logbook and GMT/BST

[liam548]

what shoud be used I have been told by instructors that using BST is fine.

Is this the case, I mean I know by the date if I would have been referring to BST or GMT would i...?

[Final 3 Greens]

Liam

I doubt anyone is going to have a heart attack over this, but its more convenient to use UTC (the same as GMT), wherever you are flying.

[tacpot]

I always use GMT/UTC. The watch, clock and stopwatch I keep in my flightbag are all set to GMT/UTC, so the times I note down for brakes off/on/take off & landing are already in GMT/UTC.

Keep it simple!

tp

[liam548]

it says in my log book if i use BST then just mark it as such, so I think ill do that then it is the same as what is recorded at flying school but i know which need to be converted to UTC if need be.

[Envoy320]

GMT - It never changes....any other local time changes when the clocks move thus making the logbook incorrect if you are operating on that night....as quite often people are!!

[BackPacker]

Local time for me, unless it is a flight that crosses a time zone boundary, in which case I use UTC.

[liam548]

I see what you are saying. I have just bought a replacement log book as I messed an entry up early on and wanted it to be right so was just asking. I also wanted to use 1.05 hours/mins instead of 0.8 decimals etc as it makes more sense.

I have decided on using local time (for ease when operating locally and so they match the times in the training record) but with BST written above the times so I know which are BST and the rest are UTC/GMT.

:)

[FREDSIMTH]

"I have just bought a replacement log book as I messed an entry up early on "

Blimey, get a life and save a few trees in the process. Try tipex

[liam548]

"I have just bought a replacement log book as I messed an entry up early on "

Blimey, get a life and save a few trees in the process. Try tipex


it would have looked a bodge. It wasnt just a simple 1 character mistake.
Plus i can now use one as a back up in case one is lost.

Ill plant some trees to make up for it though, sorry.

[CJ Driver]

As soon as you broaden your horizons and fly across a few different time zones or borders (which can be as exotic as a flying holiday in Australia or as simple as a lunch across in France) you will discover why UTC is the benchmark of choice for flying. It's what you write on your flight plan; it's what the weather forecaster tells you; it's what the NOTAMs use for restrictions and TRA's; it's what you should write on your PLOG; it's what you'll give in radio calls of position reports or estimates, and it is what you should put in the aircraft tech log.

How you could possibly use something else for your personal records without being completely schizophrenic is a mystery to me.:confused:

[172driver]

Flightplans, NOTAMs, METARs, TAFs, a/c time sheets - all are in UTC. Essentially everything in aviation and all the documents and info you deal with in a flight - so why use some LT in your logbook ?? Beats me.....

PS: I still prefer to call it GMT, though ;)

[Airbus Girl]

I don't think it matters one iota.

I've done 6000 hours and never written a single take-off or landing time in my logbook, only the total time (plus breakdown eg. night, day, IFR etc.).

And yes, I know the CAA say you should, but I submitted my logbooks to the CAA and they never even queried it, I still got all my licences issued without any problems.

Do what suits you.

[javelin]

Never put a time in my book in 13,500 hours.

Elapsed time only, noted whether night or day.

Always use decimal time, rounded up of course ;-)

Never a problem.

Jav

[A and C]

As said above the law only requires the flight time BUT having seen peoples log books investigated by the CAA during CPL/ATPL issue I think that it is a distinct advantage to have the start & finish times recorded.

It makes proving that you have done the flying very much simpler as the times in your logbook will tie up with the airfield logs that the CAA will look at to check that the flight was made.

Using GMT just keeps the whole thing standard and simple as this is what should be on the navigation log.

[englishal]

I haven't logged a single time either, just duration!

(and I have loads of Tipex in my logbook too ;))

[IO540]

There is no law on this, so anything is OK.

What actually matters is the flight duration.

[BackPacker]

...as the times in your logbook will tie up with the airfield logs that the CAA will look at...

Well, considering that the CAA does not have or hold copies of your logbook, and also does not have or hold copies of the airfield logs, and considering that the CAA does not have unlimited resources, I'd say it is very, very unlikely that the CAA will compare your logbook with the airfields logbooks in routine cases.

If they suspect a massive case of fraud they might, but not for the routine issuance of a CPL/ATPL.

[172driver]

There is no law on this, so anything is OK.

Interesting, I was under the impression that it was mandatory under JAR/CAA, as opposed to FAA where flight duration only is required.

[Mike Cross]

JAR–FCL 1.080 Recording of flight time
(See IEM FCL 1.080)
(a) Details of all flights flown as a pilot shall be kept in a reliable record in a logbook format acceptable to the Authority (see IEM FCL 1.080).
Details of flights flown under JAR–OPS 1, may be recorded in an acceptable computerised format maintained by the operator. In this case an operator shall make the records of all flights operated by the pilot, including differences and familiarisation training, available on request to the flight crew member concerned.
(b) The record shall contain the following information:
(1) Personal details:
Name and address of the holder
(2) For each flight:
(i) Name of Pilot-in-command
(ii) Date (day, month, year) of flight
(iii) Place and time of departure and arrival (times (UTC) to be block time)
(iv) Type (aeroplane make, model and variant) and registration of aeroplane
(v) SE, ME
(vi) Total time of flight
(vii) Accumulated total time of flight
(3) For each flight simulator or FNPT session:
(i) Type and qualification number of training device
(ii) Synthetic training device instruction
(iii) Date (d/m/y)
(iv) Total time of session
(v) Accumulated total time
(4) Pilot function:
(i) Pilot-in-command (including solo\\\\ slsolo, SPIC, PICUS time)
(ii) Co-pilot
(iii) Dual
(iv) Flight instructor / Flight examiner
(v) A remarks column will be provided to give details of specific functions e.g. SPIC, PICUS, instrument flight time*, etc.
* A pilot may log as instrument flight time only that time during which he
operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments, under actual or
simulated instrument flight conditions.
(5) Operational conditions:
(i) Night
(ii) IFR

I doubt that mine complies! (but then I don't have a JAA Licence)

ANO Art 35
Personal flying log book
35 (1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order shall keep a personal flying log book in which the following particulars shall be recorded:
(a) the name and address of the holder of the log book;
(b) particulars of the holder’s licence (if any) to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft; and
(c) the name and address of his employer (if any).
(2) Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the log book acted either as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order, as the case may be, shall be recorded in the log book at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable, including:
(a) the date, the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in either capacity;
(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;
(d) particulars of any special conditions under which the flight was conducted, including night flying and instrument flying; and
(e) particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in flight.
(3) For the purposes of this article, a helicopter shall be deemed to be in flight from the moment the helicopter first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the rotors are next stopped.
(4) Particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in a flight simulator shall be recorded in the log book, including:
(a) the date of the test or examination;
(b) the type of simulator;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted; and
(d) the nature of the test or examination.

[172driver]

Thanks Mike, that's what I thought.

[Mike Cross]

Odd thing about JAR–FCL 1.080 is that it seems to assume that the pilot performs the same function throughout the entire flight.

[PlasticPilot]

Local time (whatever the timezone), unless the fliht involved different timezones, in which case I use UTC with a note in the remarks column.

[S-Works]

Always local time. When crossing a time zone both times are logged in the zone of the takeoff. Logging in UTC always seemed a bit pointless to me, especially in some of the places I have flown where the time difference from local to UTC is large.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've never used anything but Zulu (a.k.a UTC or GMT).

The extract from JAR FCL-1 posted by Mike Cross seems to mandate this. Of course, JAR-FCL-1 doesn't apply to everybody - and so far as I know, not to most PPLs.

UK CAA rules do apply to PPLs and only require date, time in any aircrew capacity, and a few "specials" (night, IFR, tests, instruction - all fairly predictable stuff) but not take-off and landing times [ANO article 35 if anybody wants to look it up], but generally you know where you are with UTC - just about everything else in aviation uses it, so that would certainly be my advice to anybody recording times.

G