Blind Pilot?

[mustpost]

Is this old? (well it wasn't obviously!)
Pilot goes blind in mid-air but RAF talk him down safely - The Daily Record (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/11/07/pilot-goes-blind-in-mid-air-but-raf-talk-him-down-safely-86908-20875670/)

[west lakes]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-20874959/ (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/11/07/pilot-loses-sight-while-flying-but-raf-crew-talk-him-down-115875-20874959/)

The article in the paper describes both the Cessna & the Tucano as jets!!

[tuscan]

Thats the media for you.... My wife was watching a TV show about Jordan and Peter Andre (celebs apparantly) and they were off to S. Africa and flying around in their private jet. She called me through to see this "jet" and it was a Turboprop so technically a jet I guess, but the other aircraft looked suspiciously like a wheezy old cessna 172.
Needless to say I went back to what I was doing:bored::bored:

[Katamarino]

Once again I'm very glad that we have the RAF, and that they have the freedom and imagination to handle situations like this. Well done to them! :ok:

[Dan Dare]

What a great story:eek:

What a poor piece of journalism:mad:

Best wishes to a VERY lucky pilot - I hope he defies the odds to get back in the pilot seat, although I guess it will be with some sort of NPPL or proximilty limitation now.

I have always been impressed with how the RAF deal with unusual situations and emergencies - D&D in particular, although I doubt that the pilot woud have been able to talk directly to them. Its reassuring that they are there when you need them (especialy when your emergency happens in Yorkshire).

Medals and cake all round:D:D:D:D:D

[G-CPTN]

BBC NEWS | UK | England | North Yorkshire | Blind pilot guided to land by RAF (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/north_yorkshire/7715345.stm)

[IO540]

Does anybody know for sure what plane type this was? The reports are everything from a 2-seater Cessna to a Citation :ugh:

If it was something reasonably equipped then a coupled approach on the autopilot would perhaps be the best way?

[Will Hung]

Yeah, it was Cessna 4 seat jet !

[BackPacker]

If it was something reasonably equipped then a coupled approach on the autopilot would perhaps be the best way?

How do you select an ILS frequency when you can't see?

[IO540]

That's a good point, BP :ok:

[Will Hung]

Is our new Tucano fighter force a result of more of Browns' stealthy cut-backs ?

[BackPacker]

To be honest, I'd really like to know more about what he could and could not see, exactly. One report suggests "blind" while another suggests "a blur".

Now a blur would allow you to see the horizon, more or less. Or maybe just the direction where the sunlight is coming from. So you have a reasonable chance of keeping the aircraft right side up without outside assistance. But if the pilot was indeed 100% blind he would not even see the real or artificial horizon and had to be kept right side up by sense and outside coaching alone.

The fact that he attempted three landings before the RAF scrambled a plane (or at least before the RAF plane formed up with him) suggests that he had some vision left, at least good enough to keep the plane upright, accept steering directions (I hesitate to call them vectors because I don't think he could see a compass) and get reasonably close to a runway, on final approach.

Well done all around. And I think 18 years of experience must have helped!

[PingDit]

From Dan Dare; 'I have always been impressed with how the RAF deal with unusual situations and emergencies - D&D in particular, although I doubt that the pilot woud have been able to talk directly to them. Its reassuring that they are there when you need them (especialy when your emergency happens in Yorkshire).'

Not a problem and we would normally talk directly to them via 121.5, 243 or on a frequency allocated by ATC.

[Keygrip]

How do you select an ILS frequency when you can't see?
Depends on your familiarity of the actual aircraft that you are in.

If you know the frequency that the (presumably Nav 1 [for A/P coupling]) box is currently selected to - possibly aided by selecting ident on the audio panel (by touch - count the buttons from the left) and by having *LEARNED* morse code and being able to read it - you could then count the clicks of the frequency selector knobs and change from current to desired frequency and re-ident.

Fortunately the ILS does not require the CDI (or similar) to be aligned with desired - so I guess that the A/P should be able to cope.

I *have* personally tried the first part - ident and retune, whilst simulated "blind" - but I've never tried to couple an A/P aftwerwards.

The first thought that springs to mind is that many A/P's follow the heading bug - and you wouldn't be able to set that.....ahh, yes you would (with ATC and radar help).

[IO540]

It depends on how much exactly you can see. If the NAV1 radio is already tuned to the ILS (which in my case it would be say 50nm before destination, because I use NAV2 for VORs) then engaging the AP to fly the ILS is easy enough, and a good AP will take you all the way to the runway. But totally blind? Not really possible.

[Airbus Girl]

Unless the plane had autoland I don't think a lot would be gained by a coupled approach. I would have thought it more likely to be a C172 and a talk down by the RAF plane - as in, descend, add a bit of power, left a bit, right a bit. A bit like an SRA. The RAF would have been his "aircraft attitude" eyes. I don't know where he landed but a big grass airfield would have been useful.

Poor guy though, reports say he is seriously ill. Presumably from an unknown medical condition (as in, unknown when he started the flight).

[BackPacker]

Keygrip, I agree that if you know the frequency nav1 is on, you can flip that frequency to standby, count the keyclicks and flip the new frequency to active. You don't need to learn morse: you can just ask ATC for what the ident should be and ask them to spell it out in morse.

Not a problem and we would normally talk directly to them via 121.5, 243 or on a frequency allocated by ATC.

Flip-flopping your nav1 frequency in the air is fine but if you make just one single mistake in flipping or adjusting your com1 frequency, you're not just blind, but deaf as well. I would not, under any circumstances, give up my ability to talk to someone when I just lost my vision. If D&D wants to talk to me, fine, they can join me on my present frequency, thank you very much.

Having said that, the GNS 430 (and possibly other units) have a feature where you press a certain button for a number of seconds and then it puts 121.5 in the standby frequency straight away. That's the only thing I would possibly give a try, as far as my com1 is concerned.

[BackPacker]

Unless the plane had autoland I don't think a lot would be gained by a coupled approach.

I would definitely go for that if I were able to set it up. Let the aircraft fly itself all the way to the tarmac, at a speed just above stall speed so that the main wheels touch first. Maybe chop the power 10-20 feet above the runway and let the autopilot and gravity battle it out - my estimate is that the autopilot, in order to maintain the glideslope, would pull up the aircraft a bit, trading speed for a reduction in vertical speed and effectively executing a sort of flare.

Or simply let the A/P fly the ILS but ask ATC to give you a cue when you're 10 feet above the ground. Then disconnect, chop the power, pull back the column until you hear the stall warner, and keep it there until you touch.

Landing on a large airport with a large, unobstructed runway and specialist emergency services nearby would be preferable than landing in a large field of unknown quality, I'd say.

I would have thought it more likely to be a C172 and a talk down by the RAF plane - as in, descend, add a bit of power, left a bit, right a bit. A bit like an SRA. The RAF would have been his "aircraft attitude" eyes.

As I said earlier, it matters greatly whether the pilot could see the horizon, or at least the direction the sunlight is coming from, and thus whether he could keep the plane upright. If he can't, the only instructions you can reasonably give are along the lines of "bank right a bit" "a bit more" "bank left a bit" "pitch down a bit" "reduce power a bit" and so forth. Trouble is, we all do this unconsciously when flying, because we can see a horizon (artificial or real) and now the pilot of the chase plane has to do this consciously all of a sudden (while keeping his own plane in the air simultaneously). No trivial task.

It would be like sitting next to someone in a car and giving driving directions along the lines of "steering wheel to the right a bit more", "break" and so forth. I think James May did that once in Top Gear, having a blind guy drive (race, actually) around the circuit.

[B747-800]

his four-seater Cessna jet


The RAF said a fighter plane used for training pilots was sent up to intercept Jim's Cessna. It had been modified so it was able to travel at a slow enough speed to fly alongside the Cessna.


"My father could not see anything at 15,000ft. He would not have made out a hand in front of him, let alone see a runway. It is a miracle he is alive.

had to check my calendar: NO ITS NOT the 1st of April! It's the 7th of November. am i dreaming or am i blind, too?

[Whiskey Papa]

As usual, bad journos have ensured that the storey dosn't stack up. Why/how would you modify a Tucano to fly slowly enough to pace a "Cessna jet"? Can a Tucano even keep up with a Citation? If it was a C152/172, 15,000ft is a tad high, although it would explain a possible stroke at that altitude. I too would be incapacitated or die of old age before my C152 achieved that altitude.

Well done RAF, Excellent! - best wishes and a speedy recovery to Mr O'Neill.

[VFE]

I would imagine had he been totally blind and without autopilot already engaged (or extremely trusting of his sense of touch in order to engage it) then he would've ended up in a spiral dive within minutes, if not seconds.

VFE.

[Say again s l o w l y]

James did really well. I haven't spoken to him about it yet, but I'm very glad to see he got down in one piece!

Nice one fella!

[youngskywalker]

I believe it was a turbocharged 182, so more than capable of those altitudes.

[west lakes]

The Cessna was a T-182T Turbo Skylane, more than capable of 15,000ft i think?

From a post in the Mil thread running on the same event

[liam548]

excellent! well done to all

[juliet india mike]

I was at Full Sutton at the time and took the call on the landline from Linton. They said he had trouble with glare and wanted to get him to us. He had called a pan then downgraded it himself. He flew twice through our overhead at 1000-1500 ft from the W and again from the SE and could not see us . He was straight level, in cruise, no flaps, good viz. He never switched to our A/G, very wise 'cos it was only me there.

Chap from Linton on the phone sounded like they did this sort of thing every day.

Excellent job all round, hope he recovers fully.

[tuscan]

Ive just seen it on our local news up here in Edinburgh. Good job by all those involved:ok:

[vanHorck]

What a fantastic story with a great outcome after months of lousy news!

Well done to both the RAF and the pilot. I hope he will make a total recovery.

Truly sensational this, blind or blurred, no matter, to think the RAF is able to do this in such a calm and solid way means we DO have an angel in the sky!

I was truly moved when i heard the radio recording.

[al446]

First Lewis Hamilton wins championship, then Obama gets himself elected president then this. If I believed in a god I would thank him/her.

[beamender99]

BBC NEWS | England | North Yorkshire | Blind pilot guided to land by RAF (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/7715345.stm)

This previously posted link now has an interview with his son.

TV reporting that the sight in one eye was gone and very limited / blurred vision the other eye but able to just about make out the runway at approx 400 meters.

( his eye sight is improving)

[smarthawke]

From the RAF:

RAF Linton-on-Ouse - News and Weather (http://www.raf.mod.uk/RAFlintononouse/newsweather/index.cfm?storyid=77B3FA11-1143-EC82-2E916D7205D0BE65&rss=true)

Stunning job.

[OneIn60rule]

What would I do if I became blind for who knows why.
It's incredible to see that this worked out harmlessly.

As to the media, the person could see but VERY VERY limited. The point at which he saw the runway was apparently just before touch down?

1/60

[EastCoaster]

...... and best wishes for a speedy recovery to Mr. O'Neill.

Just an observation though (possibly only relevant for informational purposes, to any lurking journo's), but it would have been either a VERY BRAVE or VERY FOOLHARDY pilot to take a Cessna through the Vale of York AIAA at 15,000ft! :eek:
I'm sure we'll find out eventually what the actual facts are once the official incident report is published, though.

Thumbs up to the RAF guys, great job :ok:

[TotalBeginner]

The BBC have posted an audio clip of the RTF...

BBC NEWS | UK | Talking down the blind pilot (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7716703.stm)

[UV]

Yes, a good job done by the RAF...
But some of the repondents here are as bad as the Journos, if not worse!!!!
Lets wait and see what really happened...
UV

[sleemanj]

shows just how bad the situation was, the pilot couldn't see the runway at all (in otherwise good visibility conditions one assumes) until basically when he was touching down. Definately worth listening!

[Karl Bamforth]

I would have thought that losing your eyesight is a very distressing situation at best.

Even safely on the ground I think it would cause panic in most of us.

Well done to all concerned.

[Nov71]

Again reported facts are confused,15000ft or 5000ft, Cessna basic or Turbo, vision blind or restricted, Mayday or PAN, RAF Tucano specially modified for incident, missed radar solo approach at York.
It has been demonstrated that experienced pilots (road or air) can achieve world records if accompanied by sighted 'navigators' alongside.
A result in this case, I guess the RAF pilot will get an extra Xmas card, at least and James will be thankful it was only a CVA, not a heart attack!

Well done both!

[Flying Farmer]

Hats off to both the chaps involved, a job extremely well done.

I had to chuckle at the Cessna pilots remark on sighting the runway " am I cleared to land" :ok: that would have probably been the last thing on my mind in the circumstances, your professionalism shone through Sir.

A remarkable day after the incidents over the last few weeks.

[WorkingHard]

What a wonderful outcome for all concerned. The incapacitated pilot was so cool and focused and the shepherd did a super job and in both cases the training shone through (as well as experience of course). Why then do I find it a little bit disingenuous for some to suggest the RAF chap get a medal for his efforts. He did a SUPERB job but surely not to warrant a medal! This is being suggested on the mil thread about the incident.

[Knight Paladin]

Air Force Crosses have been awarded to feats of airmanship where a pilot has saved his own aircraft, so why not to someone who has saved someone else's aircraft AND life? Obviously not up to me to decide, but for my 2p's worth I would say it would be deserved.

[KeyPilot]

This is truly awesome, as others have said amidst a climate of generally adverse news we have a heartwarming and inspiring story of the brotherhood of aviation, and that even in dire circumstances a combination of skill, professionalism and maintaining one's cool, can lead to a positive outcome.

Well done to all!

[flyingman-of-kent]

It sounded like an airborne version of the SRA, just goes to show that these should be retained for the odd situation that may arise when they would have been perfect for guiding him down.

When I was learning my instructor took us to Manston to do some SRA's and on one he suggested that I did not look outside till he said, so I carried on listening and following exactly the instructions till they terminated and I was about 10 feet off the runway lined up perfectly in landing configuration. Just a case of flaring to carry out the landing. I always vowed that this would be where I would go if the weather clagged out but of course it is not available there any more. Shame, it was a great safety cushion.

Well done to all involved, and no I don't think a medal would be out of the question. Just what sort of medal?

[Knight Paladin]

From the sounds of it, they'd already tried to talk him down a few SRAs or PARs, any kind of instrument approach is going to be tricky if you can't see the instruments, or the runway from DH/MDH. In fact, without being able to read the altimeter, an SRA would be seriously limited - azimuth corrections only.

[flyingman-of-kent]

True, it was a while ago, sorry

[prettygrumman]

Two newspapers today give the altitude as 15000 ft. Yesterdays TV coverage gave the altitude as 5000 feet.:hmm::hmm: Was he breathing O2 at the higher altitude?

[LA4200]

Well done to everyone involved..especially to Mr O'Neill for keeping his cool. I wish him a speedy recovery.
Having been in a similar talkdown situation myself some years ago, I can honestly say that when a pilot lets it be known that they are in difficulty, ATC\D&D become the best friends you could ever wish for, their calm and very professional voice in your earphones is so,so reassuring at this time, leaving you in no doubt whatsoever that you have their full and undivided attention and that everything possible will be done to get you safely down on the ground..or in my case, water!
If there are any medals to be handed out..don't forget the controller\s:ok:

[omega892]

Well said LA4200, you have hit the nail on the head with your comments.
A "bravo zulu" to all concerned. May professionalism reign.:ok: