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View Full Version : Night VFR and filing flight plans in the UK/Europe - worked examples


rmdr2
20th Nov 2008, 10:23
Fellow pilots

I was expecting my last post (Night VFR and filing flight plans in the UK/Europe) to maybe get one or two responses. It seems to have kicked off a large debate. There also seems to be some conflicting views on what’s allowed and what’s not…

I know that GA, non-IR pilots are buzzing about the skies at night without the guys in black suits and dark sunglasses (even at night) waiting for them at their destination.

In order to get clarification on how they do it, I thought I would ask the question in a slightly different way… worked examples!!!

All the below questions assume that the mentioned airfields permit night operations. I am only using actual names of airfields to make the distinction between towered and non-towered operations.

I assume there are GA pilots who have actually undertaken these flights at night without getting into trouble. If you've done it, please tell me how!

So here goes…

For each route, I have six questions

1) Do I need to file an IFR flight plan? If so, what exact wording do I need to put on the flight plan to indicate that it is, in fact, a night VFR flight and that I need to remain in sight of the surface? Do I need to formally request an SVFR departure/arrival clearance on the flight plan?
2) Are there any special ATC procedures for departing a non-towered airfield at night?
3) Do I need to request/should I expect an SVFR clearance into/out of a towered airfield at night? Or will it be handled in the same way as a day VFR flight?
4) Do I need to maintain MSA on the approach to/departure from the airfield as published on the instrument approach plates, or can I fly in sight of the surface below the MSA?
5) Should I expect to be under positive ATC control once departed and en-route?
6) Any other important points?

Route 1) Domestic flight from White Waltham (non-towered) to Biggin Hill (towered)

Route 2) Domestic flight from Biggin Hill (towered) to Lydd (towered)

Route 3) Channel crossing to Channel Islands, from Biggin Hill (towered) to Jersey (towered)

Route 4) International fligth to France, from Biggin Hill (towered) to Le Touquet (towered)

Many thanks again, chaps!

Fright Level
20th Nov 2008, 10:57
I think you're getting bogged down in the US rules about "towered" and non towered airfields. In the UK it only depends on what type of airspace the airfield is sitting in and any local rules it may have.

White Waltham - Biggin Hill

1 - No plan needed. No SVFR needed.
2 - See first comment above. Many airports are not H24.
3 - Again, see above, the tower isn't the issue.
4 - Only a fool would fly below the MSA at night. If uncertain about local area then work out MSA from VFR chart and do an overhead join and published circuit, descend below 1000' only when runway/lights in sight.
5 - No such thing in the UK except Radar Advisory. Farnborough will handle you on this sector but the alley past Epsom is very busy and you may only get a radar information service.

Biggin Hill - Lydd

As above

Biggin Hill - Jersey

1 - Plan needed day & night. SVFR into Jersey Zone.
2 - n/a.
3 - Again, see above, the tower isn't the issue.
4 - As above but JSY will vector you, not below radar safe altitude onto final approach course.
5 - No such thing in the UK except Radar Advisory. Thames may handle you at the start but there will be an large part without radar until you enter the Jersey Zone.

Biggin Hill - Le Touquet

1 - Plan needed day & night as crossing national FIR. SVFR into LFAT.
2 - n/a.
3 - Again, see above, the tower isn't the issue. LFAT is Class D, so SVFR at night required.
4 - As above. You can follow LFAT instrument approach procedure as long as you remain VMC (ie the limits of your non IR licence)
5 - No such thing in the UK except Radar Advisory. Thames may handle you at the start but there will be an large part without radar.

I don't agree with putting comments into S18 on the flight plan, the generated flight strip, which is what the controller sees, won't contain those comments.

The best thing will be to look up the definitions of VFR/IFR & VMC/IMC and the limitations on your particular licence. Try to untangle the Rules and Conditions parts in your mind.

Anyone can fly IFR outside of controlled airspace (which is essentially what you are proposing) and the basic rules that apply are being above the MSA and altitude for given track when above 3,000 feet and at a corresponding FL above transition level.

Almost all of your flights above will be outside of controlled airspace with special rules applying to arr/dep at White Waltham as it's in the LHR CTR, Jersey as it's Class A and Le Touquet as it's Class D. It's the class of airspace that matters, not the tower! (Did I already say that?) In the UK an airport may have a tower but then there are different levels of service from that tower from a basic "radio" to an approach, tower & ground controller.

mm_flynn
20th Nov 2008, 11:51
A couple of adjustments

White Waltham - Biggin Hill
....
4 - Only a fool would fly below the MSA at night. If uncertain about local area then work out MSA from VFR chart and do an overhead join and published circuit, descend below 1000' only when runway/lights in sight.

This would be a bit tough from the west with the MSA at 2300 and the TMA at 2500 - everyone in that area sandwiched into 200 feet.
This is not necessarily real IFR and is no different than night over the suburbs of any big city in the western world. Use good judgement based on the lighting and the met.


1 - Plan needed day & night as crossing national FIR. SVFR into LFAT.

3 - Again, see above, the tower isn't the issue. LFAT is Class D, so SVFR at night required.


LFAT is in France and in France to fly IFR you must have a full IR rating and be on an IFR flight plan. However, you don't need to be IFR at night (but do have higher VMC minima). You therefore must file a Z or Y flight plan so the French part is VFR.



Anyone can fly IFR outside of controlled airspace (which is essentially what you are proposing) and the basic rules that apply are being above the MSA and altitude for given track when above 3,000 feet and at a corresponding FL above transition level.

As I was reminded on a different thread, this is not true a JAA PPL can fly IFR outside CAS at night in the UK (subject to having a night rating) but does not enjoy the 'anyone can fly IFR' privilege that a CAA PPL enjoys.

Fright Level
20th Nov 2008, 12:26
This would be a bit tough from the west with the MSA at 2300 and the TMA at 2500 - everyone in that area sandwiched into 200 feet

The TMA is 3500' up to point W and the max alt for entering WW ATZ three and a half miles away is 1500'. The minimum radar vectoring altitude in that area is 1500/1700 feet from memory so you are still safe below 2300 on the way into/out of WW.

Of course if LHR offered you a SVFR out of WW dct ASCOT dct Fairoaks to exit the zone enroute Biggin not above 1000' then what would you do? (At night).

Fright Level
20th Nov 2008, 12:30
does not enjoy the 'anyone can fly IFR'

I don't understand this. Outside of controlled airspace, surely anyone can fly at any height they like, but let's make it at least 1000' above obstacles within 5 miles of our track. Anyone can fly any altitude they like outside of CAS, so let's make it 5,000' on our track of 045 degrees. Anyone can file a flight plan, so surely I'm now flying in accordance with Instrument Flight Rules?

mm_flynn
20th Nov 2008, 13:39
Because (OCAS with 3km viz and the surface in sight) to a great extent, IFR is a subset of VFR you can of course fly in a way that would comply with IFR - however, you are not allowed on a JAA PPL to actually be IFR (so no IFR on the flight plan - except at night in the UK). In general this is a semantic point, however, CAA PPLs do not need to comply with the VMC cloud clearance rules when in class G so long as they are below the TA or on the correct quadrantal above the TA. JAA PPLs on the other hand must maintain VMC at all times (i.e. proper cloud clearance). (Bizarre yes, but apparently true)

With regard to SVFR Fairoaks-Ascot 1000 feet always feels a bit low but I do it in the day and the place is lit up like Christmas and I would do at at night (subject to reasonable viz).


PS

Apologies to rmdr2 for hijacking his question - again ....

Fright Level
20th Nov 2008, 13:48
SVFR Fairoaks-Ascot

I've done it dozens of times by day and in some pretty murky conditions but can't remember ever doing it at night. Although it felt low, I guess 90% of the obstacles are at least 500 feet beneath you ;-)

OA32
21st Nov 2008, 12:30
As above but JSY will vector you, not below radar safe altitude onto final approach course.

Be advised when SVFR you are still responsible for your own terrain separation. Jersey would not give you vectors unless requested or required for sequencing/ separation from other a/c