Starting A Flying Shop

[tuscan]

Would you go to a shop rather than buy on the net if you had one close by?
I have a shop in Edinburgh sitting doing nothing and I was wondering if starting a flying shop wouldn`t be a bad idea. I am always checking out stuff online but if I had a store nearby I`d definately go there for my purchases even if it was slightly more costly than online.


I thought that I`d try PPRUNE as a survey to get your views and then, who knows? I may look into it.:ok:

[Mariner9]

There already is a pilot shop in Edinburgh :=

And very good it is too :D

Advertising rules on here probably prohibit me from naming them, but I'm sure Google would assist ;)

[Fright Level]

Whenever I go into Transair at Fairoaks, I'm almost always the only person (apart from the cashier) in there! There may be a clue in these headlines ..

Online shopping to soar as high street slumps (http://www.startups.co.uk/6678842909453162871/retailers-suffer-as-high-street-sales-plummet.html)

UK shoppers spend £145m a day online .. as shoppers increasingly turned away from the high street (http://news.scotsman.com/consumerspending/-UK-shoppers-spend-145m.4301672.jp)

Retailers suffer as high street sales plummet (http://www.startups.co.uk/6678842909453162871/retailers-suffer-as-high-street-sales-plummet.html)


I think I'd rather set up an internet business (most of your customer base is web savvy unlike some other sectors) but I would concentrate on breaking the price fixing scandal that seems to be practised by suppliers of Icom/Garmin etc as many people often select a supplier based on price alone.

[tuscan]

I will check google, I thought the said shop dealt with avionics and gps etc.
I was thinking more of the basic stuff, consumables, flight cases books etc.

[dublinpilot]

To be honest I'd probably go and check stuff out, then order it online if it was cheaper.

Is there really enough business for a bricks and morter pilot shop away from an airfiled? Probably in certain locations, where there isn't another one for a long way away.

I can't imagine it being a huge money spinner myself.

dp

[Fright Level]

Transair openly modelled itself on Sportys (and indeed their catalogue still contains blatant cut & paste Americanisms) but somewhere like the UK/Euro equivalent of Aircraft Spruce (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/) might be useful.

[Chippik]

what might be an idea is to diversify - sell other things apart from flying kit eg sailing or something a bit different. Just an idea

[Ultranomad]

I would definitely prefer seeing the stuff I am buying, especially if it is something like a headset. However, you need to maintain sufficient customer traffic to keep the shop commercially viable. It may be either a good way of selling the stuff everyone else has (e.g. for headsets, a noise booth for testing + many different models and brands kept in stock), or you may also create your own line of goods, e.g. good comfortable clothing for pilots. A friend of mine, an old test pilot, is married to a clothing designer, and we did once speak about creating a new brand, but the idea died for lack of a sales network. Want to revive it? :)

[Scottishflyer182]

Tuscan,

Why not just go on line and compete with the others. Then you would be on a level playing field.

However Garmin and most if not all of the other suppliers will only supply you if you fix your prices in line with there other customers.

I think its called a cartel, but eh..........there illegal :bored::bored:l

Good luck

SF

[Fitter2]

I can guarantee there is no collusion to keep prices high, at least as far as one supplier is concerned.

There is a constant survey by any web seller of competitors' prices, and a decision whether to lower prices to match, or lose market share rather than sell at a loss, and hope competitors go broke.

However, there is a well known way to make a small fortune in aviation.

And the beginning of what is likely to be a deep recession is obviously the right time.

Good luck.

[dont overfil]

There are shops at Cumbernauld and Fife airports.
DO.

[IO540]

The problem with GA is that it is almost totally devoid of modernisation, which makes running a shop difficult because everybody in the business is flogging more or less the same old junk.

I started flying in 2000 and the contents of the average shop (e.g. Transair) is almost the same today as it was then. They seem to live mostly on PPL and ATPL training supplies; the one thing which is sure to be in constant demand because it goes officially obsolete every year. The only significant thing which has changed is a few new GPS units but they are so relatively pricey that people shop around online. Garmin in particular seem to be pretty strict about retail price maintenance; it is illegal (in the EU) to do this overtly but there are "ways" to make sure it happens.

So, most pilots have a pretty good idea of what they need and I suspect most buy it online. I certainly tend to.

I'd go for an online shop every time, but selling some innovative products imported from the USA e.g. the transceivers which are supposedly not CAA approved. I think one could put together a sufficiently different product range.

Anyway, any physical shop must have an online presence these days. The question then becomes... if you are running an online warehouse, can it run from the back of the shop, with the shop front serving customers who want to visit physically? It must depend on how much of a premium you are paying for the rent+rates, versus a warehouse somewhere.

Harry M seems to be doing well but he is a Garmin dealer too I think, and sells a range of certified avionics too, with fat margins, and these go to installers only.

I've started two businesses in two recessions and it is the right time to do it. You get good deals from the suppliers and the landlord.

[tuscan]

IO,

I own the shop outright and its just sitting empty so no worries there.

CHIP,

Good idea, theres a lot of sailing interest knocking about Edinburgh.

I know of the said club shops and they are not much more than a glass display with a few items of interest.

I could sustain shop front for public and have an online set-up in the back rooms with storage for stock items.

Most of you are right, buying is done online.

Its just an idea. I already have a business doing none flying related work but Ive always fancied a shop ever since visiting one on the GA Apron in Calgary. I just loved browsing and ended up buying loads of books I couldn`t get in UK.

I guess that getting the suppliers to back you would be the hard part.

Thanks for the comments so far, I am digesting them.

[airborne_artist]

I'd broaden the scope - cater for petrolheads of all descriptions, and stock books from the US etc that are not easily bought over the counter in the UK.

[172driver]

IF you do decide to take the plunge (brave man!) then may I suggest a headset testing area? This is sorely lacking, today you basically shell out a lot of money for something you've never tried before and which is hugely important for your flying and your health.

[Chippik]

what might be interesting is if you sold older items as well (bear with me) vintage books eg flight briefing for pilots and signed biographies etc. as well as some rarer items to bring a bit more interest ltd edition prints/signed, rare watches I can go on - thats just my idea anyways
Think of the Tiso outdoor experience in Glasgow just as the previous post says a testing booth for headsets, you could have a booth to test jackets for both aviation and marine (if you thought about that route).
my ideas may seem crazy but maybe there is something in there that can be of some use.

[tuscan]

the problem with old books is that Edinburgh is filled with old book shops although US, Canadian and other new books that are not easy to get here might be an idea.

[dublinpilot]

A headset testing booth would be very useful, but given the prices of headsets, I suspect a lot of people would go in to test the headset, and then "need to think about it", and go away and buy online.

A great service, but not very profitable!

[cockney steve]

Retailer's overheads, IMO, mitigate against a tiny niche market such as this.

boats and cars do seem a natural fit,but remember the yachtie scene is now fashion-driven, highly fragmented manufacturer-sources and huge ranges....A copy of Practical Boat Owner / Yachts and Yachting / Yachting World will show the enormous stockholding and advertising needed to be a player.

You'd maybe better considering an ultra-specialised market (balloonist's requirements? )

On-line is a given for almost any major purchase,As some mentioned, physical stores become a showroom for punters to see and feel before buying cheaper online.

Retail only seems to work for the very highly specialised and at the other extreme "loose change" impulse-buys.

As an aside , I once investigated shoes and brasierres (old -fashioned, I know)
but although both are necessities (women need at least 3 bras and they have limited -life and a decent ticket-price AKA unit sale )
both types of merchandise suffer the same problem....a huge variety of sizes in each style, PLUS colour variations....the stock-holding is GINORMOUS.

Not saying you can't make a profit, but it would be a very steep learning-curve and need a lot of luck.....apart from that, the competition is already established and has already made the mistakes.

let the shop, draw the rent.....unless you are a gambler and need a challenge.

[BackPacker]

There is a HUGE "pilot" shop near where I live. Called the "Luchtvaart Hobby Shop" - you'd be able to find it online. The "pilot" shop is something like two shelves where they sell VFR charts, headsets, flight computers, flight bags, fuel testers and a few other bits and pieces a pilot needs. It's about half the size of the section with the model aircraft, and a third of the size of the assemble-yourself-aircraft section. They've also got a huge section dedicated to flight sims, including a demo area, roughly circular, 6m across, boasting no less than four sim setups, ranging from simple Cessna 172 with one screen to a 737 setup with three beamers and a full-size cockpit. Various other sections have books on every imaginable subject, 90% on aviation history, types and models, and only 10% directly intended for pilots or wannabees (like a 737 FMS manual). Throw in the department with goodies like lapel pins, coasters, badges, five-bar epaulettes, "remove before flight" keyring tags, mugs, wall clocks and such and you'll understand that it is very hard for an aviation enthousiast (aka a spotter) to walk out of there empty-handed.

But as far as pilot stuff is concerned, the stuff I need in the cockpit, well, I buy my VFR charts there because they're reasonably close to where I live. All my other stuff was bought elsewhere: either online or at a pilot shop which is actually located at the airfield.

[tangovictor]

i used to quite enjoy a look around the shop at Oxford ( Kidlington ) friendly staff, etc, the trouble now, is the OTT gate security, wanting to know your grandparents date / place of birth, inside leg mesurements etc etc, I feel really sorry for the guys in the friendly shop, imprisoned within stalag oxford.

[tuscan]

Not many security issues around Edinburgh but plenty of traffic wardens. Some would say they are of similar chemistry.

[IO540]

Perhaps the key factor is that there is very little a pilot needs in the cockpit - aside from some high value goods and those he will probably buy online.

The only in-cockpit stuff that keeps moving is charts and 99% of UK PPLs will only buy the one CAA chart for £14.

So the merchandise that keeps moving is mainly not in-cockpit stuff.

[yawningdog]

I wouldn't do it if I were you. I cannot believe that the market is big enough to justify a shop; and whatever market there is, it'll definitely be shrinking very quickly at the moment.

It'll surely be cheaper to have an empty shop except for the problem of rates. If you can't get anyone to rent it out, let them have it for free as long as they pay the overheads.

Hold onto your cash while everyone else is losing theirs.

[tuscan]

I imagine there would be very little profit in charts but it might bring people in to look at what else would be on offer.
Ive always just bought my charts from whichever club Im flying from the day I notice its not current.
I know of some who are still using charts that are several issues out of date,tut tut:=.

I think the idea of providing what others are not, items which someone kindly suggested to me by PM would be a good idea combined with the usual books and stuff. Also the combination of the normal online and specialised shop front appeals to me.

Thanks for all the comments so far, I guess that some market research is in order followed by contact to suppliers to discuss options.

Its just an idea so I wouldn`t hold your breath for a shop opening soon if you live in the Edinburgh area but like IO540 pointed out, a rescession IS a good time to start, both Joe public and the suppliers are looking for opportunities to save or make money.

Yawning,

the rates are not an issue and as of April there will not be any. I am not bothered about renting it out. I want to use it for myself but at the moment cant deside what.