Suggestions for a PPL starter kit

[AlexXeno]

Hi all, lurked here for a long while now and after taking lesson number 1 I'm about to take the plunge and commit, so I thought it would be a good idea to register :) Hopefully going to use Ravenair at LPL, if I can convince them to be more 'flexible' with their payment terms!

At this stage, is there much difference between the available ground study books, or are they all much of a muchness?

I'm leaning towards a starter set with the Oxford PPL manuals, but I can't find any reviews of those against AFE, Pooleys etc.

Would you suggest getting the peices separately, or is something like this:
PPL Standard Study Pack 'Deluxe' with Oxford PPL Manuals @ Flightstore Pilot Supplies (http://www.flightstore.co.uk/prod/PPLV3/) going to have everything I need to begin with? Other suggestions welcome!

Thanks in advance, and hopefully I'll be here for a while.
Alex

[Halfwayback]

Alex

I am moving this to the Private Flying forum where folks may have more advice than those who are further along the path to being a professional pilot.

Good luck with the training. It will be a buyer's market within months and i feel sure you will be able to get the terms that YOU want rather than THEY demand.

HWB

[Shunter]

As far as books go ask your school. Different schools have different preferences. The Air Pilot's Manual series are very common, and reasonably priced. You can pick most of them up on eBay for peanuts, but buy a new copy of Air Law as that changes over the years. Apart from that you'll need:

CRP-5 (don't bother with a CRP-1 if you intend to go commercial)
Ruler (calibrated in nautical miles)
Protractor (preferably a square one)
Some permanent pens (and some nail varnish remover)
A 1:500,000 chart covering your area (although wait until you need it before you buy it, or you may never use it before it goes out of date)
A kneeboard. Get one with a hole punched in the corner for stopwatch mounting, you'll need that for instrument flying. A4 is a better option for when you need to start calculating diversions in-flight. A3 need strapping round your leg and if you've got rugby thighs you'll soon find it cutting off your circulation as the elastic is never long enough!
PPL confuser. Useful for getting into the mindset of the exams.

Get the best headset you can afford. I've used all sorts, but having got a Bose-X set I can honestly say nothing I've tried even comes close in terms of both sound quality and comfort. The sheep seem to be obsessed with David Clark, but I find them horrible things which clamp your head like a vice.

Most importantly, you'll need: Lots of money.

[BackPacker]

Looks like it contains almost everything you need, with the exception of a fuel tester and a headset.

If you want to save yourself a bit of money, you can view JAR-FCL online, and I have never needed a study CD - although I bought the AFE books and I don't know how much the Oxford books rely on the CD being present for review questions and such.

You can also leave out the flight bag and just stuff everything in your favorite backpack. In fact, you'll find the more you fly the less you bring so the smaller the bag you need. But if you do get a bag make sure it's a long-lasting one, and this one does seem a bit cheap. It also doesn't seem to have a separate headset pocket.

Flight logs are very personal. Most of us make up our own, or use whatever the school prefers/provides. Pencils can be bought cheaper at Tescos and I don't understand why you would need three plotters: all you need is something which gives you angles and something which gives you distance in nm at the scale of your chart. But with those items we're talking mere pounds.

Looking at what's currently in my flight bag, you might consider some extra bits and pieces. Not strictly needed right now but if you're looking for Christmas presents, or want to save on postage...
- Headset and fuel tester as mentioned
- Safety vest (required at more and more airports)
- Some sort of torch/flashlight (I have the AA mini maglite and a Petzl Tactikka plus)
- A VFR flight guide (has the details on all the airports), for instance AFE or Bottlang
- A cheap digital watch with big numbers, set to UTC. If it has a chrono or countdown timer, even better.

[Mike Parsons]

What I have done is look on eBay and pick up each individual book, some used, some new - it doesn't matter. Instead of the £25 pound per book I have been picking them up for about £7 delivered. If you plan this strategically then you can pick them up in series of how you will study for them, rather than getting them all in one go.

I use the AFE ones, purely because the first one I got was PPL 1, therefore the rest would create the set. Just make sure they are recent if you are going on the eBay route.

If, for example you look here - AIR PILOT'S MANUAL FLYING TRAINING by TREVOR THOM ( 9781843360643 ) - Books & Audio Books at Pickabook.co.uk (http://www.pickabook.co.uk/bookdetails.aspx?ISBN=9781843360643) the Trev Thom books are very cheap on that website new. Probably work out cheaper than a kit. Build it up over time ;)

Because my finances are not infinite I thought saving £100 would go nicely toward a lesson. Each to their own - you may want a set of nice shiny new books. If so, when you have finished with them they WILL go on the bay with ease...

BTW, anyone with AFE Meteorology PM ME ;) <-- Last one to get!

[A and C]

I agree with almost all that Shunter has to say apart from the comments about the David Clark headsets.

After three headsets that all fell apart within 800 hours flying I went for a top of the range DC, 5000 hours later it is working just fine and my head is the same shape as it started!

A good headset is a "must have" but as with all things you will pay for quality.

[DavidHoul52]

Best kneeboard I have found is a table mat with bulldog clips. I agree A4 rather than A5 size. Don't strap it to your thigh or else you'll end up hating flying. Throw it in the back when you have finished your nav and approaching your final destination.

Don't waste your money on CD-ROMs.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

if I can convince them to be more 'flexible' with their payment terms!
Nobody's going to lend you money.

If you're sane you won't want to lend them money (see many previous threads on people losing thousands when the school goes bust).

So the only sane payment terms are that you pay for each flight when you land. There's nothing to be "flexible" about, really.

[stickandrudderman]

If you've been lingering here for a while you might already know, but just in case:
NEVER PAY UP FRONT!

[Sallyann1234]

Get yourself a cheap airband scanner, and spend some time listening to ATC and traffic in the circuit at your local airfield. You will learn a lot, as well as being more comfortable with RT when you are finally handed the mic.

[AlexXeno]

^ This is what I am least looking forward too. I did a few hours with the University Air Squadron and got more than a little stressed about RT. I assume listening to liveatc.net is not the same?

With reference to the 'flexible' payment terms, Ravenair do a PPL package (45 hours) for £6,500. I'd like to pay £1000 a month for 6 months, rather than, as you put it, lend them the money! If I pay for each lesson at a time, plus the extras it will be closer to £8,500, so there is also the siginificant cost saving as well as the reduced risk.

I didn't get the kit below, I plumped for the Oxford books, a PPL confuser, CRP-5 & the other stuff Shunter mentioned. Came to just over £200, which I think is reasonable.

Will wait to try a few headsets as I'd imagine it's quite a personal thing...

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I assume listening to liveatc.net is not the same?
You want to listen to traffic at your local field, to get used to the local procedures and even voices and personalities.
If I pay for each lesson at a time, plus the extras it will be closer to £8,500
So, in effect the school want to borrow thousands of pounds off you at what works out to be a seriously high rate of interest. Why would they want to do that? There is only one explanation: they need the cash, they have already tried to borrow it from their bank at a sensible rate of interest, and their bank has refused to lend them the money, having decided that they are too high a risk.

If a bank has already decided that they aren't going to risk lending money to these people, you'd be utterly mad to do the same thing yourself.

[AlexXeno]

I'm in Warrington, flying from Liverpool. What device would work over that distance?

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I'm in Warrington, flying from Liverpool. What device would work over that distance?
Can't help you there, I live a couple of miles from the airfield. Downstairs a Sony Air 7 will pick up what the pilots are saying, upstairs on a good day it'll just about get the tower as well.

So, one morning I was lying in the bath, listening to one of the instructors climbing up through the cloud to find out where the tops were. Eventually he broke through into sunshine at around 4,000', saying that he was on full throttle and just about able to hold straight-and-level - "never seen that much ice on the wings of a 152 before". (Note: (a) do not try this at home; (b) they don't make them like that any more.)

[Ivor_Novello]

My PPL starter kit was a cheque book :)

[Sallyann1234]

This is what I am least looking forward too. I did a few hours with the University Air Squadron and got more than a little stressed about RT. I assume listening to liveatc.net is not the same?

Not really. You need to listen to your local field and understand how people talk there so that you can relate it to the local conditions. If you can't hear it from home spend a while listening in the airport car park, then go and introduce yourself to the guys you have been listening to. Once you realise you are talking to real people the radio will seem less impersonal.
A suitable scanner will cost less than your first lesson and will always be useful as a standby. Just google for a local supplier.

[Justiciar]

Listen to stickandrudderman - don't pay large amounts of money up front. This forum is littered with students who have lost money doing this.

In the case of Ravenair, there are two companies with this general name of which one appears to be technically insolvent according to its last filed accounts. It also does not display its correct company details on its web site and so breaches the Companies Act. Be very certain who exactly you are paying if you go ahead with this as this will determin who you have your agreement with.

[skydriller]

With reference to the 'flexible' payment terms, Ravenair do a PPL package (45 hours) for £6,500. I'd like to pay £1000 a month for 6 months, rather than, as you put it, lend them the money! If I pay for each lesson at a time, plus the extras it will be closer to £8,500, so there is also the siginificant cost saving as well as the reduced risk.

Please listen carefully :

NEVER PAY UP FRONT!!

[flyingman-of-kent]

If you choose to pay anything up front, you may be partly or fully protected if you pay by credit card (not debit card). You would have to claim off the credit card company, and this could take time and there may be time restrictions or even the cover may not work for learning to fly.

Check your credit cards t's & c's carefully.

Good luck with the learning, and don't forget to enjoy what can be very hard but ultimately highly rewarding!

[KandiFloss]

Hello Alex.

When I was studying for my for my PPL written exams I got a few 'Air Pilot's Manuals' (some second hand ... but current) off ebay. I would also recommend that you buy a 'confuser' which was great help (but double check the answers as some of the 'correct answers' were incorrect :ugh:).

I would also recommend a fuel tester as you should really have one for when you fly regularly, as flying schools can get a bit cheesed off if you ask to borrow theirs. I use an A5 kneeboard for flying (which you can strap to your thigh) which I found more useful than an A4 one.

[liam548]

i got my starter kit from pooleys for around £180 and think it included all what is in that kit plus a nice bag to hold it all in.

Liam

[Deeday]

NEVER PAY UP FRONT!! That's exactly what I did, when I still had not found out about this forum. Yes, you take a chance, but you can get some fairly good deals too - see details below. I'm not exactly recommending it, just saying that paying upfront doesn't have to end up in a loss of money. In my case it's working out well: 25 h logged so far and counting, having used about 80% of my credit; and the included starter kit suits my needs perfectly.
Here is what I got for free, putting down in advance £ 6 grand of flight hours (an awful lot of money, I agree):
5% discount on the cost of the flight hour
A decent headset (Avcomm AC-900 PNR)
Reasonably sized flight bag
The full series of the Air Pilot's Manuals (bar vol. 5 - Instrument Flight)
The PPL Confuser
Pooley's Flight Guide
Pooleys CRP-1 Flight Computer
Square protractor
Long Ruler
A5 kneeboard
A5 flight log
Pilot's flying logbook
CAA aeronautical chart 1:500,000
Set of four chart markers
Aircraft's operating manualIf you know you are going to fly a lot or going commercial, then some items would probably need an upgrade (CRP-5, ANR headsets etc.) but I'm doing a NPPL, so the above is really all I need.

Soft landings.

Deeday

[AlexXeno]

No discount if I pay a lesson at a time though!

[skydriller]

Alex, its not just that you might lose your cash in a recession, which is when historically businesses go bust, especially those that rely on others spare cash (which they no longer have in a recession) for their survival........etc..

There is also this: What happens if, having paid for your entire couse, you find you dont get on with the instructor or with the CFI, or club attitude sucks or whatever? Believe me these things happen too, as told in many threads here on PPrune. Its not easy (or sometimes possible even) to walk away if you have invested (and thats what you are doing) your hard earned cash already.

If you must know, with regards to myself its a matter of do as I say, not what I did, as I got my PPL before I knew about PPrune, when the internet was just starting to be widely available and I actually paid for my PPL in 10 hour blocks to get a lower rate....... I would not have done this if I had seen all of the threads about flying schools going bust and students losing money. I was ignorant of the risk and I just didnt know what the UK flying scene was like.

Good luck, SD.

[Steve N]

Alex,

Some of the radio phraseology is about to change in March so suggest you don't buy a RT manual yet but download CAP413 when it changes and get a manual when they reflect the new "ATSOCAS" procedures

Steve

[AlexXeno]

I'll be paying on a per lesson basis as the general concensus suggests, first one being tomorrow at 8:30 :) Hopefully the weather is okay, will spend the evening reading Air Law 1.
Thanks for everyones advice!

[BackPacker]

Can't help you there, I live a couple of miles from the airfield. Downstairs a Sony Air 7 will pick up what the pilots are saying, upstairs on a good day it'll just about get the tower as well.

If your scanner has a removable aerial, it's probably connected with a BNC connector (round, requires about 1/4 turn anticlockwise to twist loose). If that's the case, it's fairly easy to make a really good antenna - technically called a dipole - yourselves.

Get hold of a sufficient length of "RG-58" wire. Usually black, this was used a decade ago as "thin ethernet" or plainly "ethernet" to network computers together. Any computer shop/techie with a sense of nostalgia will have miles of the stuff lying around doing nothing (I know I do). One end simply twists onto the scanner. From the other end, snip the connector off, and either splice out the core from the mantle, or use some fasteners to connect it to suitable lengths of household electricity wire. In any case, the core (or the wire fastened to it) should be vertical, pointing downwards, and the mantle (or the wire fastened to it) should be vertical, pointing upwards (or the other way around, it doesn't matter.

What does matter is the length of the vertical bits: 1/4 of the wavelength in the middle of the frequency band you're trying to monitor. For airband, that works out to about 59 cm.

Hang the antenna in the attic as high as you can, using only non-metallic components. Mine is attached with plastic tie-wraps to a piece of wooden floor trimming, then fastened with some velcro to a vertical roof support beam.

I can pick up all ground traffic, even the departure ATIS, from Schiphol airport which is about 10 miles away, and everything in the air for hundreds of miles around. Good sound quality too - much, much better than the tiny whip antenna my scanner came with.

Took me about 30 minutes to put together.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

it's fairly easy to make a really good antenna
Yes, I know, I've never quite got round to bothering. Main reason is that the conduit from the attic to the living room is a piece of half inch central heating pipe embedded in the concrete wall - it's already got a TV aerial downlead, a VHF radio downlead and a set of speaker cables in it, there's no room for another co-ax. (Although as we don't watch TV I suppose I could remove the TV co-ax to make room for it.)

Plus, I don't actually have the ethernet co-ax any more - someone who was obviously converting to CAT5 somewhat later than me took the whole lot off my hands!

[VCR]

Presumably a splitter on the VHF antenna would do? The bands are adjacent.

[Sallyann1234]

Presumably a splitter on the VHF antenna would do? The bands are adjacent.

Far from ideal. It will not be as efficient as a separate aerial. And for airband you need a vertically polarised aerial - the VHF one may well be horizontal.