Safetycom etc

[Lister Noble]

I received my Light Aviation mag this morning and there is a letter on page 15 that has confused me a little.
It mentions Safetycom 134.475 and Microlight channel 129.825 as channels that may be used.
Most airfields have a nominated channel on which pilots communicate,then when out of circuit use the local ATC channel.
I am showing my ignorance but when would these other channels be used,because I can only listen on one frequency at a time?
Lister

[Rod1]

You only use Safetycom at strips with no allocated radio frequency. Remember to include your location in the call, eg right hand down wind for 22 at XXX. It is very useful and the result of a very long campaign to get it allocated.

Rod1

[Lister Noble]

Rod,thank you.
The letter does explain in detail how to use it,as you describe, but not the situation in which it would be used.
Apparently the microlight channel is abused by general chatter ,so is not much use.
I'm sure this wasn't covered in the RT lessons/exam and is not in my RT Manual,maybe it should be?
Lister

[Rod1]

I have not got my mag yet. I have been to several flyins which were on strips with no radio allocated and there was a hopeless mix of people using safetycom and the micro frequency. As vis was generally poor it was not the best solution, especially if you throw in 50% non radio traffic as well. At the strip I fly from it is compulsory to use safetycom if you have a radio and it has defiantly made things safer.

Rod1

[Zulu Alpha]

We use Safetycom at our unmanned strip as it allows two way communications. We don't have a A/G or ATC service.

I believe it has helped as previously all we could do was announce our intentions to the Lakenheath MATZ controllers ands listen out for anyone else doing the same. We couldn't have a 2 way conversation.

I think it was only introduced 2 years ago so may not have made its way into the radio proceedure textbooks.

ZA

[Spitoon]

See CAP 413 Chapter 4 Section 6.

[Lister Noble]

So if one is going to fly into an unmanned strip it would be wise to check out procedure beforehand,which would normally be done to ascertain approval or not.

Zulu,on another note,I had 40 mins in an Extra 200 at Cambridge this week,to improve my spin recovery technique.
What an aircraft,bit different from the Cub!
Lister:)

[Lister Noble]

Spitoon,
Thank you,CAP 413 downloaded and saved.
Lister

[Zulu Alpha]

Zulu,on another note,I had 40 mins in an Extra 200 at Cambridge this week,to improve my spin recovery technique.
What an aircraft,bit different from the Cub!
Lister

Welcome to the dark side! The Cub may never seem the same again.

Re Safetycom, I agree with Phoning first, some places use Safetycom and others don't. We use it.
One problem is that many people don't put the airfield name at the beginning and end. So you get a call G-XX downwind for yy and you have no idea where they are.

ZA

[Jodelman]

It mentions Safetycom 134.475

Just to be clear - Safetycom is 135.475

[Spitoon]

Sorry to be pedantic.
Re Safetycom, I agree with Phoning first, some places use Safetycom and others don't. We use it.
It's pilots that use it, not aerodromes.

One problem is that many people don't put the airfield name at the beginning and end. So you get a call G-XX downwind for yy and you have no idea where they are.RTFM.

[VictorGolf]

I fully agree that you should state the field you're going in to at both ends of your message. It's also quite surprising how far the signals go. I was calling our strip in Cambs and shortly thereafter heard a chum, I'd just been with at a Fly-In, calling his strip in Wiltshire. I resisted the temptation for a chat.

[Lister Noble]

VHF transmission is by line of sight,normally stopped by curvature of earth,or terrain.
In good conditions even a low power transmissiom can go for many miles.
Lister

[Cusco]

Safetycom should not be used further than 10 NM from the intended strip.

ZA's point about using airfield location at the beginning and the end of the transmission a la US Unicom though not mentioned in the above CAA document is a point well made: from overhead our strip (same strip as ZA) I have heard a/c making approach broadcasts without mentioning any airfield name: I only excluded our airstrip in the Tx when runway orientation mentioned didn't compute.

Cusco.

[Spitoon]

ZA's point about using airfield location at the beginning and the end of the transmission a la US CTAF though not mentioned in the above CAA document is a point well made: from overhead our strip (same strip as ZA) I have heard a/c making approach broadcasts without mentioning any airfield name: I only excluded our airstrip in the Tx when runway orientation mentioned didn't compute.

RTFM.

See CAP 413 Chapter 4 Section 6 para 6.2.2. To save you the trouble of looking it up, it says

SAFETYCOM is a single common frequency and pilots should be aware of the possibility of congestion and breakthrough. It is particularly important when using SAFETYCOM that RTF transmissions identify the aerodrome name (suffixed 'traffic') in order to indicate the relevance of the report to other aircraft. Transmissions must be correct and concise.

[tangovictor]

Apparently the microlight channel is abused by general chatter ,so is not much use.
I'm sure this wasn't covered in the RT lessons/exam and is not in my RT Manual,maybe it should be?
Lister
I fly a 3 axis microlight from an unlicenced airfield and most pilots use 129.825 to announce arrival, always stating which airfield, never heard anyone " abusing the channel "

[jxk]

The safety-com frequency (135.475) was well advertised when it was first introduced, so it's surprising that it has slipped under the radar so to speak.We monitor 'safety-com' at our airfield but you do hear it being used elsewhere like it was discrete frequency.

[Lister Noble]

"I fly a 3 axis microlight from an unlicenced airfield and most pilots use 129.825 to announce arrival, always stating which airfield, never heard anyone " abusing the channel "

The quote I gave was from the letter in LA mag.
Lister

[Cusco]

RTFM.

See CAP 413 Chapter 4 Section 6 para 6.2.2. To save you the trouble of looking it up, it says

SAFETYCOM is a single common frequency and pilots should be aware of the possibility of congestion and breakthrough. It is particularly important when using SAFETYCOM that RTF transmissions identify the aerodrome name (suffixed 'traffic') in order to indicate the relevance of the report to other aircraft. Transmissions must be correct and concise.
Spitoon is online now Report Post Reply

Kindly RTFM yourself Spitoon: while CAP413 suggests adding 'traffic' to the airfield name it does not (as I was suggesting - as the Americans do) suggest to finish the transmission with 'XXXX traffic' as well as commencing the transmission with the same identifier.

This would avoid problems when one misses the initial bit of the transmission but then picks up that someone in range is approaching/downwind/landing at a strip which may be the strip you yourself are at or one close by.

In the example I gave I only excluded that it was our strip by the runway orientation given : no names were transmitted at all (yes I heard the entire message).

We have a slight problem at our strip as one pilot resolutely refuses to use safetycom..............

:ugh: Cusco

[Lister Noble]

Sorry,I'm thick,what does it mean?
Lister

[Mariner9]

Read The 'effin Manual ;)

[Spitoon]

Cusco, I read your post as berrating those who did not identify the field at all in the transmission - as highlighted in your post. Sorry, I missed the point about adding it at the end also.

Nonetheless, I too have heard undisciplined and unidentified broadcasts which far from helping the situation can do more to confuse - adding the airfield name would undoubtedly help!

I'm puzzled though that you think that CAP 413 suggests addind 'traffic' to the airfield name - I read it as a procedure that is applied if one chooses to use Safetycom.

And as for the pilot who refuses to use Safetycom, the procedures in CAP 413 clearly make it a facility that is available rather than one that is mandatory - he/she is quite within their rights, if unhelpful and potentially foolhardy.

[Rod1]

“And as for the pilot who refuses to use Safetycom, the procedures in CAP 413 clearly make it a facility that is available rather than one that is mandatory - he/she is quite within their rights, if unhelpful and potentially foolhardy.”

Most strips, even very informal ones, have rules. If it is a Strip rule that you use Safetycom or find another place to fly from then most people will comply.

Rod1

[Zulu Alpha]

And as for the pilot who refuses to use Safetycom, the procedures in CAP 413 clearly make it a facility that is available rather than one that is mandatory - he/she is quite within their rights, if unhelpful and potentially foolhardy.

The strip concerned is within Lakenheaths MATZ. The other pilot (not me)feels it is safer to stay on their frequency rather than using Safetycom. So this boils down to which proceedure individuals feel is best but it is probably not foolhardy.

The original point was that we suggest using the name of the airfield at the beginning and the end of a radio call as sometimes it can be missed at the beginning. This is not outlined in CAP413 but maybe should be.
I'm not 100% sure, but believe it is the proceedure when using unicom in the US

ZA

[Spitoon]

...then most people will complyAgreed. But it's still not mandatory in the CAA sense. And as I mentioned earlier, it's pilots that use Safetycom, not aerodromes.

[Cusco]

Point of order ZA, the strip is actually well outside Lakenheath's MATZ:

It is however inside the MLD/LKH/HON CMATZ, but the Honington bit is only (rarely) activated by Notam.

Rod 1

We have guidelines rather than rules at our strip: we are still clinging by our fingernails to the 'Gentlemanly' approach.

i am trying to introduce formal agreements to our users right now:

Getting formal agreements at airstrips can be like herding cats: everyone tries to go off at a tangent and reaching a consensus when after all we're only trying to formalise the status quo can be a nightmare.

One has to ask why there is a fear of formal agreements...........

Oh, and I have given up on the party who refuses to use safetycom.........

Cusco.

[Lister Noble]

Mariner,thank you.
I can understand that now.
Lister;)

[Cusco]

I'm puzzled though that you think that CAP 413 suggests addind 'traffic' to the airfield name - I read it as a procedure that is applied if one chooses to use Safetycom.

If you look at your post of 22.06hrs yesterday you will see that it was you who made this suggestion................

The suffix 'traffic' is used when at an aerodrome which normally has Radio but it might not be operational at that specific time: unmanned due to no staff, gone for a pee etc).

In these circumstances safetycom must not be used, rather '(station name) traffic'.

It follows therefore that at a field which has no dedicated radio the term '(airfield name) traffic' if used at the beginning and the end of the transmission on Safetycom (and within the altitude and distance ranges given in the official Safetycom document) IMHO would maximise situational awareness of other traffic in exactly the same way as traffic awareness is brought to normally manned but temp unmanned airfields with their own dedicated frequency: the addition of 'traffic' highlights that a response from the ground is unlikely.

Cusco

[Spitoon]

Cusco, the text in the earlier post was a cut 'n paste from CAP 413...so I'll decline to accept all responsibility for the words! Maybe I should have made it clear where the words came from.

But I still don't see it as a suggestion - to me it reads as a reminder of the need to include the airfield indentification in broadcasts. But I can see the alternative interpretation now that you point it out.