£10,000 permit aircraft advice

[barne_as]

Dear all

I am looking to purchase my first aircraft and have decided some criteria that it needs to meet based on my personal circumstances.
These are:
1) to be capable of 90k plus (similar or faster to standard club Cessnas)
2) to be around the £10,000 - £15,000 mark
3) to be a two seater
4) not a microlight
5) and as a bonus, to have folding wings so that in the winter / for maintinence, it can be stored in a standard garage at home.

I have been considering a Kitfox or an Avid speedwing, but would appreciate any further ideas from anyone

Also if anyone can shed any light on ownership of the above I would be grateful. I really need to get away from club rentals and start flying something that can be mine!

With thanks

[shortstripper]

There's a Viking Cygnet at Popham for sale at the moment. A bit pricey IMHO, so you might be able to knock him down. It does all you want and more and has a nice modern Rotax that consumes Mogas rather than expensive avgas.

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2008-4/12678.jpg (http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image12678.html)

I'm about to start building one!

SS

[Zulu Alpha]

Have a look at a Streak Shadow.
Air-Britain : CFM Streak Shadow (http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?page=1&q=CFM%20Streak%20Shadow&u=type)

It fulfils all your requirements and a nice one can be had for around £12K.
Runs on Mogas, has removable wings and horozontal stabliser.
I have a nice one with a Rotax 912 which may be coming up for sale soon.

ZA

[airborne_artist]

How is it in the rear seat of a Shadow?

[jonkil]

How is it in the rear seat of a Shadow?
Like a giraffe in a fridge.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Dear all

I am looking to purchase my first aircraft and have decided some criteria that it needs to meet based on my personal circumstances.
These are:
1) to be capable of 90k plus (similar or faster to standard club Cessnas)
2) to be around the £10,000 - £15,000 mark
3) to be a two seater
4) not a microlight
5) and as a bonus, to have folding wings so that in the winter / for maintinence, it can be stored in a standard garage at home.

I have been considering a Kitfox or an Avid speedwing, but would appreciate any further ideas from anyone

Also if anyone can shed any light on ownership of the above I would be grateful. I really need to get away from club rentals and start flying something that can be mine!

With thanks

At that cheap end of the market, and also hanging onto low cost Permit operations (there are plenty of cheap to buy but expensive to run C150 and PA28-140 aircraft in that bracket) the options are limited.

A thought - you'll never fly an aeroplane quite as much as you'd like, and whilst it's wonderful owning an aeroplane outright, it's also very time consuming in care and maintenance. I really would think hard about share ownership - albeit still in the permit category.

Really obvious statements, but somebody needs to make them. (1) Join the LAA (PFA as was) and also trawl through the huge amounts of excellent advice on their website, (2) If there are good reasons why you need "group A" hours fine, but if not look seriously at modern microlights, which may well give you a better aeroplane for less money.

That said, and looking on the AFORS website (always my favourite for window shopping), good aeroplanes in that bracket might include: Pulsar 582 (small, fast, light), Avis Speedwing (small twitchy taildragger but cheap to run and great fun), Kitfox (ditto), Jodel D112 (reasonably solid and reliable 2 seat taildragger), Luscombe Silvaire (ditto).

What do all of these aeroplanes have in common? Apart from being cheap and fun, they're also small and light - don't expect PA28/C172 flying to prepare you for flying one safely, nor most light aircraft instructors to understand them well. You will need to spend some quality time with some combination of a PFA coach and/or a microlight instructor. Oh yes, and do a taildragger conversion.

And, by and large, you won't regret it. But, I'd still recommend looking at your local syndicates.

G

[ifitaintboeing]

Once you do find your aircraft, I can only echo the advice about appropriate coaching ;-) but also ensure you contact your local LAA engineer to ensure they give you a proper appraisal of the aircraft you're about to spend your hard earned cash on.

Suitable types for the money are Jodels, Condor, Emmeraude. Easy to fly and convert onto with fairly benign characteristics and great first tailwheel aircraft for you to build confidence. The Kitfox is fairly lively for a first tailwheel. Find aircraft owners at your local LAA strut or fly-in, who will be only too glad to offer advice and assistance.

If you've never owned an aircraft before, my advice would be to buy a share and keep it for a year. You won't lose any money on it, and you will learn a lot. Then re-consider what you want, and it won't have cost you much: you will have had loads of fun in the process at minimal cost.

Contact LAA Head Office for a copy of LAA Today, which contains lots of advice to newcomers.

Welcome to the Light Aircraft Association (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk)

Regards,

ifitaint..

[mr. small fry]

Slight change of subject here, but what would one expect to pay nowadays for an RF4? Any ideas?

[barne_as]

Isnt the shadow a microlight?

[Rod1]

"Isnt the shadow a microlight?"

Some are, but not all.

Rod1

[Fake Sealion]

All sound advice above.
One important issue not specifically covered in your "spec" is that of Maximum Takeoff Weight/Useful load.
Assuming you are intending to use both seats, it is worth carrying out a realistic assessment of a typical flight - your weight with outdoor winter clothing, flight bag, head-phones, knee board, wallet, mobile , packed lunch etc - ditto for your pax, an amount of fuel sufficient to stay airborne for say 2 hrs THEN see how that stacks up with the MTOW/useful load.

You will be surprised how many light 2 seater aircraft "fail the test" in this respect.

[airborne_artist]

FS - do we take it that you are no longer the slim, sylph-like individual who entered BRNC 31 years ago? :}

[Fake Sealion]

FS - do we take it that you are no longer the slim, sylph-like individual who entered BRNC 31 years ago?


What do you think ! I wish!:ugh:

I still have a No 5 Jacket. Hardly buttons up single breasted let alone double!

[hatzflyer]

There are several aircraft that meet all of your criteria except the wing fold.Most of them are LAA types that require hangaring.To be honest ,if you have cash on the hip,buying a suitable aircraft will be easy but finding somewhere to hangar it won't.
My advice is to contact the LAA.They will put in touch with the local branch(strut).
Go along and introduce yourself and you will probably be invited to try many of the types mentioned above plus others such as Taylorcraft,Condor,Emeraude,Sipa,Cavalier,Minicab and a whole host of others.
However you need to find somewhere to keep it as a priority as this will determine if the aircraft can be hangared or will need to live outside in which case none of the above will be any good and you need to be looking for something like a Bolkow Junior (aerobatic to boot !)

[barne_as]

I currently have no hangerage and that is another problem i have to overcome.

There is hangerage available at a local GA airport but this is expensive and would defeat the object of me trying to keep the costs down. It seems there is no source, (apart from networking) for finding hangerage/parking at farm strips, does anyone have any ideas?

I have joined my local strut and have attended there meetings.

[LowNSlow]

Don't forget the many Austers that are changing from CofA to LAA Permit to Fly. The Champ is an often overlooked little aeroplane albeit a bit slow for your requirements but it is cheap to run and loadsa fun.

[Nipper2]

You could come in with me on a half-share - I'm looking for roughly the same thing. I had a Jodel, Luscombe or similar in mind.

Don't worry about folding the wing. It's a pain in the proverbial and anyway, whey not keep flying through the winter? You'll still be paying for the hangar even if the 'plane is at home.

I do have contacts with respect to hangerage etc......

I'm based in central south Hampshire - could be too far for you depending on where in Sussex you are based.

PM me if interested.