 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7yJl2mUN2U)

[Loose rivets]

There's been a lot of posts on this problem. Use the search entering the word tinnitus and this medical section.


In a mild case, the problem will show up only as a hearing loss around the frequency of the whistle - and this is what will show up on an aviation medical. But believe me, the hearing specialists that deal with pilots, are very used to high tone deafness. It rarely affect the pilot's ability to hear the RT, beacon identifying tones etc..

[inner]

ok tx for the reply. Seems i'm not the only one.

[AirfranceMan]

Hi, I'm just doing a bit of researching about pros and cons about becoming a pilot and I really do want to be a pilot although I do have an unanswered question which has been troubling me since I was interested in aviation: Can deaf or hearing impaired people become ATP?

[wbryce]

About 5 weeks ago I had a niggling ear problem, it just felt like their was an infection in one ear. I phoned GP and got an appointment (next available one was in 8 days time!!), by then the ear problem had sort of resolved itself so I cancelled it. The past few days I've come down with the cold and yesterday while watching TV the same ear started giving me problems again, but of a different nature from the previous ones, now its like the ear is 'blocked' as if I need to pop it or I'm constantly waiting for it to pop. giving the resulting loss of hearing. the feeling or sensation is similar to having water in that ear. Any suggestions as to what It could be? just worried because of the usual nonsense of waiting 5-10 days just to see you're GP here in the UK and I'm rostered to fly the next 5 days.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Hi Will.

If you've got a cold and blocked ears, then don't fly. It is as simple as that. Blocked ears are a common thing from a cold, it's just mucus usually that is blocking things up. It should clear up fairly quickly on it's own.

[Avitor]

I suggest you ask your GP to refer you to the ear specialists at your hospital.
I would add...urgently.

[poss]

It's quite possible you will need your ear(s) syringing but do not go flying... it will make the problem a lot worse as I found out when I decided to fly with a blocked ear up to 10,000 feet unpressurised.

[Bob the Doc]

Blocked ears during/just after a viral illness (cold, flu etc) is common and nothing to worry about long term. If you are unable to clear your ears then you should not fly in any situation where there may be pressure changes requiring you to clear your ears. Low level may be OK but any pressurised aircraft should be avoided. The main problem is that you only get ear pain on descent when it's too late to do anything about it!

Syringing ears will not help this sort of thing as the blockage is in the middle ear and syringing only treats the outer ear (as the eardrum seals one off from the other).

If symptoms do not settle after about a week/10 days after the viral illness has settled then you should probably see your GP. Likewise if the symptoms get worse.

Hope that helps

Bob

[wbryce]

Thanks for the replies and I hope everything is going ok with you SAS!

I managed an appointment today and basically as Bob says, doctor thinks the eustachian tube is blocked, the ear drums were ok, no wax issues, so its the middle ear. A course of antibiotics to cover any infection and some nasal spray to help unblock the eustachian tube, although my nasal passages were never blocked.

He advised me to regularly try the pinching/blowing technique, swallowing and steaming to help unblock the eustachian tube, if thats the cause.

[Hugh Spencer]

Middle ear/ eustachian tube blockage has been mentioned before. I sometimes suffer with it but less so since using a device called Eardoc, invented by an Israeli doctor. This battery operated device causes vibrations against the bone behind the ear to loosen the blockage. Look it up on line.

[frostbite]

I frequently wake up quite deaf in the morning but can usually clear or improve it by rotating the palm of my hands against my ears.

Am I correct in thinking this indicates wax rather than inner ear problem?

[WhiteFly]

Hey guys ,
I made a search in this forum but didnt really find much specific on my question.....

Various medication help but then it comes again many times even though im not flying I feel discomfort and blockage even though my nose being almost unblocked.

Any help would be appreciated

[RichM]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone will be able to help me on this one.

I've always wanted to be an airline pilot since my early teens. I'm now in my early twenties. My problem is that I'm deaf in one ear. I've done some research and haven't been able to find a yes or no answer as to whether or not I can obtain a class 1 medical in the UK.

The "CAA hearing standards" would suggest that I would not obtain a Class 1 medical. That said, I've read a report regarding an A320 captain who worked for BMI. (a British airline) He wore a BAHA hearing aid. This type of hearing aid is often used by those with a moderate degree of hearing loss. As a result, he would not meet the CAA class 1 medical standards as documented on their website. This contradicts what the CAA website says, and leaves me rather confused...

Personally, I don't see what the problem is here anyway. In many ways, the problem is comparable to those who wear glasses in order to correct poor eyesight. Sure, I can't hear in one ear, however, I would be wearing a headset which would amplify mono sound, and would feed all sound into my normal ear. In addition to this, I'm aware that most headsets cancel out background noise quite well.

I've found a lot of useless information online, which is why I've decided to come here and ask. Most of the time, the information online is with reference to "deaf pilots". I personally believe that the term is frequently misused. I never know whether they're referring to those who are profoundly deaf, or those who suffer from any degree of hearing loss. Afterall, if someone was blind in one eye, would you say that they're blind? Probably not...

If anyone could provide any information or thoughts on this, I would appreciate it. Please keep in mind that this is with reference to the CAA Class 1 medical.

Cheers

Rich

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I cannot speak with any authority, just from my own experience. I have a hearing loss which was attributed to rifle shooting in the Air Cadets without ear defenders. I passed my Initial Class 1 but my hearing deteriorated over the years and AMEs often mentioned that whilst it was OK for renewals it wouldn't get through an initial. I believe that something similar applies to eyesight. I.e you must achieve a certain standard in the first place but thereafter a certain amounht of deterioration can be acceptable.

Rather than wait for opinions on here why not telephone the medics at Gatwick. They are very helpful people and could probably provide an answer quite quickly.

Good luck.

[Endeavour]

Hi Rich

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.pprune.org/medical-health/313571-my-one-ear-doesnt-work-am-i-doomed.html

I have also sent you a PM.

Regards
Endeavour

[Senlac]

My hearing was good enough for a Class 1 medical, but have been aware of tinnitus for quite some time, so went to the doc. After referral, MRI and CT scans, it transpires I've got a form of brain tumour which needs sorting out.
Don't ignore it - get it checked.

[Zenj]

Hi,

Can someone do ab-initio flying training with just one side hearing ?

The other side is perfect.

[bmw-rated]

Hi!
I´m sorry, I don´t think you can get a medical with that issuse unfortunately.

JAA:

"Hearing - the AME will use a normal conversational voice 2 metres behind you. You should be able to hear that in each ear separately. If you wish to obtain an instrument rating as a private pilot, then you will need to meet the JAR Class 2 Instrument rating Standards."

FAA:
FAA Medical Standards / Hearing / Audio (http://www.leftseat.com/audio.htm)

Very sorry for you,
wish you all the best

[Rogal]

I know person who can hear only on one side and he is a flight instructor with JAR CPL licence. Keep trying

Regards

[Zenj]

Rogal,

Is there a way to get his contact ?
It's very important for me, it's for someone who wants to pursue flying

[DERG]

If ya can't hear in an ear it is pointless to continue with a career in aviation. Ya need both ears to hear your co-pilot and comms. As you get older your ears get hammered by altitude changes. Have to tell you to forget your ambition.

[john_tullamarine]

I have no medical competence but AN, at one stage, had a Boeing captain who developed an ear cancer (as I recall).

Surgery sorted out the cancer, as well as the hearing structures in that ear.

He ended up with an integrated earphone/hearing horn over the head from the functioning left ear so that he could hear crew conversations.

Suggest that you seek DAME advice re the present rules.

[Brian Abraham]

Similar to JT's post, a Captain I knew lost the hearing in his left ear and his medical was endorsed to fly left seat only.

[Hansard]

It's possible in some countries to obtain a PPL with hearing deficiencies but I don't know about commercial flying.

For worst case scenarios, have a look at Deaf Pilots Association (http://www.deafpilots.com)

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Just passed the Class 1 medical, 62 years and still kicking.

Over the last 10 years my audiogram result has become worse to such a degree that I can only just hear the first two tones.

Mostly ( I hope) due the the bad headset, loose fitting, telephone in the next office, and the general chit chat.

Just what is the standard that the kit, and location are maintained to.

Hope that next year, I can still manage a pass.

glf

[wantobe]

Nice to hear, congratz. =]

[Irish Coffee]

First off I will acknowlage that this thread should probably be in the health and medical section but I suspect that people involved in military aviation, the ones most likley to have encountered this problem, don't frequent it too often and I would quite like their opinions.
I was recently told by the in house doctor at my local Armed Forces Careers Office that I could not join the Fleet Air Arm, Army Air Corps or the Royal Air Force due to my failing of their hearing test. I can't remember the specifics (In hindsight i maybe should have written my results down) but to be a pilot or observer i needed to be 'group/grade' one in both ears. Whilst i was group/grade one in my right ear, my left ear was half way into group/grade two hearing. This came as a total shock to me because i have never had any problems with my hearing, to me my hearing is fine, and to be told that I cant be a pilot because of it was devestating.
I guess I'm asking for advice really. To me this seems like a silly rule, especially as I'm within the limits for joining as an Air Traffic Controller. I was just wondering how I can get around this or what I can do basically and whether anyone has ever heard of exceptions being made.

Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks

[Bob Viking]

My experience of hearing tests is varied. During some of them you can hear the background noise change when it transmits, which makes it ridiculously easy. On others, if you are sat in the supposedly soundproof box as someone is flying overhead, you'd struggle to hear recordings of a bull elephant's mating call through the headphones.
What I'm trying to get at is (and I'm not suggesting the AFCO has a rickety old hearing test although it is possible) along the lines of what Mick Strigg said. Give it a go and you may perform differently on the day.
BV:ok:
Oh, and well done for writing an eloquent and grammatically correct post. According to the grammar police on this site you're halfway to being an Officer already!

[kris15]

just a question i've got.
Whats the minium requirment for hearing?

[kris15]

Hey all

Im intending to do my PPL later this year then cpl later on and yesterday i was looking at the CAA nz website at the hearing requirments and there was something i dont understand
for exmaple i saw 35db at 2000 hz.

i think that db means the level of hearing but what does the hz part mean?

Cheers

[pilotmike]

dB is decibel, a measure of 'loudness', or more strictly, power. The figure of 35dB represents the amount of hearing loss, effectively a raised hearing threshold at a specific frequency.

Hz is Hertz, or frequency in cycles per second. Hearing is usually measured at specific frequencies of pure tones, with different limits for allowable loss tailored to match human hearing sensitivity.

To help you, Middle C on a piano is aprox. 250Hz and is considered a 'low to mid' note, 1000Hz or 1 kHz is 2 octaves above that, and is considered a 'mid' frequency. 4kHz or higher is 2 more octaves higher in pitch, and is considered 'high frequency', the region where 'Ts' and 'Ss' consonants are formed. These are the frequencies which are most usually lost first in any hearing loss. This causes loss of detail in the sounds or speech which can be understood, leading to a muffled or unclear sound.

A typical hearing test would cover discrete frequencies across the audible range from 125 Hz to 8000Hz.

[iranair777]

Just had my class one done yesterday and apart from the hearing test, I passed everything. Quite surprising really considering I have never had any hearing problems. The AME did say though that it isnt a big deal and unless there is a physical problem with your ear (to which I have to have it checked at the hospital), you can get around it by doing something along the lines of getting a class 2 then upgrading I think?

[Jerry Lee]

Do you have any restrictiond with your 1^ Class due this problem?

[Maverick25]

Normally when do we do a Class 1 medical test ?

[747aus]

does anyone know of or have expieriences pilots with hearing loss and still being able to hold a class 1 med? i have a moderate hearing loss mostly at high frequency. i can hear a standard voice easilly

[AvMed.IN]

Considering that the reduced hearing you are referring to, is due to aging (aka presbyacusis), a loss of 35 dBA and 50 dBA is considered acceptable for lower (500, 1000 and 2000 Hz) and higher (3000Hz) respectively.

In case of loss higher than the figures stated above, an experienced pilot may be considered fit in case he has 'normal' hearing against a background noise akin to cockpit noise. This can be tested by speech discrimination lab or may even be conducted in flight.

hope it helps!

[Bullethead]

G'day 747aus,

Have a look here mate, it is a link to the DAME handbook and has got all the info you need.

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Designated Aviation Medical Examiner's Handbook (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_91302)

Regards,
BH.

[BritishGuy]

I have a similar problem. I've passed all phases of the interview with a mid-eastern airline and apparently I've been told that in my left ear I have moderate hearing loss (up to 60dbs I think the Dr said). I didn't realize it was so bad as I fly at the moment for an airline on my FAA license and though I've felt my left ear is weak, I can still hear from it.

Anyway, from the UAE GCAA, do I have any hope of passing an Initial Class one medical or not?

[euromember]

For info read this JAA page.

http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/JAA%20Manual%20of%20Civil%20Aviation%20Medicine%20Amdt%206.p df

[aviatron]

Hi
I recently got my CPL and with my medical coming up I decided to do a mock Hearing test because last year the audiogram showed a slight hearing loss and my Class 1 medical certificate states I should use ear plugs in noisy environment.
Well the hearing test shows that my hearing loss has increased. I can only hear sounds higher than 55 dB between 4kHz and 8kHz in both the ears but my hearing is in normal range upto 3kHz.
This news has been a big shocker to me..... and just want to know what are going to be the consequences of being in this situation?:sad:
Would it be possible to continue as a CPL holder?

[Loose rivets]

Protect your hearing at all times. Even cinemas are dangerous these days. I carry ear plugs anywhere there might be significant noise.

Even in aircraft, I plug my ears slightly, then turn up the volume a little bit. It really does help the signal to noise ratio.

Right now, you have hearing at the important range for flying.

I feel you should see a specialist. There might be some infection that's treatable.

Do you have any high frequency whistle/tinnitus? Any vertigo? (lateral visual effect.)

[aviatron]

Thank you for the reply Loose Rivets, I am taking all the necessary precautions to protect my hearing and not suffering from tinnitus. I have nasty cold which blocks my eustachian tube almost all day everyday. Do you know of any instances where people have recovered from High frequency hearing loss?

[homonculus]

Hearing loss with age is normal, especially high frequency. It rarely risks your medical provided you can hear the radio

But you cant have a permanent cold. You may well have otitis media or glue ear - go see your GP who can look in your ear and instantly diagnose it. Treatment is simple

Most AMEs look in the ear before doing an audiogram and possibly wouldnt go ahead until you are treated anyhow!

[Takeoff53]

Since years I have a problem with my hearing and the last test was not looking very good. However, two days ago I got my EASA class 1 medical but the doctor was more then gentle. Next week I have to go for my FAA class 2 and I hope this AME (I do not know him) is as well a decent chap.

Getting 60 this year I would like to have a chance to keep my EASA and FAA tickets for another 5 years but the chances regarding my hearing are against. The ENT doc means, that I should slowly start to consider hearing aids and still refusing this mentally, longer term I see no other way around. It's not only the flying, conversations in a reverberating room with a group of people and addtional background noise is getting a challenge more and more.

The regulation (EASA and FAA) allow hearing aids for pilots. Does anyone in the community here fly with hearing aids? Any inputs what to look for? Thanks for any advice!

[Takeoff53]

Well, this thread got 239 hits until now but it looks like no other pilot in the community has a hearing aid or related problems?

A new posting came up regarding tinnitus, which goes a little bit in the same direction I have a mild form tinnitus and the good side of a hearing aid would be, the (my!) tinnitus could be treated with a hearing aid.

Tomorrow my next medical check for the FFA medical is up:eek:

[Takeoff53]

FAA medical (Class 2) is done, whispered speech test was achievable. One more year but I have to find a solution.

[airsmiles]

I'm not a pilot but have been wearing hearing aids since I was 19, after I was ill. Out of interest, why are you reticent about trying them?

[Takeoff53]

To accept glasses to correct the eyesight is common but with hearing aids it's a different story. I guess this is a huge step towards getting old and/or the feeling to be handicapped. And I assume, it's not as convenient to use like glasses? Glasses you may take off in a second when needed but how about hearing aids?

[Bohh]

Hello everyone.

I am 21 year old guy who currently is studying business management degree in uni. However after my degree is finished I am planning to work hard, save money and try to seek career in aviation. Being pilot is only thing I ever wanted to be. However it is very big investment for me and I have some concerns about my hearing.

Back story: when I was 16-17 years old I was stupid enough to blast ~150 rounds out of 9mm pistol without any sort of hearing protection. After that I realised I couldn't hear at all with my left hear and I was feeling dizzy, unbalanced. This one evening of stupidity was enough for me to get ear nerves inflammation in my left ear which was caused by "acoustic trauma". They hospitalized me and managed to get back 90% of my hearing. Balance is all good too. I ended up with loss of hearing in higher frequencies and constant high pitch ringing in my left ear.

Now I became almost paranoid about my hearing. I always have pair of ear plugs in my wallet in case I go to some noisy place.

Now from what I understand I am still eligible for first class medical. Here is my audiogram I did with iphone. I know it is not 100% accurate but it is very close to the audiogram I have from the doc.

http://i.imgur.com/GzHb1Ig.png

However I am concerned about the future. From what I heard pilot loose hearing constantly because of constant noise. I am afraid that after couple of years I will loose my hearing and will no longer be eligible to fly.

So I have 3 basic questions:
1) Am I still eligible for 1st class medical? Will my slight loss of hearing and tinnitus can be a barrier?
2) How likely is it that I will loose such portion of my hearing while flying that I will no longer be eligible for class 1 medical?
3) Is there any special ways to protect my weaker ear while flying commercially in the aircraft? Do airline companies allow to use your own good noise cancelling headsets while flying a commercial liner?

Thank you very much
Sincerely,
Paul

[cavortingcheetah]

Here's an answer from a pilot who has, so far, just managed to avoid having to have a hearing aid shoved into the bottom of a flight bag.
South African Class 1 rules prevail here, no idea about Australian rules.
1. The tinnitus is not a medical consideration per se and if the required standard for a Class 1 can be met with the wearing of a hearing aid then that would satisfy the authority.
2. Hearing is likely to deteriorate in the cockpit environment at a faster rate than were you working in a public library. You should perhaps consider loss of licence insurance although hearing might be excluded from such cover.
3. Airlines do not generally seem to like pilots using their own headsets. Interference between headsets in the cockpit can cause problems of communication. Expect the response to be negative.
I would suggest that you get grasp the nettle firmly in both hands and get yourself an initial Class 1 medical check. I suppose it would cost a couple of hundred dollars but it may lay to rest your concerns, one way or the other.
Alternatively, you could find an AME approved for Private Pilot medicals and do one of those. It seems reasonable to suppose that any half decent AME would know whether your present hearing capabilities would preclude a Class 1.
Here's something from England.

Noise & Communication on the Flt Deck (http://aeromedical.org/Articles/NIHL.html)

[742]

I am a pilot, not a medical professional, and I am locatedin the United States.

With that said, cavortingcheetah’s advice fits what I wouldoffer, with the exception that my experience has been that my various employershave never cared about what headset I used. A bigger problem over the years has been fellow pilots who are unwillingto use the intercom, and want the inboard ear “open” so we can yell back andforth. Grrrrr.

IMO the headset issue comes down to culture, both companyand country. On the upside the youngerpilots seem to be smarter about this issue and are more likely to carry a goodheadset and use the intercom, so the future is promising.

All of which boils down to “it varies” as the answer to yourheadset question. But a workaround withcompany headsets (which always seem to be cheap) is foam earplugs and justcrank the volume up a bit.

[obgraham]

Along the lines of what Cheetah said, here is the way a lot of us on US chat boards advise prospective pilots wondering about medical problems:

Find a local AME, preferably one with lots of Class I experience, make an appointment for a medical consultation and present the matter to him/her for his evaluation/opinion. Do NOT request an actual medical certification, and do NOT start to fill in the application form.

Once you have his opinion, for which you paid him, you are in a better position to decide on your investment in training.

It seems likely a similar plan would work in Oz, but of that I am not certain.

[AQIS Boigu]

I agree with the above recommendation...

When I wanted to start my career I did exactly the same with my problem (quite frankly every GP told me that I would never be able to fly) - I sat down with an AME and explained the situation; he sent me to a specialist and it came back good...only then we started the official certification process and I passed...started in GA and many years later I am flying a wide body...in your case you might pass the CASA hearing test without any problems anyway...only an AME would know.

One thing I also learnt is that particularly GPs don't know **** about anything more complicated than cough and flu - hence there are specialists.

Also please keep in mind that the AME only gathers information and passes it on to CASA for the certification, also CASA don't have a lot of specialists in their office either - they normally just rely on external info as well...and one more last advice - don't lie on the form but don't volunteer too much information either if you know what I mean.

Good luck...PM if you got more questions...

[Bohh]

thank you for all of your replies. Just to clarify- can you use ear plugs inside of a cockpit?

[cavortingcheetah]

Probably not unless your medical certificate is endorsed for the compulsory wearing of ear plugs and certainly not if your captain objected to a first officer flying with stoppers in his ears.

[AC033]

I've always dreamed as everyone here has I'm sure, of flying commercially. I do have a hearing loss that is corrected to "normal" hearing limits. I have a Cat 3 Medical with the use of a hearing aid, I don't have any problems hearing the ATC or Instructor while on the ground or in-flight. My question is, would Transport Canada allow me to get a Cat 1 medical and fly commercially?

[VFR-Norway]

Good question. I did the same class 3 in Canada in 2010, and was unsecure if i was gonna do the class1 at the same time, due my hearing loss too.

When I returned back home to Norway later, I booked a class 1 medical FAA, and my hearing-test was only to stand face to wall from the doctor, reapeating his words, and it was all good!

To do the JAR-FCL -medic, it's really pricy,m but you can pay seperatly for the hearing-test if you think that will be an issue, so that you don't have to pay for the whole test if you fail the hearing test...

Good luck!

[Gulfstreamaviator]

In theory for a Class 1 medical, the examiner conducts an audiogram test, which is conducted unaided.

The chances of you passing this test are NIL. It is almost impossible to get a pass using the supplied headset, ( ww2 bomber technology).

The FAA has a logical and practical standard for initial and renewal, which is easily attainable.

Glf

[Mike 75]

Hello, my name is Michael Vincent, and this is my very first post here at PPRuNe. I have a few questions and concerns regarding the hearing standards for airlines. I am profoundly deaf in my left ear and cannot hear out of it. My right ear is tip top shape. As a matter of fact, nobody can actually tell I'm deaf in one ear until I tell them personally. Regarding this, is it possible that I can get hired as a profressional pilot?

[Mike 75]

So I still have a shot at flying commercially??

[cp35]

Hearing is out of limits, so have to have a functional hearing test and submit the form, is this necessary for every revalidation/renewal or two yearly.

[EIPCW]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help regarding the renewal of a class 1 medical.

I've been basically refused the issue of a medical cert as my right ear has dropped out of the limitations for certification.

I have had ongoing problems with my ears from a young age which I have always been up front with when having my medicals. I do have a perforation in my right ear which will require surgery to fix.

Quote from CAA medical department

"For only revalidation or renewal, greater hearing loss can be recertified following demonstrated satisfactory functional hearing ability.
My question is, should I not still be issued a class 1 medical once I can"

Should I still not be issued my class 1 once I can demonstrate above?

Any advice would be much appreciated,
Paul

[gemini76]

Unless things have changed recently, following refusal of Class 1 certification you should receive a letter from the Aeromedical Dept. requesting a "Functional Hearing Assessment", after which your Class 1 will have the limitation "SSLFHA - Special restriction as specified :- Functional Hearing Assessment Required within 3 months of renewal/revalidation medical"
See CAA application form SRG1205 issue 3 for details, which should be completed by a Training Captain or CFI.
A quick trip in a C152 with a local CFI will do the trick!
Hope this helps.

[Parson]

I'm surprised your AME hasn't helped you sort this out? I believe the functional hearing assessment is based on your current operational flying environment. So if you are flying professionally, then your employer would do it. If not, as gemini says, a flight with a local CFI should suffice.

[Parson]

It is annual I believe but your AME should be able to advise

[EIPCW]

Thanks guys, I have emailed my AME stating all this. Hopefully I get a positive response

[Antonio1]

Hello
Is there any pilot with otosclerosis who went through stapedectomy or stapedotomy?
If yes, how long before you get your first class medical and start flying again?

[EIPCW]

Interested to know this myself as I require a similar procedure. I am however waiting to hear back from the CAA whether it is required surgery before renewing my medical. I am hoping I can fly with the hope of getting this surgery some time in the future

[joseghamby]

About 2 months ago when I was going to sleep I noticed a ringing in my left ear. I considered it easily, but that was there until the morning. I started to feel a fullness and slight hearing loss from that day and obviously, I thought it was wax and tried ear drops. I was still experiencing the same problem even after a week and I consulted a doctor. He said me I had a slight outside ear contamination and gave me a few drops for that and eustachian tube dysfunction as well. Apparently it was the eustachian tube dysfunction which caused the ringing. I had drops and it was alright, yet after a few days it began again and this time it was appalling. Consistent beeping and ringing sound and the filled ear made me insane. Yesterday I had an appointment with an audiologist at Westside audiology and he found my eustachian tube got plugged and it is almost closed now. So he suggested hearing aid for the time till the treatment wraps up. I saw some models of hearing aids - and I truly stunned this little instrument can recuperate such an irritating issue. Does hearing aid really work? I don’t wanna take a risk and can you people please suggest me?

[Winnerhofer]

Tinnitus
Had this for 6 months in 2015!
Took forever to go!
Used heavy-duty cortisone nasal sprays and oral cortisone.
Had ears cleaned, took all anti-biotic and and anti-mycotic drops and sprays.
Be patient you'll be ok but it will take at least 6 months!!!
Try to see an osteopath or chiropractor which may help by checking your jaw tension.
It could be dental so get your occlsusion checked by an orthodentist.
See another ORL (ENT) specialist.
One other thing: could be reflux related to food intolerances which may be the cause.
Try cutting out dairy produce and see if it works.
If not go see an immunoallergist to test for:
DAO, Tg, T3, T4, TSH, IgA, IgE.
Remember the cause of this is stress and it is psychosomatic.

[Radgirl]

Winnerhoffer will give you a massive bill but little else

joseghamby (http://www.pprune.org/members/455311-joseghamby) - the eustacian tube runs from the MIDDLE ear (inside the ear drum) to the throat. It gets swollen with infection and closes up. This is otitis media.

Ear drops outside the eardrum will treat otitis externa - infection of the ear canal - but cant pass into the middle ear.

The symptoms of otitis media are normally reduced hearing and fullness of the ear. The conventional treatment for middle ear issues is antihistamines and antibiotics. Some people have pain and need pain killers.

So if your symptoms dont settle go back and see your doctor, or ask to be referred to an ENT surgeon. A hearing aid wont clear it up and normally isnt needed

Good luck

[Radgirl]

'Wrong' Winnerhoffer. Please please understand if the cause if otitis media it needs to be treated to prevent other issues.

[Loose rivets]

Just when I'd got my back operated on, and my retina peeled, my hearing's gone all muffled. Had to press the GP to get to see a specialist, but he, the specialist, says it's pressure in the cochlea and they're not quite sure what causes it.

I was so depressed when I got home I rummaged though the medicine cupboard and found half a course of Cefalexin - just about in date, though it had a pungent smell when liberated from the plastic.

The logic of this was the feeling I get when making some sounds - it's as though I'm causing pressure on the eardrum from the middle ear. It suddenly pushes out. So, a glue ear or some-such. I hasten to add I did read up for many sessions.

The bloke at the hospital took a quick look in the outer ear and decided there was no sign of infection. That was one hell of a quick diagnosis to risk my hearing on.

The thing is, I got a very significant improvement within 36 hours and could hear quite well again. But, one of the side-effects of this AB is the trots. Suddenly it was worse than Picolax and a lot more painful. I gave up taking the AB, but now the hearing is very poor again - I would love to have taken at least four days of it which would have given more ammo to pester for an urgent appointment. Now of course I've probably made the infection worse.

Absolutely screwed by this as it takes weeks to get to see a doctor and it's taken months to get the see the specialist. In the meantime the first course of action was to get a hearing check and a pair of hearing aids. I kept saying that when it's in a good phase, my hearing is fairly good, and it's not loss of hearing, but a total muffled sound that just gets louder with the aids.

Age 76, hearing loss about normal for age. Normally good becoming muffled intermittently. The bad times increasing in frequency.

Anyone with relevant knowledge? Please don't tell me about self-medicating. It's like a third world country down hear with 2, occasionally 3 doctors working like hell where 7 was the norm - and that was before the last population increase. I hate to pester them, but this has pretty well been the final thing for 24 hours a day isolation from any social interaction.

[Density]

Hi

I am hoping for someone to assist me, particularly if familiar with CASA in Australia. I have profound deafness in my left ear due to an autoimmune disease. My specialists are confident that it is conductive and if they insert grommet into the ear they believe my hearing will be restored after draining the fluid. Is the flying with grommet tubes permitted?

Secondly from the disease I also have some narrowing of my trachea. Is there any restriction on this and what if I require to have surgery to expand my trachea if it narrows more??

[Radgirl]

Sorry Density, but your post is confusing. A grommet is a small washer placed in the eardrum so the fluid behind the drum in the middle ear can escape. It is due to failure of the drainage tube / chronic infection etc.

Autoimmune disease includes many illnesses. Deafness is normally from the inner ear

It suggests you have two separate problems, so you need to discuss this with your ENT surgeon to clarify and if so which is causing what !!! I doubt even a CASA will stop you flying with a grommet other than immediately after the 'operation'

However many autoimmune diseases do cause tracheal stenosis although in practice we do not see these patients needing operative management. In fact it is very rare. Surgery is normally only performed for symptoms such as breathlessness. In practice you would lose your medical from the stenosis way before needing surgery. If you become breathless that will be of interest in your medical, otherwise I cannot see it is an issue. BUT these diseases effect many other systems so you would be best advised to talk to the specialist looking after the autoimmune disease itself and learning of the likely progression / prognosis / issues.

If you have more information eg a specific diagnosis, we may be able to help you further. And I regret I am from the better side of the Tasman Sea so I cant help with specifics for your country.

[Density]

Radgirl

Thanks for your response. Better side of the Tasman indeed. I flew in NZ for a year or so too and throughly enjoyed it. So as to clarify, I have been diagnosed with Granulomatosis with polyangiitis. The disease has resulted in severe pain and bleeding from the sinuses and ears, along with inability to clear my ears; as well as lung nodules. I was treated with high dose steroids and chemotherapy. It has been some 6 months since initial treatment and thankfully there is no pain whatsoever in sinuses or ears and my lung nodules are almost completely resolved. I am now on a very low dose of prednisone for maintenance (and legal according to CASA). The only thing that remains is fluid in the ear canal due to Eustachian tube dysfunction and associated deafness and some observed stenosis that has come about after everything has settled down (ENT noted possible fibroblast scarring). I was a little surprised as I don't have any issues with breathing at rest and I only notice a little wheezing when physically exerting myself with exercise. Hope this makes a little more sense.

P.S. I have noted that some ENT's can now perform a procedure that inflates a balloon in the Eustachian tube thereby eliminating the need to perform a myringotomy. Any information on this procedure?

[MrSnuggles]

If you have a "thick" sensation in the ear, I've had that and my mother too. We suspect it is a swelling of the inner parts of the ear that connects to the throat. Just as in your case, there were no visible reasons when the doc poked at the ear with his light-thingy.

It does disappear, but apparently can take up to two weeks. I got temporary relief by doing the pressurisation trick. I tried anti-swelling drugs but don't remember if they worked or not.

[Radgirl]

Specialists do get it wrong. Was he a consultant or a trainee? Alternatively you may have two problems but your story is very suggestive of otitis media aka glue ear aka fluid behind the eardrum

Moreover if you have had a general anaesthetic for your back this may well have produced glue ear - an ENT surgeon may not know this!!

Call the hospital, speak to the specialist's secretary and ask for either another consultation or a second opinion. Without waiting. If you are in the UK and are stone walled ring the chief executive's secretary and ask to make a 'formal complaint '

Sorry to have to advise this but it does work. I suspect once you get to see a specialist face to face and tell them this history and the fact you had a back operation they will look in your ear again and may find some fluid

Even if they do not you can then be reassured nothing has been missed

[Loose rivets]

Thanks for the replies.

A fair amount has happened since my post. The main thing, thinking about the consultant's mention of pressure in the cochlea, I held my nose and applied fair positive pressure - it always cleared - but this time I left it sustained for half a minute or so. The improvement was astonishing, but not permanent of course.

That evening after my hike, I sat in the car and listened to a Chopin nocturne - the first time in months it would have been of any worth at all.

In haste now, but I'll certainly write to the chap and tell him about the general anaesthetic link and indeed my notion that I could squeeze some of the pressure out of the cochlea.

Oh, BTW, when I got my copy of his letter (describing me as this pleasant 76 year old gentleman! Yeah, right.:E) to my GP I saw his qualifications. BSc FRCS and a lot of other stuff.

I suppose I'd better be diplomatic in my persuasion efforts.

[gingernut]

They call everyone "pleasant" unless you were unpleasant. Medical code :-)

The ent guys do use long term low dose antibiotics, (in our area, we use trimethoprim) for prophylaxis of glue ear in kids. I'm not convinced that the evidence is that robust, and it's likely that your perceived benefit was not related to what you took.

Not the right place to recommend specific treatments on here, but ask what your GP/ENT bod what they think of "Otovents."

If they agree, put up a video, it would add some cheer :-)

[9 lives]

What a useful discussion, thanks! I have looked here, as I recent;y changed the prop on my plane from a two blade metal to a three blade composite, which turns 100 RPM more slowly. That should result in more quiet, but the reverse has occurred. (iI's noteworthy that my plane has the prop above and behind your head by about two feet). I had 420 hours on the plane with the two blade Hartzell, and never a problem. After the first flight with the new three blade, my ears were ringing (David Clark regular headset). The ringing, and feeling of pressure on my ears persisted into the evening. 'Next day, I flew again, more cognizant of RPM. I cruised at 2250 RPM, rather than the more common 2300 - 2400. My ears still/again bothered me that evening. 'Next day, I borrowed a Bose A20, and flew down to buy a new noise cancelling headset for myself. After an hour in the plane with the Bose, my ears were ringing. I bought a DC One-X noise cancelling, after trying three different headsets in the plane chocked an running. 'Got home, ears ringing, and feeling "swollen" that evening. 'Next day, 3M ear plugs inside the DC One-X. no difference.

After three hours in the plane yesterday, with "industrial" hearing defenders, and the 3M ear plugs, my ears are still ringing the next day. My ears fell swollen inside. I can hear fine, with a bit of ringing, but it feels like I have not cleared my ears following a fast decent.

With all that hearing protection, I have to wonder if the noise/vibration effect is resulting from entrance other than through my ears - top of my head?

I'm thinking of seeking out a audiologist, and ask for advice. Short of a solution, the three blade is coming off, and the old Hartzell is going back on - then I'll really be looking for the difference. I'm wondering about flying a spectrum analysis while this prop is still installed, to understand better.... Anyone know of software (PC or Iphone) which can do this? I may as well have something to compare when I have the Hartzell back on...

[Loose rivets]

Making the comparison with the old prop is good science, if rather expensive.

Measuring sound in a cockpit is very difficult. Just the ambient noise would give some idea, but the device/mic would have to be positioned spot-on the same. I don't think a phone would be nearly sophisticated enough.

There is a chance you've developed an ear problem just at changeover time. Taking that into consideration was a good move.

Good luck.

[reynoldsno1]

I have a similar symptom in my left ear. Fluid in the middle ear. It has been called eustachian tube disorder. I have no problem with equalising pressures when flying (as a passenger). It has persisted for 3 years, but tends to clear in the summer. I live with it.

[MurphyWasRight]

Measuring sound in a cockpit is very difficult. Just the ambient noise would give some idea, but the device/mic would have to be positioned spot-on the same. I don't think a phone would be nearly sophisticated enough.

Actually for a 'relative' comparison it should work fairly well, you will not be seeing absolute values but the spectrum analysis will show what is happening.
A 'dashboard' holder for the phone should work to keep the positioning stable.

I don't have any specific recommendations for the phone app, have not looked at that for a while.

Could be that the new prop had an unfortunate peak at a resonance frequency in the cabin.

I strongly agree with checking out other causes, very easy to fall into the 'must be the last thing that changed' trap.

[Loose rivets]

I often wondered about the crystal effect of fillings. I'm open to all ideas at the moment but have started to get the attention I'm needing. A squeaky wheel and all that. Sat watching telly news yesterday and realised I could hear every word. Just didn't notice at first. However, the fudge came back.

What I don't get is, if it's an over-pressure in the cochlea, then why does it vary in both ears at the same time? I'm having to play a very careful game of getting the information v teeing the surgeons orf.

Back to the eye guy tomorrow. My post-operative 20/20 has dipped in the subject eye which I hope only means the ensuing cataract is on its way. I can see Mizor and Alcor with ease with the left - and I went through the dual procedures with that several years ago.

It has to be said - if I'd not had antibiotics, gall-bladder removal, brachytherapy for prostate cancer, knee surgery, spinal surgery and three lots of eye surgery, I'd be weezing, gut clenching, cancer-wridden, limping, curved person that bumped into things a lot.

I'm hoping that by the time I'm 90 I'll have everything working a treat

[flyingdog]

following pain in my left ear for a few months my ENT doctor wants to put a tube in my left ear, is this compatible with EASA first class medical ?

[annakm]

I went for my annual cc medical and wasn't feeling brilliant on the day. I'd had a fever, slight nausea and dizziness. The doctor appeared to be indifferent to this but after testing my hearing, he pronouncedme partially deaf and failed my medical! Later the same evening, I ended up with an extremely sore throat - almost unable to swallow and made an appointment with an out of hours doctor. I have been diagnosed with bacterial tonsillitis and put on a 10 day course of antibiotics.

I've never had an issue with my hearing before and would have thought at 27, my family and friends would have commented if they had noticed anything. Is it possible the positive test was as a result of the infection? Can tonsillitis affect your hearing? I've got another appointment ntment with a specialist next week to check but I'm gutted that this diagnosis will effect my career.

[Radgirl]

Yes.

So stay indoors, take the medicine and plenty of fluids then demand a new hearing test when you are better

On the face of it you do not need to see a specialist - we do not remove tonsils for one or occasional bouts of tonsillitis. The operation is even worse than the tonsillitis!!!!

[annakm]

Thank you very much for your reply Radgirl - that's really reassuring. I'm astounded that original doctor took no account of the fact I was clearly unwell during the assessment.

The specialist I'm seeing is basically to get a second opinion on my hearing so hopefully the tonsillitis will have cleared up sufficiently to get an accurate result.

[wiggy]

I'm astounded that original doctor took no account of the fact I was clearly unwell during the assessment.

Can he/she do that (probably a question best answered by radgirl)?

If you've failed a test, especially if is a machine measured one such as the darned "beep beep" hearing test I don't see how an AME can do anything other than fail you - it's tricky I know but the general opinion I have heard over the years is don't jeopardise yourself by presenting yourself for a medical if you are ill/under the weather (again just my humble opinion - what's the advice from an AME?).

Anyhow if it is any consolation I suffered from recurring tonsillitis probably for the best part of a year as as a kid ( ouch) , did not have tonsils removed even though it seemed to be the fashion at the time ( very late 1960s) and it cleared up fine - good luck with yours.

[Radgirl]

As you asked so nicely Wiggy !!!!

The tests and measurements in the medical wont demonstrate if you are feeling off colour but my doctor certainly looks in my throat which I suspect would have been a give away and the OP suggest he told the doctor who was 'indifferent'.

If I were the doctor and the candidate was desperate not to postpone the medical (license about to expire, upcoming rostas...) I would go ahead but stop if a test was failed where the failure was likely (almost certainly!!!) due to the temporary illness. Normally we commiserate and offer a new appointment

[annakm]

Yes Wiggy. It was one of the darned beep beep machines!

And the darned doctor also said me being under the weather wouldn't affect the hearing test, even when I queried it! Good point and lesson learnt about attending under the circumstances.

Thanks for the info about tonsillectomies - at the moment, they seem out of fashion unless its recurring so fingers crossed! Don't fancy going through that as well.

[Jonnyknoxville]

I fail the beep test every time , still flying though , there are various other tests you can do to demonstrate functional hearing , you can even wear a hearing aid now .

[gingernut]

Deafness is a symptom. Trying to differentiate a sign is fraught with difficulties. It sounds like you've got some snot resting on your ear drum. Advice as per Radgirl above.

Go again in warmer weather.

If deafness is sudden, seek immediate help to exclude an aucoustic neuroma. Which is unusual, it's usually dislodged ear wax.

[fasfas]

Hello there, I'm writing on behalf of my son who is 13. Already an air cadet, he has his heart set on being a pilot. Unfortunately, as a result of an operation to remove a Cholesteatoma in his right ear (aged 9) he has lost some hearing in his right ear.


I see on the CAA website that 'applicants shall not have a hearing loss of more that 35dB at any of the frequencies 500Hz, 1000Hz or 2000Hz, or more than 50bD at 3000Hz, in either ear separately'.


My son's hearing test shows that he has loss of 25dB at 500Hz, 35dB at 1000Hz-4000Hz in the right ear. I am concluding that he is right on the line!?


Can anyone advise me on how a Doctor would view these results at a medical? I would rather tell my son early if he is unlikely to pass. Or if he is borderline then it would be good to have a back up career option...


Hearing in his left ear is excellent. I would be so grateful for any information. Thank you

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

For an initial medical the requirements have to be met. For renewals there is certain lee-way as I know from personal experience. Hearing is extremely important to professional pilots but I wish him well.

[B2N2]

Have him enjoy his youth.
Glider flying, summer camps, all the good and fun stuff.
He can't solo on a powered airplane unless he's 16 anyway.
Hearing loss tends to be permanent but you never know anyway.
Lots of fun stuff in aviation he can do.
Airline pilot is just a percentile.
Medical requirements change also.
I'd say it's too soon to be concerned about it.

[wiggy]

I suspect one of the first questions an audiologist or an AME popping by might ask is where were these hearing tests done? FIWI my measured losses (mainly in the right ear due to a mispent youth) have varied over the years due to what I suspect were "experimental error" ( e.g.quality of headset, noise exterior to the exam facilities....).

In any event I'd second the advice and wishes given by the above posters..

[fasfas]

Thank you very much for your advice and positivity. If you were his parent (I'm his mum) would you mention to him now that there may be an issue with his hearing which may stop him being a commercial pilot, or leave that conversation until later on? Part of me doesn't want his hopes dashed when he is an older teenager...

[fasfas]

I suspect one of the first questions an audiologist or an AME popping by might ask is where were these hearing tests done? FIWI my measured losses (mainly in the right ear due to a mispent youth) have varied over the years due to what I suspect were "experimental error" ( e.g.quality of headset, noise exterior to the exam facilities....).

In any event I'd second the advice and wishes given by the above posters..

Thank you Wiggy, the test was done at the hospital but I think it would be useful to have another done by an aviation doctor. Fortunately, his hearing isn't likely to get worse and maybe we can look into reconstructive surgery when he is older.

[AyrTC]

As a parent I am going through something similar myself. It is not hearing related however the "problem" has been going on now for six months with the AME not saying yes but not saying no to a medical.
As has been mentioned previously medical conditions and standards can change ( so can career aspirations! )

I would encourage his interest in aviation and when he is older and is going to apply for a flying job or that much more difficult job as an Air Traffic Control Officer :-)

I would make him take an independent, possibly private hearing test conducted by an accredited consultant.
You will then have a set of results which may indicate a class one medical is out of reach or you may have a set of results which the AME/CAA will look on in a favourable light.
This up to date report could save you money and more importantly time in the long run.
At the time of writing you need a class three medical to become an ATCO however I do not know if the hearing requirements are the same as a class one medical.

And while we are at it make him do the Duke of Edinburgh Award up to Gold. It will not improve his hearing but it will improve his interview chances!;)

[Radgirl]

If the operation was successful his hearing will be static at least until middle age. A hearing test is pretty standard and op says he meets the standards.

So stop being pessimistic. No point paying for another. Go and do the medical expecting the same results and a pass. If it is a just fail hand over the hospital result and ask to retake it.

If it is still a fail then there will be an ENT referral but I doubt this will be the case

[fasfas]

Again thanks for the positivity. You're right, as the operation was successful his hearing should stay static. There is reason to hope! Thanks, AyrTC. Agree about DofE and my son also loves cadets and will get so much from the experience, whatever his career. I wish your son luck with the issue he is having and hope he gets a good result in the end.

[B2N2]

Now this is advice from somebody who doesn't have children....
In general early teens need to be made aware that life comes with disappointment and that we want it doesn't mean we have a shot at it.
Right or wrong, fair or unfair.
Being an Olympian, concert pianist or world famous spy, all of us have dreams.
I would keep that to myself right now and let him enjoy his youth.
But he does need to be taught about unfairness of life and dealing with emotional blows. In general not specifically this. One day a girl will break his heart too...guaranteed.
He'll need to deal with that also.

[Radgirl]

OP asked for medical advice on his son's hearing, not a lesson in child psychology. The young man can be reassured he is ok to pass. Why do certain people always post the same depressing reply with put downs and tough luck comments? As someone who tries to help people it really depresses me.

[B2N2]

OP asked for medical advice on his son's hearing, not a lesson in child psychology. The young man can be reassured he is ok to pass. Why do certain people always post the same depressing reply with put downs and tough luck comments? As someone who tries to help people it really depresses me.

Hey sunshine, how's your reading comprehension?
I would keep that to myself right now and let him enjoy his youth.
And it's her, it's his mum
OP asked for medical advice on his son's hearin

Has nothing to do with being positive or negative.
It's fact.

[421dog]

Not really an issue on this side of the pond as long as one's willing to wear a headset. (assuming one flunked the conversational test at 6 ft facing away)

[dannyhill94]

Hi all,

Has any body got any experience with Referrals to an ENT from an Initial Class one? My left ear tested at 1000 Hz with a 45dB loss, exceeding the limit of 35dB. Other frequencies and losses are fine, for both ears. I'm just wondering what the process would be at my specialist appointment, and the expected time frame from there. Previous hearing tests do show a trend with a mix of achieving the 35dB limit and sometimes exceeding it again. An help, guidance, or words of wisdom appreciated.

Thanks!

[narkisos]

Hello everybody,
I was informed a couple days ago that I passed the compass and invited for an interview. In the meantime, I went 6 days ago to get the medical 1, in one of the AME centers in the country. I had a cold the days before and even now. I know that you have to avoid going to the exams if you have a cold, but the timelines are really strict.
So I failed for 5db, in one of the frequencies. The Ent examined and told me that everything seems to be fine, but you have to use otrivin and some salt water in your nose for a couple of days, and then you will come here and pass, or not. In the meantime, I went for a detailed exam to another doctor (not an AME), because I felt really bad, and I had no more of 20db losses. I still feel that my ear has some water in it, and when I do an Eustachian Tube exercise, the sound I hear is very loud. So I have 2 questions:

1)If I fail again, do I have the opportunity to go again, or to go to the another AME center?
2)If the company call me, and I go to their AME center, I am already registered in the system? I mean the other exams are marked as passed except for the hearing test? I may have the opportunity to do all the tests again?

Thanks very much in advance.

[pilot_tolip]

What are the rules for Class 1 Medical 'hearing'? When I had my initial class 1 medical in the UK, I was told one ear had some hearing loss, but was within the limits. What would happen if one of my ears went out of the limit? Am I able to pass the class 1 medical? Thank you.

[Asneeze]

Hallo Gents and Ladies,
I am EASA Swiss ATPL holder between 30 and 35 years old.
Since the beginning of my career I had hearing loss, because of which I have to go thru the audiometry every yearly renewal. Unluckily it seems worsening slowly towards the standard audio limits and it is suspected to be an otosclerosis.
I would like to try to know what to expect in the next years and plan accordingly.
Can someone kindly answer to these following questions?

A) Considering the hearing loss only, what are the limits and what happens if I am going to be above those limits?

B) Talking about the otosclerosis, can it lead to a medical loss by itself?
What if I go thru a stapedectomy surgery?

C) Is the FAA medical less conservative on this topic (I am considering to take an FAA licence to continue flying abroad if necessary)

D) what is the medical requirement if I decide to take a SFI rating?

E) Considering that this problematic is known since the beginning, is the insurance going to pay for the loss of licence?

F) How can I get in touch with the medical authority without digging my own grave?

Please answer only if you have direct experience or knowledge about any of the previous questions.

All the best!

[savguz]

Hello guys and gals

Please help! :ugh:

I had my initial medical class 1 two weeks ago and I had negative pressure in my ear. I was advised to wait until the pressure goes away. I checked it today with my local doc. The pressure is still -100 daPa. Generally, this is in the normal pressure range but do you know if I should have perfect zero pressure to get my medical?

[hookes_joint]

I am a licensed helicopter pilot in Europe, USA and Canada. I will convert my FAA license to Indonesia very soon.
I would like to know if any of you have utilized the functional hearing check in the class 1 medical as per CASR 67. 207 in lieu of the audiogram.

[FlyinErin]

Hello everyone, I'm hoping someone might be able to give me some information or guidance as to what I might need to do to keep my dream of flying professionally alive,

I had the dreaded initial class 1 medical assessment this morning and unfortunately failed on one item - my low frequency hearing loss was marked as 40db at 500hz in my left ear (the max' loss is 35dbs at 500hz). In all other parameters i met or exceeded the required standard.

My AME has referred me to an ear nose and throat specialist for further investigation.

I am 38 years old and I've never experienced any problems with my hearing before. I have 117 flight hours logged, after passing my EASA UK issued class 2 medical without any problems.

I have researched the all the information to be found on the CAA website regarding people who don't meet MED.B.080 standards but I am a little confused as to what it might mean for me.

In theory, assuming the ENT specialist discovered nothing untoward, would it still be possible for me to obtain eventually an unrestricted Class 1 medical certificate or will I always now have this marked as a problem on my records? If a Class 1 medical certificate is still a possibility for me, has anyone any experience or ideas on the next steps I should take to achieve this?

I have contacted my AME with regards to the above, but sadly they weren't able to offer me much advice or information. When I had my Class 2 the AME commented that I did have a bit of wax build up in my ears so hopefully it's something simple like that, but it would be good to know if there is a work around just in case.

Thanks awfully.

[FlyinErin]

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to post an update on this thread just incase anyone else ever has a similar issue in the future.

After my Class 1 Initial Audiogram fail, the Dr referred me to a private ear nose and throat specialist. The ENT couldn't see me until this morning, so in the mean time i'd been using Otex just to make sure my ear wasn't full of gunk that could be causing a problem. I also went to my regular GP who had a quick look in my ear but couldn't spot any problems.

Fast forward to this morning and my visit with the ENT. The Dr was very friendly and after a few general health questions, gave my ears a thorough inspection. Apart from a small bit of wax that they sucked out with their fancy machine, they could see no issues either so sent me off for another audiogram.

This audiogram was similar to the one at the initial class 1. After that, they used some probing device to check the middle part of my ear. Then I had to redo the audiogram with the addition of a bone hearing device behind my left ear, while they played varying levels of white noise in my right (good ear). After all that was done, they checked my results and found that my hearing loss was only at 500hz (middle c on a piano i'm told) with a threshold of 30db. Luckily for me, the CAA's guidance is maximum of 35db so hopefully i've just scraped through! I won't relax until I have a Class 1 in my grubby little mitts though.

The ENT couldn't give me a reason for the hearing loss at a specific 500hz frequency. They reckon it might be something I've had from birth and just lived with happily oblivious to it. After my initial failure, I was worried that I might have damaged my ears myself from loud music in my younger days or even just from flying about in a noisy old Cessna. They said that this wasn't the case as noise related hearing loss tends to be in the higher frequency ranges first.

Anyways, hopefully it's all worked out okay. If anyone else finds themselves in a similar boat in future, don't be too alarmed by the ENT. The person I saw was super helpful and did everything that they could to help.

Next step for me is all the fun of ATPL ground school and what i imagine will be a sturdy invoice from the ENT.

Happy landings everyone!

[pilotmike]

... they checked my results and found that my hearing loss was only at 500hz (middle c on a piano i'm told)
Middle C has a frequency of 261.6Hz, so 500Hz is almost 1 octave above middle C - in fact a slightly sharp B which has a frequency of 493.9Hz.

Good luck with your Class 1 and ATPL. What will be will B, see! Keep sharp.

[1968]

I need to renew my Class 2 medical shortly. I have a CPL with lapsed IR. I only require Class 2 VFR privileges. Will I still need to have an Audiogram because I have an IR even though its not current?

[kwaiyai]

If you are not exercising the IR Privileges and flying IFR in Controlled/Uncontrolled airspace etc etc then you
do not need to have a current C1 audio. If you decide to renew the IR I suggest you get the audio done first.

Regd's.

[topoverhaul]

Audiogram not required for the IR(R) only required for Class 2 with IR or Class 1.

[BigEndBob]

Why don't AME's do audiogram on class 2 medicals when they feel a person doesn't hear properly.
Instead they come to me, FE, with a form for me to asses them in the aircraft.
I should not be asked to make a judgement, it's up to the AME to use appropriate equipment to asses the person.
For instance they could use a headset fed with sample radio calls and say morse code.
I am biased, i don't want to lose a customer (flying club) by saying they are ok when they a have obvious hearing problems.

[LanceHudson]

Hi folks,

I have always wanted to be a pilot but I do have one nick in the way: hearing loss. I sat my Initial CAA Class 1 back in April and passed. Just. My hearing just about sits on the line of requirements.

While I am grateful to have a Class 1 to my name, I am only 23 years old so - no doubt - my hearing will likely deteriorate past the standard in possibly even 10 years. (nb: I was born with this loss, and it hasn't changed since hearing checkups I've had since I was 6 years old).

The AME did warn me, however, if I failed an audiogram & functional hearing assessment the Class 1 would be taken off me - and to take this into consideration before forking out >£100k to become a pilot. Hearing aids do seem to be allowed, but I don't know much about this.

Does anyone here have any experience regarding the CAA and hearing? I'd love to know if, for example, I got a hearing aid at 30 I could continue my career.

Kind regards.

[TotalBeginner]

I"m confused as I've been working as a flight attendant for the best part of 12 years

And that unfortunately is the problem. It saddens me when I see how many of my colleagues have suffered with hearing loss from working as a flight attendant. After 6 years of short-haul flying, I too have started to suffer with tinnitus and have some hearing loss in the high frequency range.

What's interesting is that our company manual states that in order to achieve maximum hearing protection, flight crew must wear headsets covering both ears and that the interphone should be used appropriately to ensure clarity of conversation between crew members. It's a shame that they don't afford the same kind of protection to cabin crew.

I don't necessarily think that the volume of the noise is the issue (certainly not the aircraft type that I operate), but it's more to do with prolonged high pitch sound that emanates from the slipstream around the aircraft. After a long 10-12 hour day, when I lay in bed in silence, the ringing is stark!

[clarkeysntfc]

Hi All

Wondering if you can help / offer any advice.

I have a PPL, and recently obtained my Class 1 medical.

From birth I've had a hearing loss which is corrected by the use of (very small) in the ear canal hearing aids. My audiogram didn't quite reach class 1 standards, however I have completed a Functional Hearing Test (FHT) and obtained the class 1 off the back of this.

Under limitations, my class 1 medical states "SSL - FHT required within 3 months of renewal / re-validation medical" Does anyone foresee any issues with being able to obtain a commercial pilot job with this medical?

My hearing is static in respect of loss, with no deterioration in my adult life so far and hearing aid technology continues to progress at an extremely rapid rate, so I do not foresee any issues with future FHT results.

Thanks for your help in advance!