Why American Aviation is so Remarkable

[zalt]

This NTSB Report is a MUST read:
DFW08LA122 (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080505X00592&key=1)

No licence, re-built ex SSH R44 with no records, fatality, no accident report form filed...

Local press report with video. Not much of the aircraft left.
Helicopter crash injures 2 in Bartlett | News for Austin, Texas | KVUE.com | Top Stories (http://www.kvue.com/news/top/stories/042808kvuehelicoptercrash-cb.ab251e5f.html)

How come this guy isn't facing a homicide rap?

[No-ID]

This world is filled with idiots :ugh:

[KNIEVEL77]

Unbelievable!

Maybe flame retardant suits and helmets should be compulsary after all!

[IntheTin]

Apparently the passenger died 2 weeks later from burn injuries sustained from the crash. Another forum ran the story back in April. :(

[MartinCh]

Unbelievable!
Maybe flame retardant suits and helmets should be compulsary after all!

Yes, nomex etc clothing wouldn't hurt. I had similar long sleeve top (and thick trousers until it got way too hot) during my R22 flying last summer.
I did receive some laughs from others (even those who HAVE TO instruct in Nomex flightsuits) I'll get nomex gloves later on, once I'm better on stick and gloves won't impede my learning.

This story isn't about their clothing.
He's such absolutely reckless irresponsible tit it's hard to describe that person properly. Even more so taking another person onboard.

Many of us have seen that 0h TT proud 'teach yourself' owner of Schweizer 300 on youtube. Ehm.
What's amazing amongst all that 'helped' this accident to happen (it couldn't happen any other way, except severity of injuries),
is that the guy was already fixed wing pilot. (ehm, mate, just unpack it as lego, slot it in, put some gas and don't worry about that extra stick on the left, just yank it to get afloat. Jarred pedal or pineaple jar behind pedals?? C'mon. Jar instead of brain.)

I hope FAA or any other CAA would never allow him to pilot anything.
edit: yeah, also locking him up for a while for breaking law etc is appropriate, too.

[Gordy]

How come this guy isn't facing a homicide rap?

The legal system in the US takes time, just like most other countries. Give it time.

[DennisK]

All sounds a bit odd to me apart from the idiocy of a guy with little or zero rotary experience chancing his arm. Helicopter lifts ... whacks T/R on the raised bank behind and according to his report "spins left" Hardly correct as we all know!

How do we stop such guys without making an example and bringing in a pilot manslaughter charge or whatever the US guys call it.

DennisK

[ShyTorque]

Dennis, I don't think anyone can prevent folk like these from harming themselves (and those stupid enough to ride along with them). Unfortunately, it is often teenagers in cars but some never grow up or get more common sense.

As the saying goes, you can try as hard as you can to make something idiot proof. Then then just when you think you've got it cracked, along comes a better class of idiot.... :ugh:

[ramen noodles]

I don't think nationality captures the brand of idiocy that this tale defines:

I was a member of the EAA once upon a time, and met a fellow who was building his own helo. He went to great lengths to explain how he was going to teach himself to fly it, using tethers of ever-longer lengths. I asked him why he just didn't get an Instructor, and he acted insulted! He was German, BTW.

[rotorspin]

relax - its all part of nature's natural selection....

there really is no point in us getting in the way of nature....

:cool:

[TrakBall]

I know this is harsh but a science fiction writer put it best...

"Think of it as evolution in action".

Or better yet, chlorine in the gene pool.

TB

[Heli-Ice]

ST, RS & TB are right on it. All these new idiots keep nature very busy correcting things.

Ignorance can be fixed but stupidity not.

[SASless]

Ya'll seem to be missing the target with all yer shooting....it pays to draw fast...aim slow...not the other way around.




The Killer did not get killed....the victim got killed.

[Pugilistic Animus]

and furthermore I'm sure the poor passenger thought the guy was fully competent to fly it:(

did you all know that most folks think a pilot can fly everything ?
you should see the wide eyed stares I've gotten from people when I said "no I can't fly a chopper", "no I can't do logging operations in the mountains with a chopper", "no I can't do a roof top landing"..so what can you do with a chopper?.. I say, start the engine then make a very loud noise :ugh:

Don't worry the guy's finished, he'll never fly anything again and he most likely will go to prison for a long while:*


PA

[Shawn Coyle]

This is not just confined to the USA. I talked with the inventor of the Heli-D Wing back in the early 90's. Bizarre bit of kit that had no chance of getting airborne, and has since been added to my list of 'Flights of Fancy'.
The inventor didn't need any help from anyone. He was going to flight test this new device himself, even though he didn't have a private fixed wing license, let alone any helicopter time or any flight test / development flight time.
Fortunately, he couldn't raise the money he needed to get started, and all he got made were some interesting models...

[topendtorque]

I remember a story about a couple of sailors quite some years ago who tried to get into the spirit of an airshow at Nowra (an OZ Navy airbase) I think it was, wanted to to do a free demo in one her majesties machines.
It, ended up on the ground;
they, ended up in the slammer, but then sailors???

Then there's the story about the german bank robber who is travelling OZ. He knocked off a bank in Port Headland or some god forsaken West Oz joint- he had done some ab-initio instruction back in the fatherland, a couple of hours - and was looking for a novel fast getaway.
So he knocks off an Airfast '47, then left a clue as to his passing by leaving one skid hanging in the hangar roof and rolled the rest up just a ways further.

The story gets better, he stashes the loot in a roadside drain and hitches a lift south, then claiming he'd been robbed and mugged, presents at hospital to fix his wounds.

Meanwhile the local blacks kids find the loot, and immediately buy out the local pushbike shop, the coppers get sus, they send a wire to the hospital to - "immobilise him in plaster"

Old mate wokes he's been sprung, saws of his cast, escape from the hospital dunny window and wasn't seen for many a year if ever. an that's ridgy didge!

but there's been others, that present with a real live piece of paper saying that they're fully fledged pilots, and welllll ---??

[FH1100 Pilot]

DennisK notes:All sounds a bit odd to me apart from the idiocy of a guy with little or zero rotary experience chancing his arm. It's easy to assume that this guy had "little or zero" r/w experience. But the mere fact that he wasn't r/w rated doesn't prove that. If he felt comfortable enough to attempt to commit aviation with a passenger in an R-44, then we can assume he was not "RW: 0.0 TT."How do we stop such guys?We can't. People will continue to do stupid things - some of them with aircraft. Wishing that the FAA/CAA will never let them fly again is also dumb: The lack of a helicopter rating certainly didn't stop this guy, nor did the lack of an airworthy helicopter. Revocation of his certs would be no deterrent.

It's the same thing as enacting strict gun laws in the naive and futile hope that it will reduce gun-related crime, forgetting that criminals by nature are not law-abiding citizens. Dang it!

[topendtorque]

It's the same thing as enacting strict gun laws in the naive and futile hope that it will reduce gun-related crime, forgetting that criminals by nature are not law-abiding citizens. Dang it!


true, very true, but it sure as hell reduced the accidental gun deaths amongst the slower metamorphi.

especially those real rural slower types.

[SASless]

Orville and Wilbur did not have any licenses, training, or mentors or even a cook book to read on how to do it.....but they figured it out okay!

Ah...but then that is American Aviation for you....along with a bit of other odd bits thrown in...Apollo, Space Shuttle, Rutan, Lindbergh, Boeing, Blackbird, Phantom, B-52, DC-3, Huey, Chinook....Gann, Bach...yeah....nothing much to brag about over here is there?:rolleyes:

[topendtorque]

without any disrespect for Orville, Wilbur and things american, there is a gentleman -immortalised in OZ in some of our past currency and stamps - who really got the kite flying.


From Google

Lawrence Hargrave
1850-1915

The Wright brothers had access to Hargrave's work through the aviation annuals published by James Means, and Octave Chanute's Progress in Flying Machines.
Chanute, who corresponded with the Wright brothers, devoted a section of his book to Hargrave's experiments. But the Wright brothers, constrained by politics and patent problems of their time, admitted no influences


as far as test flying goes, I'll go with Hanna Reitsch and especially John Glenn when things got a bit outa hand on his flight - up there.

[Airspeedintervention]

Keep in mind this occured in Texas ! Not really part of the US, we only claim it for the mineral rights. If you would like to become VERY wealthy merely open an automobile brake repair shop or Body shop there....you would do very well indeed.

[ramen noodles]

topend,

Hate to burst your bubble, but one of the Wright bros early findings was that Octave Chanute didn't know beans about lift, drag or control, so if Chanute learned stuff from Hargrave, it fell on deaf ears.

When the Wrights tried to measure the "laws" that were previously taken as gospel, they were astounded that their wind tunnel data proved most of the prior work to be drivel. The wind tunnel work done by the Wrights established the field of aeronautical science as we know it. No other previous experimenter had developed lateral control, nor did they characterize the essence of lift, moment, power and drag to any usable degree. The concepts that were previously used were essentially unworkable, but impressive to newspaper reporters and debunkers who would flood the field once the Wrights flew.

In doubt? Find one reference to airfoil drag/power relationships in any other previous or contemporary work. Or pitching moment, stall characteristics or lateral control. Without some mastry of these concepts, controlled flight was not possible, even if a statue exists in every country on the planet where a favorite son "flew" some kind of device "years before the Wrights."

[[email protected]]

Senior Pilot - if you are going to delete post which are critical of American aviation will you do the same to the jingoistic high-fiving of Sasless' post (which has nothing to do with the thread or with helicopters)?

[outofwhack]

Dear Mr Noodles,

Since you asked - here's a couple of examples of a reference to airfoil drag/power relationships in the work of Sir George Cayley, a British scientist, in the early 1800s.

Sir George Cayley – Making Aviation Practical (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Prehistory/Cayley/PH2.htm)
Sir George Cayley Research | Find Sir George Cayley Articles | Encyclopedia.com: FREE Online Dictionary, Encyclopedia, Articles And Pictures! (http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Sir_George_Cayley.aspx)

In a nutshell: George Cayley knew he didnt have a suitably light engine to provide the power required.

100 years later The Wright Brothers did have access to such an engine [not to mention the research of George Cayley].

I think its better to say that the work of many, over a large timespan, contributed to the development of the aeroplane.

OOW

[vaqueroaero]

It would appear that this kind of thing is actually not that unusual.

I had a phone call from a young flight instructor a few months ago seeking advice. Apparently a guy had arrived in an R44 seeking flight instruction. When asked for his medical/student pilot certificate he replied that he didn't possess one. He had learned to fly helicopters by strapping a 5 bar gate to the skids of an R22 and reading some books.

When I suggested that the first thing they do was to go and get a student pilot certificate it was discovered that it was not possible as the guy had lied on a previous application about not having any drunk driving offences. He used to possess a medical, but had had it revoked by the FAA.
I then recommended that the instructor politely tell the guy that he was unable to help him.

This was a good ol' Texas rancher.

[SASless]

I doth think Crab protests too much....your corns getting stepped on are they ol' buddy!

I will be more careful where I walk in the future.

[topendtorque]

The formula that Noodles asked about are clearly evident in Hargraves and the others work, as was notes on the manned flight testing in towed glider mode, in mastering the tricks of control every which way.

I also believed and still do that the true merit of the Kittyhawk experiments was their invention of an engine light enough to do the trick.

Research is a compellingly interesting subject I often find, for instance who would have thought that the first powered flight in OZ was acheived by the illusionist Houdini. The first one to do it in a craft of his own construction, a gentleman by name of Badgery, a la Badgerys creek, site of the proposed second airport for sydney.

And speaking of doing silly things in machines aeronautical, another of the same Badgery's line, Peter, later had a bbit of explaining to do when the P51 that he was flying when supposedly doing formation intercept practise at 33,000 feet had an engine failure due to its radiator being stuffed full of galah feathers. The aircraft sat on the mud flats near Townsville for many years.
My dear old departed dad, his flight leader at the time reckoned it was an 'interesting conversation' that he had with the boss later, at attention of course.

[[email protected]]

Sasless - terribly sorry - you Yanks invented everything for you are so very great and like, totally amazing at everything. I'm sure if we were to know the ultimate truth of life, the universe and everything it would have 'made in USA' stamped on the back. In fact weren't the Dea Sea Scrolls actually written in Wisconsin and didn't the Rosetta Stone come from Rosetta, Idaho?

[ferrydude]

"I also believed and still do that the true merit of the Kittyhawk experiments was their invention of an engine light enough to do the trick."

"their invention"? "They" didn't invent the engine, their Mechanic, Charles Taylor did.:)

[Senior Pilot]

This was an intrinsically interesting thread, which has deteriorated into an effort to either denigrate or praise Things American. Quite why some posters are so obsessed is beyond me, but enough is enough :ugh: