OXFORD/KIDLINGTON

[captainyonder]

Air Southwest are to operate every Saturday from Oxford to Jersey from July 11th until September 12th. First commercial route from Oxford since the unsuccessful Oxford-Cambridge link.

[GBALU53]

Could this be the start of something bigger for the region?

[LGS6753]

Does Kidlington have a proper passenger terminal building? Customs?

[davidjohnson6]

Has an Eastern to Newcastle or Flybe to Edinburgh route been considered ?

Cambridge was a nice idea, but students (and some academics !) will put up with 3h15 on a much cheaper coach. Relatively few biotech firms have offices in both of the science parks.

[Bearcat]

my old cub used to operate as a crop sprayer for farm aviation services operating ex kidlington in the 1960's and 70's. A bit of useless info....cub still going!!

[stue]

Does Kidlington have a proper passenger terminal building? Customs?

Oxford (Kidlington) Airport EGTK/OXF - Air Transport Solutions For Oxfordshire, Thames Valley & The Cotswolds - Fly Oxford (http://www.oxfordairport.co.uk/)

Just built a new terminal with all the trimmings.

[GAMPY]

Well the fares had better be cheap or else everyone will still go down the road to SOU with Flybe!

[captainyonder]

Seems to be a flat fare of £75 each way all in. Could work. There's limited potential at Oxford for services to MAN, GLA, EDI, and NCL I think. Suprised Eastern or Flybe haven't really made a go of it yet.

[davidjohnson6]

Oxford-Manchester being viable by air would be tough. There's a direct train every hour taking 3 hours. Allowing for a single change at Birmingham, there's a train every 30 mins throughout the day. Oxford likes to spin itself as being part of the south-east and close to London, but geographically it's just as close to Birmingham

[Dash-7 lover]

It's a charter for Channel Islands Travel Service

[ATCO Fred]

Air Southwest are to operate every Saturday from Oxford to Jersey from July 11th until September 12th. First commercial route from Oxford since the unsuccessful Oxford-Cambridge link.

Could this be the start of something bigger for the region?

Well it happened! Oxford (Kidlington) Airport EGTK/OXF - News - First Commercial Flights from Oxford in 20 Years (http://www.oxfordairport.co.uk/news/first_commercial_flights.htm)

And yes - more to follow.....apparently:oh: First though, a sizeable apron extension

[Boeing 77W]

First though, a sizeable apron extension
They'll be able to handle jets of a similar size to the A318!

[Winniebago]

They seem to have spent lots on the infrastructure to be able to take the Air Southwest Dash-8-300s with the new runway,ILS,terminal,fire and rescue, security etc. but that was all for business aviation. Looks like the business aviation ambitions may have stalled so they are getting into scheduled stuff. If they had a proper terminal, going up and down the M40 makes it a better bet than another runway at Heathrow!

With a 1552m runway you can get in the Q400 easily and some of the Embraer jet family,RJs, 146s etc. even the A318, Sukoi Superjet etc.

All the VFR pilot training side was moved to Arizona so they are dead quiet now, so masses of capacity and no restrictions on commercial traffic like Farnborough or Biggin Hill.

Twice daily to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dublin, Amsterdam, Newcastle etc. would seem to make sence with anything from 19-seaters to Dash-8s or ATRs. Summer charters to Jersey and winter runs to the ski resorts and at the heart of the home counties and Thames Valley area they've got an affluent catchment area.

Makes quite a lot of sence? Next stop would be global hub at Upper Heyford with high speed rail doing 45 minutes into Marylebone. Forget Heathrow and Stansted runway - go west (O.K. north-west-ish).

Note this is in David Cameron's back yard?!

[4whites]

Wasn't Oxford - Cambridge tried a few years ago by Rangemile Aviation? Would some form of Air Southwest style Plymouth/Newquay setup not work using B1900s or J31s, for example Oxford-Cambridge-Edinburgh or Oxford-Cambridge-Newcastle etc?

I trained in Oxford at the very beginning of my training for my ATPLs etc and the airport seems to have a good catchment area and a lot of potential. Someone like Manx2 or Eastern would be a good starting point, maybe with Flybe coming along later?

[Expressflight]

I think Oxford may well have potential for limited scheduled/charter services in the future using Q400/ATR type aircraft, although remember that it's declared distances are limited to 1319m due to its runway width of only 30m, so the full 1552m is not useable for PT ops.

[Groundloop]

Twice daily to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dublin, Amsterdam, Newcastle etc.

Dream on. Just as well you don't work in an airline's planning department.

[Dash-7 lover]

One thing OXF needs to consider is adequate radar coverage. Brize will cover you down to 3000 ft but that's it 'most' of the time. There are many issues with regard to the proximity of other airfields and the large amount of non 'mode c' traffic.

[airvanman]

Groundloop why not? A good catchment area. Better than flying from the bigger airports nearby. Possibly you would get cheaper parking, a friendlier experience, & quicker boarding etc. Who thought GLO would do as well as it does! I think an airline like Air Southwest could do well at Oxford trying other routes.

[goatface]

Airvanman

Purely because, other than the Jersey service - which is good news but hardly rocket science and, I suspect being operated at a significant cost to the airport company, it's all pie in the sky.
Common business sense dictates that Oxford will never be able to sevice such markets.
Amsterdam is a non starter because there isn't an airline with an interline agreement with KLM which operates an aeroplane capable of operating from Oxford.

Additionally, Oxford does not have the terminal or handling facilites to operate more than one aircraft such as a DCH8 at any one time - assuming that a 1319m runway will alow a fully loaded DHC8to operate anywhere (I think not).

Oxford should stick to what it's good at - GA and executive aviation, anything else will never make them money and will, without a doubt lead to significant financial pain.

[Avioactive]

Goatface - so what if they can only handle one rotation at a time? If they can only do one at a time, that's what they'll do. In one day they could still comfortably do say four or five rotations of 50-seaters, spread through the day. Stick a few Portakabins down like say Coventry and bring in a few more staff and you could easily do more.

Clearly, the fact that they are doing one 50-seat rotation already today means they are already there, all the infrastructure for that to be legitimate is there now. There are no obstructions to them doing more other than manpower and elbow room.

OXF is at least an hour from any other option be that BHX, LHR, SOU so the catchment area is good, prosperous, business-oriented etc. If the experiance is hassle-free at the airport, there are people living on Heathrow's doorstep that would drive 45 minutes up the M40 to travel from a 'regional' airport. People in Swindon, Northampton, Reading, Oxford, Milton-Keynes etc. would give serious consideration to going there instead of say Luton, Bristol etc.

I can't see what the problem is - the runway is exactly the same as LCY and now they've got all the boring stuff sorted - RFF, ILS, Security etc.

Good luck to them - got to be good for UK aviation in general, a new commercial opportunity? Otherwise it will be a housing estate in 10 years - probably the direction Coventry is going in - sadly!

[airvanman]

Avioactive. Let's start Morse Air. I like Dash 7s. Going cheap and very juicy but what the hell!! ;)

[jerboy]

Is opening OXF up for commercial routes really for the best? Granted its a feather in the cap for the management/local government for introducing the 'first commercial flights in 20 years', but unless they get continued guaranteed business, it may just prove to be a waste of time/money.

Whichever way you look at it, 10-12 flights over the course of the summer isn't going to cover the cost of setting up security, terminal improvements, runway extensions etc etc.

It doesn't even benefit the Oxford economy either; the pax are all locals going TO Jersey for their holidays. Very few, if any will be Jersey people travelling to Oxford (the aircraft was certainly empty on JER-OXF last week). The airline isn't local either. Therefore all money from the operation is drained into Plymouth or Jersey; especially if (as mentioned above) the route may be subsidised.

Remember what we're seeing in the UK at the moment is a contraction of demand for air travel, and the consolidation of routes to major airports. Very few airlines will be willing to branch out in to new markets in the near future to bring OXF the scheduled service it would need to carry on as a commercial airport.

That said, GLO is coming along succesfully. And if OXF manages to attract Manx2, Blueislands or similar; there may be a future in it.

[Buster the Bear]

As a passenger I would be more concerned about flying outside Controlled Airspace in an area 'thick' with light aviation on any nice day during a summer weekend!

[DutchBird-757]

I did my training at OAT and we didn't have an ILS up and running? So what's the latest on that?

With the Pipers moved to Goodyear, AZ, there should be no problem with apron space. Just upgrade the bus link from Oxford to the airport rather than once on monday and once on friday. ;)

[Joffyh]

I did my training at OAT and we didn't have an ILS up and running? So what's the latest on that?

Cat I ILS on RWY 19 and the runway has now been enlarged to 1319m x 30m. Large extensions to current apron space are planned, and the bus now goes to the airport several times a day :}

[ATCO Fred]

Hi guys - just a few facts to enlighten the debate!

All the VFR pilot training side was moved to Arizona so they are dead quiet now, so masses of capacity and no restrictions on commercial traffic like Farnborough or Biggin Hill.

I'm afraid you are miss-informed: True, the VFR side of OOA has moved to the states but that still leaves a dozen or so PA34 for mixed IFR and VFR training (flying 3 to 5 times a day) coupled with a sizeable clutch of GA & GA training and an increasing fleet of based Biz jets. Just ask the OOA instructors; getting an IFR slot at Oxford is becoming increasingly difficult. Due in the main to App Procedural - radar would provide significant extra capacity.

One thing OXF needs to consider is adequate radar coverage. Brize will cover you down to 3000 ft but that's it 'most' of the time. There are many issues with regard to the proximity of other airfields and the large amount of non 'mode c' traffic.

With its increasing growth in business/commercial traffic Radar is a serious consideration at this time. BTW - Brize work some, not all, of the Oxford traffic within the hours of LARS (7days a week 0900L-1700L!)

Purely because, other than the Jersey service - which is good news but hardly rocket science and, I suspect being operated at a significant cost to the airport company, it's all pie in the sky.


Not so - it's the airlines that choose the routes not the airport. And there will be others.....

Additionally, Oxford does not have the terminal or handling facilites to operate more than one aircraft such as a DCH8 at any one time - assuming that a 1319m runway will alow a fully loaded DHC8to operate anywhere (I think not).

Absolutely - you'd have to be a fool to run 2 commercial flights a day and have them at the same time thus doubling resources - give management some credit:uhoh:

Whichever way you look at it, 10-12 flights over the course of the summer isn't going to cover the cost of setting up security, terminal improvements, runway extensions etc etc.

OR you could look at it the way it actually happened and say some clever person/company saw the potential; had the balls to fund some capital expenditure and provide the upgrades/services upfront and then saw what that attracted.

It doesn't even benefit the Oxford economy either; the pax are all locals going TO Jersey for their holidays. Very few, if any will be Jersey people travelling to Oxford (the aircraft was certainly empty on JER-OXF last week).

OR The first flight (the only one before your post jerboy) was one way only (positioning into Oxford). AND, the local population having the choice for the first time in many years to fly from their local airport for a quick week away choose to do so. And let’s not forget its being marketed as Oxford to Jersey and not the other way round:ugh:

Quote from Jersey Airport - New Air Service from Oxford (http://www.gov.je/EconomicDevelopment/Airport/newairservicefromoxford.htm)dated 8th July.

The summer charter service is being operated by CI Travel Group who offers both inclusive holidays to Jersey as well as flight only. According to the company’s Managing Director, Robert Mackenzie, interest in the service is exceptionally high with the first flight already full. He said, “Demand for this new air route has been very high and already over 70% of seats have been sold.

The future: Oxford Airport, UK will be the new venue for the forthcoming VLJ-Europe 2009 event, the only dedicated conference focused on operations in the entry level and light jet arena. Organised by MIU Events, this year’s event will combine an opportunity to see some of the latest entry level jets With up to 5 new phenom based at TK by Christmas.

Quote from ainonline dated 12 May.Oxford Airport steps up investment in London-area bizav gateway: AIN Online (http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/oxford-airport-steps-up-investment-in-london-area-bizav-gateway/)

“We have seen a 33-percent growth in traffic since the last EBACE show,” said managing director Steve Jones. “We have almost reached our initial goal of 5,000 business aviation movements a year, but there has been a slowdown in the last six months. However, we have still grown by 10 percent at a time when the rest of the UK market is about 25 percent down, and the rest of Europe is about 20 percent.”

Not much to add to that really. :ok:

[4whites]

HOLIDAYMAKERS and businessmen could soon be able to fly from Oxford Airport to European cities such as Amsterdam, Paris and Geneva, it emerged last night.
Bosses at the Kidlington-based airport have been in discussion with several operators about starting daily business flights to European capitals, as well as offering further weekly charter flights for tourists.
There has never been a charter flight from Kidlington to mainland Europe in the airport’s 70-year history, but a raft of destinations will be confirmed by the end of the year, with planes expected to fly out in 2010.
James Dillon Godfray, head of marketing and development, said routes being discussed for daily business flights included Geneva, Amsterdam, Paris, Brussels, Dublin, Belfast and Newcastle on weekdays.

Source:
Oxford Airport ready for take off with new euro holiday destinations (From Oxford Mail) (http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/4501118.Oxford_Airport_ready_for_take_off_with_new_euro_holi day_destinations/)

Looks like it's actually going to happen anyway!

[jerboy]

OR The first flight (the only one before your post jerboy) was one way only (positioning into Oxford). AND, the local population having the choice for the first time in many years to fly from their local airport for a quick week away choose to do so. And let’s not forget its being marketed as Oxford to Jersey and not the other way round

I'm well aware the flight positioned out to OXF empty... I was directly involved with that flight. The only point I'm trying to make is; with no Jersey residents 'holidaying' in Oxford there is no benefit to the Oxford economy, especially if OXF are offering reduced rates or even subsidising the service.

I don't blame people living around Oxford for taking advantage of the service, its just at the moment I can't see it making any financial sense.

Oxford Airport, UK will be the new venue for the forthcoming VLJ-Europe 2009 event, the only dedicated conference focused on operations in the entry level and light jet arena. Organised by MIU Events, this year’s event will combine an opportunity to see some of the latest entry level jets

That's great, but the facilities required for business aviation are completely different to scheduled services (check in, security, 'mass' baggage handling for example.)

several operators about starting daily business flights to European capitals

It'd be great to see OXF flourish develop into a niche airport. GLO (and PLH) is a nice example of how it can be done. However on the flipside there are many smaller airports which have either seen a reduction in services, or are losing a lot of money. MME (loss of WW a few years ago), LBA (loss of BD LHR service), DSA (never really 'took off' in the way it was planned), NWI (closure of BE base) are just a few examples. Many of them rely on the bucket-and-spade charters to bring in the money which OXF won't have the luxury of doing.

For new business flights small a/c would have to be used (due to the short runway). Fares would therefore have to be pretty high to make such services pay... At the moment its a pretty risky strategy. I think OXF management will have a tough job convincing enough people away from the hour(ish) drive LHR, LTN or BHX and the greater range of destinations and cheaper fares offered there.

[MUFC_fan]

I would hardly put GLO in league near PLH - which is near the bottom! Wick has as many flights!

[jerboy]

In terms of business aviation yes GLO has a much higher number of movements. But for scheduled operations PLH would by far have a higher number of pax: 2 based aircraft rotating through PLH throughout the day, 50 seats per flight compared to 19... it all adds up.

Its true that business aviation brings in more cash, but wouldn't SHH have pulled the plug on the ASW base and PLH itself a long time ago if it were that unprofitable?

If OXF can model themselves on GLO with the right mix of business aviation to scheduled ops they could do well... But as I mentioned above it is a very niche market that they will have to fight for.

[Romaro]

Can’t help feeling some people are missing the point here – Oxford’s arguably in a fantastic location, wealthy area (relatively), halfway between Heathrow and Birmingham with a pretty substantial population within an hour’s drive. No competition in fact for an hour or more in any direction.
A handful of flights a week (not 10 a day, more like two or three say?) are easy to handle so long as you have the amenities and the resources – which clearly they do now. They’ve got a mix of GA, some business aviation and now, potentially a couple of commercial flights a day too. If they have about 45,000 movements a year (according to their website - Oxford Airport EGTK/OXF - Annual Movements (http://www.oxfordairport.co.uk/overview/gallery/movements.htm)) that’s about 60 landings a day – for any aircraft types, that’s just nothing compared to what they used to have, used to be thre times that ten years ago.
If you are benchmarking potential against models elsewhere, if you can fill a handful of flights a day out of say Plymouth with Newquay and Exeter down the road, Oxford has absolutely no problem whatsoever doing the same with more people with more money and more businesses on it’s doorstep.

[Winniebago]

What's the biggest bus you can get into/out of Oxford?

There's 1319m TORA/TODA/ASDA/LDA but 1552m of actual paved runway to play with.

Q400 ought to be no problem, but what about the Embraer family of jets or for that matter the A318, Fokker 70/100, Bombardier CRJ family etc?

Presumably, one could take off pax and/or fuel to get some of the jets using it practically? If so what's max range on some of those jets with full pax?

[Expressflight]

The paved length of 1552m is really irrelevant as you're talking PT movements so the declared distances are what count. So you've got distances the same as at LCY but without the performance gains that the 5.5° glideslope gives you LDR-wise. Restricted payloads due to limiting runways are not popular with operators unless there is some other imperative for using a particular airfield, and that won't apply at Kindlington.

I reckon it will be limited to Q400/ATR types and below, although that still doesn't rule out limited passenger schedules and charters. I also wouldn't underestimate the appeal that small airports have for some travellers who hate the hassle they normally encounter.

Mind you, not a good time to be launching new, untried routes I wouldn't have thought.

[4whites]

Could Oxford not be the perfect place for a J31/B1900 type setup operating to a limited number of destinations? Maybe Edinburgh on a daily basis plus a couple of times a week to Dublin/Paris/Amsterdam etc. Beyond that I can't see it really having the potential to be the size of Exeter in terms of scheduled operations, but there is certainly some money to be made on niche routes.

[Romaro]

Have you seen the website? They're called 'London Oxford Airport' all of a sudden!

I think there's a bit more to all this than meets the eye?

[OAGAG]

How long has our airport been called 'London Oxford Airport' - it wasn't last week??!!

[4whites]

No word of a lie, Romaro is right! What the heck?! Surely Oxford is a big enough city to sustain it's own airport, it doesn't need to be another London airport!! Would it not make more sense to call it something like Oxford Thames Valley Airport if they are going to insist on going along with this stupid name changing. Oxford is no where near London! It's a good 55 miles away!

[MUFC_fan]

It's a good 55 miles away


Gerona, Reus, Hahn...

[4whites]

All Ryanair destinations! Oxford cannot accept 737-800s, Ryanair and easyJet are never going to come to Oxford, nor are any other LoCos. Oxford is a business airport, it doesn't make sense to associate it with another airport nearly 60 miles away. Plus Oxford is a well known enough City to merit it's own airport.

[MUFC_fan]

All Ryanair destinations! Oxford cannot accept 737-800s, Ryanair and easyJet are never going to come to Oxford, nor are anything LoCos. Oxford is a business airport, it doesn't make sense to associate it with another airport nearly 60 miles away. Plus Oxford is a well known enough City to merit it's own airport.


I wasn't meaning to make any relation to the low costs but I understand your point - Oxford is a business airfield but when LTN, STN, LGW, LHR, LCY etc. all fill up - London traffic is going to have to go somewhere and although passenger numbers are falling, there will come a time when there is simply no more room at the big five.

[4whites]

While I don't agree that a time will come when the current five London airports are all filled up, surely in the unlikely event that that were to happen then Southend, Lydd, Manston etc would take the strain?

[Winniebago]

obviously bored on a monday night - London Oxford Winston Churchill C.S.Lewis Inspector Morse University Airport is exactly 39.9 miles from Hillingdon (Greater London) which you might argue qualifies it for 'London' status don't you think?

If you lived say in Notting Hill, you're going to get to OXF quicker than it would take to get to Stansted - no question whatsoever.

Forget public transport, anyone in the markete to fly 'regional' drives.

[paully]

Just as well it cant take 737-800`s.........Less than 40 miles from London...O Leary would have a field day with it :rolleyes:

[Dash-7 lover]

jerboy

a few stats for you - up to 14 departures a day from PLH with 3 aircraft and 14 a day from NQY with 2. The JER-OXF is charter series for people wanting to go from the UK to JER and not the other way on behalf of Channel Islands Travel Service.

[WOWBOY]

Found this article about Oxford

Basically it says by 2010 they are planning to have;

Daily services to:
Geneva, Amsterdam, Paris, Brussels, Dublin, Belfast and Newcastle

Weekly services to:
Plymouth, Newquay and Sion

It is an interesting read. Hope they succesfully start these services up. not sure about any specific airlines that would sucessfully operate these in there route network. x

[LTNman]

There has never been a charter flight from Kidlington to mainland Europe in the airport’s 70-year history, but a raft of destinations will be confirmed by the end of the year, with planes expected to fly out in 2010.

One off's maybe but there will never be flights from the likes of Thomson. Luton used to be a pure charter airport not so long ago but the tour operators like to keep most of their South East aircraft at Gatwick these days as they force many holidaymakers to use Gatwick. If Luton today is almost devoid of IT traffic then there is no chance for Oxford.

[FlyboyUK]

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Oxfordshire | 'London' airport name change row (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/8205130.stm)

So it's now London Oxford!

[LGS6753]

London - Oxford sounds more like a route than an airport!:ok:

[0523 cov man]

what next london coventry or london birmingham.
0523 covman

[Romaro]

Whether a cynical ploy to enhance the perceived value of the airport overnight or not, the owners of ‘London Oxford Airport’ sure have gained a staggering amount of publicity in the last 24 hours – all presumably for free. Almost every national newspaper has covered the story and numerous websites, the BBC, ITV even CNBC!
I suspect there’s a lot more to this name change than meets the eye. Think long, long term – secure that name and when someone converts say Upper Heyford, RAF Brize Norton or RAF Benson into a major international hub instead of that daft idea for another airport in the Thames estuary (anyone heard of bird-strike risks?), you close down Kidlington and hey-presto, you’ve got the brand name of potentialy one of the world’s largest international hubs. High speed rail link like the Shanghai monorail into Marleybone or north-west London somewhere and you are 25-30 minutes away from central London.
This isn’t about Oxford/Kidlington Airport, that said, there’s no reason why they can’t have say 20+ Q400 flights a day out of there to a number of European destinations tomorrow. I’d drive past Heathrow to fly from a hassle-free regional airport any day - outside the London TMA too, no delays.
Thinking about it, I bet it’s got something to do with scuppering Farnborough’s bid to increase their capacity limit – why on earth allow Farnborough a 70% increase when ‘London Oxford’s’ got unlimited capacity??

[DutchBird-757]

What a joke! Has anyone ever tried getting into actual London from Oxford/Kidlington Airport? Well, from experience I can tell you it ain't pleasent and it takes bloody ages. Will suit RYR just fine...

[Mooncrest]

Utterly bizarre. Why must we have this crackpot perception that this whole bloody country revolves around London ? Oxford is Oxford, Leeds is Leeds, Glasgow is Glasgow and Luton is Luton.

[mary meagher]

Can't wait for my transatlantic United 777 to touch down at Kidlington.

Oxford Airport has sprouted a brand new expensive sign at the Langford Lane roundabout that proudly proclaims

LONDON - OXFORD AIRPORT

Actually, that might work, if they sent the Oxford Tube express bus to London around that way, its only 70 miles to go. . . . .

Is this all a cunning plan to fool the unwary stranger? Can anyone name another airport this far from the supposed destination, aside from Dulles/Friendship/Washington DC.......

[beach_life]

Ryanair - Book Cheap Flights to Europe - Cheap Flights from the UK (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/)

[NotDanish]

New Ryanair destination! :hmm:

[CargoMatatu]

Nope! It's too CLOSE to London to be a Ryanair destination! :ugh:

[one post only!]

Its closer than London - Bournemouth!!!

[bingo 21]

London Lydd is my favourite

[Flyluke]

Dumb-ass marketeers strike again - who will be taken in by this nonsense?

They are heading in the geographic direction for London Lulsgate to be with us soon

[mrmrsmith]

Glasgow "Preswick" Oslo "Torp" to name but a few Oh just remembered another Barcelona "Reus"

[rainer wolfcastle]

My two cents worth: In the early 90's I remember a charter operator, the name of which now escapes me, attempted to set up a scheduled weekend return service between EGTK and JJ using a Shorts 360. It lasted all of one week, then ceased operations. All this with the existing facilites though.

[Jerbourg]

Would that have been Capital, they operated lots of weekend charters into EGJJ about that time if I remeber correctly?

[rainer wolfcastle]

It could have been, I really can't remember. I hope that it does work out because it would ultimately be good for the airport, but my point is that it's been tried before...

[Bearface]

Frankfurt Hahn...actually as close to Luxembourg than it is to Frankfurt...

[4whites]

Well the weekly JER flights have been very successful this season and I would very much expect that we'll see them back again next year. As to whether anything else more regular out of OXF would work, well, I guess we'll have to just wait and see. I have a feeling that EDI could work though!

[Expressflight]

OXF-JER "very successful this season"?

Looks like a 58% loadfactor for July according to the CAA provisional stats.

[4whites]

They have been totally sold out for the vast majority of the flights since they started earlier in the summer. Taking into account the return flights from Jersey then maybe I can see the load factors being slightly lower as some have chosen to come back earlier in the week with Flybe etc.

[J-Guy]

The figures from the CAA suggest a 93% load factor (233 passengers) for the three Saturdays in July that the flight operated, albeit excluding the first positioning flight from Jersey to Oxford. C.I. Travel appear to be pleased with the response to the service and all indications suggest the flight will operate next summer too.

[Expressflight]

Yes, sorry. Totally my mistake.

I hadn't checked that the service didn't commence until 11 July.

A very successful first season, as 4whites said.

[jerboy]

I've heard rumours of 2xweekly JER-OXF next year. Whether there is any base to this is unclear. It wouldn't surprise me as every flight this year has been pretty much full.

[Boeing 77W]

The flights are confirmed for next summer, currently one Saturday departure a week.

the Airport is delighted to confirm that an increased range of departure dates are now on sale for Summer 2010 Looks as though they've extended the season.

Oxford (Kidlington) Airport EGTK/OXF - Oxford-Jersey Flights (http://www.oxfordairport.co.uk/services/jersey_flights2.htm)

[airhumberside]

CH Aviation reports Baboo will start weekly seasonal Geneva flights from December 19th, yet they aren't on sale on their website, and I can't find any mention of them on the airport website. Mistake, or a new ski season service?

[OltonPete]

airhumberside

Seems so, reported on the Ski Club website.

This seems ambitious even considering the wealth in this area.

Latest News - Ski Club of Great Britain (http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?intStoryID=6719)



Pete

[4whites]

Twice a day!!! Is that not slight overkill? Don't get me wrong, it's great to see any expansion in these economic times, but I'm guessing Baboo will be using the Q400 on the route, that's 156 seats to fill EACH WAY every single day for over three months! The Jersey route and ill faited Cambridge service are all the airport has seen in recent times in terms of passenger flights, this seems like one hell of an ambitious punt. Good luck to all involved nonetheless, really hope it works out for them!

[dc9-32]

Here's a thought.

Summer 2010

Eastern Airways

M-F

HUY-NQY-OXF-HUY-NQY-CBG-HUY

Sa

HUY-NQY-CBG-HUY

Su
HUY-NQY-OXF-HUY

Any takers :mad:

[LGWAlan]

The Baboo flights are once weekly - not twice daily!

[Jamesair]

That certainly sounds more logical and achievable.

[OAGAG]

OXF-GVA starts 19th December each Saturday with ticketing option to mix and match between LCY flights twice a day or OXF on Saturdays. £89 all inclusive plus skis are carried at no extra cost. Could well be extended to more regular services moving forward.

Fits in with OXF-JER flights for summer season, likewise on Saturdays.

Wealthiest catchment area in the UK outside of London so ought to be a winner.

[Shingles]

Baboo have announced they'll be flying weekly to Geneva over the winter season - Saturday ski flights from mid December.

[Otto Throttle]

Well I hope none of these pax are planning to see their bags and skis arrive in GVA when they do. The Q400 is not a good a/c for ski flights, and especially not from a fairly limiting runway with regard to TO performance.

[ATCO Fred]

Best Business Aviation Airport as voted by the Airport Operators Association : Oxford (Kidlington) Airport EGTK/OXF - Oxford Airport win Award for Best Business Aviation Airport (http://www.oxfordairport.co.uk/news/oxford_airport_win_award.htm)

Air Babboo flights to Geneva start on Saturday!

[Romaro]

First international scheduled flight today from Oxford to Geneva. No snow on the ground unlike Luton and other 'London' airports yesterday.

Shame the likes of Farnborough (or Biggin Hill for that matter) aren't allowed to do scheduled services - no need for a third runway at Heathrow if these three airports between them took up some of the regional stuff.

[Oxjob]

Hi there!

Long time reader, first time poster, thought it was about time I got involved!

Does anyone know what the loads have been like on the Oxford - Geneva flights so far? I only counted 6 coming off todays inbound GVA flight. Even on a Q400 that can't be profitable?

Thought I might as well pay some attention to my local airport, things seem to be going from strength to strength there.

Rgds,
Oxjob

[horatio_b]

Reported to have been 33 pax on yesterday's flight to
Geneva

[Oxjob]

Any idea of how the loads were on the 19th? It doesn't sounds as though it's been as well publicised at the Jersey services were back in the summer.

[Oxjob]

Any news on the loads on the GVA flights? Have they improved at all, they were looking a little lackluster at times.

[ChalfontFlyer]

Oxjob - According to the CAA stats for the flights to GVA, December = 90 pax & January = 157 pax, so not really anything special.

[ChalfontFlyer]

Regarding the EDI route, if it cannot be re-started by the incumbent then as mentioned earlier on the Air Southwest thread could they be interested? After all they are familiar with operating out of OXF & have a new aircraft due shortly.
Alternatively would Eastern be prepared to give it a go with their J41's?

[Boeing 77W]

We won't see ASW in Oxford while there's no radar

[Wycombe]

....but they obviously felt happy to operate to JER on Summer Saturdays last year, when arguably the class G would be more of a concern than on a dull day in March.

Or was it that experience that is driving your comment?

[Pilot Positive]

Whilst the incumbent's current and past credibilty has to be very closely questioned (what? another financial disagreement???? :eek: ) the nature of the route itself may prove to be considerably more viable. From what I understand, take up with Varsity was reasonably strong.

This could be a very nice little earner for a more serious and credible start up.....:ok:

If you're interested here's the link to the full Oxford Mail article - it sheds a little more light on the incumbent.

Edinburgh flights grounded a week after launch (From Oxford Mail) (http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/5050208.Edinburgh_flights_grounded_a_week_after_launch/?ref=mr)


PP

[Boeing 77W]

Or was it that experience that is driving your comment?
:ok:
I don't know the full details but I've been told they won't go back until something is done about Radar

[goldeneye]

What about BE starting EDI with one of the Loganair Saab 340's, if Varsity had a good take up maybe BE can make a go of it.

Any thoughts ?

[This is a crisis]

It is incredible that airports still seem to be taken in by these new airlines that suddenly appear.

Is this the same Mr Halstead that set up Alpha Airlines (or something like that) a year or two ago? They tried to operate a service in the Isle of Man. One launch flight then the whole operation ceased!

Surely there must be some input from the CAA in all this?

[OAGAG]

Lots of chat about this back at OXF. Looks like they gave the chap a chance - again, as a local entrepreneur, but somewhat regret it now!!

Almost all the forward flights were full and there were clearly over 500 seats sold after just five day's flying - on an 18 seater at that.

Looks like someone else will pick up on what is probably one of the best untapped routes left in the domestic UK market - EDI and OXF amongst the most visited cities in the UK and yet served by a diabolical train service - six hours versus the hour and a bit on the old Jetstream.

With HS2 (the fabled High Speed Rail) in 2026 (if we are lucky), there's a bit of breathing space to capitalise on this juicy route.

In the meantime, OXF will finish the GVA flights when the snow melts and start the Jersey runs in May which are likely to be full again, as they were last year.

Forget the third runway at Heathrow, this is where it is at!

[Tupperware Pilot]

It's a shame that it's all gone wrong.......as it looks like the route is a good one?
But reading this and other forums......it looks like its not going to happen. Not sure anyone will touch Mr H with a barge pole?
But from my point of view it did give me a good chance to get some nice shots....(well one anyway).
Photos: British Aerospace BAe-3102 Jetstream 31 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled-(Varsity-Express)/British-Aerospace-BAe-3102/1664995/L/)

[horsebox]

Varsity Express: Baby Branson’s bogus business - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/entrepreneur/article7061160.ece)

Sums it all up really....

[virginblue]

That's really the icing on the cake:

Richard Maslen, deputy editor of Airliner World, said: “The aviation industry has long attracted talented young entrepreneurs and Martin Halstead was once hailed as possibly being the next in line.

“But what has now emerged shows he would be unlikely to work in this industry again.”


This gentleman has sung praises about MH in the latest edition of the magazin, devoting a 3 page article on him (not on his airline, but on the guy personally). Isn't this the same magazine that also fell into the trap about this new Jersey based airline set up by a young teenager? Apparently top notch journalism at work...

[Pilot Positive]

Comprehensive article Horsebox re: an interview with MH.

If the investigative element is founded as truthful and he knowingly and pre-meditatedly deceived 5 FOs by over-charging for their training as part of an "operational airline" then the Serious Fraund Office may want to talk with him. Not sure Companies House will let him register any LTD company after this.

Also: If he did fabricate any relationship with RB and self styled himself as an understudy then given the kind of attention he has solicited on more than one occassion then he could well be in a lot of trouble with the bearded one...no-one likes this kind of negative media coverage - its not good for business. :=

I hope any influence with Pprune he may have had has completed just evaporated (where did all those threads go???!)

Please forgive me for being upfront and sounding harsh but personally, given the state of our industry at the moment and the number of young wannabees out there open to exploitation I hope MH gets everything he deserves whether that be industry banishment, legal action or prosecution - hopefully all three. :D

[abzheli]

Is Oxford airport where Eurocopter UK is based and also is this where the £300 million RAF Puma upgrades are going to be carried out. I know Eurocopter UK are prime contractor for these mods but don't know at what facility. If it is here i'm wondering if there is a possibility they will be looking for puma experienced guys for the mods.

[Pilot Positive]

Yes, they are based at EGTK. They have quite a significant base there and it includes police helis as well. See the descriptor on their website Home Eurocopter UK Helicopter Distributor VIP, Police, Air Ambulance Completions in the UK (http://www.eurocopter.co.uk/) below:

Eurocopter UK Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Eurocopter/EADS Group, is located in Oxford, and has over 30 years experience in helicopter sales, bespoke completions, maintenance and spares support.

Not sure about the situation with regards to upgrades or whether they are looking for puma guys. However a contract of that size (assuming that they are upgrading for current military requirements) may be spread across a number of maintenance locations. Probably best bet would be to give them a ring and ask. Good luck. :ok:

[Potential]

London Oxford (Kidlington) Airport EGTK/OXF - New weekly flights from Oxford to Palma, Mallorca (http://www.oxfordairport.co.uk/airport_news/news_2011/palma_flights.htm)
Flights from Oxford to Palma | Oxford Airport Travel (http://www.oxfordairporttravel.co.uk/)

This is not another Halstead special is it?

[Phileas Fogg]

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/237598-eastern-airways-35.html

[dead_pan]

I suspect the economics of this route are marginal given the prices which are being quoted and the fact that the a/c won't be flying at 100% load. Maybe the plan is to prove the route this season then bring in a larger, faster a/c next year, such as an RJ?

[JonEMA]

Sector cost Oxford-Palma is somewhere near the the £6k mark using a Saab2000. What fares are on offer ?

[OAGAG]

www.oxfordairporttravel.co.uk (http://www.oxfordairporttravel.co.uk)

'Flight only prices are from £395 return – include all taxes, baggage allowance of 15kg, in-flight meals, complimentary in-flight bar etc

Self-catering holidays start from £695 pp for 7 nights including flights

Hotel-based holiday prices start from £775 for 7 nights in a family hotel, from £1045 for 7 nights in a rural country escape hotel, or from £1215 for 7 nights in a luxury hotel – including flights

Private villa holidays start from £895 pp for 7 nights, including flights'

[JonEMA]

wow...that much ..?...a real money spinner then......only need to fill half the seats to break even (ish).......

[JonEMA]

Dead pan....sorry....missed your point about not being ably to fly at 100% L/F.....Long Way for a Saab2000 i know......what will be the restriction do you think ?

[dead_pan]

What fares are on offer ?


c.£400-£600 over the season. £6K seems on the low side for a Saab 2k for a sector of this length - a mate of mine was quoted £70K+ for an adhoc charter from EGTK to PMI (i.e. 2 sectors) using an RJ85 last year.

[dead_pan]

JonEMA - check out Phileas' link to the Eastern Airways thread at post # 107 above. There's a discussion around the no. of PAX they plan to carry on the flight.

[JonEMA]

Thanks Dead_Pan.

Looks like their having a real ding dong over in the Eastern forum over the operational aspects of the service. I'm no expert but I think Eastern are a very professional outfit and wouldn't entertain a service like this if they wern't totally confident in maintaining service and quality.

I'm using a commercial route economic system that's available here in the office so i'm pretty confident on £6k sector cost give or take a grand. As i said earlier, 50% load factor to break even is my guess which, interestingly, is close to Eastern's average network load factor.

Smart airline me thinks

[dead_pan]

It will be costing GTE, the organisation which have chartered it, a lot more than the ACMI going rate for this type, which I suspect your software may be using. Also, I think your assumption of break-even at 50% load may be optimistic.

Eastern won't be taking any financial risk on this route as such - GTE will have to pay them regardless of how many seats they sell.

Still, its nice to see someone taking the proverbial plunge in these difficult times.

[Pilot Positive]

its nice to see someone taking the proverbial plunge in these difficult times.

Couldnt agree more...its about time we started to see some re-investment back into the industry. And this route could work. Good luck to them. :ok:


PP

[JonEMA]

Hi Dead_Pan,

Yes, you are right, the software builds the cost from the perspective of Eastern operating the route directly.

I agree, great to see the momentum building at Oxford. I’m not from the area myself but had it on my radar as displaying great potential for a couple of years now. It has an excellent catchment and could easily out compete LHR for UK domestic and near Europe day returns using turbo props.

[Cyrano]

It will be costing GTE, the organisation which have chartered it, a lot more than the ACMI going rate for this type, which I suspect your software may be using. Also, I think your assumption of break-even at 50% load may be optimistic.

Eastern won't be taking any financial risk on this route as such - GTE will have to pay them regardless of how many seats they sell.

Still, its nice to see someone taking the proverbial plunge in these difficult times.

I have to agree with you on this, dead_pan.

JonEMA: I use what is probably the same route economics package as you, developed not a million miles from Loughborough :-) . I'm not sure how you reached your estimate of a 50% breakeven load factor, even if we exclude Eastern's profit margin. I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, but unless Eastern is operating some other charter flight to/from OXF or PMI (which seems unlikely), then the costs of positioning sectors need to be included as well - realistically that's at least £1500-£2000 per sector depending on where the aircraft is coming from/going back to.

So your £12000 round-trip to PMI now becomes maybe £16000, and then there's the profit margin to the carrier. Let's imagine that they settle for as little as £4000 profit (remember, just one tech aircraft in PMI during the season would eat into this cumulative profit pretty quickly!) and you're looking at £20000 per round-trip.

If everyone were paying £395 that'd be a breakeven load factor of - oh, 100% if we count all 50 seats :sad: - so I could imagine that the goal is to increase the average yield (I notice that the operator's website says "from £395").

Looked at another way: if the tour operator are only selling 40 seats per flight, then they need to fill all those 40 seats at an average round-trip yield of £500. Not impossible, but not exactly a dead cert either.

[dead_pan]

The prices on GTE's site do appear to be firm - they range from £395 in June to £500+ in August.

Oxford does appear to have a good catchment - there are lots of wealthy people living in the city, Cotwolds etc who would no doubt appreciate its convenience. That said, its lack of radar will probably prevent it offering a decent winter timetable, also the PAX facilities are apparently limited (according to my aforementioned mate the terminal can only handle a hundred or so people at a time). Oh, and there's no hangarage for anything bigger than a mid-sized corporate jet, so no prospects of any airline basing an a/c there yet.

PS I'm writing this in the vain hope that either the airport's operators or the Reubens brothers are reading this and take note!

[Drakestream]

My understanding was that Oxford now has a hangar capable of taking a BBJ, is this not the case?

[JonEMA]

Hi Cyrano,

Thanks for putting me straight.

At a pure route level the system spits out just above £6k a sector and of course you are right to point out the positioning costs etc. My 50%ish LF to break even (before profit) was therefore simply £12k divided by £500 being the mid point fare taken from one of Dead_Pan's previous post.

Optimistic enthusiasm perhaps, but its interesting that Eastern's load factor across its network is also around this figure and they still make money.

[Phileas Fogg]

Guys,

Eastern's bed & butter work are scheduled services, this PMI is an IT charter, Eastern do not need to sell seats, they do not need to worry regarding enough bums on seats, because they've sold the entire flight(s) to the tour operator and it is the tour operator that needs to get bums on seats to break even, make a profit etc.

Eastern's load factors have nothing to do with it!

[Cyrano]

Optimistic enthusiasm perhaps, but its interesting that Eastern's load factor across its network is also around this figure and they still make money.

Sorry, but that's utterly irrelevant.

First, as Phineas points out, Eastern doesn't have a breakeven for the charter operation - they should be in profit on this by definition.

But even leaving that fundamental point aside (and imagining for a second that the commercial risk on this did lie with the airline), the economics of Eastern's business-oriented high-frequency scheduled network are a completely different kettle of fish to a once-a-week 3-hour-sector-length round-trip (with positioning flights), and the breakeven load factor on the one has really zero relation to the breakeven load factor on the other. Without knowing how the scheduled-network yield compares to the yield on this service, it's just not possible to make any meaningful comparison of breakeven load factors.

[JonEMA]

Hey...don't appologise Cyrano....I accept largely what you are saying.....

Phileas, I was pontificating,were this to be an Easten Airways route instead of a charter, (in very broad terms) the sorts of costs and revenues the airline would face.

The load factor bit ?....well ...To me, Eastern are a niche player...quietly keeping out of the way of the big boys and charging high fares......hence they only have to fill their planes half full.

[compton3bravo]

In a press release issued today the 237 metre extension of London Oxford's runway has been approved by the CAA. According to Business Development Manager James Dillon-Godfrey the airport is looking at Transatlantic charters and I quote ''also looking at the furthest parts of the European airline market''. I kid you not.

[EuroChallenger]

Three things spring to mind re Oxford...

1) The are a lot of well healed folk in the area
2) Quite a lot of foreign students who presumably travel to and from home now and again.
3) A high frequency - and I mean high frequency - express coach service from Oxford to Heathrow and Gatwick. There are two firms operating services.

There must be a good market for air travel in the area.

[richardhall99]

ah yeh the m40 has always got a wide selection of buses from heathrow and gatwick plying the route day and night - very very popular.

I think the only thing holding oxford is the fact that the terminal can only 100 pax tops at any one time according to something i read - so not sure how they can attract anything more than an eastern or flybe type operation

Wonder why no-one has ever operated plymouth-oxford-edinburgh for eg or another route dropping in there?

[LGS6753]

Whilst I am skeptical about the prospects for many of the UK's marginal airports, I believe Oxford could carve out a niche for itself due to its location. Although Heathrow is only 40 miles away, it is a congested 40 miles by road and there are no direct trains. Luton is about the same distance, but the roads are very poor. Birmingham is accessible via the M40 but is 66 miles away and has expensive parking. Southampton is no closer, nor is Bristol.

Oxford would be the closest airport for quite a large population, and in a very affluent part of the country. There are lots of high-tech companies in the local area, especially in the medical and pharmaceutical sectors.

If parking remained reasonably priced, and the airport stayed uncongested, I could see connecting flights to a European hub working, as well as perhaps Edinburgh.

[TSR2]

In a press release issued today the 237 metre extension of London Oxford's runway has been approved by the CAA

LONDON OXFORD ....... Maybe Ryanair's next base.

[dead_pan]

Although Heathrow is only 40 miles away, it is a congested 40 miles by road and there are no direct trains.


Actually the run to Oxford from west London on the M40 is pretty good. The only real bottleneck is the High Wycombe 'pinch'. As for rail services, Chiltern Railways are planning to put a new link into Oxford from Bicester. There are also plans to upgrade the Great Western line from Paddington to Didcot and Oxford.

I would have thought radar would have taken priority over a runway extension. Still good news though.

Editted to add: They've got to sort out access to the terminal as well - its like driving on to an industrial estate.

[Sand Devil]

The runway has been there for a while. They've just lopped a few trees and moved the holding points back a little. :E

[Fosters]

Oxford to install new Radar System ready for the Olympics : UK Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/oxford-airport-news-230511.html)

Oxford to get radar !!

[Phileas Fogg]

Quote:

The primary and secondary (Mode-S, MSSR) surveillance radar system will enable more efficient transits through local airspace as well as increase the throughput of IFR flight activity.

[Wycombe]

Summer OXF-PMI with Eastern Saab still operating? - link to the info from airport website no longer working?

[Phileas Fogg]

Wasn't PMI initially supposed to operate all summer long?

Flights from Oxford to Palma | Oxford Airport Travel (http://www.oxfordairporttravel.co.uk/)

To complement the Jersey service, it was decided to introduce a new short series flight to Mallorca running on 4 Saturdays in September - 3rd, 10th, 17th and 24th

But one can't book nor even get a price so they clearly haven't confirmed these September aircraft yet:

If you would like to receive some more information about our Mallorca programme for September flying from Oxford, then please complete the REGISTER YOUR INTEREST form and we will let you have confirmed prices as soon as these are available

Now it gets really funny ..... flights from Oxford to New York!

In the coming months, it is planned that more and more flights will start operating. These will include a range of scheduled services to a range of UK and European cities, along with some one-off charters, for example, Christmas Shopping in New York

[VIKING9]

OXF-NYC via SNN (no problem) :sad:

[rareair]

OXF - LBA/NCL on a J41 through ticketed onto a codeshare on the LS xmas shopping special I would have thought is most likely!

[Aero Mad]

Some news on Oxford

Flights to New York now up. They involve Cityjet from Oxford - Dublin using

their super-efficient Avro RJ-85 jet (I don't think that even BAe had the audacity to market them as 'super-efficient' - four thirsty jets which are quite far from being even 'efficient'.)

Then onwards to New York with Aer Lingus on their 'award-winning service'. And for all the tightly packed text, the price isn't even on there. Turns out that it is £795 for flights only or £999 including 4 nights hotel stay. The latter doesn't seem quite such a bad deal.

Don't get me wrong - I'm very pro-Oxford in terms of expansion. But setting their sights on New York at the prices which they are charging are perhaps setting them a bit high. What about regional services? There has to be potential for scheduled services to some European and domestic destinations on a more regular basis; my best guesses are Jersey (more regular services needed, nothing from LHR), Guernsey (again nothing from Heathrow), a Scottish city (perhaps) and then some European destinations. It would require a decent survey to see where people in Oxford want to fly.

[OXF ATC]

Economic environment hasn't been too conducive towards regionals diving into new territories and airports recently. However tide ought to change soon as OXF has just installed a £4m primary and secondary radar which was one key barrier to the airlines taking the airport seriously to date. Something like £25 has been spent in the last few years modernising everything from the runway, AGL, runway, fire tenders, ILS, new terminal and now the radar - all focused on the business aviation sector to date, but now ready for the commercial side and of course the Olympics opportunities next year.

Richest part of the country, highest economic growth, no competition for an hour's drive in any direction, 5m people in that catchment, an hour down the M40 to west London and the 3rd most visited city in England outside of London - over 10 million international visitors a year. Ticks quite a few boxes - then next year there's a new rail station opening in south Kidlington - under an hour to Marylebone.

Just takes some time and quite a lot of cash!

There's EMB-190s (private jet version) coming in from time to time and with 1592m, pretty much anything that uses LCY can get in and out of OXF

Usual business-oriented near-Europe destinations obvious including Edinburgh, but also islands, niche leisure destinations where the second-home set go and hang out and the occassional one off charters like the Dublin-New York one launched today, ski flights to shorter runways etc.

Lets watch what happens!

[AircraftOperations]

"Something like £25 has been spent in the last few years modernising everything"

Not something I'd be boasting about. :}

[TSR2]

Something like £25 has been spent in the last few years modernising everything from the runway, AGL, runway, fire tenders, ILS, new terminal and now the radar

Wow .... as much as that ;)

[BHD2BFS]

the dublin flight could be successful if the price is right, but i cant see new york ever happen, the same thing happened with the palma flights, they never took of either, if the want to start commercial flights they need to get a proper passenger terminal built

[ATCO Fred]

the dublin flight could be successful if the price is right, but i cant see new york ever happen, the same thing happened with the palma flights, they never took of either, if the want to start commercial flights they need to get a proper passenger terminal built

Read the text of the press release carefully. It's a one off charter to cater for the specific Christmas trade - not a regular route. You are right - the Palmer flights NEVER did take off - the flights were withdrawn before the scheduled start date due to reasons other than loadings.

There is a proper terminal - a very nice and new FBO VIP facility. I'm sure it would be expanded if scheduled flights happen and loadings dictate a bigger facility but at the moment there are better/other things to spend money on!

[Potential]

It would require a decent survey to see where people in Oxford want to fly.

This has already been done but is kept as an internal document that was not published to my knowledge. From memory, Schipol came out as the number one international destinaton, followed by Dublin I think. Edinburgh was by far the most in demand domestic route, which is why the airport persuaded Varsity Express to consider Edinburgh instead of Cambridge (though that was before they realised they were dealing with Martin Halstead again).

[dead_pan]

It seems to me that the airport's operators and GTE are rooting around to try to find a route which sticks - over the past couple of years they've tried Geneva, Guernsey (or was is Jersey?), Palma, and now NYC via Dublin. Part of the problem I see is that they don't appear to advertise the flights very widely - if Ryanair were their they'd have billboard adverts in and around the city etc etc. Also, some clarity over flight-only prices would be helpful, instead of these confusing flight & accommodation offers.

Seeing as the operators obviously read and take on the advice proferred within this thread, I look forward to the announcement regarding the new passenger terminal...

[J-Guy]

Just a quick note for those of you in Oxford...the Jersey flight next summer will be operated by Blue Islands. Flights as followed:

SI2151 Jersey 14:30 - Oxford 15:25
SI2152 Oxford 15:55 - Jersey 16:50

Most likely will be operated by an ATR42.

[Aero Mad]

Two new routes with Manx2 just announced from May 8th: Jersey and the Isle of Man. Jersey gets new air route to Oxford - Business News | businesslife.co (http://www.businesslife.co/BusinessNews.aspx?id=jersey-gets-new-air-route-to-oxford)

[Drakestream]

It was only a matter of time. Good news for the airport. Well done Manx2. Will be interesting to see how it effects the weekly summer Jersey charters.

Ironic to see Linksair back in Oxford. The route is showing both J31s and FLM D228s. MH

[Aero Mad]

I'm not sure it will affect Blue Islands too much because the Channel Islands Travel Service mainly takes bookings for all-inclusive holidays - so most people who want that will go through there. Obviously there'll be a bit of conflict but nothing too major.

[The SSK]

Bit of publicity for OXF - welcome I'm sure.

London Oxford Airport takes off / Industry News / Eva International (http://evaint.com/industry-news/london-oxford-airport-takes-off)

[compton3bravo]

I would think that they need all the publicity they can manage at the moment with just 27 passengers transiting in March!

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "if Ryanair were their they'd have billboard adverts in and around the city etc etc. Also, some clarity over flight-only prices would be helpful, instead of these confusing flight & accommodation offers."


If Ryanair were there they'd be vigourously marketing OXF as "London North West".

[Dough Fan]

I would think that they need all the publicity they can manage at the moment with just 27 passengers transiting in March!

Where did you get that figure from please?

[compton3bravo]

Provisional airport statistics for March 2012. Look on the CAA website.

[The Last Black Shed]

So what's occurring at Oxford Airport? Two members of senior management dismissed in a month? Any more to follow I wonder?

[Beamish Boy]

Perhaps the owners/directors don't require people who want to run an airport!

[matspart3]

Who's gone then?

[Alex757]

Anybody know what the Starflight Express 737-700 (BBJ) N92SR was doing at Oxford recently? It came in from Stansted, and was parked up on the apron for quite a wwhile...

[west lakes]

Who's gone then?


By all accounts, folk that were set up by more senior management to take the fall for their failings

[Whirlygig]

EGHQ, Oxford Airport now has a fully operating radar.

Alex7557, the BBJ was, just that, parked at Oxford. ;) Parking probably cheaper at Oxford than Stansted, plus Oxford is outside the Olympics zone.

Cheers

Whirls

[LGS6753]

Manx2 are now advertising OXF-Belfast, but its just a 4x per week extension of OXF-IOM

[Alex757]

Anyone know anything about the emergency landing this afternoon? I heard it on the radio, and as usual, the rubbish reports say nothing....

[Clink Boy]

I have heard that the MD at Oxford has gone, does anyoneknow anything?

[Romaro]

See the MD's gone, who's replacing him?

[The Last Black Shed]

Yes, the MD has gone and I believe to be replaced by the last Head of Finance's predecessor.

[matspart3]

Andi Pargeter appointed managing director at London Oxford - Corporate Jet Investor (http://corpjetfin.live.subhub.com/articles/Andi_Pargeter_appointed_MD_Oxford_221)

[Romaro]

So where did Chris Orphanou go then?

[BAladdy]

Hi

Does anyone know how the Manx2 route to JER and IOM is doing?

[Falcon666]

BALaddy
Not sure if this helps but latest caa stats state
I.O.M to Oxford 110 for month of July and I.O.M to Jersey 239.
Assuming Dornier 19 seat then 133 seats per week available-530ish a month?
Can't find a figure for Oxford to Jersey.Maybe somebody in the know might like to comment.!!

[Spitfire boy]

How many Olympic business jet movements did Oxford attract? Curious to see if the expcted demand at all SE airports actually happened or not away from Luton, Stansted and Biggin Hill.

[Alex757]

I was talking to a PFT instructor who seemed to reckon OXF hadn't attracted as many as it was planning to. I brought up something about "I bet it must of been pretty busy" and he was saying he thought that they were expecting it, but it never happened.

[pabely]

Cranfield did Ok on positioning/overnighting, but it has natural links from LTN & STN, OXF is a bit out on it's own so would not get overspill from the established FBOs.

[Clink Boy]

The PFT instructor does not work in Oxfords Operations department. I have a friend who works there and he said they were very busy booking slots in the three to four weeks leading up to the Olympics and busy throughout the games too.

[LTNman]

Does anyone know how the Manx2 route to JER and IOM is doing?

Kidlington might call themselves London Oxford but I bet not a single passenger came from London or went there.

[OXF ATC]

Ref. Olympics period traffic, we saw over 600 slots for IFR/Business Aviation traffic over the slot coordinated period from the 21st July to the 15th August. That's putting us at No.5 behind (1) Luton, (2) Farnborough, (3)Biggin Hill and (4) Stansted who saw over 700 slots for this traffic.

Busiest day before the opening ceremony on the Wednesday with 45 business aviation movements. Main increase over normal summer activity levels was the period before the games in July when we had a lot more of the larger business jets than normal including the Boeing Business Jet (BBJ - 737-700) - 50+ slots for GV/Global/F7X types a 180% increase over same period last year. During the games, there was little Olympics-related traffic, just normal business aviation and charter traffic.

[ATCO Fred]

Cut and paste from the Oxford Mail

OXFORD Airport’s new managing director is targetting european routes as early as next year.

Andi Pargeter says destinations including Edinburgh, Glasgow, Belfast, Dublin, Amsterdam, Paris, Munich, Frankfurt, Geneva and Zurich have been identified as places where there is sufficient demand, particularly from local business travellers.

But the 31-year-old said turning the Kidlington airport into a large airport on the scale of Birmingham was not on the cards.

Ms Pargeter said services to some destinations were “targeted to see operations commence in 2013” although it was too early identify which ones.

full story here http://http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/9888196.Airport_boss_has_sights_on_Europe/

Let the pessimists run amok!

[ATCO Fred]

Quote:



Does anyone know how the Manx2 route to JER and IOM is doing?

Kidlington might call themselves London Oxford but I bet not a single passenger came from London or went there.

People must get over this geographical proprietorial nous. It was a marketing ploy; to pinprick the conscious of European business jet users that there was an alternative if wishing to fly to N/W London! And as much as it pains me - it worked. The number of European Business jet movements ( non Oxf based and starting from Europe) rose dramatically overnight! As for commercial flights, if I could interlink into a Euro hub in the future with a 20 min check-in at Oxford and avoid going to Heathrow or Gatwick and the inevitable 3-4 hours wasted there I would do it.

As for the Manx route - supply and demand! Todays outbound to Jer was full!

[Betablockeruk]

Andi Pargeter says destinations including Edinburgh, Glasgow, Belfast, Dublin, Amsterdam, Paris, Munich, Frankfurt, Geneva and Zurich have been identified as places where there is sufficient demand, particularly from local business travellers.

Minoan Air just announced Oxford - Dublin; Edinburgh; Amsterdam; Munich and Copenhagen from 2013 using 2 Fk50s.

[davidjohnson6]

I realise that the economy in Greece is not making things easy for an airline that flies domestic Greek routes to/from Crete, but to open up a base at Oxford seems quite a significant change in operations. Their website indicates they began scheduled flying in summer 2012

Any particular reason for Minoan thinking they can make this work ?

[BHD2BFS]

Does Oxford even have a proper passenger terminal? I know it has a small business one, but will it be able to cope?

[Betablockeruk]

Does Oxford even have a proper passenger terminal? I know it has a small business one, but will it be able to cope?

He didn't say that bit:

Routes TV :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/routes-tv/1127233148001/airline-videoaudio/1869749724001/)

[The SSK]

A series of meetings with European airports resulted in achieving favourable incentives that will enhance the cost effectiveness of the operation.

Let's hope they aren't in breach of EU State Aid guidelines.

[EMB-145LR]

A very interesting development for Oxford. A couple of thoughts spring to mind though. Firstly, Munich and Copenhagen are going to be extremely long slogs in a Fokker 50. I think the thing cruises at around 300kts, fine for shorter flights, but anything over 500 miles is really going to be pushing it.

Secondly, are they going to come up with some different branding for the UK operation? Minoan Air doesn't immediately make me think of an airline operating from Oxford to Edinburgh or Oxford to Dublin! They're going to need quite a bit of marketing to succeed, and without any interlining agreements in Europe, I think they may struggle on the Munich, Amsterdam and Copenhagen routes.

[tarnehat]

I haven't read it, but it's not manx2 getting someone with bigger aircraft in is it?

[Cyrano]

Quote:
A series of meetings with European airports resulted in achieving favourable incentives that will enhance the cost effectiveness of the operation.

Let's hope they aren't in breach of EU State Aid guidelines.

At least two of the airports on the destination list were unaware that they were in the network (indeed, had apparently never even been approached by the airline) until the press release this morning. (I know because I spoke to them today at the Routes conference.) You can imagine that when the first contact from the airline is an announcement that they are going to fly to your airport, you are not particularly motivated (or compelled) to consider offering incentives.

I would imagine that their main base is a different story (indeed the quote you cite does not explicitly say that more than one airport offered incentives), but as a privately owned airport it is not subject to EC State Aid guidelines.

C.

PS I would guesstimate the block time for OXF-MUC or OXF-CPH to be about 2 hours 40 min. That length of time in an F50 is just not a happy-passenger prescription.

[EMB-145LR]

Nothing announced on the Oxford Airport web site so far. Oxford were apparently in talks with much more established airlines to cover a few of these routes (Aer Arann for DUB and Loganair for EDI apparently). Are the airport behind this move?

[Buster the Bear]

The mini Tinminal is so small, never cope with multiple FK50 arrivals and departures.

[davidjohnson6]

How did Oxford cope with Baboo flying to Geneva ?

[harriewillem]

All the best to them...

All flights even to AMS outbound OXF you can't take 50Y due to performance restrictions.

On top of that CPH / MUC is +/- 2H45 what means pax restriction around 30Y / 35Y pending luggage on the outbound flight.

Take a hot day in summer and it will be even worse...

[Phileas Fogg]

Take a contaminated (wet) runway and/or a 'still air' day and it gets even worse :)

[EMB-145LR]

I thought that Oxford now had an official runway length of 1,552m? Compare that London City which on has 1,508m and I fail to see why Oxford can't take a full Fokker 50 on it's shorter routes? VLM never seem to have had any problems out of City.

[nivsy]

I cannot recall the flight duration but I did LCY-MUC on a Dash 8 a couple of years ago.

It was a delight....great leg room and proper breakfast in china plates with proper coffee and even wine in proper wine glasses - all in economy.

What ever happened to that service - to good to be true - probably was and was pulled.

I would be happy to fly Dash 8 to MUC

[Phileas Fogg]

A Dash 8, indeed a Bombardier Q300/Q400, ain't a revamped F27 of 1950's design!

[tczulu]

Well,me and Mrs TCZ flew on the Denim Air Fk50,subbing for Flybes Dash from IOM to BHX back in July,and actually found it just as good. Seemed quieter but that might have just been seat position.I'm in ATC,so do appreciate the performance difference.;)

[Expressflight]

Looking at the Type A chart I can't see any problem with operating the F50 on the routes in question, let alone to AMS as has been suggested. The runway is also grooved so is unlikely to be declared 'contaminated' except in extreme rainfall conditions.

[Phileas Fogg]

Of course there won't be any performance problems operating these F50's in/out of Oxford/Kidlington (forget the London/Oxford nonsense) because they'll be operating with passenger loads of single figures and will probably only last a season if that.

[Alex757]

Wow ... that's bizarre ... a Greek carrier operating from Oxford, to other EU destinations (not Greece)

I agree with some of the points made, about how a long flight in a f50 would be unpleasant.

Minoan only have 4 aircraft, and had I not read about them in Airliner World, I doubt I would of known of their existence. So you are right about marketing, they really will have to pull out all the stops.

[Whirlygig]

that's bizarre ... a Greek carrier operating from Oxford,The irony's not lost on me, either :}

Cheers

Whirls

[learjet50]

It will never happen in a Million years all pie in the sky again

I think we have been here before re Oxford

Lovely little Airport but its a G A Airport Its not London Oxford .


Greek Airline operating from UK with Fokker 50s NO


Sked flights to EU in a Turbo Prop NO



Sorry Oxford its not worked before and it wont again with the exception of Manx 2 ????


:ugh::ugh:

[davidjohnson6]

Partly out of curiosity, yesterday (12 Oct) afternoon I thought that it might be interesting to ask Oxford airport what their view was on commercial flights starting to Dublin, Amsterdam and Edinburgh - I didn't bother mentioning Copenhagen or Munich so as to keep it relatively modest. The answer I received was:

Thank you for your enquiry, but at the moment nothing has been decided but if you look on our website any future plans will be on there.

Hope Minoan and Oxford are getting on well...

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Secondly, are they going to come up with some different branding for the UK operation? Minoan Air doesn't immediately make me think of an airline operating from Oxford to Edinburgh or Oxford to Dublin! They're going to need quite a bit of marketing to succeed, and without any interlining agreements in Europe, I think they may struggle on the Munich, Amsterdam and Copenhagen routes."

How does "British Minoan" sound?

Quote: "Of course there won't be any performance problems operating these F50's in/out of Oxford/Kidlington (forget the London/Oxford nonsense) because they'll be operating with passenger loads of single figures and will probably only last a season if that."

Quite right: Oxford-Kidlington. "London-Oxford" is a lot of nonsense. FR have a lot to answer for!

[dead_pan]

I hope this new MD hasn't gone too early with his announcement. Echoes of Farcity and all that.

Always thought it would be a good plan to feed in to other European hubs on the near continent like Schipol or possibly CDG, but Munich and Copnhagen is pushing it a bit especially on something like a F50.

[Whirlygig]

I hope this new MD hasn't gone too early with his announcement.Er .... Her announcement????

Cheers

Whirls

[dead_pan]

I'm sorry I have a cold.

[ATCO Fred]

learjet50


Oxford

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lovely little Airport but its a G A Airport Its not London Oxford .




No strictly true anymore . . . . . . .

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx261/ATC_EGTK/EGTKApron.jpg[/IMG]

[Romaro]

Indeed ATCO-Fred - there's more business aviation today at Oxford/Kidlington than Biggin Hill is seeing. Check CFMU.

Point of note, the airport would appear to have made no mention or announcement or otherwise of these new airline flights whatsoever..........

[davidjohnson6]

It's been 6 weeks since Minoan made an announcement about setting up at Oxford airport. Like many, I'm not convinced that this be profitable.

Has there however been any noise outside PPRuNE indicating something serious and credible is actually happening on this, rather than just someone doing a press release. ? The absence of anything about this on Oxford airport's website does not inspire confidence.

[Aero Mad]

This interview would indicate more than just hype, unless they really have a change of mind.

Routes TV :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/routes-tv/1127233148001/airline-videoaudio/)

[putneyuk]

Manx2 have announced they are to stop IOM - Oxford from 7th January due to declining loads, but will look at a restart later in 2013.

[pabely]

Manx2.....Only for IOM TT, it has to be said it was not a great success, and they spent a small fortune on advertising in IOM.

[EMB-145LR]

Article in the local paper today about Minoan Air's plans at OXF. Interestingly the airport declined to comment.

New service from Oxford Airport as flights to islands stop (From Oxford Mail) (http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10062647.New_service_from_Oxford_Airport_as_flights_to_islan ds_stop/)

[davidjohnson6]

fjencl - if the website goes live on 8th December, is the plan still to start flight operations in January, taking into consideration that many offices in the UK have a near shut down for about 11 days in the middle of that period ?
Alternatively will flights start a little later instead - e.g. March ?

[Aero Mad]

e.g. March

...when demand is increasing and the summer season isn't a million miles away. Sounds rather more sensible for such marginal routes as these.

[fjencl]

I have no more info ..sorry

I sent them an email asking when i can book a flight from Oxford - Edinburgh.

They replied to me that the web site goes live on 8th December 2012.

So i have no further info.

[pabely]

Reading the link in #211, it says Manx2 have been hit by fierce competition from budget flight provider EasyJet.
On what route IOM Blackpool vs IOM Liverpool?
The JER section is via Flybe @ LTN.
If so what chance have Minoan Air got competing on EZY; LTN EDI, LTN AMS - RYR; LTN - DUB?

[tarnehat]

I think it refers to IOM-LGW which was started by EZY and it's flooding the IOM south bound market with low cost seats.

Judging by the CAA figures, I can see why they're dropping it though, there's a massive drop off since EasyJet started.

Re: Minoan - I don't think they stand a chance

[Agusta]

"Lovely little Airport but its a G A Airport Its not London Oxford":ugh:

learjet50, I think you are putting Oxford down without knowing the facts, the airport is not just a GA airport (see links from Flickr):-

VPBLW EGTK 22-10-20121a | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/61922019@N08/8112515407/in/pool-1921185@N20)

BBJ & HS125 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/16696189@N07/7639488494/in/pool-1921185@N20)

F900s | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/16696189@N07/4158588138/in/pool-1921185@N20/)


http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifOE-III-2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wickenden1967/8048108741/in/pool-1921185@N20)

EC-KQO | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wickenden1967/7545057638/in/pool-1921185@N20)

I hope you noted a BBJ in one of the pictures.:ok:

[compton3bravo]

I think what Learjet50 means Augusta is that Oxford does not have many fare-paying passengers on regular scheduled services. General Aviation (GA) means business jets etc as well as puddle jumpers, training flights etc.

[Agusta]

Now, compton3bravo, Oxford has radar I'm sure that will change.

[LTNman]

Oxford is a great GA airfield. It looks like a GA airfield and has the feel of a GA airfield. It has the opening hours of a GA airfield, has a runway width of a GA airfield 98.4ft (30m) and a runway length of a GA airfield 4329ft (1319m) – TORA/ASDA/TODA/LDA. It serves Oxford and the surrounding area but I would say that is it.

Nothing wrong with any of that and nothing wrong in them pretending to serve London if they can get away with it.

[NorthSouth]

Ooooh, careful, straying dangerously close to "meaningless drivel" ;)
NS

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Radar does not a schedule make.

anon

glf

[OXF ATC]

All due respect LTNman, you need to update your facts a bit. Oxford is arguably the best of all worlds these days:

It's still just a tenner to land a light GA aircraft under 2.73 tonnes (6,000 lbs) at the weekends or free if you pick up 45 litres of fuel (£16 during the week, whats it cost for Luton or Farnborough may we ask?) - it still has Europe's largest professional pilot training college, CAE Oxford Aviation Academy, however;

As for opening hours, its notably better that the likes of Biggin or Farnborough, in fact any other 'GA' airport in the SE UK with 06:30 to 22:30 seven days a week, but capable of opening from 06:00 to midnight - try getting into Farnborough after a football match on a Saturday evening - impossible! There are no slot constraints/requirements or weekend limits - currrently running at just 40,000 movements a year with a 160,000/annum capacity limit. There are no noise of weight limits.

The runway has PCN of 38 - stronger than London City and perfectly adequate for Boeing Business Jets at 77 tonnes whilst the licenced lengths are now longer at 1592m on RWY 01 and 1558 on RWY 19. A fully laden EMB-190 can do pretty much all of Europe out of there. The next generation of airliners like the Bombardier C-series will do 2000+ miles out of Oxford. It has a higher standard fire and rescue cover than any other 'GA' airfields at Cat 4 RFF with Cat 6 (for 100+ seat airliners, 737, A319, G550, Globals etc.) available at short notice.

Globals and G550s, 7Xs etc. all fly deep into the USA out of Oxford and can do New York on a charter - i.e. public transport.

The new £4m primary and secondary Thales radar is amongst the most advanced in the country today as are the ATC coms systems - completely refitted. There are hangars for large regional airliners including A319/320/737 etc., seven charter companies, five maintenance companies and over 6,000 business aviation movements a year. Of all the business aviation options around London, it's generally recognised as the best value, a fraction of the cost of certain others, either as a visitor or resident. It has an 8,000+ sq.ft. Executive FBO/terminal which has comfortably handled schedules and charters with 80-100 passengers.

On the airline/routes potential, Oxford is the 3rd most visited city in England outside of London, 11+ million visitors, 6 million through the train station alone, there's no competing commercial airport within less than an hour's drive or train ride, its in the middle of the wealthiest part of the UK outside of London and has a catchment of over 5 million in under an hour's drive. Economically, it's seen massive growth in the science, research and technology sector. Its the next IFR airport up the road from Heathrow and almost exactly half way between Heathrow (LHR) and Birmingham (BHX).

Yes, it's still GA-friendly - you can live there with your light single for a little over £100/month inclusive of your landings, but it sure has grown up in the last decade. It has full-blown commercial capabilities today but with the inherent advantages of a 'GA' airport - the best of all worlds.

And before we all mock the daft name, it may be 55+ miles from the west end of London, but you can comfotably get from touchdown at 'Oxford Airport' to 'Oxford Street' quicker than you'll do it from Biggin Hill, just 16 or so miles south of Canary Warf.

It's nothing like the airport it was several years ago.

[LTNman]

whilst the licenced lengths are now longer at 1592m on RWY 01 and 1558 on RWY 19

A very well written piece but just to add a bit of meat to the bones while the runway is indeed 1592m the TORA is 1442m and 1383m while the is LDA 1319m at both ends.

An apron with Business jets still makes it a GA airfield but that is just fine as the airfield has a touch or quality about it. I can't really see it becoming anything else in the short to midterm but why would it want to be?

[davidjohnson6]

Are Minoan still due to put their Oxford routes on sale tomorrow ?

[av354]

Give it till Monday!! ;)

[Phileas Fogg]

With all due respect OXF ATC ...

Why choose to make comparisons between Kidlington vs Biggin and/or Farnborough ... Because it suits you to do so per chance?

Biggin Hill has a court injunction in place preventing it from accepting commercial airline (fare paying passenger) movements, were such a court injunction not in place then, without a shadow of a doubt, Biggin would have improved upon it's opening hours, it's RFF category, it's public transport links, indeed just about everything, long before now.

Likewise Farnborough has similar restrictions on the type of movements it can accept!

Northolt also has restrictions but you opted not to compare that to Kidlington ... I wonder why ... One is ideally placed on the A40 and on the fringes of London whilst the other is placed way off the M40 and out the back of beyond someplace!

And why state that Kidlington's runway is strong enough to accept BBJ's & A319's ... Remind us again of the length of Kidlington's runway if you so please?

[av354]

01/19 is clearly capable, there's pics on the web proving it's capable! ;)

[av354]

Phileas Fogg - runway's all grooved now, so significant contamination is a lot less likely :)

[EMB-145LR]

Weren't Minoan Air supposed to put these new Oxford routes on sale from the 8th? Still nothing from the airport either. I'm putting my money on this never happening...

[Phileas Fogg]

Stop being so negative ... The runway(s) have been grooved :)

[EMB-145LR]

I certainly think Oxford has the ability to support a limited range of destinations, I just don't think Minoan is the company to do it. I would have thought EDI with Loganair/Flybe would be a much better option. Maybe DUB with Aer Arann/Aer Lingus Regional. But AMS, CPH, and MUC all seem far too adventurous for OXF.

[fjencl]

Great Experience Travel - Holidays, Flights and Special Interest Tours (http://www.greatexperiencetravel.co.uk)


Below is info from the above web site for info........

WE ARE REALLY EXCITED BY THE RECENT NEWS THAT MINOAN AIR WILL BE STARTING SERVICES TO A RANGE OF EXCITING NEW DESTINATIONS, INCLUDING DUBLIN, EDINBURGH, AMSTERDAM, PARIS AND COPENHAGEN FROM EARLY IN FEBRUARY 2013 USING THEIR NEW FLEET OF FOKKER 50-SEATER TURBOPROP AIRCRAFT. WE WILL BE STARTING ONLINE BOOKING OF THESE FLIGHTS & CITYBREAK PACKAGES SHORTLY, BUT IN THE INTERIM, YOU CAN REGISTER YOUR INTEREST FOR THESE NEW FLIGHT ROUTES BY CALLING US ON THE OFFICE NUMBER BELOW, OR USING THE CONTACT US FACILITY ON THIS SITE.[endbold]

[Phileas Fogg]

Thanks all the same but I think I'll stick with Cathay Pacific in/out of LHR :)

[ajfreeman]

What CAT is the ILS at Oxford? Surely some fog or ice and they will be diverting as Oxford will be out of limits. I give them till June and then bye bye Minoan.

Andrew

[davidjohnson6]

It's now the 19th of December. Either Minoan put Oxford flights on sale today (Wednesday), or they temporarily lose the chance for publicity in the press having any useful effect as the party season moves into top gear, the great Xmas exodus starts in earnest and Minoan have to delay their launch to January 2013 or later

[dead_pan]

Now the 22nd and still niente - what's going on I wonder?

OXF ATC - Do you still have to pass that security gate to get to the passenger terminal? It doesn't really feel like a proper airport yet.

[pabely]

Good Luck! You will need it!:}

[davidjohnson6]

At least they've been sensible enough to wait a while before having adventures in Copenhagen and Munich as well. With such a long down-time in the middle of the day as well as all day Saturday and most of Sunday, I guess that their 22+ years old airframes with very low leasing costs are being used - an average of 4h42 for daily block time doesn't indicate a particularly heavy usage. I wonder if seats going on sale on 23 January for a first flight on 06 March is giving them enough time...

Had hoped to be able to use one of these flights out of Oxford for leisure as well, but given the timings, it seems that's not gonna happen.... :{

[Cyrano]

It appears from the schedule that they will have a single aircraft until May and a second one thereafter.

It would seem logical to me in the circumstances to launch one destination with a reasonable schedule, and then the second destination when the second aircraft arrives, but they have chosen to launch both from the start with a very attenuated schedule. Thus for example if I want to make a day trip from Dublin to Oxford for a meeting, I have to ensure my meeting is on a Wednesday or a Friday. If I want to go from Oxford to Edinburgh for a weekend, ... well, I can't really.

I know this will all be resolved from May onwards, but I am a little puzzled at the thought process which concluded that a launch schedule which serves two routes badly is better than one which serves one route well. I wonder whether perhaps a condition of the airport's financial support was the launch of at least two destinations from the start, and I hope this will not come back to bite them.

C.

[dc9-32]

begs the question as to why a UK or Irish registered airline is not doing these routes but a Greek (unknown) airline is :ugh:

[LTNman]

Good advice would be to make sure you pay over £100 and pay on a credit card.

[Expressflight]

Cyrano

Your thoughts on the initial scheduling match mine exactly.

[harriewillem]

Claims need to go via Greece if they would delay or cancel. :E They are also stating on their website that they are going to fly to Lugano :ok: ... only problem... Fokker 50 is yet not certified into Lugano :} due to the steeper decent as for example LCY. :E:

[Phileas Fogg]

"London Oxford Airport boasts first-class facilities and our strategic location with no other commercial airports within an hour in all direction"

So if London Oxford Airport is at least one hour from any other commercial airport then how the bl00dy hell can it claim to be anywhere near to London?

P.S. AA Routeplanner, which tends to exaggerate traveling times, suggests that T5 of the world's busiest airport is precisely one hour from Kidlington Aerodrome ... Suggestive marketing perhaps! :=

P.P.S. "Strategic" ... What the bl00dy hell does that mean? ... "That nobody will ever find us?" :)

[Phileas Fogg]

Be careful "fjencl" ... You're bordering upon the (banned) grounds of commercial advertising with this fixation of Kidlington's geriatric turbo-prop services that it seems you have!

[PPRuNe Pop]

Deliberate cases of advertising services showing a website are against PPRuNe's rules. Please refrain or you will lose what rights you have to using PPRuNe.

PPP

[OXF ATC]

Phileas - Yes we all know the 'London' bit in the name is a bit of a joke - we're not even in Oxford either (7 miles away). However, as a point of note, according to Microsofft AutoRoute its 68.6 miles (1 hr 4 mins) to central Birmingham or 62.4 miles (1 hr 3 mins) to central London, so naturally, you're going to call yourself 'London Oxford Airport', not Birmingham Oxford Airport!

Noting however that 'Greater London' expands some 30 miles in width, it is easy to drive down the M40 - the fastest motorway in the UK with less congestion than most others into the capital, and get to north west bit of Greater London easily within the hour.

Kidlington is getting a new rail station soon which will bring Marylebone trains to here in 55 mins.

[pottwiddler]

Why didn't they call it Swindon International? Now that would give kudos to M4 Corridor!

Yes I have been drinking but hey, i drive better!

[dead_pan]

begs the question as to why a UK or Irish registered airline is not doing these routes but a Greek (unknown) airline is

Maybe the Greek domestic/regional market is a little quiet at the moment, given the financial strictures the country is encountering?

Kidlington is getting a new rail station soon which will bring Marylebone trains to here in 55 mins.

Do you mean the proposed Water Eaton parkway station? Its not exactly in Kidlington, more north Oxford...;)

[Phileas Fogg]

And if London and Brum city centres are within an hour and 3 or 4 minutes then how come LHR, CVT and/or BHX airports are not within an hour?

[Heathrow Harry]

tried driving to LHR from the city centre during the week?

An hour MINIMUM

And LGW is even worse

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Phileas - Yes we all know the 'London' bit in the name is a bit of a joke - we're not even in Oxford either (7 miles away). However, as a point of note, according to Microsofft AutoRoute its 68.6 miles (1 hr 4 mins) to central Birmingham or 62.4 miles (1 hr 3 mins) to central London, so naturally, you're going to call yourself 'London Oxford Airport', not Birmingham Oxford Airport!"

Interesting, would have expected it to be nearer London, although obviously not close.

And from BRS? London-Birmingham-Bristol Oxford airport?

Hmm, perhaps another "Thames"-ish hub airport location, although as it's not actually in the river, it may not qualify.