Average hours to first solo

[shanwen]

As a former ppl holder who went solo around the 21 hour mark [as a part time student] I am keen to find out what the industry average might be, if indeed such a statistic exists. Or are there simply too many variables to make this a meaningful statistic?

thanks, shanwen
:ok:

[BackPacker]

I would say the average is 15 hours with a standard deviation of 5 hours. Which basically means that most, but not all, do it after 10 to 20 hours.

This question has been asked before a number of times here. A lot of people posted their numbers plus any factors (prior gliding experience for instance) that may have influenced it. A search plus some statistical analysis might help narrow my guesstimates down.

But as others have said: once you've got that PPL, nobody cares anymore.

[coldair]

Well, I went solo after 7 hrs 50 mins.

I had a great instructor ( ex RAF ) who really put me at my ease.
On my very first flight he sat there with his arms crossed during my takeoff. No doubt he had his feet on the rudder without me noticing it, but he talked me through it and up we went.

I'll never forget that first dual flight. He made me feel relaxed and I trusted him totaly.

I did not expect to solo so soon but the fact that he trusted me and I trusted him resulted in a first solo that I will never forget.

John Hill, great pilot & instructor. Thanks John :)

[dontpressthat]

9hrs ish...

Has little relevance though as there are so many variables that can affect how long it takes. Just enjoy yrself and dont worry to much about stats like that.:ok:

DPT

[JW411]

It was 8 hours for me (in a Tiger Moth at Perth).

[dont overfil]

Coldair,
My instructor was not ex RAF but he got his rating from an ex RAF guy.
Same thing. He had me land on my air experience flight. He had me hooked. I soloed at 9.45.
He was brilliant in the air but the briefings were minimal.
He was a part time PPL instructor.
DO.

[Pace]

7 hrs 40 mins but it is not very relevant as weather comes into play. Ie you maybe ready at 7 hrs then hit a bad period of weather. What do you do? sit on your back side going rusty? No you carry on gaining experience and keeping current until the conditions are good for you.

15 hrs is probably a good bench mark but not that relevant. There could be an arguement that you are sent solo when you are ready to do your solo cross countries and attach the lot together.

When I started flying I had a wife and young baby and no money. My ambition was to fly an aircraft on my own and then to drop the lot. 20 odd years later 4000 hrs and an ATP I often wonder what went wrong with that initial ambition :)

The more time and experience you build up the better as you have to be safer than aiming for a minimum hour to solo record.

Pace

[airborne_artist]

Too many variables to make much of the first solo stats, really. Age, lesson frequency, instructor. Plus I suspect people may well solo later these days, as instructors perhaps are more cautious.

[MarcJF]

Went solo at 10hrs 15, was great at the time. Looking back I do wonder whether it's too soon. I was a non flyer previously. You wouldn't let someone drive a car alone after 10hrs instruction.

[moonym20]

I was very lucky,
I did 3.8 over two years.. did nothing over four years (no money) then flew solo after 50 mins so just under 5 hours

[daria-ox]

What kind of an instructor would let a student with 4 hours flown go solo? A little bit more would be ok.. but 4? :ugh:

[moonym20]

one whom is very confident of their students ability and is fully aware of their background in aviation

[MarcJF]

maybe, but after only 4, 10, 12 hours, how equipped are we to deal with anything which might go wrong? Would be interesting to know the accident stats for students first solo, maybe im getting too cautios in old age

[wombat13]

The issue of after how many hours a stude goes solo is irrelevant. I was thirteen hours. I know some who were shorter and others who took longer, many of both groups who are better pilots than me.

In my experience, once you have your PPL and a few hours behind you, there is no correlation between hours before first solo and qualities as a pilot.

To those who are fretting about this issue - it is a complete and utter nonsense.

It is what is best for you. Even if you do not appreciate it, much of what you are learning whilst circuit bashing P/UT with a FI beside you, will be of benefit later.

The Wombat

[Whirlybird]

48 hours fixed wing, 30-ish rotary (wasn't counting precisely by then).

There you are, now I've really messed up all those averages for you!

I also hope that makes a welcome interlude in yet another thread which looks set to go something like this: "I went solo in 5 hours"..."well, I did it in 3 hours, and I had bad weather too, and a broken leg"..."I did it in 2 hours way back when we flew open cockpit taildraggers and were also getting shot at on downwind"... "I did it in 0.7689 hours"....etc, etc, etc.

'Solo oneupmanship', I think they call it. They do now anyway. :)

[astir 8]

Figures I've seen indicate about 10 hours as a base then add 1 hour per year of age from about 21 upwards.

ie if you're 40 its 10 + 19 = 29 hrs

Us poor old ****ers just don't learn so fast - and forget even quicker :uhoh:. Of course, if you only fly every 3 weeks or have a rubbish instructor or bad weather or ..........

[stoneyrosetreered]

I do agree, I suppose it could be said that at about 5 hours I knew how to fly, takeoff and land the can but it wasn't for another 4 hours till I went solo. Under 4 hours and you lack general practice even if you can fly it. But congratulations anyway your the first I have heard to do it in so few hours.

[airborne_artist]

'Solo oneupmanship', I think they call it. They do now anyway.

Since it's only an issue for boys, it's called w!lly-waving :ok:

[yakker]

As Astir says it depends on age. My driving instructor reckoned the number of hours required to pass your test, was about the same as your age.

As Coldair remarked, its more a reflection on how good your instructor is. I was bashing around the circuit seemingly unable to land the aircraft. Then I had a different instructor, one hours instruction, problem solved.

For willy waving purposes, I will not get mine out, 22 hours (aged 41).

[BackPacker]

Come on guys. The Wright brothers went solo on their first flight. Try and beat that.

(Granted: they didn't do circuits, flaps, carb heat, radio, landing clearances and all the other things that make our lives so complicated today.)

[Pace]

As Astir says it depends on age. My driving instructor reckoned the number of hours required to pass your test, was about the same as your age.

Yakker

As most of us here have the mental age of around seven :) seven hours to solo sounds about right.

Pace

[AMEandPPL]

airborne_artist probably made the most important point here :

Age, lesson frequency, instructor

Lesson frequency is of paramount importance. If lessons are once a month, or even less, the one spends at least a third of the next lesson catching up on what has been forgotten since. If lessons are much more frequent, say once a week, or even more, then much more reinforcement of acquired skills can occur.

In many, especially the young, lesson frequency is solely dependant on what can be afforded ! So, as always, finance comes into it !

My own first solo was 26 years ago, but I'll keep the hours to myself !

:ok:

[Lister Noble]

"Figures I've seen indicate about 10 hours as a base then add 1 hour per year of age from about 21 upwards."

I was 62 years old when I did my solo,using above 41 plus 10=51 hours to solo

Well I did it in 19 hrs so I must be much better than average:}

It really is a load of old b****cks,you go when the instructor says so.

When I was learning there was a fixation around 10 hrs to solo,and it made my life more than a bit miserable thinking I was nowhere near ready.

It could be useful for the student to be told by the instructor on day one that it is not a race,that going solo at x hours does not make you a better pilot,and that the world is full of flash bas****s trying to be one up.
Lister:).

[Whirlybird]

It could be useful for the student to be told by the instructor on day one that it is not a race,that going solo at x hours does not make you a better pilot,and that the world is full of flash bas****s trying to be one up.

Lister, I tell my students something similar, very early on. The difference it makes is precisely...nil. :{ Most pilots are competitive high achievers, and even if something isn't a competition, they'll somehow make it into one.

[Pegpilot]

1977, RAF Manston ATC gliding school
6-weekend course
Kirby Cadet Mk III
40 launches to first solo
average flight time 3 minutes
total pre-solo time 2 hours
They sure don't teach 'em like that any more.
Not sure I was ever taught to turn right, though ??
(My solo glider, XN246, is suspended from the ceiling of Southampton air museum, I believe in testament to my achievement in bringing it back in one piece !)

[flyingman-of-kent]

Including a few trial lessons, and the first stint (17 hours) until money ran out, I solo'd at 25 hours and was jolly happy with this! There was also a 3 year gap between the first 17 hours and the next 8 to solo, so maybe I could claim 8?

It could have been a couple of hours lower but the day they said I was ready to solo I did not have a spare pair of glasses with me so was stopped on a technicality!

I then completed the PPL course at 59 hours, again I was jolly happy!

[batninth]

Lady Whirls,
Lister, I tell my students something similar, very early on. The difference it makes is precisely...nil. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/boohoo.gif Most pilots are competitive high achievers, and even if something isn't a competition, they'll somehow make it into one.It may be for some but are you sure that there isn't a measure on insecurity here. I would suggest that most folks coming to pilot training are probably very proficient at other things in life, such as driving a car. Then suddenly after a long break from learning, they are thrown into a new situation where they think they are doing something badly & start to worry that they've lost the ability to take on new skills. In these cases it would be reasonable to seek reassurance by asking "Am I as good as everyone else?".

Of course we'll always have those who say "Solo? Piece of duff. I was so good at the taxi on my first lesson, the instructor hopped out at the hold point and let me take it from there" but their words will probably float past and be totally ignored. It's the guys who say "Actually, it took be about 15/20/25 hours" that will be taken into mind with the recipient mentally saying "Phew...at least it's not just me"

[Lister Noble]

Exactly,I've sailed around bits of Europe with my wife,I've raced cars in an amateur way and run a successful farming oriented business.
I'm not at all special, just someone who enjoys mechanical things,but I was sure I was behind the plot when I passed 10 hrs without solo.
The instructor was excellent,and we are still good friends,but it would have helped me a lot if he had told me that there is no exact time target for solo.
He didn't imply there was,but I thought there was!
Lister:)

[Whirlybird]

You really can't blame instructors for not being mind-readers, and not understanding about students' massive and unnecessary feelings of insecurity. Most of us have this extremely strange idea that people are learning to fly....for fun.

[A and C]

It,s the landings that count not the hours, flying the average civilian airfield you will get about 5 to 6 landings per hour, instructing as I do at a military airfield we can do the 6 landings in about half that time.

The number of student landings are about the same, it just takes us a lot less flying time to send someone solo.

[Whirlygig]

The attitude of ones instructor makes a difference. I soloed in 40 ish hours but my instructor wanted to make sure my autorotations were OK and I'd done a couple of engine off landings. However, after that I completed the PPL in a relatively short time of about another 25 hours.

It's no real indication of your progress!

Cheers

Whirls

[batninth]

Hold on! Two Lady Whirls? This is getting so confusing....:hmm:

Lady Whirls 1(*) said:
Most of us have this extremely strange idea that people are learning to fly....for fun.

& then Lady Whirls 2 said:
It's no real indication of your progress!

Both are absolutely correct, and with the benefit of hindsight I guess a lot of us can look back and agree with that but at the time it feels much different. I suspect here that learning styles may come in to play as well, some people may take it all in at the beginning of their lessons and keep it in mind. But a lot of us need it repeating later on.

Personally I started with all the good intentions, but got lost in the mist of "I must land this thing properly or else it stops me going solo" and went downhill from there.

Partly it was a gentle chat on the clubhouse veranda with my instructor whilst watching the sun sink slowly into the evening that helped me to get it back in perspective after about 10 hours of instruction, but also (echoing Lady Whirls 1) when on final an exasperated voice next to me said "You're doing this for fun, just have fun".

Frankly it was the fun message that fixed it for me, I'd forgotten that I was doing it to have fun, and after that I used that as my mantra.

I'd say that reminding folks down the line, when their mouths are dry & they're trying desparately not to mess up again, that it is fun could be a huge boost.

(*) Numbering of Lady Whirls does not imply anything. I just worked it out on the fact that if I were flying from Ooop North, I would pass the good Whirlybird first before I got to the good Whirlygig - which would be embarassing if I thought I was heading for Northumbria.

[Whirlybird]

batninth,

It's very simple really. My good friend Whirlygig and I worked out long ago how not to confuse our poor colleagues on Rotorheads...

Whirlybird = Whirly

Whirlygig = Whirls

That said, we cope with all the other variations too. :)

[Lister Noble]

And theres me thinking you were one and same,well to be honest I didn't notice.
Sorry:)

[Shunter]

Went solo at about 20hrs. Passed PPL skills test at 43hrs. Just goes to show, first solo doesn't mean a right lot in the grand scheme of things.

[SR71-Blackbird]

Went solo after 6hrs in a Piper SuperCub. Never flown before or even sat in a plane - apart from scheduled airlines.

Instructor was the don, ex military, but not from Miramar lol
Certainly the best five grand I've ever spent.

:):)

[kevmusic]

Dad was in the Glider Pilot Regiment. Brother built & flew superb tissue & balsa models. (Background in aviation.) I play jazz piano, trumpet & drums to a professional standard. I can sail. I love driving and drive an 'interesting' classic sports car. (Coordination, spatial awareness, talented polymath etc.)

I went solo in 17 hours, and 26 years later I'm still trying to complete the PPL.....beat that!! :}

[Piper_Driver]

I did mine after 8 hrs. I had some previous sailplane experience, but no license in the sailplane.

[Fark'n'ell]

Went solo at about 20hrs. Passed PPL skills test at 43hrs. Just goes to show, first solo doesn't mean a right lot in the grand scheme of things.

Right on Shunter It's getting PPL that counts.:ok:

[gc2750]

35 hours and counting. I am hoping it will be under 40.

[aseanaero]

At age 23 about 4 hrs to go solo in a glider (aero tug and intensive 7 day course) then with about 35 hrs of glider time 8.6 hrs dual before solo in a C172 with most of it being circuits. Age 24 and flew everyday for 5 days.

Memories of my first glider solo was looking into the rear of the cockpit on downwind to see if I was really alone , I felt like I did once when I was a little kid having climbed a really big tree and now I had to get myself down in one piece ...

The GOOD thing about spreading out your lessons and taking your time is you get lots of exposure to different conditions in different seasons.

Nothing wrong with training until you are really ready but 20yrs ago it was definitely a competition for me and the other students.

I saw other students who never went solo and just gave up as they couldn't convince themselves or their instructors that they could do it , they could fly but lacked confidence for whatever reason to go solo and would occasionally do something stupid to spook the instructor, probably saved their lives .

[ACARS]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but there does appear to be some stigma attached to 'hours to solo' but once he/she has their license, it's look how many hours I have!

I am 36yrs old with 31hours. The 31hours are spread over 10years! (19 in the last 12months).

I could have gone solo in the last 8hours but I put my medical off because of my weight - I passed the medical last year but then my job took me abroad. Only 2hrs flown since my medical.

Time off later this year to get my license. I plan to solo by 40 and complete my license by 65 (that is hours and not age btw!!).

Does 65 hours bother me? No it's 65hours experience - okay it's cost me more money, but that's all.

[Nibbler]

If going solo in just a few hours meant anything CAA would give you a medal with a special entry on your license (and charge you for it), your instructor would fill out some sort of certificate for you and of course no one would ever let you forget and you could wear that ribbon on your chest with pride.

In the real world a low hours first solo gives no indication as to the quality of the final product - i.e. a party bore with a pilots license that can't help telling you about it. The really interesting stories are always from pilots who overcame some personal or other difficulty to achieve what they have.

On that note maybe there should be a topic "how long it took me to go solo and why", rather than having another pointless willy waving session.

[bjornhall]

Now, Nibbler, let's also remember that a short time to first solo does not mean someone is a bad person... ;)

The question is repeatedly asked and thus repeatedly answered... So what? No need to get too terribly upset by someone going solo in 8 hours and, when asked, confessing to it...

18 hours here btw, FWIW, spread out over a year and a half... Not the ideal way of doing it, but it works! :ok:

[b_sta]

On that note maybe there should be a topic "how long it took me to go solo and why", rather than having another pointless willy waving session.

I think that sounds like a great and interesting idea actually.

[fleebag]

7 hours on the dot @ 17 years. My mother had to drive me to the airport lol. For some reason she wouldn't come with on my hours building solo from Moorabbin to Uluru.

[srobarts]

I was one of the lucky ones who got a flying scholarship back in the 60's. So a residential course at Carlisle got me to first solo in 8hrs 15 mins over 8 days. The gov't only paid for first 30 hrs, so I returned some 7 mths later for the remaining 10hrs to PPL. IMHO the total immersion environment worked well for me.

[Rhyspiper]

11 Hours as a 16 year old who didn't know his a*** from his elbow! Learn't to fly before I learn't to shave!! :}

[Aytonace]

So far I have just done 9 hours since I started to fly 2 months ago and my instructor said I will be ready after my next lesson to solo. I have an excellent instructor which makes a big difference. I firmly believe you are only as good as your instructor. If I make a mistake I'm told to do it again and again until I get it right! Its all about good airmanship which you get taught alongside good habits.

[Big Pistons Forever]

As an instructor the spread for all my students was 4.6 hrs to 24 hrs

The 4.6 hrs was a 17 yr old who had about 600 unofficial hours on his fathers
Supercub, Cessna 185, and DH Beaver (all on wheel, skis, and floats).

The 24 hrs was a middle aged housewife. She was ready to go earlier but just did not have the personal confidence. One day after a good flight she turned to me and said " I'm ready " so I got out of the airplane and sent her on her way.

[rolling20]

I went solo in 6 hours!! Ok I had had 10 hours dual ten years before in the UAS, but that had nowt to do with it..Honest!!!!!

[triton140]

Late starter with 11.4 hours in the book and still a long way to go to solo despite great instructor.

But hell, I'm having fecking heaps of fun - and that's why I started out in the first place. So who cares .......

[PompeyPaul]

Funny, as you are learning the "first solo" is all you can think about but as I look back now with my 90 hours (yeah, still very inexperienced tyro) the first solo is not the begin all and end all. What about:

Hours to:

1. First Solo
2. First Solo Nav
3. QXC
4. GST
5. First international flight
6. First flight in another country (i.e. not flying from home base to abroad)
7. Managing to scare yourself sh*tless
8. Finding something in the nick of time that was VERY dangerous (fuel in water, wrong pressure setting on altimeter, realising you've got the wrong airfield etc)
9. becoming lost for the first time (luckily still not had that yet although I've been sure of position to varying degrees over the hours)
10. Flying with somebody else and being less than sure of their flying ability.
11. Posting something on pprune that generally receives a positive response
12. Allowing somebody else control for a few minutes (still not done that one, nobody I fly with wants to touch the controls even if I were willing).

Whilst I can remember every second of my first solo like it happened 5 mins ago, there are so many milestones in aviation. Some much more interesting, some down right more terrifying.

[News Shooter]

I know nobody will believe this, but I soloed at 1.5 hours. It's a long story, but suffice it to say I found myself five hundred feet up in the air with no clue about what made an airplane fly. The final result was not pleasant, but I survived.

My instructor had a complete brain fade at my expense.

[Redbird72]

pompeypaul:

1. First Solo
2. First Solo Nav
3. QXC
4. GST
5. First international flight
6. First flight in another country (i.e. not flying from home base to abroad)
7. Managing to scare yourself sh*tless


In my experience, number 7 is not necessarily six steps after number 1 :eek:

[L'aviateur]

Took me 18.5 hours to solo; I flew the first 18 hours over 2 weeks and for some reason just wasn't judging the landing correctly, took a week off, then suddenly and strangely landing seemed to make sense to me.

Passed my PPL first time in 47.8 hours, so it can't have been that bad.(although if anyone saw my landing at Beverley today would probably argue otherwise!)

[Nibbler]

This thread has got a whole lot better recently! Some funny and interesting stories at last :ok:.

bjornhall - you are of course quite right I was perhaps being a bit general there!

For myself 8.4 hours but then I had a fairly intensive run at it and I'd flown a glider solo at 16. I think it's all about confidence and your instructors confidence in you and there are many factors which can turn under 10 to over 20 for most people.

[pug]

Managed a first solo today, quite a bit over the average though. Still a long way to go :ok:

[srobarts]

Congratulations, great feeling isn't it? I still remember how long that ten mins felt - shirt was a tad damp too.....

[swordsman]

I seem to remember sending a natural ace RAF flying scholorship cadet off on his first solo and discovering afterwards he had only done 3 hours 15 minutes.Stapleford Flying Club summer 84.I think his name was Hitchcock.A nice chap and a pleasure to teach.I suspect he did well in the airforce.Any one know of his whereabouts ?

[Grueber]

1. First Solo
2. First Solo Nav
3. QXC
4. GST
5. First international flight
6. First flight in another country (i.e. not flying from home base to abroad)
7. Managing to scare yourself sh*tless


Due to money shortage when reaching 1 (approx. 10 hrs) and spare time shortage after reaching 1, unfortunatley I did not make it to stage 2 and beyond. Except for 7...

Flying an Ultralight, I believe on second or third solo, I caught a nasty crosswind seconds before touch down, which made the aircraft roll rather hefty. Wingtip had roughly 40-50cms ground clearance, but I did manage to get the plane down safely.

T-shirt was soaking wet, pretty scary event if you have no experience. But looking back it was fun.

Hopefully I will find the time to start flying again, but probably on a glider rather than on an ultralight.

[agaviator]

I soloed in 6 hours and have over 30K now. I just soloed a student yesterday
with about 15 hours but he could have done it much sooner. We did hood time
and night instruction before solo.

Skyking :)

[W2k]

Solo in 22 hrs, PPL(A) in 58 hrs. And I'm 27 so I can't blame my old age ;)

[JP1]

Since this thread had been resurrected, I will add that time to solo is also dependent upon the era in which you learnt to fly.

Pre-war/wartime having no H&S culture probably knocked 5+ hours off time to solo.

2011 in a H&S crazy, litigious society add on 5!!!

[johnboyy2g]

Well, I started flying, I was 17 years old, flying out of a small county airport. My instructor was ex US Airforce. He was the best instructor I ever had. He said I was ready to solo and I had just over 3 hours. He said that although he though I was ready, lets take the Citabria up and practice some in it. Now, understand, we trained in a C152. We took the Citabria up twice once just TO adn LNDs and the second time, we went acrobatic. That was EXCITING.:D

He soloed me at 4.5 hours. I flew a few more hours and then dropped out for 30 years.

I decide to get my PPL, I wanted good instruction, I came to a part 141 school, I believe I had 13 hours when they soloed me. I got my PPL and then my IR and now my CPL

I know I fly well, but I think my skills were sharper when I was 17, I felt I was the plane and could feel every movement. It was instinctive. Now, I fly with my mind, more than instinct, but I think some of that has slowly returned.

[MarkR1981]

For what its worth I soloed in about 12hours and PPL'd in about 49hours (I think)

But IMHO as many others have said, this really is completely irrelavant nonsense, and is not something I would recommend that current or prospective students worry about.

In my opinion what makes a good pilot as with many things, is mainly down to having the correct learning attitude and a risk profile that is suitable for your experience and aircraft, and not based on getthereitis.

Flying should be fun, but we should never stop learning. Obtaining a PPL should be seen as merely the starting point, therefore time to first solo bears into insignificance tbh.

[GliFly]

Again FWIW, 7hrs 25 mins in a Tiger in 1958 taught by the late Dave Campbell at Luton FC as a Flying Scholarship pupil. Great instructor and great times for a then 17-year old. Then the same year, 12 launches to solo in a glider.
But in real terms, of course, it's meaningless really.

[Neptunus Rex]

3:15; 6:00!

What nonsense. No instructor with even the most brilliant student can cover all the necessary air exercises in that short time. After the upper air exercises, it then takes at least two hours of uninterrupted circuit training to achieve the requisite "three unassisted circuits and landings" required for a first solo!

Any Flying Instructor sending a student solo in less than 10 hours should be seriosly examined by the CFI. (That's Chief Flying Instructor for the cousins.)

[Cows getting bigger]

Hey Neptunus, you really want to watch that blood pressure. :)

Anyway, I solo'ed in 7:10 during the 1980's. I wasn't a S-Hot student but it was full time, 2-3 slots/day. I now teach PPL students and would say that, on average, they tend to go off on their own somewhere between 12-18hrs (beware, I'm using a particularly broad brush here).

Looking back, I think we teach more specific skills nowadays and cover more eventualities. It could be argued that some of these eventualities we used to run 'at risk'. It could also be argued that we do not need to teach all these skills before sending solo. Importantly, there is a subjective requirement that is never articulated in the training manual/SOPs. A student pilot may have ticked all the necessary boxes but is not ready to go it alone.

Personally, I weigh-up all the variables and possibilities and would never encourage a student pilot to aim for a particular target. Unfortunately, a noticeable majority of student pilots are youngsters who don't notice the journey on the way to their destination. :sad:

[Whirlybird]

Looking back, I think we teach more specific skills nowadays and cover more eventualities. It could be argued that some of these eventualities we used to run 'at risk'. It could also be argued that we do not need to teach all these skills before sending solo.

And suppose you don't, and someone crashes on the runway while the new pilot is on his/her first solo, and he has to land somewhere else? It's happened in the past. Shouldn't he be at least slightly equipped to cope with it? Or is a boast by the student and/or instructor that he soloed in single-digit hours so much more important?

[Cows getting bigger]

Whirly, I don't have a straight answer to your question. It still comes down to risk management. Take your scenario - the answer depends upon:

How many runways are available
The need/desire for fire cover
The number of other aircraft in the sky
The diversion options
etc etc

My point is that we can be overly protective as a result of not making a sensible risk assessment. There are obvious things that must be taught and demonstrated to a satisfactory standard. There are others that seem to have been developed as folklore (I've seen instructors insist on short/soft field techniques prior to first solo). Alternatively, we can adopt the Health and Safety, "No" culture.

As I previously said, we shouldn't create false milestones based around time to solo; the markers should be a set of clearly defined and reasonable criteria.

[Crash one]

With all the instructors here extolling the whys & wherefores of covering all possibilities before solo. I went solo after 14 hrs. Not current, but having about 100 hrs on gliders. I then did about 2hrs consolidation, during one of these I entered a small cloud on downwind, all went white for some 30sec while I concentrated on the AI, no problems. On landing it occured to me to ask my instructor if I could please stall the a/c at some time just to check it's characteristics. Deathly hush in the office, I was asked to wait outside a moment! "Next time, exercise 10A.B" etc. I also did some 25hrs of navigation exercises, I never once got lost, I was never "unsure of position" I was never purposefully lost by any instructor, it was just, "plod on yet again to xyz or wherever". 66hrs to NPPL.

[moreflaps]

Time to first solo also depends on how many exercises/skills your school thinks you need to master doesn't it? In my case it was not just circuits but also comms. failure, finding alternates, EFATO, FLWOP, stalling, go-arounds and when to go around as well as 3 landing configs. (glide, flapless and short field). Nobody could learn/master all that in under 10 hours I think. The authorizing instructor quizzed me for 20 minutes as to what I would do if the field was closed due to an accident etc. etc. The actual first solo circuit was such a non-event that I barely remember it. First solo X-country was when "it" really hit me.

Cheers

[24Carrot]

Solo was easier in "the old days"!

I have just started reading "Sagittarius Rising" by Cecil Lewis. In 1915 he went solo in 1.5 hours, in a "Maurice Farman Longhorn".

However, the Longhorn climbed at 40 Knots, so I would guess it stalled at 25-30. He doesn't mention runways, so I guess they flew from a big field, always into wind. From his brief description crashes were routine, but one was expected to survive them. ("How we laughed" when George crashed into the sewage farm...)

On the other hand he got a combat posting after 13 hours:eek:, which he did consider inadequate.

[mad_jock]

And the most crucial factor!!!! Does the instructor have a pressing need to squeeze one out?

[The Old Fat One]

3:15; 6:00!

What nonsense. No instructor with even the most brilliant student can cover all the necessary air exercises in that short time. After the upper air exercises, it then takes at least two hours of uninterrupted circuit training to achieve the requisite "three unassisted circuits and landings" required for a first solo!

Any Flying Instructor sending a student solo in less than 10 hours should be seriosly examined by the CFI. (That's Chief Flying Instructor for the cousins.)


NR

Air Cadets on scholarships usually have a good deal of prior time on gliders including powered gliders. Normally they will have soloed in glider at the very least. Quite a few will be gliding instructors, some with solo cross country time. The scholarships are very highly structured and audited by RAF CFS. The pass rate for solo within 12 hours is well over 90 percent and the average is around 10 hrs 30 mins to solo. 8 -9 hours is common place, 7 hours is rare. I expect said Hitchcock, probably had additional flying time elsewhere under his belt. Being an ace has nothing to do with it - there is a lengthy competency checklist to tick off and exams to pass just as you would expect.

PS

Mad Jock....10/10 as always :ok:

[Slap Landing]

Hi all

I'm new to this forum so be nice...

I'm currently training for a PPL and have done just under 30hrs; 7 of which have been solo, with 4.5 of those being navex's. My 1st solo was compelted after 9hrs 15mins (this was delayed by an hour or two due to my AME being on leave and Optom. availability).

I will add that I was an Air Cadet flying gliders and also currently Mil ATC. Personally I've found thus far that a substantial theoretical knowledge of circuits/procedures/ATC has helped enormously with R/T and general awareness, so much so that confidence in my limited ability, and concentration required to fly the aeroplane are vastly increased hopefully without arrogance :hmm:.

In my inexperienced opinion, a little knowledge can go a long way to building self-confidence.

[Maoraigh1]

With a lot of glider winch launches and landings, and two excellent instructors, I soloed after 3 hours 5 minutes (including a 30m flight in a Tiger for spinning) at Thruxton in 1964. That was on a VERY Simple Single Engine Aircraft, a Jackeroo.
No brakes, flaps, radio or any other electrics. No ATC. Up to 8 (or 10?) other aircraft in the circuit, and Middle Wallop nearby. I completed the 30 hour PPL in 25 days. Of course for the navigation exercises, I just followed the magenta line. The instructors didn't see anything wrong with me using a magenta china graph.

[mad_jock]

Ya see its the No ATC which makes the difference xxx

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Did it in under and hour and blind folded, i flared just by using my sense of smell.

Who cares, you did when you did it, you're still alive so you can't be that bad.

[mad_jock]

Don't lie Kiwi you just knew were the sheeps arse was at the end of the runway

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Listen mate, the love between a man and his animal is sacred and i won't have it sullied here, when i go flying i take flossie with me.

[Cows getting bigger]

.... and Kiwi had to do it all 'upside down'.

[Pom pom]

5 hours 45 minutes, which, referring to my log book, included stalling and spinning and obviously EFATO, flapless etc. (Cessna 152, 1982, UK, Regional Airport).

[FlyingKiwi_73]

... and Kiwi had to do it all 'upside down'.

yeah flying here is a bit different,.... its all BLUE SIDE down... :-)

[cumulusrider]

7 hrs 23 min in a glider. 18 months later i started ppl training in a cessna 150 from a bronxe C and went solo after about 2 1/2 hrs

[Pace]

I was sent solo on my trial flight before I started the PPL course.

It was all a mistake really. I was really surprised when the instructor said " right then off you go".

Microsoft flight sim was a Godsend and somehow I made it to a near perfect landing.

The CFI must have had a bad dose of food poisoning as he was waiting to greet me looking as green as green can be.
Later found out that they had sent the first solo on the trial flight and me on the first solo. He looked a bit like me! Leather Jacket and RayBans!

They never charged me for the trial flight probably because I didnt have an instructor with me but hey ho :E

Can someone tell me? is that a record? or do people who land aeroplanes after the pilot drops dead at the controls count as first solos?
Maybe they are classified as P1S as they were talked down by ATC? So I must be the record holder for earliest first solo?

You will be ready when you are ready and the weather is ready so dont fret!

[Pom pom]

Dear Pace

I think from what I've read on PPRuNe that you are a very accomplished professional pilot, no doubt with much to be proud of. As a low hours PPL, who works hard to be able to fund my limited flying activities, I find it quite saddening that a fellow (though much, much more experienced) aviator feels it necessary to ridicule the responses of those, including myself, who have only a few flying achievements that maybe they ought to be allowed to feel just a little bit proud of.

What do you think?

PP:)

[Pace]

Pom pom
Far from it ! We often have threads on how long to first solo! That then usually goes into a contest about who went the earliest ! For a new student who may take longer than some of the quoted hours reading those figures could be soul destroying.
There may be many factors often weather related where a student builds up hours to first solo. Pilots have different ability levels or even commitments which means that their first solo takes longer.
So my Humorous piece was not to ridicule but to highlight in a humerous way how unimportant it is whether you take 7 hrs 15 hrs or 20 hrs plus.
You will go solo when you and the weather right it's not a competition or a willy waving exercise.
If you took what was supposed to be a light hearted emphasis as mocking first solo students then you could not be further from the truth that was not the message I intended to get over.
If you went solo in 5 hrs 45 mins then you must be a natural pilot as when I went solo many moons ago I thought I was quick at 8 to 9 hrs.
5 hrs 45 mins is very fast to solo so congratualtions.

Addendum

very accomplished professional pilot Just take off the very accomplished. I fly bottom of the pile business jets and multi engine pistons and turbines. There are far more accomplished and knowlegable pilots in these forums than me

Pace

[CharlieDeltaUK]

Put aside for a moment those at the extreme (ie those who go solo and get PPL very quickly because they are naturally gifted and, I guess, those at the other extreme who would be dangerous in charge of a power drill). Of the remaining 99% of student pilots, is there any correlation between stats for first solo and completing PPL and their eventual competence once they've been qualified for a while? In other words, do the fast learners actually become better pilots? If competence were plotted on a graph against time, does the curve flatten out for us plodders at a lower level than the those who get PPL on their 17th birthday?

[mad_jock]

Nothing thats down on paper but....

What you find is that ppl pilots fall into 3 groups.

1. Good hand eye and solo quite quickly.

2. Methodical and think and can take long periods of repetative work cycles.

3. Can do both.

The 1st group go solo quickly but struggle with the nav.

2nd take a bit longer going solo but have zero issues with NAV

3rd are what the potential commercial pilots should be in.

[24Carrot]

IIRC Sir Francis Chichester took 24H to solo, but was a seriously good navigator, so he would be an "MJ2".

Since this thread is supposed to be about average hours to solo, and I think a bit of selective reporting is going on, I will volunteer that I took about 27 hours. And that doesn't bother me at all. It did then, though!

[Pom pom]

Thank you Pace for your reply. I understand your point of view and comments now. Though I must add my own to your final statement: anyone that flies bottom of the pile business jets and multi engine pistons and turbines is a bit of a Skygod IMHO!

Regards, PP:ok:

[Big Pistons Forever]

Nothing thats down on paper but....

What you find is that ppl pilots fall into 3 groups.

1. Good hand eye and solo quite quickly.

2. Methodical and think and can take long periods of repetative work cycles.

3. Can do both.

The 1st group go solo quickly but struggle with the nav.

2nd take a bit longer going solo but have zero issues with NAV

3rd are what the potential commercial pilots should be in.

Actually I would say the group in choice "2" would be best suited for commercial flying. As for the correlation between solo times and time to finish the license, my personal experience flying instructing leads me to believe that there is no correlation except for the exceptional outliers (ie the naturally extremely talented or the truly hopeless). There are too many variables at play with weather, time and aircraft availability/servicability, etc etc which influence the total time required. In any case the only things that matters is the fundamental question. When you are awarded the PPL do you have the judgement, skills, and knowledge to fly safely ?

[thing]

Apparently Johnnie Johnson, highest scoring fighter ace in the RAF in Europe during WWII was such a crap pilot during training he was almost scrubbed. So time to solo doesn't have much bearing on the pilot you will become.

[mad_jock]

Actually I would say the group in choice "2" would be best suited for commercial flying

In the main but the ability to not crash when the AP drops out would be nice.

[Pace]

The other point I want to raise is that are you infact better and more competant having some hours under your belt before going solo?

You take a competant student who has perfect zero wind blue sky weather and solos at say 7 hrs.

Take the same guy who is plagued with poor weather stronger winds and because of that solos at 15 hrs.

In those extra hours he has kept his hand in learning to deal with the stronger winds and other areas in the training.

From that point with his learned extra skills he should quickly progress through his solo work and on.

Ok I know of one elderly pilot who took a huge amount of hours to solo and some reckoned he never would. He enjoyed his weekly fly with an instructor and frankly wasnt that bothered whether he ever achieved a PPL.
In the end he did solo and went on to achieve his PPL. He never flew alone after the PPL{much to the relief of his instructors) teaming up with another OAP but they had loads of fun with their weekly joints to near off places ;) He was a complete aviation enthusiast.
That is what private flying should be about! enjoyment.

Sadly the above died from cancer but I flew his Citation for him an aircraft which was his dream to own ( A badly bought real bottom of the pile 500 which scared the sh~t out of me half the time! You didnt need a sim for failure practice with that bird) which was sold for peanuts on his death.

BTW I was paid peanuts to fly and operate his jet for him but had no end of fun in the process. isnt that what its about? I almost got a sim ride every other flight :E Good for the soul!

Pace

[CharlieDeltaUK]

...the ability to not crash when the AP drops out would be nice...

Excuse my ignorance - what's 'AP' in this context?

[Pace]

Excuse my ignorance - what's 'AP' in this context?

AP is affectionately known as " GEORGE" ;)

A good friend on long solo trips

Pace

[mur007]

As a low hours PPL, who works hard to be able to fund my limited flying activities, I find it quite saddening that a fellow (though much, much more experienced) aviator feels it necessary to ridicule the responses of those, including myself, who have only a few flying achievements that maybe they ought to be allowed to feel just a little bit proud of.

Going solo for the first time is certainly an achievement any pilot should be very proud of. However, the hours in your logbook when you do it will have very little to do with you and a lot more to do with a whole list of factors that are way outside of your control. In the UK, being lucky with weather is probably a the top of that list.

[AOB9]

As a PPL student (42 yr young) I agree that there are too many variables to accurately predict "time to first solo". I am in the circuit at current point in my training ( 10 hrs). I'm a part time student for "serious fun".

In fact, at this more cautious stage of my life I would prefer to be comfortable about going solo than rushing into it.

Many of my lessons have been cancelled due to weather often leaving weeks between lessons. In fact I reckon nothing will move out of our training centre tomorrow either. It's based in Cork (EICK), scene of todays tragic accident... RIP.

[Pace]

AOB9

Believe it or not in one year I flew 50 times to Cork in a Seneca five twin.
Even if the UK was CAVOK you could almost guarantee that Cork would be 200 feet overcast.
Low RVRs where common.
Lovely restaurant down by the Docks! Browns if I remember right :)
Often stayed up at the Airport Hotel and sometimes in the City.
We used to Park on the main apron but then got shoved down to the aero club. Tight taxiway and a couple of disarmed military jets parked up.
Great bunch of people at the aero club.
Give them my regards they must remember the Gold and white Seneca five that came in every week ;)
Tragic the crash there thiis week :sad:

Pace

[mad_jock]

For all our discussions on PPrune i personall y think me and pace would actually quite like flying with each other.

What ever tickets we might have we both have the same prioritys on whats makes our days at work easy. :) And I suspect we would both enjoy working with each other. And to be honest I would love to go for pint with him or her ;) because we are both pilots not operators.

[Pace]

And to be honest I would love to go for pint with him or her

Mad Jock

Love to take you up on the pint too but just to make it very clear I am definately a Him not a Her :uhoh:
I am into Hers (the female variety) but not cross dressing in Kilts :E Must have been a typo!!!? or the islands best whisky?

Pace

[flyingflea]

6 hours 40 mins, whilte waltham 1982 or 83 with Paul Bonhomme

[Lister Noble]

15 mins,control line 1955,powered by ED Bee;)

[jackdhc1]

Mine was about 9hrs, but there are different factors in it... Someone at my flying club went solo after 31 hours because he hadn't got round to getting a medical done. As everyone says though, hours are irrelevant, all that matters is that you get a licence at the end of it...
Jack

[Mrya]

Hey Folks...

Took me 30h26 to solo, but to my excuse it was a high performance, retractable gear&constant speed prop thingy...the venerable F-33A Bonanza

Commonly also called Banana, specially in the yellow livery!!

Hope that excuses the high number!! :p :E :E

Cheers,
:cool:

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Myra, is that legal where you are to train in a complex??? sure would be nice. bit of a learning curve i imagine, would make circuit training a bit daunting.

My solo was over cooked due to a delayed medical, when i finally did it, it was a slight anti-climax, however still remember every second of it! the congrats from the tower made me feel on top of the world!

[Mrya]

Hej Kiwi!

Sure it was, i was trained by Lufthansa and airlines oriented. Can hardly do that on a Tomahawk (or maybe you can...)
Downwind was 120kts, a bit harsh when you share airport with Warriors 90kts....good fun too!!

Enjoy and happy landings!! :cool:

Mrya

[FlyingKiwi_73]

soo jealous....... :{

[Mrya]

Hej Kiwi!

Wana be jealous??? I did training for Multi Engine on a Piper Cheyenne III PA42 (that is 2x650 shp for 4-5 tons)

Hehehe :E:E:E:E


Yep i know :ouch:

For your better feeling.... I am now FI on PA-38, earning 20€ per hours, with 15h at best per month... do your math!!

Enjoy! Cya around

[Milton1995]

how on earth do you cover 13 exercises which require a good amount of time in 4-6 hours?

[Helicopterdriverguy]

I went solo Today after 14 Hours in G-BBJX. A special thanks to Steve Hall for having the confidence in me to send me solo.

Regards

[riverrock83]

Congratulations!
I see that despite your name that is definitely a fix wing first solo. Best of luck with the rest of your training!

[AOB9]

Well done, great feeling

[Big Pistons Forever]

Looking over 24 + years of instructing the trend is clear. The time to solo increased but the total time to the PPL license decreased. This was because I put more and more effort on the ex 5 to 9 foundation skills right at the beginning. This paid of many times over in much faster progress on the more advanced topics.

I also now pay a lot more attention to the "What Ifs"

Just because it is you first solo doesn't mean that

- Your engine can't fail at any point in the circuit
- You can't have to smoke in the cockpit
- Your radio can't fail
- A cabin door can't spring open in flight
- You won't have divert to another airport if the one you are at becomes unusalable
- You can't be cut off by another aircraft not conforming to the correct circuit procedures or not following ATC instructions
- You can't be subjected to the potential of harmful wake vortices from an aircraft ahead of you.

So when you went solo and look at this list you would have been able to immediately know what to do if any of these situations came up.....Right ?

[Helicopterdriverguy]

Hi,

Yes i did get taught about the what ifs and practised in them. The training has been fantastic so far. Thanks for all the kind comments.

Regards

[Sky-Plod]

Flew my first solo circuit on Monday afternoon having clocked up 9 hours 50, at RAF Leuchars Flying club

[Steve6443]

Thought I'd give my tuppence worth - just to balance the scores, because this has become something of a willy waggling thread - you know the sort, I did my solo the night before I got to the airfield, in my sleep :)

I know at the club I am learning to fly - PPL(A) - there are those who solo after 10 hours (usually they already have glider / UL experience) or others who take more time - in one case it's because they leave too much time between lessons, meaning they "forget" what they have learnt, others are simply slower - like me :)

For info, I have always had a fear of flying and decided to learn to fly to combat this; my fear of flying is because of the fear that the pilot *ucks up - if you imagine driving a car on ice, one wrong move and the car is in the ditch. My rationale was in thinking that the pilot has to react in turbulent weather / storms - one wrong move and the plane crashes. But as we all know, the plane does most, if not all, of the work and yes, it has helped - I feel much more comfortable when flying scheduled airliners, no more panicking when the door closes!

But back to the topic - I soloed after 27 hours - so no, am not a "super hero", nor can I be considered a natural flyer. At the same time, during my first solo I had a Mike "jump" in front of me as I was downwind shortly before turning base meaning I faced circling to add some separation or trying some slow flying - I chose the latter and that gave me a huge boost in my confidence, knowing that I could keep a 172 in the air at 60 knots, holding a steady altitude in the circuit without an instructor telling me what to do; I hate to think what I would have done had I not had the extensive training I received. The second solo came as rather an anti-climax - climb out, accelerate to cruising speed, slow down, flaps down, land...... ;-)

Since then have just passed my ground exams and will be making my solo cross country runs shortly, have 2 hours circuit training solo and just over 36 hours in my book including all exercises which can be done with an instructor, I hope to be ready to take my final exam with 50 hours in my book.

Sorry for the rather lengthy posting but I wanted "Joe Average" to see that there are people out there who take longer to go solo but they shouldn't feel demotivated by this. And just because your time to solo takes longer, doesn't necessarily mean that your time to PPL will be excessively long.....;)

[xrayalpha]

I went solo in about 52 minutes......

(in a glider at summer CCF camp at HMS Condor many moons ago)

Interesting thing was, I only ever flew right hand circuits over the ski slope.

So, as I tell powered students today: I went solo in less than one hour, but I never knew how to do left hand turns! (of course, it was a tandem glider, so unlike in a side-by-side the view would be the same whatever direction the turn). And we try to be a little more thorough.

Of course the RAF - often hailed as "flying instruction par excellence" here - also had the commercial benefit of Crown Indemnity!

[xrayalpha]

ps. Just for fun I will add my other favourite:

Half my students are "below average".

[ronniehuang]

I'm 32 hours in and still not solo. I'm not really in a hurry and I'm still quite happy flying around with my very attractive instructor next to me. ;)

[150commuter]

Mine was at about 16 hours seven days into a residential course and I'd also had a couple of hours on a completely different aircraft at another club. Maybe at 40 I was a slower learner than some but one thing I remember the instructor saying afterwards was that he wouldn't send anyone solo until they'd made enough bad landings to learn from their mistakes.
I don't remember the hours to first solo seeming that important at the time and they were completely irrelevant once I'd got my licence. Fortunately unlike my earlier brief experience of gliding, the group I was training with were non-competitive, we wanted to encourage each other to fly.
It was much the same with the hours to PPL. Once I'd got it the hours it had taken to get it were just part of my flying experience.

Apparently quite a lot of people give up flying once they've done their first solo.

[carlmeek]

Here is my willy wave...(not)

Obsessive pilot on flight simulators of all kinds from a teenager.... Then radio controlled model planes and helis for 3 years right up to a big 4bhp 7 kilo one... Aero competitions.... Then im 19 years old and ready for the real thing...

12 hours 50 minutes at Shoreham in a C152. Ready to solo, Failed medical, gave up. Then 2 hours in a shadow Microlight... Gave up properly.

Ten years later, 22 hours in a Microlight....NPPL GP countersignature, and I'm solo. Then a frustrating 7 hours before going solo again... At which point i did 3 go-arounds in a row trying to land on a 450m strip (too high, too fast) needed some reassuring words over the radio. Then passed with 50 hours logged.

The more hours I fly the more aware of new dangers I become. If I had gone solo after 12 odd hours, I would have had no readiness for the slightest thing going wrong.

[adevilla]

Like Steve6443 I too learned to fly to overcome my fear of flying and I'm sure my reluctance to relax played a part in the time to solo. Took me nearly 34 hours aged 39 to solo and I can tell you I was glad of every single moment of those hours when I landed.
It still makes me grin from ear to ear when I think of it. :)

[WishesToFly]

I currently do an hour a month in a micro because of my low wage. Looking at solo flight very early next year. Please don't worry about how long it takes to get solo, because we all learn at different rates, times, income etc. It will take me longer to get my national pilots license because I learn to fly so infrequently, but I see my self as 'airborne' and not one of the dreamers looking back wishing I had learnt to fly. Just fly at your own pace and at the finances available, and make every minute of it. Go for it my friend and just do it 'your way'....

Good luck!

[captainsmiffy]

Taking a look at this thread as an ex-instructor in the 90s at Eastleigh in the UK and was reminded of the student - mitch - who took me to the brink with her flying and I battled every inch of the way to get her to fly solo. She must rate as one of the longest to solo here and, yet, that is not the point.

Mitch was a lovely lady in her 60s whos husband had passed away and she was determined to do something with the rest of her life and that 'something' was to learn to fly. The only problem, as I was later to find out, was that her deceased husband had spent decades of married life essentially 'cowing' mitch such that she had absolutely no confidence in herself whatsoever. She couldnt drive, hell, she couldnt even balance a cheque-book as she was given absolutely no responsibility in life other than to cook and to run the house. He had essentially 'bullied' her into submission and was led to believe that she would amount to nothing. (you have to understand this before the rest of the story makes sense). Now I was running an adult evening class at the local college, teaching PPL groundschool to earn some extra cash when in walks mitch and a friend, another pensioner, both professing to want to fly and both wanting to finish the exams first so as to be well-prepared for the flying.

Eventually Mitch came out to the airfield for her first trip. It quickly became evident that her husband had really smashed her confidence and from what I could see she had NO natural affinity with the machine or her environment. In short she was totally ham-fisted and seemed unable to grasp the simplest of notions in the air. However, she was determined to try - and good on her for for trying! I was, however, rather concerned that an elderly lady might be throwing her pension away on a whim when I felt that success in her new venture was going to be extremely remote, to say the least....I quietly took her to one side and pointed out, after a few hours of flying, that maybe aviation was not really her thing and that I didnt want to see her money pouring down the drain at something like £100 per flying hour! She bristled and told me, in the sweetest possible way, that the money was HER concern and that she DIDNT CARE!! her husband had ruined her life and, by god,she was going to follow her dream!! somewhat taken aback at her determination, I agreed that I would continue with her but that we were in it for the long-haul! It was going to take a long time, longer than anybody else in the club, but I would work with her 'until we got it right'. Throughout the coming months I was to repeat to her, over and over, that this was going to be an expensive and time-consuming business and that she really ought to consider perhaps another hobby......she smiled her smile and got on with the battle. And what a battle it was. At times I went through periods of dreading her walking in the door and I often felt ashamed that she was paying to fly when she really had so little talent at it. Then, all of a sudden, I started to see signs - very small signs - that what I was saying was slowly, so slowly, getting through to her. Suddenly it started to become a challenge. We started to progress through the syllabus, very slowly, but, nevertheless progressing. Mitch began to 'emerge from the fog' and was actually beginning to think in the air! We worked at it, my god did we work, together! She put so much effort in that I began to be rather impressed and, dare I say it, proud of her attempts to conform to my teachings.

Over a period of 16 months we worked and worked at it. Circuit after circuit, interspersed with refresher sessions outside of the circuit to keep her interest and her skills up. Confidence rose and she FOUGHT back! I began to think that she might actually get solo! You see, in that 'chat' that we had, she told me just how much this meant to her to learn to fly and that she knew that she was useless at just about everything but that she wanted to prove something to herself by learning something that her husband never had the nerve to do - to fly - and she fully expected never to be let solo. Trouble was, I began to think that Mitch was capable!

Eventually came the day, 16 months later, where the circuits were acceptable, the landings were reasonable and her confidence was good - and steady. Mitch was READY! 48 hours and 10 minutes and she was there! I told her that there was nothing more that I could do for her and that I was getting out and that she had something to prove to herself....I walked up to the tower and sat there whilst she made that first solo. Interestingly, the tower controller was chatting to me whilst this was going on and conversationally asked "what ever happened to that mad so unding french lady that you used to take up? God, we used to nearly hit the crash button on some of her approaches...!!" It was a lovely moment to finally say "mate, you're looking at her right now!"

The first solo, as did many more, passed uneventfully - apart, that is, from the party afterwards. I was SOOOO proud of her....

12000 hours later I have had a few highs in my aviation career, including flying the A380 but NOTHING has beaten the proud moment when Mitch went solo. NOTHING. So I guess what I am really saying here is that it is NOT how many hours you went solo in, it is the fact that you DID it and what sort of a fight you had, personally, to achieve it that counts.

[mad_jock]

Cracking post smiffy

[captainsmiffy]

Thank you; it was heart-felt.

[WishesToFly]

Great post there Smiffy! Very inspirational and just shows how you can achieve something if you really put your mind to it. Mitch has one up on me, she's done her solo....and what a remarkable women she is!

I will remember this story throughout my learning journey, whenever I feel the 'going getting tough'.

Thank you for your post.

[Discorde]

My initial progress was slow. Hampered by airsickness (esp during stalling) & inability to judge flare height on the Chippie.

Change of instructor: the new chap got me to line up but instead of opening the throttle the following exchange took place:

'Look ahead, note where the horizon intersects the cowling.'
'Okay.'
'Memorise that image. Now, look down a bit, note how high you are above the ground.'
'Okay.'
'Memorise that image.'
'Okay.'
'Right, now fly a standard circuit and don't let the aircraft touch down till the horizon's in the right place and the height is the same as now.'

It worked. I soloed a few circuits later.

[captainsmiffy]

Wishestofly....my pleasure and I wish you all the best with your quest to fly. Looking back, I can honestly say that those hours were amongst the most pleasurable of my career and, if I could make a decent living from it then I would be back there in a flash! And that is from a long haul 380 pilot. I loved instruction and, today, when I counted up all of the hours in my logbook that Mitch had done to first solo it was a real trip down memory lane and got me thinking....alas the bigger bucks lie in the desert with international flying. Maybe I could instruct again when I retire....I would really love that.

[Daverehm]

I am 52 and have 22 hours and am waiting to solo. This thread gives me a little peace of mind. I have been extremely frustrated that I'm not "getting it" quite as quick as most (10-15 hrs). Way too much pressure! I have considered giving up due to my hours. I'm flying twice tomorrow, weather/wind permitting. Who knows? Could be tomorrow. :)

[Steve6443]

Daverehm: My first piece of advise: don't listen to all of the willy-waving superheroes here - you know the ones I mean, those who are born sky-gods, those who go solo after just 20 minutes airtime? They will just depress you and, as you've already noted, make you put yourself under pressure.

First things first, it's not a race, you are learning to fly for your own satisfaction (I hope) so just understand you are learning at your pace, not someone else's.

Secondly, you won't even be able to take the skills test to get your PPL licence until you've done a minimum 45 hours, of which 10 MUST be solo so it really doesn't matter whether you solo at 10 hours or 35 hours; also, don't be despondent and think that "you aren't getting it" because you (or at least your instructor) will note that once you start going solo, your learning curve steepens quite sharply.

Thirdly, I seem to recall the average was 50 - 70 hours if people aren't doing full time courses because of a cycle of "learn - forget - relearn".

I soloed with 27 hours in the book so if you went solo tomorrow, your progress is better than mine was..... :-)

[rolling20]

Daverehm, I'd ask for an instructor change, although without knowing where you are 'not getting it', it's hard to comment.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I most certainly wasn't a sky-god, but I was young and managed to work in aviation full time from the age of 18 so for me it's all just been part of one very big and complex journey.

So, I possibly have the most unusual route to first solo you're likely to come across.

16 hours and 23 flights in a Bulldog with the UAS, not a talented student, chopped from UAS flying training.

Through the university, 3 x 30 minute observer trips in Cranfield's Jetstream learning about flight test.

Then I discovered a microlight club during a summer job, 2 1 hour trips in a Spectrum. Loved it, plus had a vastly more sympathetic instructor than my RAF QFI.

Few more observer trips - helicopters this time, and a couple of hours crouched in the back of a VC10 cockpit.

Then back at university, managed to grab one flight in a Thruster, still enjoying it, not enough money to keep going for now.

Finally graduated, had a little bit of money. Got to solo in a total 9 flights, 8:25, with a really good microlight instructor in the Spectrum again. I think that about half that time was learning, and about half was building up the confidence destroyed by my RAF instructor a few years before.

Then changed job. Moved somewhere else, had a longish break, but went solo again in a Shadow: 9 flights and 8 hours, but in between scrounged some motorglider and glider trips through work opportunities.

Then 10 hours mixed solo and dual later in the Shadow (the famous "George" which I'm sure a few other people have flown), got my restricted microlight PPL.

Then I decided to have a go at flexwings, and did my flexwing conversion and nav to remove the restrictions on my PPL together in about another 15 hours in a Quantum then an F2a. To actually go solo on a flexwing took about 12 hours - although at the same time I also did a stack of back and right hand seat work flying in everything from a BAC1-11 to a Hawker Hunter, and whether that helped or hindered my piloting journey, I honestly don't know. Most likely it slowed me a lot in the short run, and made me a far better pilot in the long run.

G

[Andy_P]

I did about 30 hours before my solo. Apparently that is about the average for people my age and I am just short of 40. If you are 20, you might solo sooner. If you enjoy flying, hang in there, it will come.

[Piper.Classique]

Rolling 20, while asking for an instructor change may be a good idea in some cases, I would hesitate to suggest this without a good deal more information. For a start, we don't know how many instructors the Daverehm has already had, what he or she is learning on, in what sort of environment, how often he flies, what the weather has been like, and all the other variables. 22 hours is not excessive for a middle aged person coming to a light aircraft with no aeronautical background. I would like to know what the specific difficulty is before making any further comment.

[Whirlybird]

It took me 48 hours to go solo - I was in my late 40s. I finally got my PPL(A) at just under 90 hours...rather a lot. Then I went for a helicopter trial lesson, loved it, and decided to get a PPL(H). 30 hours to solo, and under 60 (I think), to PPL....a little under "average". Then I got a CPL(H) and FI(H) and became an instructor, and I like to think I was a good one, partly because I knew about every problem possible and sympathised; I'd been there!

So don't worry about hours. However, I realise now, many years later, that I'd have done better if I'd switched instructor sooner when doing my PPL(A). The chap who first taught me was a rather unsatisfactory instructor, indeed, a rather unsatisfactory human being, sad to say. If you're not "getting it" ask yourself why. It may just be that you need more time, and there's no harm in that; we slow learners get there in the end. But a change of instructor may help; it may not, but going up with someone else to see how you get on can't do any harm.

[rolling20]

Piper.classic, like I said in my post it's hard to comment without knowing where he is 'not getting it'. I know of one case twenty years ago, where a chap had 35 hours and hadn't gone solo. Joined another club and soloed the same day. Turned out he had been a victim it was believed of instructor 'hours building'.

[thing]

Background in aviation, did 22 years on a variety of aircraft as an Avionics engineer. Learned to fly gliders about 25 years ago, got involved in the club scene, got my silver badge. Went across to the dark side three years ago at age 55 as a curent glider pilot and went solo on my seventh flight in 4.35. Did my skills test in minimum time.

Does that make me a better pilot than someone who takes 30 hours to go solo? Not in the slightest. I'd flown for donkeys years before I went onto powered, was used to being in the air, used to navigating, it was just a glider with a fan on it to me.

[Nikonair]

Started gliding when I was 14 and had my first solo after about 50 flights, I would say roughly 6-8 hours. But this was towards the end of the season. On the first day of the next season I witnessed my father crash in a glider, thank god he survived. It took me a long time, and determination, after that and the support of a lot of good instructors to feel at ease in the cockpit again. I remember the first solo after witnessing the crash better than I do my actual first solo.

But I stuck with flying, eventually got my Gliders license, and starting my 737 typerating next month.

[worldpilot]

Daverehm,

Are you really enjoying the flight training with your current instructor?

If you're not comfortable with the level of learning that you're experiencing with your current instructor, go for an alternative.

I also had a problem with my flight instructor during my flight training. After 12 hours of dual flying, I was ready to go solo, but my instructor resisted to let me go solo. Well, I decided to dump him and go for another instructor who immediately signed me off after one hour of flight with me. Bingo and off I went.

So, do a reality check and figure out what exactly is hampering your progress. If you can't identify the factors that are hindering you from attaining your goal, then you have a serious issue to address.

considering the fact you are paying the bills, the flight training must be reflecting on your needs and it is crucial you determine that the instructor is working with you to achieve your goal.

Good luck.

WP

[Genghis the Engineer]

Ability, in any case, is quite frankly overrated.

I probably am a fairly reasonable pilot these days, although I most certainly was not when I started learning. The reason I am now pretty good is twofold - one is that I really enjoy aviating, and it's pretty easy to put hours of practice and learning in if you enjoy it. The other reason, is that I put all those hours in.

I'd say the same of several other things in my life - none of the things I've got the greatest satisfaction from, did I ever show any real natural ability at when I started. But, without going into details, there are two other areas of activity where I'm reckoned to be pretty darned good - but both took a quarter of a century of enjoyment-driven effort to get there, as I was pretty bloody mediocre for the first few years.

So basically, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference in the long run whether you take 5 hours or 100 to solo. What makes all the difference is whether you enjoy it enough to spend the next few hundred, and perhaps few thousand hours learning and improving constantly - both in the air and on the ground.

G

[Pace]

G

i would see that slightly different in the fact that there are pilots who are better at it than others we will not all get to the same standard no matter how hard we try because our brains are built differently.
Being built differently there are areas where we will excel and areas where we fall short.
I know with myself my strengths are with the visual side of my brain and I envy those who are so organised.
The main point from a pilots perspective is knowing those limits and flying within them or sadly aviation is a very cruel mistress.
I knew a fairly elderly gentleman who loved being around aviation but knew he would never solo.
He was happy getting his fix twice a month with an instructor so what was wrong with that!
Another took a long time but achieved his PPL and was happy to go round the local area in good VFR but no more. He knew he would never be an instrument pilot battling all weathers on his own! What is wrong with that?
Others of us are a bit crazy :E and somehow survive
There are pilots who I admire who are far better in an all round way than I will ever be but its about knowing your strengths and weakness in aviation.
Yes strive to improve them and be satisfied with who you are and what aviation give to you.
But can you make a good safe car driver into a formula 1 ACE No but does it really matter ?

Pace

[maxred]

When I started I did it with a flying club. I was pretty driven, and wanted to excel at it. I got stuck at 15 hours, not having gone solo, a combination of very poor instructor, poor training club, weather, and my time. I got very frustrated.

Solution, went out and bought a Chipmunk, got an instructor to teach me, a very good one, linked myself to a CFI, and soloed in 8 hours, passed GFT, spot on 40 hours.

If I had stayed in the club scene, I doubt I would have achieved anywhere near where I am now. I have loved every minute of it, I have also scared myself ****less on occasions, but, think I have learnt from those horrors, and I went out and received more training, and then more training. You never stop learning, and as Pace stated realise your limitations, and then fly safe.

[Genghis the Engineer]

But I'll bet you could turn most safe drivers into somebody who can get an F1 car around a track fairly well, given enough time. And if you'd got that elderly gent 20 or 30 years earlier?

I didn't say that ability is irrelevant - it's not. But for the vast majority of people, it's very overrated compared to energy, time and enthusiasm.

G

[rolling20]

Genghis, my own experience mirrors yours UAS wise. Thirty years later I can laugh about it with my QFI. It wasn't funny at the time however and some of my contemporaries have never recovered from being chopped and want nothing to do with reunions etc. I soloed in under 7 hours once that experience was behind me and wished I hadn't been so intimidated as a teenager. C'est la guerre...

[Pace]

G

Probably car driver isn't a good example.
skiing maybe ;) Many people enjoy skiing. they trundle down the slopes some happy on gentle green runs, others on reds, others on blacks some off piste.
The majority get a great deal of pleasure skiing within their own limits and are safe. Some go out of those limits and end up as crumpled wrecks in hospital or worse.
They all will not have the aim of being Olympic down hill racing champions.
As an ex fairly successful club car racer back in my 20s involved in Formula Ford, Clubmans and Formula 3 i do not agree you would ever get the average car driver to get anywhere near competitive lap times in a formula 1 car :ok:

Main point is enjoy your flying whatever that is! strive to to better yourself but know your limits and stick to those and fly safe

Pace

[Genghis the Engineer]

No, nor for me. It left me feeling poleaxed at the time. However, I managed to stay friends with the organisation and a lot of the people. That did take some effort. I think that the organisation has changed somewhat since and is much more about broader RAF careers and relationships, rather than just create fighter pilots or get rid of them. I think we had about a 90% chop rate my year - not helped by being able to fly Monday to Friday only, and a very large proportion of us being engineering students.

G

[rolling20]

Ghenghis, You are right the organisation has changed. As the CFI said to me last September:'back then you were being taught to RAF flying training standards'. I met a current student, nice chap, been on the squadron two years, TT 30mins!

[Genghis the Engineer]

The difference being that most people being taught to RAF training standards aren't trying to pass a degree at the same time, with lectures on all the same days of the week that are available to go flying! I think that my UAS (Southampton) had the highest choprate in the UAS organisation - as we couldn't fly weekends, and about 2/3 of cadets were engineering undergrads. I think they eventually fixed it by moving from Daedalus to BDN, but that was after I'd graduated.

G

[Howard Long]

Daverehm

FWIW, I went solo at 22.5 hours aged 48. I too was getting frustrated, not with the instructor but with myself. I found the whole thing to be far more difficult than I anticipated. I guess I saw it as a failure on my part, especially seeing the young guns going off at 12 or 15 hours.

I finally passed my skill test at 75 hours, the whole process taking five months elapsed. On a positive note I did get the night qualification in 5 hours 5 minutes. But the IR(R) is really a struggle for me, I am already at 15 hours, and I'd not be surprised if I need another 10 or 15 to get to test standard.

The other thing I found was that unlike passing a driving test, once you've got your PPL, there's a whole lot more to learn about before being confident enough to do that £200 escargot and garlic trip to France.

I have just had to accept that the old grey matter ain't as malleable as it once was. That's life I'm afraid.

[Monocock]

The student's ability is only a small part in the 'time before going solo' number of hours. Just as influential are:


- Quality of instruction
- Frequency of training hours leading up to solo standard (ie last five hours in one week or 6 months?)
- Cautiousness of instructor
- Dare I say it, but yes, instructor's/club's desire to extract money from student


Some people still believe that pilot A is 'better' than pilot B because he soloed at 6 hours, compared to B's 15. That's just silly. Ok, there will always be the complete no-hoper, but from what I've been told, they're pretty rare.

[Piper.Classique]

I think that time to solo is not a significant indicator of eventual pilot ability. It has certainly increased since say 1950, not due to any real change in the aircraft but rather the training environment. Just look at the activity levels at for example, Wellesbourne compared with a large grass field with two or three aircraft clear of controlled airspace.

There are a number of exercises that the student must complete before a skills test, and should compete before solo. I don't think it is realistic to expect the student to be solo even in benign conditions unless they can safely and with some spare mental capacity fly all the manouvres needed for a circuit, be able to recognise and recover from a clean stall and the approach to a stall in the approach configuration (recovery at the stall warner with minimum height loss) cope with a simulated engine failure at any stage of the circuit and execute a go around on their own initiative in the case of a balked or bounced landing.

They should also be able to divert to a nearby airport if flying from a single runway airfield, be moderately competent on the radio unless flying in a non radio environment, and feel comfortable with the knowledge that they will be the captain, solely responsible for the safe conduct of the flight.

We have gone from a 35 hour to a 45 hour PPL and added layers of complexity to the task in the last 60 years. We expect a learner driver to pass a test before solo, not to drive around on their own less than half way through their training. What's the rush? We all have financial constraints, but the student pilot needs to learn to fly safely, not to enter a first to solo competition.

My personal opinion is that most pilots are in the circuit too soon. There's a high workload involved in flying a series of circuits that is not compatible with learning basic handling skills. There is no need to bash around learning straight and level in the local area, it can be done on short cross country flights, each one of which starts with a takeoff and finishes with a circuit and landing. This will inevitably involve all the activities required to solo, but in a less stressful situation. Then when the student is competent it is time to do some more concentrated flying before solo. Not two hours general handling then twenty hours going round in circles......

With the added benefit that they will know their semi local area and will be less likely to get lost close to home!

[A and C]

Piper Classique makes some very good points about the training environment and the required knowledge but his best observation is that students move into the circuit too soon.

Monocock has also identified some very important factors, his first and last bullet points being particularly astute.

Having got out of the standard flying club loop and moved to a non profit club I find that we don't have the problem with bad instructors ( because it is not a place to go to get hours for an airline job ) or being driven to push a student into parting with money add to this a circuit that is very tight by today's standards and you have all the pieces of the jigsaw needed for speedy student advancement.

I have said before on this forum I think time to solo has more to do with the number of landings a student performs, not the number of flying hours.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm not an experienced instructor compared to many - but it took me probably 30 hours of instructing to work out that it was vital to get people's skills right in the upper air first, then once you bring them back into the circuit it'll all come together very quickly.

So I really dont "get" why so many instructors, often with tens of times my instructing hours, feel it's essential to get inexperienced pilots with still-poor basic flying skills into the circuit so fast. In my opinion, they're at a skill level where this will only stress them and slow their learning process.

I get why so many inexperienced pilots think that they should - it's because they were fed that by their instructors. But why the instructors?

G

[Whirlybird]

But why the instructors? Sadly, in many cases, because they were fed that by their instructors, and they haven't thought about it since. And because they've developed a method of teaching, and just hate to deviate from it.

Learning to fly accurately before trying the circuit is IMHO even more important in the case of helicopters, where you have more to do and usually a smaller circuit. I certainly used to try to make sure students were reasonably good at upper air work before getting them in the circuit. I also tried doing this on short cross countries; it relieved boredom, and reminded them why they were doing it all..."There's a hill, what do you think you should do? Climb? Good answer. Go ahead then..." Yet I remember arguing just this point with an instructor who was far more experienced than I was at the time (and who was supervising me at the time), who more or less seemed to think that students could learn to fly in the circuit!!! I said I couldn't teach that way and we agreed to differ, but he was convinced that they learned faster his way. But did they learn better? Well, I talked to some pilots who'd been taught to fly by this guy, and more than one felt they'd been rushed too much when learning the basics.

[Piper.Classique]

So it looks as if we are all singing from the same hymnbook here. Why, then is this learning to fly in the circuit still going on? I instruct for a not for profit Club, I see A and C makes this point, but are the rest of the instructors here also at clubs rather than schools?

Monocock makes good points about frequency of training, too. Less than once a week doesn't usually work well, either. Neither does a too intensive course help, tiredness and confusion start rearing their ugly heads. Our students tend to do their PPL over two years, with most of the flying between April and November, and are mostly taking 55 hours or so, less for the younger ones. We will often test for a Brevet de Base the first year, which gives them some independance for local flying, and helps them stay current. Transfer of responsibility again.....

[mad_jock]

Why, then is this learning to fly in the circuit still going on?

I really don't know,

I find circuits boring as hell and a right pain and made it my mission to spend as little time doing them as possible.

Every single student I inherited who was having problems lacked the basic handling skills. In every case they had only spent less than an hour on S&L I/II and Effects of controls. Every single one of them was taken away from the circuit and those lessons revised. Then they usually got an hour of trimming and flying attitudes for different configurations which to be honest is equally boring for me but is more than worth it.

Then I got them flying the correct speeds.

And usually that was enough for another 1-2 hours doing circuits and then off solo. Which to be honest the majority of my own students used to do.

Its all in those first lessons which some seem to skip.

I know I shouldn't but with my day job line training I quite often have to do the same lessons on S&L and trimming for different configurations for new multicrew pilots. As they "get it" their work load drops off and then they improve leaps and bounds.

[Peter-RB]

50 years of age, 9 hrs 45 min first solo Robinson R 22,not stopped smiling since!

Peter RB
Lancashire

[Howard Long]

MJ

That rings very true of my experience when I did the PPL. I rarely, if ever, felt I'd actually mastered anything before rushing on to the next stage. This was particularly true of stall recoveries and even simple trimming. I found this most frustrating. Even after the skill test, I still found myself fannying around with the trim for a long time during each flight.

While I understood the concepts in the briefing, it was always hard when doing it practically in the air.

The problem with not being having the knack of trim and S&L is that you become fixated on it and your workload is significantly increased as a result. That has a knock-on effect on learning the other stuff as you're not concentrating on what you're meant to be learning. Although there is some benefit in pushing your personal limits with an instructor, if you can't comfortably do the basics reasonably well already you're wasting a lot of flying hours IMHO.

[FANS]

Too many are not relaxed in the air, and still fighting the plane with clenched fists.

Instruction is another.

Continuity and the British weather can play havoc.

[Crash one]

I remember spending too much time in the circuit pissing about with trimming & attitude, never enough time to get it right, then fighting the thing trying to land out of trim. The time taken along downwind is not long enough to learn to trim the thing, especially when they insist you fly at 90knots! Turn base, set 2stage flaps, trim for 65 etc.

I've had my a/c for 6yrs & if I don't fly for a month or more I've found the best thing is to take off, bugger about for 15mins chucking it about before landing/t&g. Trim for 60/55 in the downwind, half flaps etc. Otherwise the landing is utter crap. Once back in practice it can be flung at the ground sideways, final trim at threshold.

[Howard Long]

I read somewhere that if your divide your age by 2, that's the number of hours to ballpark for going solo.


Although I'm told the shoe size analogy is more accurate. At least I think it was shoe size.

[Steve6443]

Nah, reading some of the reports posted by some of the Willy Wavers here, I'm pretty much inclined to believe it's the size of your todger, in cm, which gives you hours to solo......

:p:p:p:p

[mad_jock]

Hows does that work with the girlies?

[Mach Jump]

Hows does that work with the girlies?

I shudder to think! :eek:


MJ:ok:

[Steve6443]

Hows does that work with the girlies?

You know how it is..... two pilots discussing their feats of derring do.... with some more or less interested piece of totty looking on, in awe of the sky-gods discussing their courage and heroism?

Either way, the one who can claim the lower hours to solo will usually pull the girl but she'll end up disappointed because my experience in life is that anybody who needs to overstate themselves, be it with acheivements (as in "I soloed after only 17 seconds instruction, blindfolded with an arm and a leg tied behind my back") or with their choice of motor vehicle (as in "look at my Porsche 911 GT3 Carrera RS - it has a racing cage in it to give the car rigidity to allow me to reach higher speeds on track days) is usually overcompensating for something else he's missing....

... Now where did I leave the keys to my Citroen 2CV...... :cool:

[mad_jock]

more or less interested piece of totty looking on, in awe of the sky-gods discussing their courage and heroism?

You know apart from on here I have never heard anyone discussing how long it took them to go solo.

By far the biggest topic I have heard is people trying to out do each other with is how stupid they have been and how much they shat themselves at the time.

Could be the Scottish version of I solo'd in 2 hours mind.

[thing]

Well the OP was 'average hours to first solo'. So I'm assuming someone is collating and getting an average amongst the replies.

I agree, I find the 'I shat myself' posts far more informative and amusing than average hours to first solo.

I nearly clobbered a buzzard climbing out from Gt Massingham yesterday, does that count?

[sharpend]

No one can beat my record. I went solo with no dual hours! I was only 13 years old. But of course there is tale to tell :)

[cowtreat]

I'm just about to go solo. I started my training on the parries in a k-21 and was feeling close to solo after 15 hours. The average flight was 25min. This year I switched to flying in the rocky mountains in a 2-33. It took some time to get used to the old ship and mountains. The big difference was each flight averaged about 1h45min.
This week if the weather is good I will solo after 40 hours. I was told it would just be a circuit. I said that I'm not sure if I want to solo if all I get to do is a circuit. So I was told they'd drop me by a common smaller mountain we use to get lift. I'm hoping I can do big soaring flights in my training. It costs $50 a flight no matter how long I stay up so I'd like my average flight to be at least 3 hours. Even if I can't go cross country, I can check out all the peaks in the vicinity of the airport.
I think it's a little longer in gliders because you don't pay much so there is more just flying for fun than serious working on technique. Then if you have flights averaging more than an hour but only one takeoff and landing you could have 40 hours of flight with just 20 landings.
I feel a bit like I'm bragging about how fantastic the soaring is at Invermere. Our 22 members that submit their flights to the olc have over double the points of the second highest club in Canada.

[Curlytips]

Thing. They do count and the so and sos don't dive like other birds. They know they own the skies, so we have to watch out. Had you had a good lunch at the Dabbling Duck?

[planesandthings]

I'm just about to go solo. I started my training on the parries in a k-21 and was feeling close to solo after 15 hours. The average flight was 25min. This year I switched to flying in the rocky mountains in a 2-33. It took some time to get used to the old ship and mountains. The big difference was each flight averaged about 1h45min.
This week if the weather is good I will solo after 40 hours. I was told it would just be a circuit. I said that I'm not sure if I want to solo if all I get to do is a circuit. So I was told they'd drop me by a common smaller mountain we use to get lift. I'm hoping I can do big soaring flights in my training. It costs $50 a flight no matter how long I stay up so I'd like my average flight to be at least 3 hours. Even if I can't go cross country, I can check out all the peaks in the vicinity of the airport.
I think it's a little longer in gliders because you don't pay much so there is more just flying for fun than serious working on technique. Then if you have flights averaging more than an hour but only one takeoff and landing you could have 40 hours of flight with just 20 landings.
I feel a bit like I'm bragging about how fantastic the soaring is at Invermere. Our 22 members that submit their flights to the olc have over double the points of the second highest club in Canada.

The first solo should the safest flight you do, hence it is mostly a circuit and soaring kept brief, it is a thrilling experience regardless that leads onto many successes.

Respect what your instructors say, you are still under the supervision of the instructor when flying solo, they know what is best for you. Overconfidence has never done any inexperienced pilot any good, or impressed anyone.

There is absolutely no need to rush the early solo process, Gliding is done for fun but the skills test for the licence will look at serious technique like any other qualification.

[Danny42C]

September 1941, U.S. Army Air Corps, Florida. Never been off the ground before, aged 19 - soloed in a Stearman after 8 hours dual over 17 days. About average for my Course.

They had a novel idea - our (rear) cockpits had no ASIs. We were taught to fly our first 60 hrs by Feel and Attitude alone (no sweat, what you've never had, you never miss).

Very useful to me in later years.

[funfly]

I went solo in a microlight in 7 hours but I have an interesting tale about my lovely wife who went solo in a PA Warrior after something over 70 hours.

The instructors were sensible enough to realise that she was nervous so they skipped the solo bit and took her right up to cross country level before getting her to go solo.

She learned to fly to please me and I was very proud of her. It seemed a sensible thing to do at the time in case I was ever incapacitated when flying with her when she would be able to take control.

Unfortunately she never enjoyed flying but it was reassuring to know that she could, also understand everything I was talking about etc.

[Piltdown Man]

About six hours but I was a Silver C converter so it doesn't really count. But on a full time CPL course down-under a worthy record holder was a certain AC from Malawi. His 99 hours to solo on his CPL course was certainly remarkable. He was not what you call a natural. Worse was a Mr. K from Singapore. We stopped ground school to watch him taxi. Cruel I know, but was amusing; as was the look of the instructors trying to help him. After ten hours or so it was apparent he was unteachable.

But the hours to solo are not that important. What matters is that you are enjoying the process.

PM

[blueandwhite]

Hows does that work with the girlies?


Well mine works quite well with the girlies, but I took 20 Hrs to solo. :ok:


I wish. :\

[Bravohotel]

5:35 Victa Airtourer 100 which included a 20min ferry flight & 20min circuit bashing at a nearby GA airport (you were not allowed to do a "First Solo" back at the base airport due to it being a Capital city single runway domestic/international airport)
I did know a guy who spent a fortune and after around 50 hours they told him he will never do it they should have worked that out around 20 the problem being he would do a perfect circuit then the next one he would try a kill the instructor in the end they got a Civil Aviation FTO to check him out same problem his SPL was cancelled, poor guy welll he was after paying for all those hours.

[cosy.ch]

It was 1992, 26th of january when I was 30 years old, and it was my third flight. I had 3 hours and 10 minutes from the very first and the second flight before.
The french instructor was a retired military pilot and instructor. The plane was a Morane Saulnier MS880 B (that did not changed during the first 8 hours).

I have to say that from my 17th to 25th year I was flying sailplanes in Switzerland, and then just the season before beginning my PPL Flightschool I was making my microlight license on a stupid basic equipped Quicksilver II (twostroke Rotax engine with hanging cylinders- it was not only weather that decided you to go or not to go).

So I knew all about trafic pattern, radio (in french), and surrounding air navigation from about 50 hours of microlight.

The first solo flight in this airplane was unforgetable and consists in simply doing a traffic pattern. I remember me , the instructor says: "just hold here (at the junction of the runway with the taxyway) and wait for me , the engine running - I've forgotten something. Once out of the cabin and the door locked, he took a walky talky on the edge of the runway and says to me over the radio: " now do exactly the same as before (we came down from 3 to 4 pattern works).
I made all checkpoints by loud speaking to myself and made that very first landing solo on a SEP. I felt a kind of extasy behind. And the champagner came on my bill after in the club...

At this time, in France the usual curriculum for Pilots forseen first a restricted license (BB- brevet de base) with restricted radius and restrictions on type and model, but gives you the ability to fly with passengers earlier then with a PPL. I've got the tests for this BB at 8 hours and 45 minutes - exactly one month after starting the flight school. For that, I made the theory courses and the tests just two days before the test flight for BB. To achieve the PPL final exam, the legislation exepts 45 hours of flight plus radio license plus navigation exercises, including 5 hours flights under IMC conditions (partially simulated by wearing special glasses during flight). I made my testflight at 40 hours and 10 minutes exactly 4 months day by day from the start of the instructions.

The very first 'adventure' was a flight from central France to Hungary , that was the same year 1992 when I made my instruction, with 47 hours in total and from that 38H28 in solo on PPL. I asked a friend, owner of the PPL since 5 years with a few 100 hours in total to come with me. We rented a PA28 from Dijon, crossed Switzerland- Germany-Austria to finaly land at Siofok Kiliti in Hungary. In total we made 25 hours together- I logged 12 hours from this budget.
This adventure graved in my mind was the best I could get from flying as a fresh baked pilot and I will never miss it. I became a better pilot with only 65 hours in total at the end of my first year as private pilot.

I mean it is not the number of hours before first solo, but the way you do your training and later how you build up your experience as pilot in command.

Look out for a good friend having PPL and beeing experinenced, and fly with him. Do cross country flights, make all the prep works for all flights you do thogether including gather weather forecast and decicion making. You will learn faster, sustainable and will become a better pilot- I guarantee.

Sincerely Yours

Cosy

[JEM60]

4hours 20 mins for me, C.150 G-AXJD. 17 years after being a Staff Cadet on 613 GS at Halton.
However, I ate, slept and breathed flying ever since that time. Wycombe Air Centre, Kevin Dearman was my instructor. [Brilliant man!!].
It came completely out of the blue, and I felt I wasn't really ready, but he said O.K? and I said O.K. and off I went!. Completed in 35 hours, stopped at 200 hours. [young family]. Regards to Dickie Bird if he reads this.

[geneticmaterial]

My 2 pence worth.
Went solo today at 14.6 HOURS. 32yoa..
4th circuit lesson.
Knackered the 1st landing as just too fast so decided to go around and got it next time round.
EGCJ and G-SACW

[antiseptic]

Quit after 17 hours dual after my instructor wrote "This man is dangerous!" on my last lesson notes. He said I'd never be safe to fly solo.

Fourteen months later I tried again at a different flight school, did 3 hours dual then my first solo at 20 hours TT.

Years later I have FAA CPL/IR, multi-engine, aerobatic and taildragger experience, Tanzanian CPL, CAA ATPL exams pass and commercial African bush-flying experience.

Just goes to show a bad instructor can break you, and a good one can make you.

[thing]

Had you had a good lunch at the Dabbling Duck? Yes, always a fine culinary experience there.

Does this count as the longest ever time for answering a post? :)

[Curlytips]

Thing. If I wait until January I'll exceed your reply time, but no doubt will have forgotten all about it since then, so will concede.......

[thing]

Been down the pub, it was a lock in.:)

[rellim113]

It took me about 14 hours, flying about once a week or so. We did a lot of "other stuff" before that like ground reference maneuvers, steep turns, stalls etc., not just pattern work.

It probably would have been sooner than that had 9/11 not happened. We were planning on it being that Saturday (just after my 17th birthday). Instead, since our airport was within an "enhanced Class B" area, I was delayed a few weeks and had to brush some rust off first.

So I really dont "get" why so many instructors, often with tens of times my instructing hours, feel it's essential to get inexperienced pilots with still-poor basic flying skills into the circuit so fast. In my opinion, they're at a skill level where this will only stress them and slow their learning process.

I get why so many inexperienced pilots think that they should - it's because they were fed that by their instructors. But why the instructors?
I've read that it was the "generally accepted theory" that first solo was a confidence-builder, and doing it early was crucial in getting pilots to "stick with it" and finish the license. As you say, I think that was a self-induced problem.

[Sam Rutherford]

After 3.5 hours total time, but in a glider which is arguably easier than powered. Aged 16!

Brave instructor...

[Penny Washers]

Yes - there's no doubt about it. A first solo in a glider is the best and quickest way to get going.

I managed to be towed straight into lift on my first. What to do? I decided to carry straight on until out of it, but it made for a funny shaped circuit. And on my second, they towed me up into snow!

On my first powered solo (7 hours, if someone is taking averages) ATC said "continue" when I was on approach. Did that mean continue on approach, or continue round the circuit again? It was not in my radio vocab, so I went round again.

It's all a very long time ago, but the first solo always sticks in your memory.

[JumboJet1999]

Just soloed this afternoon after 22.7hrs TT :ok: