RAF Police threaten civilian with FPN off camp!!

[Champagne Anyone?]

I was astounded to receive a call from a close friend of mine who is normally mild natured but was furious at the attitude of a Flt Lt APM at a certain training base in Lincolnshire.

On approaching the barrier, he undid his seatbelt, whilst stationary in order to get his pass from his pocket. He saw said APM walking towards the road and politely gestured for him to cross infront before proceeding the 15m to the gate. (APM had been seen walking from the A17 direction towards the camp minutes earlier)

APM strode over and started to dress him down for not wearing his seatbelt, eventhough he was stationary, and, had been courteous enough to let the APM cross infront of him.

Young officer then went in to the blurb that it was an offence not to wear a seat belt and that he could issue him a ticket on the spot for not wearing it. When my friend asked when the law changed enableing him to issue a ticket to a civillian, he was told 'I can, and I can also ban you from the camp!'

When did the RAFP gain the power to issue civillians, off camp, fixed penalty notices for traffic offences on the civil roads??

My friend is an ex Lincs Bobby and was astounded by the attitude of this officer and also the revelation that he 'could' be issued an FPN by the RAFP off camp for what was a civil traffic offence. (eventhough he was stationary which provided a defence in law!)

He decided not to argue with Plod and continued 10m then took off the seatbelt again to gain access to his pass.

Now, I cannot recall any change in the law which allows RAFP/APM to issue civillians FPNs. Have I missed something somwhere?

Any views would be welcome, especially from the APM who made the threats!

[FJJP]

The APM is an ass. RAFP have no jurisdiction whatsoever over civilians on or off camp, let alone issue FPNs. If they have to deal with a civilian, they have to call in the local police. Witness what happened when protesters broke into several camps a few years ago [inc the women at Greenham Common] - RAFP couldn't touch them, arrest them or anything.

A plod tried it on me once [off base on a public road] for doing 70 in a 60 zone and stopped me because I was in uniform [blue light, the lot - which is illegal on a public road]. He was extensively rebriefed by the base chief plod soon after.

I would have submitted a formal complaint to OC Admin - that sort of attitude we don't need. The Forces and media are doing a great job turning the tide of public opinion pro Forces. Twits like this bonehead can only serve to damage the perception of the public.

I'd get your friend to write a formal complaint to OC Admin. This pratt needs to be knocked of his high horse of self importance before he does some substantial damage. Make sure he mentions in his letter that he is an ex-policeman.

[Tiger_mate]

I'd get your friend to write a formal complaint to OC Admin.

Station Cdr and local MP is where my snottagram would go. There are exemptions from wearing seatbelts and whilst they are statistically unlikely to apply, they just may have done, making the presumed guilty even more unforgiveable. Sadly we our fair share of them :mad:

Medical grounds with Doctors certificate
Delivery vans
Reversing
Taxis

..by way of example.

[isaneng]

Before everybody goes scuffer bashing, we've all got a merchant banker in our trade group. Sounds like this could be he! Previous briefings for various duties have also stated that RAFP have no powers over civilians, and can only detain until civ cops appear on scene. A local complaint seems quite appropriate, although question of evidence/witnesses, otherwise could just become a slagging match. However, let's try and avoid this thread becoming a plod attack, and stick to specifics - I hate to admit, but the local guys have been helpful and sensible recently!!

[Jackonicko]

I have to agree. One bad apple, and all that.....

RAF Benson's Police Flight Corporals are a great advert for the service, and deserve every possible pat on the back. They are articulate, good humoured, helpful, polite and friendly, as well as efficient and responsive. I've had reason to seek their assistance on a number of occasions, and have been impressed every time.

[Prop-Ed]

What's all this "let’s not start slagging scuffers" nonsense? Can't have enough threads bashing these losers of the human race. Come on everyone, lets get the boot in! :ok:

[FJJP]

Isaneng, I'm not intent on bashing the RAF Feds. I have found the vast majority friendly and very helpful - I don't have any axe to grind.

But that one bad apple needs to be sorted sooner rather than later before any serious damage is done.

Prop-Ed, not helpful...

[Al R]

A mate left and joined the real plod (early 90s). He was in the beat wagon at 0100 in Wiltshire when the old sweat he was with nudged him awake and pointed to 4 lads, short hair, jeans, dessies and sweat tops on making their way around the bend past the shops towards the main gate (can you tell where it is yet?). They were generally hooning about and one of them carelessly threw a chip wrapper at the wire so as they walked almost past the main gate, the old sweat blipped them with the blues and screeched up behind them. The orderly military scuffer ran out doing his flies up and asked what the matter was. Civpol ranted a little that he had seen the men throwing litter and generally behaving like arses, and were a disgrace to the military, and weren't a patch on the military that he had been in in 1856.

Anyway, the RAF Fed decided that hey, here was a chance to show his civpol mate what real discipline was all about so lined the men up and started bawling and them and giving them press ups. "Right, you shower of shyte" he screamed after 5 minutes or so of beasting.. ".. names pronto, and where do you lot work?". "Actually Corporal.. it is Corporal isn't it? We have nothing to do with the military" said one in a well spoken voice".. I don't suppose you have a telephone that I can use please, so that I can have a very quick chat with my solicitor?". Mate is now in NZ and still cracks up when he reminds me of it.

[isaneng]

FJJP, sorry, I didn't mean to infer that you were out to upset people, my comments were aimed at some of the prats that go fishing for reaction. Apologies if it appeared as a personal comment - blame my poor grammar/style!

[minigundiplomat]

You know the main difference between RAF Coppers and Adolf Hitler?

Adolf was a substantive Cpl.

[Mmmmnice]

.....I think that's Adolf? Sorry MGD, once a nibber always a nibber!!

[Chicken Leg]

Adolph was a substansive Cpl

Hmm. Shouldn't that be substanTive?! ;)

[Emerson Cahooners]

Could this be the same young plod who was at Aldergrove circa 2001/2 and proved so unpopular in such a short time that his sparkly new mountain bike mysteriously found itself jettisoned into Lough Neagh from 2000ft, allegedly, possibly?
:}

[R 21]

Could this be the same Plod at Aldergrove who threatened to arrest a certain some would say grumpy MACr? Or the same Plod who was fighting in the Rose Bowl .......... all rumour of course :E

[Karl Bamforth]

One morning while attending the station execs briefing, Station commander was late and all others looking worse for wear. CO turns up apologises for being late as he was summoned to the guard room, by chief plod, something about them responding to an explosive incident involving a piano the night before. Station commander had to apologise as it was his idea to blow it up. Apparently the only ones not finding the events of the night before funny was the RAFP's. Understandable though in this day and age.

[tonker]

If you have left the Queens Highway, and are thus on private property you are not obliged to wear a seat belt.

[Bertie Thruster]

RAF Valley.(A beautiful posting on Anglesey, N.Wales):uhoh: Loss of 1250 (id card) "prevalent offence". Big push from Valley senior plod to nail such offenders...................

I was jogging (as one used to do!) round the tundra outside the camp. Spotted in the sodden marsh between a couple of those funny bits of rock.....a wallet.....yes..... with cash, cards and 1250.

Joy of joys...it was the senior plods 1250! :}


http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:Unn3xjAlCoGeGM::i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/futurefaith17/get_out_of_jail_free.jpg

[glad rag]

Indeed, rafp and MT have never had a happy relationship. :E

[AgentA]

My apologies if this is a repeat but my original post didn't appear so I re-wrote it!

Firstly can I say that I am not defending the RAFP officer's manner, and I am genuinely sorry that your friend was dealt with inappropriately (accepting that we only have one side of the debate). I would offer a couple points of clarification which (hopefully) will close some elements of this discusssion:

1. RAFP cannot and do not issue FPNs though some units may have a local administrative system to manage warnings (speeding, bad-driving, etc) as an escalation to banning serious or persistant offenders from camp. Such action would only be taken with the Station Commander's agreement and authority but could apply to both Service or civilian drivers.

2. RAFP do have powers of arrest over civilians under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 S24A (this power affords anyone not just us rozzers the power to arrest an individual for an indictable (serious) offence. This would not, however, be appropriate in this situation, even if the individual had been committing a road traffic violation.

I suspect the RAFP officer concerned was inexperienced and over-stepped the mark of what is reasonable but then who hasn't made mistakes (how many of you have walked away from or flown away from a situation you wouldn't like to repeat?). Treat everyone, civilian or serviceman in the same manner as you would the station commander and you can't go far wrong.

I hope the officer concerned has learnt from the situation. The thread is now being beaten out on the RAFP jungle drums so I suspect it will not be long before he or she sees the outcome of the situation. Ultimately, if your friend feels that strongly, then perhaps he should write to OC Administration Wing or the Station Commander but I would hope that he can chalk it up to experience.

Thank you to those of you that have defended our honour. Please feel free to take a copy of your post to your nearest RAFP flt to claim a free cup of tea or coffee (no doughnut jokes please).

[dmanton300]

If this "I can issue you an FPN" thing happens to you ands you're not happy about it always remember that as a Police officer I can only offer you the option of an FPN. You are perfectly entitled to refuse it and then the person in question has two options. A:/Let it go and send you on your way, and B:/ report you for process. If you are happy that you've done nothing wrong always opt for being reported. It'll shag the officer's day up if he decides to pursue it (report file etc., court date, statement of evidence, CPS advice etc. etc.) And also note whether or not he cautions you when he reports you. That'll likely be the last you hear of it. Especially if it's anything other than a Home Office plod, and less likely to know exactly what he's talking about.

Not trying to screw my fellow officers over, but I'm not a huge fan of people who dish FPN's out like they're confetti, and some do. FPN's are sometimes like meetings - the practical alternative to work!

[Art Field]

There is nothing worse that an over enthusiastic young officer plod, I fear now and again one gets through the training without heeding the advice which I am sure the staff pass on about playing it cool. In a certain East Anglian Tanker base some time ago there was such an idiot who rushed into the mess ante room at lunch time during a mini-val and 'bang bang' shot various people resting from their labours. After totally going over the top he was superbly put down by a very senior Flt Lt who sent him in the direction of off and told him to play somewhere else. Funny thing when the idiot went off station to an accident in his Land Rover and was told to go back on MOD property by the local cops or be prosecuted for illegal tyres the whole station knew about it very soon after.

[BEagle]

How right you are (as always!), Arters!
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

At a famous Lincolnshire bomber base, a wet-behind-the-ears APM (A Police Man) decided that the most important policing task he could address within his massive experience was the 20 mph camp speed limit. This on a station whose roads were probably designed for Austin Sevens and the like...

So he enlisted the assistance of a reluctant Cpl Plod and paced out a measured distance along the main cart track throught the station. As a car passed the Cpl, said Cpl would wave a handkerchief and the APM would start his stopwatch. If the car passed him in less than (whatever) seconds, it would be a case of "Your nicked, son. Upagainstthemotah" in best mock-Sweeney tones.

He had, of course, forgotten about the devious ways of aircrew. Idiot child that he was.

So, one fine day, there was a screech of tyres and lots of smoke as a car passed the Cpl Plod. The Cpl waved his hankie in the approved manner, but the car (driven by a Vulcan co-pilot) came to a slow walking pace some moments before reaching the APM. The seconds ticked past until the average speed was less than 20 mph, whereupon the co-pilot continued on his merry way, pausing only to say "Morning, constable, lovely day isn't it" to the irate piglet.

Word of this filtered up through Sqn Cdr to Stn Cdr. Of the old school, he decided that A Word was needed...

"Ah, Plt Off XXXX, do come in. Don't sit down and do keep your hat on. Now, your job here is to guard my buckets of sunshine, not to piss people off! Do I make myself clear? Any questions? No - I thought not. Now f*ck off and do something useful. Goodbye!"

The 'speed trap' was never seen again!

[Dengue_Dude]

This reminds me of the old joke about what did the Rabbi do with the 'off-cuts'.

He said, we plant them, then after 18 years we harvest them and send them to RAF Newton (old Plod school).

Worth a chuckle, whilst not much of a plod 'knocker', many of them really DID deserve the 'acclaim' awarded for their behaviour. Many self-inflicted injuries.

[Contacttower]

I understand that some RAF police are also enlisted as special constables with the local constabulary - which I suppose would enable them to exercise civilian police powers.

[Motleycallsign]

I hear that the 'RAFP No Parking' cones have been removed from the lay-by outside the MGR at Cranditz. Was their placing there in the first place another incident of RAFP taking the law into their own mits?

[wg13_dummy]

I understand that some RAF police are also enlisted as special constables with the local constabulary - which I suppose would enable them to exercise civilian police powers.

I'll bet that really impresses the **** out of the local coppers having RAF plod on board. :rolleyes:

No doubt they'd rather swap a handful of RAFP Special constables for one PCSO or a couple of traffic cones. Why would they want to inflict RAFP on civpop?? They couldn't close a door let alone a case.


'RAFP No Parking' cones

I would take that in the literal sense. 'No parking for RAFP but ok for everyone else'.

[JessTheDog]

Shame on me, I mostly *liked* the RAFP I encountered. :uhoh:

There are jobsworth idiots in every branch and trade. Like the Adj (Fg Off) who decided it would be a good idea to reinstate the "hats on for visitors in SHQ" rule. Like the Adj (Flt Lt) who became very possessive of certain types of chair. Like the Wg Cdr who developed an obsessive interest in cyclists dismounting over 2 yards of pavement between roadways. Yawwwwnnnn.....

Humour is the weapon. This RAFP chap deserves a little commemorative plaque with a miniature seatbelt affixed, in recognition of his services to road safety, or something like that. Might even encourage them to unwind a little.

Alternatively, stiff them when you get the chance....an extra pellet in the chamber during CCS, the most onerous secondary duties, etc.... :=

[spheroid]

I have heard on the grapevine that parking at Yeovilton has become a bit of an issue. Apparently, someone held a LEAN (CI) event which decided that it would be more efficient to stop people (apart from Civvies) parking next to the Sqdn building and making all the boys walk a mile to the nearest Carpark...??? Seems a bit odd....not sure if there is any truth in the matter.....anyone any ideas?

[14greens]

Tonker! think you will find on most stations when you get a station pass, the orders generally state that as well as extra requlations regarding driving on that station, all other road traffic rules still apply! In otherwords, you should still wear a seatbelt.
However, as Isaneng pointed out al trades have "bankers" BUT is was the bloke in this case not an officer? are they not meant to be the "cream" of that trade?
I got stopped at the main gate at Shrivenham by the MOD Plods checked my vehicle pass and ID (I was on a motorcycle) then said "where is yr tax disc" politely told him to sod off it was nothing to do with him! I had signed the orders in passes and permits that states I have to have all relevant documentation to have the vehicle on the road legally, and was he accusing me of ignoring orders that I had signed!!

[Cpl Plod]

BUT is was the bloke in this case not an officer? are they not meant to be the "cream" of that trade?

No:ok:

text to get me past the spam filter

[isaneng]

Was he not an officer? Or are they not 'the cream'? Shame on you Cpl Plod..........

[FJJP]

Hey Beags, remember the cocktail party at Scampton where the Chief Constibule of Lincs was an honoured guest? A couple of civi plods set themselves up on the A15 half a mile from the main gate towards Lincoln.

They watched for cars leaving the base and stopped them to check for booze. Word got back very rapidly to the Staish, who was downing pints with said Ch Const. Staish briefs Ch Const on what's going on - turns out that one of the plods was ex-mil and pissed off with his time in and decided that this was a great opportunity to get at the ossifers who he didn't like.

Said Ch Const apologised to the Staish and made a phone call. Patrol car vanished toot suite...

[ase engineer]

Quote:
I understand that some RAF police are also enlisted as special constables with the local constabulary - which I suppose would enable them to exercise civilian police powers.

Actually it all depends on the status of the RAF Police, (which I don't know but I'm sure someone will enlighten me, shortly) - If they take the oath of a Constable, then they do have legal powers of arrest and control of the public given to the officer directly by a sworn oath and warrant, just like civilain police. If, however, they are just folk employed in the "police" branch of the RAF then they have about as much authority over the civilian population as anyone else in a blue suit i.e. not a lot.

[XV277]

MOD Plod do, in theory, have the same powers as a County Cop, if not the inumerable forms to actual process you for RTA offences! They should stick to bashing hippies.

[AR1]

God I hated the RAF Police..

1. Charged (dismissed) with conduct unbecoming for having the audacity to kiss my fiancee goodbye at the station gate - 1 kiss, not a long one, no tounges or anything.

2. Charged with having an unregistered vehicle on the station - contrary to SSO's, I was duty airman, and parked the motorcycle was on the civvy side of the barrier & guardroom. They produced a map showing that the actual station bounday was 20m outside of the gate. (ever get the feeling this may have been the response to 1.)

I salute you all. With two fingers.

[4mastacker]

Bawdsey - mid-seventies - chief plod on moral high horse trying to prevent "consorting" between male and females. Has his troops hiding in the bushes outside the Deben Club trying to spot airmen heading off toward the WRAF lines for a bit of "lurving". Troops emerge from Naafi singing "Dawn Patrol" from Jungle Book. Feeling sorry for plod, chef from mess throws some mouldy bread into the bushes in case they're feeling peckish, 4 ma thinks they might want a drink so waters bush with fire hose - jobs a guddin! Staish thought it was only worth three days jankers :ok:

[ShyTorque]

I take all folks as I find them. With one or two notable exceptions, the RAF police I came into contact during my 18 years in with were complete ***heads; forever trying to catch folk out.

I was: Pursued in Germany by two in a Range Rover with blues and twos, having been incorrectly and falsely accused by a third of driving on the wrong side of the road. I was in a UK registered civilian car. I was spoken to in a highly condescending manner, ordered out of my car and into theirs (I declined). I was breathalysed and found negative alcohol. Never seen two more disappointed looking coppers.

I was: Pursued by two in a Range Rover and given a ticket for what they said was an illegal towbar. It was a towbar manufactured by a mainstream UK company and the car had passed many MOTs and the RAFG BFG equivalent. They insisted the towball must be removed and the car re-inspected. I removed the towball there and then while they watched, turned it upside down and drove directly to the nearest RAF station (Gutersloh). I marched in to the guardroom and demanded to see the Duty Sergeant. The RAF policeman on the barrier came in and politely asked me why my towball was fitted upside down. I explained. He shrugged his shoulders and shook his head. I got the ticket signed, went outside and in front of the guardroom refitted the towball the right way up. Drove home, fitted my trailer the next day and went on holiday for a fortnight. Never had the same problem although I kept the car for three years longer.

I was: At a station football tournament at Gutersloh one Saturday and in the company of the Station Commander (Mike Stear). An RAF Policeman drove onto the site in his Landrover, immediately jumped out by the Staish's official car (a big shiny black one, complete with official flag flying) and proceeded to write a parking ticket which he then stuck on the windscreen. "WTF - Scuse ME"! said the Staish, marching over.... :*

The young plod made the mistake of arguing. He quickly lost and was off the station by Monday. :D

Many other stories, unfortunately not many put the RAFP in a good light. Having said that, some of them were fine chaps. Sadly, it seemed that the rot washed down from the top of the pile in many cases. :(