Logging IFR/Instrument time?

[Johnno1981]

Hi all,

I have a JAR licence and I fly in the UK. I am unsure how to distinguish in my log book between IFR time and Instrument time as my log book only contains a column for IFR. So far I have only logged actual sole reference to instrument time in this column. However, I may soon start flying under IFR but not necessarily with sole reference to instruments.

What do other people do to distinguish between the two in their log book?

Cheers,

Johnno

[PAPI-74]

Pooleys Log book?

I never bother with the IF column.
The Operational Condition Time with Night and IFR column is all I fill in. If the flight is a planned IFR flight, log the lot. The CAA have never sent a comment on my log book to say otherwise. And the example states the same.
NAV can be used to tot-up for your CPL issue but after that I havent used it - unless you are going for single pilot work I suppose.
I suppose the IF column could be used if you are VFR and practicing IF with a safety pilot in the other seat, or if you go ino cloud on a normal (VFR) flight - but in that case I would just keep it simple and stick it in the IFR column, just logging the time under the hood / in cloud.

If you are VMC on top - it is still IFR so log the lot. You are still having to navigate using instuments although you are not using them for sole ref. Even if you are VMC at 10 miles on the LOC - you are still IFR unless you call for a visual appraoch.

[dont overfil]

PAPI-74

If you are asked how many hours experience you have with sole reference to instruments, how do you answer that?
DO.

[IO540]

What paperwork collecting scenario, UK or USA, requires IFR time?

Instrument time, yes. But not IFR time.

But under JAA only dual instrument time (i.e. with an instructor) means anything. In Europe, it is assumed the pilot is a crook.

Under FAA, you need some instrument time towards the FAA IR and some of this can be solo time. I log time spent in actual IMC.

[Keygrip]

Johnno - what does it say in the instructions page at the front of the logbook?

RTFM.

[Johnno1981]

Keygrip - thank you for your insight. Unfortunately it didn't come with a FM! At the start of the log book it says to log IFR time in the IFR column, No S***t! What I need to know is whether I need to make it clear in my log book what flights are sole ref to intruments. My log book only has the column for IFR.

Some examples of where I believe I would need to differentiate between IFR and Instrument time:

1. Removing the No applied instrument from a FI rating. You need to have I believe about 200 hours IFR. However, if you have sole ref. to instument time, each hour counts for four IFR hours.

2. To validate an Atpl you need 75 instrument hours. No reference to IFR hours.

[Nashers]

IFR time is when you plan a flight under IFR rules. the wx does not have anything to do with it.

IF time is when you plan a flight under VFR rules but end up flying part of it IMC (ie- in a cloud). you could also log IF time if your under a hood, have foggels on or have screens up.

[Fright Level]

I've got an old Airtour commercial pilots logbook and in the notes it says:

The column headed "Instrument Flight" is provided in order that the time may be recorded during which the holder manipulated the flying controls, solely by reference to instruments, either under actual conditions or properly simulated flight conditions in the column headed "Simulated Instrument Flying". The time spent in practices on a ground installation, such as a Link Trainer or Flight Simulator should NOT be recorded under "Instrument Flying", but should be entered in the appropriate pages at the end of the logbook.

[mm_flynn]

IF time is when you plan a flight under VFR rules but end up flying part of it IMC (ie- in a cloud). Surely you don't log such time unless you send a letter to your local NAA saying 'violate me please'. ;)

Flying in IMC can't be done under VFR. (Obviously you can change to IFR 'on the fly' so even though you originally planned as VFR you replan and fly as IFR.)

[englishal]

Well the only Instrument Time that actually means anything is when flying by sole reference to the instruments (in other words in IMC). The rest is just poppycock. I only log "Actual" instrument time or "Simulated" instrument time, and not IFR time. If anyone asks I'll take Actual + Simulated and x 10.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

What I need to know is whether I need to make it clear in my log book what flights are sole ref to intruments. My log book only has the column for IFR.
You can write what you like in your log book, it's your log book, provided that you log the minimum required by law.

Of course if you're saving up hours for the grant of some licence or rating you need to record whatever is needed for that licence or rating - there are so many of these that you can't expect your log book to have a column for each possibility or to give a definition of each in the notes in the front.

I'm currently doing an IMCR course, so am using the column headed "instrument flight" for IFR and the column headed "instructional hours" for sole-reference-to-instruments - it's not difficult to cross out a column heading and write in something else.

I don't have a column headed "floatplane flying" either but I manged to record it to my satisfaction!

[Johnno1981]

Good point Gertrude I think I'll do that. I too have float time although unfortunately so little of it that its not difficult to find in the log book.
Cheers

[vancouv]

Flying in IMC can't be done under VFR. (Obviously you can change to IFR 'on the fly' so even though you originally planned as VFR you replan and fly as IFR.)

Is that right? I've been flying VFR with an instructor doing some instrument practice under the hood, and we descended through some cloud - a small amount, not solid IMC, but cloud all the same. Surely that is flying in IMC under VFR and is perfectly legal?

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Whilst you were in cloud you were flying IFR.

[triton140]

Not exactly relevant to the OP's question, which related to the UK.

But in the land of Oz, you can only log time in IMC as instrument time:

All flight time during which the aircraft was controlled solely by reference to instruments may be recorded in the instrument 'Flight' column:

a) Time above overcast or at night in Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) is not counted as instrument flight;

..........

c) A flight conducted on an Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) flight plan is not to be counted as instrument flight unless flying in IMC;

Flight crew exams and licences - Pilot Log Books (http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/flight_time.htm)