Telegraph Campaign For Bomber Command Memorial

[VinRouge]

Why we must finally honour the men of RAF Bomber Command - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/rafbombercommand/3269006/Why-we-must-finally-honour-the-men-of-RAF-Bomber-Command.html)

In other words, to defeat Nazi Germany, defending our island would not be enough: Britain had to attack. And between the Dunkirk evacuation of 1940 and the D-Day landings of June 1944, there was no way of directly attacking Germany itself – other than by bombing.
Night bombing in those early days was in its infancy. Navigation aids were rudimentary – aircrews still used sextants. Yet they were expected to pinpoint military and industrial targets, often a single factory, deep inside Germany at night.
Frequent bad weather and poor visibility made this a near impossible challenge. Eventually the War Cabinet ordered that, unless weather conditions allowed otherwise, attacks had to be directed mainly on the area-bombing of industrial cities – to increase the likelihood of damaging something – even if it was only the morale of German industrial workers.
Although many of the aircrews would have preferred otherwise, there was little choice and of course, the Germans had already pioneered the practice of area-bombing cities during the Blitz, killing 43,000 British civilians.
By 1943/44 Bomber Command was sending hundreds of bombers a night over Europe – forcing the Germans on to the defensive. This had a vital strategic effect: one million men, tens of thousands of weapons and aircraft and a mass of resources had to be diverted from the Germans' struggle with the Russians on the Eastern Front to defend the homeland against the bomber attacks from the West.
Albert Speer, Hitler's armaments minister, later described the bomber offensive from the Nazis' perspective as "the greatest lost battle of the war".
But the cost was painfully heavy. All RAF aircrews were volunteers, with an average age of 22. Of 125,000 bomber aircrew involved, more than 55,000 were killed, over 8,000 were wounded and nearly 10,000 were prisoners of war. This was on a scale proportionate to British casualties in the trenches during the worst period of World War One.
Bomber Command's contribution to victory (and loss of aircrew lives) was widely recognised at the time. But no specific campaign medal was awarded at the end of the war. Churchill, sensing potential political squeamishness when the devastation of Germany by bombing would become clear, distanced himself from the bombing campaign he had personally initiated and encouraged.
In July 1945 he was also out of office and the new Labour Government under Clement Attlee steadfastly refused requests for a medal. This shows how quickly the circumstances under which the War Cabinet had ordered the policy, in the darkest days of the conflict, were forgotten!
Bomber Command was originally set up to bomb purely military targets and indeed did so in attacking every aspect of Germany's war machine: armaments factories, ports, U-boat pens, shipping, oil refineries, transport links, troop concentrations, air bases, rail links, communications, military headquarters and even dams. But much of the effort, in darkness and impossible conditions, had to be in the form of area bombing. It was crude but effective: Germany's war making capacity was held back and eventually crippled. When the Allied armies finally did invade Europe in 1944 they fought their way to liberate Europe with massive direct bomber support.
It is the recognition of what was achieved in the wide range of our sustained operations over the whole five years of the war that we now seek. A Memorial in Central London to the many young men who died and to the vital contribution made by Bomber Command to victory would provide that recognition.
* Sir Michael Beetham DFC was a Lancaster bomber pilot in the Second World War, flying his first raid over Berlin at the age of 20. He went on to become Chief of the Air Staff, the professional head of the Royal Air Force.


About Bloody time. Bomber Harris fought tirelessly to his last day for a memorial to the lads that died as part of the bomber campaign; one that for political correctness reasons was refused time and time again. Having read Bomber Boys, the sacrifices that these lads made, together with their contribution to the war effort, however unpalatable to some, needs recognizing. How many of us would object to the Luftwaffe establishing a memorial to their bomber crews? I wouldnt. This isnt about the job they had to do, this is about the enormous sacrifice they made. They gave their futures... The least we can do is establish a memorial to remember that sacrifice.

[November4]

Heard this story on the Today programme. Was a little confused over this memorial as it seems that this is a *new* memorial and will be the first one to Bomber Command. Today interveiwed a spokesman about the memorial and he said that they are trying to negotiate a suitable location, funding and an architect....yet in Sat (18 Oct) Mail (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1078658/Sixty-years-late-wrong-righted-bomber-heroes-given-fitting-memorial.html) there was an article about how the first memorial to Bomber Command would up in Regent's Park by next year.

Sixty years late, a wrong is righted as bomber heroes will be given a fitting memorial

Night after night they climbed into their cramped and freezing aircraft to strike at Germany's cities and factories.

And each time they flew, the odds of them surviving the night-fighters and flak grew longer and longer.

Yet the sacrifice and seemingly inexhaustible bravery of the young men of Bomber Command has gone almost unrecognised for 60 years

Even Churchill snubbed them, though they faced some of the worst losses of any branch of the British military.

However, it emerged that the heroes of Bomber Command are at last to be recognised with their own memorial.

Campaigners have won the struggle to raise funds for a £2million memorial in Regent's Park to honour the 55,000 who lost their lives during the war.

It will go some way to ending a longstanding injustice which the project's supporters blame on 'political correctness.' After the war there was widespread unease over what the airmen were asked to do - the tactic of carpet-bombing German cities - and horror at the effects of this on civilians.

Former Bee Gees singer Robin Gibb, a passionate supporter of the campaign, told the Mail enough money had now been raised for building work to go ahead.

'The memorial will be up in Regent's Park next year,' he said. 'We have agreed a site, but we still need to raise a bit more money.

'I feel very emotional about this. These guys are heroes. Everyone in Britain and the rest of Europe owes them a debt. It has been 63 years and yet successive governments have failed to honour them.

'This is not about glorifying war, it is about honouring sacrifice.'

The singer, who is president of the Heritage Foundation which honours noteworthy British achievers, said the memorial would take the form of seven bronze statues of crew members in uniform, facing outwards in a circle.

The bomber offensive played a major role in defeating Hitler's Germany and was initially one of the few ways in which Britain could strike back at the Nazis.

However, by the end of the war the tactics of 'area bombing' cities - estimated to have caused up to 600,000 civilian casualties - had become increasingly controversial, particularly after some were reduced to rubble.
The strategy was largely dictated by the technology of the day, because long-range high-level bombers lacked the accuracy to hit individual factories.

Churchill backed the strategy but snubbed Bomber Command in his 1945 victory broadcast, thanking all sections of the RAF except the bomber force. While the debate over the allied tactics has raged, survivors felt that their valour and sacrifice were unfairly forgotten.

So is this the same memorial that the Telegraph and Today were on about or a different one? Will Bomber Command now have 2 memorials?

[Al R]

It still wouldn't be enough. If true, brilliant news and long, long overdue.

Well done to the campaigners. :D

[CirrusF]

By all means provide a memorial to the valour and sacrifice of Bomber Command - but the memorial should not omit the fact that there were 600,000 civilian victims.

[S'land]

CirrusF:
I see by your post you are a revisionist historian of the David Irvine ilk. Perhaps you would rather we were all walking around going "Sieg Heil"?

but the memorial should not omit the fact that there were 600,000 civilian victims.

Bo§§ocks. Even here in Germany it is recognised that the number killed was a maximum of 25.000. Still a terrible figure, but terrible things happen in war. How many British civilians were killed by German bombing raids on the UK? How many German civilians were killed by the Nazi's in concentration camps, etc. in Germany or territory occupied by Germany?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/3123512/Dresden-bombing-death-toll-lower-than-thought.html

[brickhistory]

A). I don't think there's any shortage of memory to the losses of WWII.

B) Don't start a war if you can't take a joke.

[Doctor Cruces]

For fcuks sake, CirrusF, it was war. Europe was under Nazi heel (an outfit that killed many more innocent civilians than Bomber Command ever did) and the few that were left had to stop this evil regime by whatever means was necessary. If bombing civilians to shatter thir morale and will to work for Nazi victory, then so be it. Remember, THEY started it, THEY turned a blind eye to the horrible acts committed and THEY deserved everything they got.

This was the last just war that was fought, and we and the allies faught it with all our might and we WON, securing freedom from Nazi tyranny and extermination of those who opposed it and those they thought undesirable.

You're splitting hairs, Cirrus, and have you forgotten Guernica? As Arthur said, They sowed the wind, they shall reap the whirlwind, and they did.

It was evil, awful and all such descriptions of war but just imagine what it would be like if we had lost.

While we're at it, how about a campaign medal for Bomber Command?




Doc C

[cazatou]

S'land,

I don't know where you get your figure of "max 25000 Civilian German casualties from bombing" during WW2 came from. The UK never suffered 1000 Bomber raids in WW2 but 60,595 civilians were killed by bombing (out of a total of 146,777 casualties).

Even in WW1 a total of 1,117 Civilians were killed by air attack. (Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire During the Great War 1914-1920, Part XXIV "Airship and Aeroplane Raids over Great Britain During the Great War 1914-1920, PartXXIV: Airship and Aeroplane Raids over Great Britain and Bombardment of the Coast, with resulting Casualties." HMSO, 1922)

Dr Cruces

We did this one a couple of weeks ago (a campaign medal for Bomber Command).

Bomber Command were not the only ones who bombed Germany - during the 1000 Bomber raids Harris used crews from Coastal Command, Flying Training Command and Army Cooperation Command; those crews would not be eligible for such a medal. Squadrons based in Italy contributed to the Bombing attack on Germany - but they were not in Bomber Command and would not be eligible for such a medal. The brave men of the Photographic Reconnaissance Unit who flew lone unarmed aircraft to photograph targets, before and after raids, would not be eligible for such a medal.

Then you have the Beaufighter and Mosquito night fighter crews who flew with the Bomber Streams to help protect them from German nightfighters - they would not be eligible.

[dakkg651]

Bluddy Hell Cirrus.

This is the second thread you've used to expound your anti-military views.

If this was 1940 you would have been awarded a white feather mate.

Are you sure you are in the right forum?

[Chugalug2]

Caz, I think that S'land is referring to the revision of Goebbels's figures for the casualties caused by the bombing of Dresden, so avidly seized on by our own liberal thinkers, which have now been downsized from half a million to some 25,000 by German Historians.
The proposed Regents Park Bomber Command Memorial is, AFAIK, the only one planned for London. The Heritage Foundation, heading up the project, and the Bomber Command Association, are working in partnership to achieve it. During an inevitably long gestation period they release from time to time another publicity initiative. This is the latest one, and lead by MRAF Sir Michael Beetham, BCA's President. A remarkable leader of some remarkable men! The videos attached to the Telegraph page are well worth viewing, and all praise to the Telegraph for their continuing coverage of such a worthy cause.
Off thread re Bomber Command Medals: as you say Caz covered by another thread, but I would point out that there are two medals being confused here, neither of which were ever issued. One is a Bomber Command Medal, called for by Harris for award to ALL members of BC who served in WW2. An absolute non-starter as membership alone of a military formation has never, AFAIK, resulted in the award of a UK medal. The second medal would have been a Bombing Campaign Medal, awarded for a campaign defined by time and place as all UK campaign medals are. No problem then for all those who took part in that campaign, of whichever Command, receiving it. The reason why it was not struck is I suspect the same reason why a National Bomber Command Memorial has yet to be, what is now known as Political Correctness. Hopefully the time for the latter has arrived at last, the former seems far less likely to happen.

[Doctor Cruces]

Sorry Caz,

Of course, I mean the whole of the effort, bomber support et al, not just the bomber crews but all who helped the campaign.

Doc C

[Roland Pulfrew]

but the memorial should not omit the fact that there were 600,000 civilian victims.

Of course it should. It is a memorial to the crews of Bomber Command, not to anyone else. CF you are becoming one of the greatest wind-up merchants on PPRuNe, and I am not sure you pick worthy targets. :mad:

I am glad that The Daily Telegraph is supporting the plans.:D

I just hope we are talking about something like post number 123 in this (http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/296590-bomber-command-memorial-merged-7.html)

[CirrusF]

I am not "anti-military". Quite the opposite. I fully support the idea of a memorial - but it should not hide under the carpet the reality of history.

As the original article cited Although many of the aircrews would have preferred otherwise, there was little choice". So they themselves realised the inhumanity of what they were doing.

Maybe you should re-read Major Tim Collins' Iraq speech, or Archnbishop of Canterbury's post Falklands sermon, if you do not understand the importance of respecting and remembering the victims of war.

I'm also being practical. A memorial just to the crews will inevitably be subject to vandalism. The reason there has been no memorial until now is because it is politically controversial. What was regarded then as necessary would be regarded as a war-crime now. If we put up a memorial that can be interpreted by some as glorifying a war crime, it will be repeatedly vandalised.

So I suggest that it should also remember the victims, so that it becomes a memorial to a passage of history that demanded great heroism from our side and enormous suffering to the other side.

And I am not being "revisionist" about the number of victims - I got that figure from November4's posting:


However, by the end of the war the tactics of 'area bombing' cities - estimated to have caused up to 600,000 civilian casualties - had become increasingly controversial, particularly after some were reduced to rubble.

[Chugalug2]

Roland Pulfrew:

I just hope we are talking about something like post number 123 in this (http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/296590-bomber-command-memorial-merged-7.html)

Yes, as far as the figures go, as I understand that the intention is to have a heavy bomber crew, ie seven aircrew, standing in a circle.
No, as far as the +55,000 names are concerned, as the size of the site will not allow for it. That has to be the function of the "country memorial" discussed on the Memorial Thread, where space will allow for it.
It is the hope and intention of Bomber Command Heritage to preserve RAF Bicester, the site of 13OTU Bomber Command, still in its war time layout, as a Bomber Command Heritage Centre and home of the National Bomber Command Memorial bearing those names.

[Al R]

Cirrus: I'm also being practical. A memorial just to the crews will inevitably be subject to vandalism.

Then let them vandalise it, because those men died for the right to freedom of expression. If brave thugs throw paint over it, then we shall clean it off and we shall keep cleaning it off. What we must NOT do is allow the mindless antics of a few cretins to dictate how we conduct ourselves.

There is nothing wrong with remembering OUR dead in such a way. Frankly, and this might sound bad, I have no emotional connection with those who died at Dresden. I do have a connection with our lads though, those who clambered into ally tubes each night and left, never to return. However much I wish to god those people hadn't have died, I do not want my act of commemoration to be bundled up like some marketing nerd's wet dream because apparantly, thats how I am supposed to think.

[forget]

It is the hope and intention of Bomber Command Heritage to preserve RAF Bicester, the site of 13OTU Bomber Command, still in its war time layout, as a Bomber Command Heritage Centre and home of the National Bomber Command Memorial bearing those names.

:confused: Does the Bomber Command Association agree with this?

[Al R]

:=

Now now, I think you already know the answer to that one.

Does Bisto need permission?

[forget]

Does Bisto need permission?

I have no idea, but a connection with Bomber Command would help, and that means something much more than:

Although not used for active service Bicester retains:“… better than any other military airbase in Britain, the layout and fabric relating to pre-1930s military aviation…..


.... it comprises the best-preserved bomber airfield dating
from the period up to 1945…… It also comprises the best preserved and most
strongly representative of the bomber stations built as part of Sir Hugh
Trenchard’s 1920s Home Defence Expansion Scheme”. (English Heritage).

Says who? ......... "most strongly representative". With a grass strip.:bored:

[Roland Pulfrew]

Says who? ......... "most strongly representative". With a grass strip.

Forget, as you indicate, it was English Heritage!! RAF Bicester is almost pretty much the only station left anywhere that represents a station as built ie it didn't get developed further. Despite it only having grass runways the technical site is pretty much complete. Many stations were built with grass runways and later developed to add concrete runways. Therefore it can be described as "most strongly representative".

[forget]

English Heritage - yes, I understand that. I was wondering which particular aviation historical expert, and whether their research was as cavalier as their prose..

......... retains better than any other military airbase in Britain, the layout and fabric relating to pre-1930s military aviation…..

.... it comprises the best-preserved bomber airfield dating from the period up to 1945……

So which one is it?

[Hugh Spencer]

Maybe I can inject some ideas into this discussion as myself and my elder brother were actually involved in BCs campaign. The Nazis were ruthless. Every day we heard about terrible atrocities and beastialty carried out by their willing enthusiasts. BC had already helped Fighter Command in the Battle of Britain, a fact which many people don't know about. Something had to be done to prevent the Nazis from re-equipping the Luftwaffe and it all happen again. Bomber Command, at that time was the only answer. As young men we knew we were going to be called up and we chose a service which, although more attractive and different, we thought could deal knockout blows to the huge monster roaming the continent. The last thing we wanted was to be overrun by the Nazis. All young men knew that it was now or never, even though our lives could be lost. There was no alternative. The general public were overjoyed by the fact that the Nazis were going to get some of their own medicine. They eagerly listened to the radio about the previous nights bombers going out to attack. They cheered, they smiled and it all appeared to give them hope. It was all ghastly and horrible. Anybody who initiates a war is mad; it is a terrible way to behave but that was the only method we had. Talking was out of the question because Hitler, like so many other mad leaders since, had no intention in keeping any pacts that were made. I and my brother survived and I have been on this campaign since I retired 27 years ago.

[arandcee]

Hugh - I've only recently been researching a relative of mine who was a Canadian navigator on Halifaxes and, sadly, did not survive the war. I can't tell him how proud I am of him so I can, instead, thank you for your bravery and courage.

As for the memorial - well over due.

[Brewster Buffalo]

"Campaigners have won the struggle to raise funds for a £2million memorial in Regent's Park to honour the 55,000 who lost their lives during the war. "

Wouldn't it be better devoting these funds to the families of our military personnel killed or injured in the current campaigns?

Surely the statue of Arthur Harris can serve as a memorial for those who took part in the campaign.

[VinRouge]

Buffalo, this is a memorial that is over 60 years late.

If the government can afford to piss 500 billion up the wall to rescue corrupt banks, I am sure they can afford the equivalent of a few bob down the bottom of the sofa to do what they should be doing and providing the lads with adequate post-conflict treatment, be that physical or mental. It shouldn't even be up to charities.

[Chugalug2]

Forget:
Does the Bomber Command Association agree with this?

Not only do they agree, Forget, they have given it their moral support. Their Secretary, himself one of Harris's "Old Lags", accepted an invitation to visit Bicester. Shown the Watch Tower, he insisted on climbing to the very top, via its tightly wound spiral stairs to look out over the airfield (grass as you say, most were for a great deal of the war). He simply looked out in quiet contemplation, taken back as he said so many years. He was most moved though when taken to the opposite side of the airfield. The original Bomb Stores are there, together with the ancillary buildings such as the Fusing Huts. A peaceful country scene with some birds singing. "I've never known it to be so quiet", he said, "These were always such noisy and busy places!"
The BCA is obviously preoccupied now with the London Memorial, and the country one must wait its turn. In the meantime there is much to be done. BCH needs volunteers to help prepare for this inspiring project. The PPRuNe thread re Bicester is at:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/244999-help-save-raf-bicester.html
BCHs site is at:
Our Journey Together - Bomber Command Heritage Website (http://www.bc-heritage.org/)
You can register your support there, or PM me if you prefer.

[Al R]

Brewster: Wouldn't it be better devoting these funds to the families of our military personnel killed or injured in the current campaigns?


It needn't be an either/or. People will always support what they think appropriate and I am not being disrespectful to the memories of those who suffer in Iraq or Afghanistan (or the folk of Dresden) but the Bomber campaign was so bloody, fought so far away.. and at night that one of the reasons it has taken so long to be recognised is because it hasn't had the profile. Over 55,000 dead means that it has earned its right to be remembered in its own right - by contrast, we have lost 'just' 16,000 since the end of World War Two.

I would be sickened if anyone thought I was producing league tables and saying that one life was more important than another, but those figures put the sacrifice into perspective. On a connected note, Princess Anne is unveiling a memorial today and the son of SAC Gary Thompson RAF Regt is conducting a reading. His dad would be very proud of him.

BBC NEWS | UK | Princess Royal to unveil memorial (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7696668.stm)

Chuggers; good man - stick with it. :ok:

[cazatou]

Doctor Cruces

"the whole of the effort, bomber support et al"

Perhaps they should call it the "Aircrew Europe Star"??

[Hipper]

What is the purpose of a memorial, or a campaign medal?

I ask because I don't need a memorial to appreciate the sacrifices of other generations. I've read about them, seen tv programmes on them, and in the case of Bomber Command, am proud that my father flew a tour of thirty ops with them.

I also know that my father, and his wife, were not in the least interested in medals or memorials.

I'd rather we move on and have our own thoughts on the matter, and let others have theirs without forcing the issue.

I suppose I'm wrong?!!!

[Al R]

What about in 50/75/100/150 years time Hipper?

Don't we have a duty to those who died to ensure that people who come after us pause for thought and remember, and learn? Or does it all just fade away? Perhaps if we were forced to learn from our mistakes, we wouldn't half as many problems as we do.

[S'land]

S'land,

I don't know where you get your figure of "max 25000 Civilian German casualties from bombing" during WW2 came from.Sorry, but I misread the post before mine. Over the last couple of months I have been accosted by a number of idiots (British, I am afraid) who on learning that I am English and choose to live in Germany assume that I am pro Hitler/fascist. They then start to harangue me with the 'Dresden Massacre" and quote 500 to 600.000 deaths. I guess that I have just become over sensitive and somewhat defensive when I hear these figures. I was referring to the Dresden bombings only.

Having said that, I do believe that a memorial should bear the names of the 55.000 members of Bomber Command who were killed in action and not any victims. This should be a memorial to those who paid the ultimate price for the freedoms that we enjoy.

[cockney steve]

[QUOTE][Don't we have a duty to those who died to ensure that people who come after us pause for thought and remember, and learn? Or does it all just fade away? Perhaps if we were forced to learn from our mistakes, we wouldn't half as many problems as we do./QUOTE]

Sadly, it appears judging by post-WW2 conflicts, that "learning" is not on the agenda of politicians.

If there were no military volunteers and conscripts refused to cooperate, there'd be no wars.

All politicians with scores to settle , should be put in an arena with sufficient hand-launched missiles to settle it. The general public would pay for entry to this spectacle and maybe purchase decaying fruit/vegetables to hurl at the combatants.

back on subject....those who have known, or are related, or have been/are in the "business " (military) want to honour their comrades.
Those of us who are here because of their gallantry and self-sacrifice, owe this token of respect, this pitiful memorial.

As has been noted, greedy "bankers" have cleared out the tills of vastly larger sums that this...they wouldn't have had the opportunity to trouser these fortunes without those sacrifices .
How many of THEM have even given a moment's thought to the ramifications of the "poppy day" that once a year inconveniences them.


There are many injustices on many levels. I hope your objective is achieved.

[Lister Noble]

I'm not in the military ,but am a private pilot.
There is much support for this memorial in the Guardian editorial today.
I live in East Anglia and without the actions of the RAF bomber command I'm sure that the way of life around here would be a lot different.
We must not forget that the US Army Airforce also had terrible losses, but there is a memorial to them at each of the airfields they flew from during WW2,and these are visited regularly by the remining aircrew and also by their younger relations.
The loss of RAF bomber aircrew life was horrendous,and without doubt the proposed memorial will remind future generations just how much we owe those young men.
I visit by car or fly into the remains of old WW2 airfields,often being the only person there, and the feeling of what happened all those years ago is almost something you can touch.
Lister:)

[Hipper]

What about in 50/75/100/150 years time Hipper?

Of course that is the real point of a memorial I suppose. I'm moved when I look at the WW1 memorials in most towns. However, I'm not sure one memorial, in London presumably, will achieve much. I guess there are other monuments to sacrifices of other units but I can't recall ever seeing them.

The best memorial to Bomber Command is the flying Lancaster. It won't go on for ever but the sight and sound of the Lanc effects a whole range of people as it crosses the country. Other memorials are museum displays, books and films, and grave stones throughout Europe. Finally there are the archives at Kew and other places. That's not to mention Runnymede.

For me that's enough for now and the future.

Don't we have a duty to those who died to ensure that people who come after us pause for thought and remember, and learn? Or does it all just fade away? Perhaps if we were forced to learn from our mistakes, we wouldn't half as many problems as we do.

Agreed. Unfortunately it's human nature to sometimes not learn from the mistakes of others. Surely though, the mistake in this case was appeasement in the 1930's, or perhaps even the Versaille Treaty. I can't see a memorial to Bomber Command changing that.

Anyway, if there is a lesson to be learned from Bomber Command's efforts in WW2 it is that the bomber cannot alone win the war. This lesson has still not been learned. But that's another matter!

I should stress, I have nothing but admiration for the aircrew of Bomber Command. I've read a fair bit on the subject and will still never grasp what it was like to be in a bomber at night over Germany in WW2. And I'm glad I can't.

[The Adjutant]

I for one am all in favour of the memorial. My personal view is that this is well overdue. The boys of Bomber Command were doing their job as sent down from their commanders, and they did it well. They knew the losses, but they kept on with the job, in 42/43 there was often no end in sight, but they still kept on none the less. Part of my family was in a German occupied European country throughout the war and they have told me of the hope and moral support they obtained by the noise of our bombers flying over night after night. That alone kept them going when food was short and they dare not leave the house for risk of being picked up and sent away for forced labour.
I see little difference in killing 100,000 Germans over a long period by dropping 1000 lb bombs on them and killing the same number of Japs in one atomic explosion, except that the atomic bomb was more efficient. From my point of view what was done to Dresden was a valid act of war, and should have been done elsewhere in Germany as often as possible. There is no shame on the boys of Bomber Command for doing what they had to do, in fact they should be given all the medals we can produce, and those still alive be given huge pensions and treated like the heros they are.

[VinRouge]

Anyone wanting to put the scale of losses into perspective needs to look at Linton's small museum to the Canadian and other commonwealth bomber crews; one picture is burned into my memory; an entire station annual photograph with red crosses through the faces of everyone bar about 1% on the photo.

It was taken early on in the 40's; I just cant see how these young lads could climb into their aircraft, time after time, bearing in mind how futile it must have seemed at the time.

Truly horrendous times. And ones that certainly must not be forgot.

[Al R]

The Adj said: I for one am all in favour of the memorial. My personal view is that this is well overdue. The boys of Bomber Command were doing their job as sent down from their commanders, and they did it well. They knew the losses, but they kept on with the job.

Agreed.

The irony is that the Bicester campaign to remember our aircrews and groundcrews was started by some civvies (and I don't mean that in anything other than a tone of admiration). They have held their focus for longer than most and when we go there one day (hopefully) to remember the sacrifice of our servicemen, we should be grateful for their efforts. They haven't allowed themselves to be deviated and their quiet and methodical single minded focus on Bomber Command's behalf is an example for us. This is their website:

Our Journey Together - Bomber Command Heritage Website (http://www.bc-heritage.org/)

"Doing what we can.. to remember all those that gave so much for the British and Commonwealth effort during World War II".