Low Level VHF Frequency?

[P-T]

Is there a low level VHF Frequency that "civvie" pilots can listen out on when in the low flying system. As there is a UHF one for the military and I was wondering if there was a VHF alternate so that civilians can listen out on and improve airmanship/safety?

[dont overfil]

Nope.

It wouldn't help if there was because the RAF folks talk in jive.

No substitute for looking out the window.

DO.

[Fright Level]

when in the low flying system

Did you mean the open FIR? As in Class G airspace? No is the answer, most people are in a local area, talking to a FIS or radar service.

There are monitor/squawk frequencies when in the vicinity of major airports in the South East (details fell out of this month's magazines), there is also a "unicom" for uncontrolled fields but there is no centralised frequency that people broadcast on.

Mark 1 Eyeball as mentioned.

[K.Whyjelly]

Is there a low level VHF Frequency that "civvie" pilots can listen out on when in the low flying system. As there is a UHF one for the military and I was wondering if there was a VHF alternate so that civilians can listen out on and improve airmanship/safety?

Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Air Safety and Aviation | LowFlying | LFAs (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/WhatWeDo/AirSafetyandAviation/LowFlying/LFAs/)

If you mean LFA's then the answer is no. All aircraft are UHF and utilise the see and be seen principle (Mark1 eyeball) and so should any operators in these areas. Stay above 1000ft where possible (higher is safer) because silhouetted against the sky makes you easier to spot, and use CANP where possible.

[P-T]

The reason why I'm asking is, that I planned to go "Valley Flying" in South Wales in a Civilian aircraft, and was planning on staying between 500-1000", so just above the RAF boys talking in "jive" as you put it. Luckily I am fully conversant in jive!!

The mark one eyeball is always handy in the lookout department (but never good enough), but being forewarned is forearmed. The UHF Frequency is used as a listening watch, but not as a chat frequency.

P.S. The info on the LFS from the RAF site is good, I'll be programming my flight around the free days and the Wx!

[K.Whyjelly]

The reason why I'm asking is, that I planned to go "Valley Flying" in South Wales in a Civilian aircraft, and was planning on staying between 500-1000", so just above the RAF boys talking in jive

P-T.............just be aware that FJ's operating in the low flying system are considered low level below 2000ft msd. (rotary and training a/c <500ft). Full info here so you can consider and plan your ops safely:

In the United Kingdom, military fixed wing aircraft are considered to be low flying when they are flying
below 2000ft. Helicopters and propeller driven light aircraft are regarded as low flying when operating below
500ft. Fixed wing aircraft (except propeller driven light aircraft) are required to keep a strict minimum separation
distance (msd) of 250ft between the aircraft and the ground or any other object (trees, electricity pylons etc). For
less experienced aircrew this is increased to 500ft (msd). The Ministry of Defence authorizes a small amount of
low flying by fixed wing aircraft between 250ft (msd) and 100ft(msd), referred to as Operational Low Flying (see
paragraph 36 for further details) but this is restricted to three designated Tactical Training Areas (TTAs) and which
are described in further detail at paragraph 13. As a result of the review of helicopter low flying training (referred
to in the Summary) the normal minimum operating height for helicopters is now 100ft (above ground level)
however, they are permitted to operate at lower heights (and down to ground level) under certain circumstances.
7. The policy and regulation of all military low flying in the UK
is controlled by the Directorate of Air Staff (DAS) in the Ministry of
Defence, London, and administered by the Low Flying Operations
Squadron based at RAF Wittering. Users of the low flying system must
make a booking with Low Flying Booking Cell (LFBC), (part of the
Low Flying Operations Squadron) in advance of using the system (hence
the reference to “booked low flying” in the body of this publication).

[ShyTorque]

Safety Sense Leaflet 18: Military Low Flying | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=2586)

[GashCrewman]

I personally would not fly at that height through the valleys. Even in the mighty wokka we feel very venerable at that height, so we stick down at 100/50 feet when flying through Wales.

Of course it is open airspace and you have as much right to use it as the RAF does.

The solution is to do it at the weekend or bank holidays when the LFA is closed! But keep an eye out!!!

[Whopity]

Having spent a lot of time in large aircraft in the Welsh valleys betwen 250 and 1000 ft, the last thing you want is a light civil aircraft in there with you! Even if you had a UHF frequency, you would hear nothing, because military aircraft don't broadcast their position, the whole purpose of low flying is to remain undetected!

Why do you want to fly down valleys at an altitude that will leave you poorly placed in the event of an engine failure, and risk encountering high energy aircraft possibily operating in formation? You must be nuts!

I recall one Saturday morning being in a stream of 15 C130s when an F111 went through our formation at 90 degrees. It ovbviously hadn't seen anything!

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

that I planned to go "Valley Flying" in South Wales in a Civilian aircraft, and was planning on staying between 500-1000",

Good luck, especially this time of year... Its free airspace, and you have an equal right to use it as the Military, but you maybe need to ask yourself some "What if" questions.......... :ugh:

[K.Whyjelly]

Makes for sobering bedtime reading......................................Jaguar T2 XX843 vs Cessna at low level in Wales.


http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/2-1992%20XX843%20and%20G-BMHI%20.pdf

[P-T]

Thanks for all the inputs.

The reason i want to go down the valleys at 500-1000 feet is so that I can enjoy my flying again. Having been Military FJ aircrew I spent plenty of time at low level. I wanted to go back down to this level.

As for the safety issue of an engine failure, I am using a twin, which if nothing else will be going just as quick as a Herc/Dominie/Tucano. I believe the main issue I will be dealing with is the other a/c in the vicinity.

In was expecting some negative comments, but I mainly wanted to find out if there was a VHF freq. Now I know there isn't.

Thanks for all the help and comments - that is not a sarcastic bite, but a genuine comment.

Thanks KY, but I think I'll be safe now. Jaguars don't fly low level any more ;)