Approach question

[modelman]

You are approaching an airfield from the north,rwy 27 LH in use,OHJ prohibited,another airfield 5 miles to the west,noise sensitive town to the east.Airfield is a/g.
Best/safest way to join,bet I get more than one opinion?

MM

[Spitoon]

What's published?

[julian_storey]

I'm with the previous poster.

Check your Pooleys :-)

[tuscan]

Is this hypothetical and with no published approach?

If not,. check with the field, if yes there are several options.

Join downwind lh, 5 miles is a long way but if in doubt get on frequency with the other field and check their traffic. I am assuming they are flying left hand circuits for a reason and would have consulted the other field regarding this.

You could go further East to avoid the town and come in on long final.

I will sit back now and see what happens, there are other options and Im sure they will arrive shortly:ok:.

[tacpot]

I'd aim to join the circuit on the crosswind leg (from the north). This would be exactly where you would be after the descent on the deadside of a standard OHJ - with the Pilot in the LH seat having a good view of the runway in use.

[Whirlygig]

Depends where I want to end up and in which direction the wind is. :ok: :}

Cheers

Whirls

[modelman]

Tis indeed hypothetical but not unlikely.
Have seen some lively debate here on crosswind joins,presumably join crosswind over the numbers?
Probably would have been my choice with plenty of r/t for the benefit of others in the cct.
Any more?
MM

[tacpot]

A crosswind join over the numbers is part of the standard ovehead join. I wouldn't go overboard on the R/T though. "G-XX, Airfield in sight, joining cross-wind." should be sufficient. Much more important to listen out and look to ensure you know where the other circuit traffic is. Joining crosswind, your conflicting traffic will be either taking off, or be on the downwind leg. If you are listening out, you should be able to integrate with the other traffic easily.

tp

[possel]

The least amount of noise is created by the least manouvering around the airfield so, depending on traffic and anything noise-sensitive on the ground, you could do a RIGHT base join for 27.

I have done this sometimes, having asked A/G if they minded and usually when there is no other circuit traffic.

Once, I was given this without asking at a fairly large airport with full ATC, and he put me in direct conflict with circuit traffic! I ended up orbiting over the town on right base at 800ft.

[BackPacker]

It also depends on the country. Netherlands specifies a 90 degree join onto mid-downwind (from the outside of the circuit, not from the overhead) as the only way to join a circuit at an uncontrolled field - although sometimes straight-ins are also allowed.

To reach that point you have to fly the long way around or, if weather and airspace allows, fly well above the ATZ, overhead the field, to that point.

UK-style OHJs, or base/crosswind joins are not appreciated here.

[Jumbo Driver]

As tacpot has said, the obvious and safest way is crosswind from the deadside (N), over the upwind end of 27 to join the LH circuit downwind. As well as being safe, that's also what any other aircraft in the circuit would be expecting you to do.

To join right base in a LH circuit is both unsafe and contrary to Rule 12 of RoA. It is not permitted unless there is an ATC Unit which authorises it.


JD
:)

[IO540]

The least noisy way to join is a continuous descent onto the final, straight in.

[JohnGV]

Hm.... unless i do not understand british air law at all... but why cant you just overfly the airfield to the west at like 2500agl or take an even wider berth to the west avoiding it entirely and just join on downwind standard?????? obviously after a quick descent to circuit height

[englishal]

I'd aim to join the circuit on the crosswind leg (from the north). This would be exactly where you would be after the descent on the deadside of a standard OHJ - with the Pilot in the LH seat having a good view of the runway in use.
Ditto.....Over the upwind numbers at cct height left turn to downwind etc.....

[wombat13]

Centre line join at 2000 ft, lose 1000 decending on crosswind, turn down wind at circuit height (all assuming ch is 1000ft).

[Jumbo Driver]

Apart from that being totally non-standard in UK, wombat13, how does it fit in with the "OHJ prohibited" condition of the original post ... ?

... or are you joking ... ?

JD
:hmm:

[JohnGV]

Can anyone rule out my method?? I happen to think it would be the most obviously easy option????????

[JohnGV]

Also Wombat13... as far as canadian regulations go, a descent should NEVER be performed whilst overflying anyway, i would presume for safety reasons this should be the same in UK

[modelman]

Before posting this,I would have opted for crosswind over the upwind nos at cct ht into downwind a la OHJ (failing any joining advice when PPr'ing) but interesting to see all opinions.Seems nothing is black and white in these type of things.

MM

[wombat13]

JD, no I am not joking. I can see why standard OHJ would not work if there was another field nearby. CLJ gets around this problem. Check your Pooleys for Sleap airfield. As for your comment it is "totally non-standard", I really don't know what that means. It is a legit (and practiced) way of approaching a field with the circumstances described.

JohnGV, welcome to the UK and busy airspace.

Wombat13

[Jumbo Driver]

Sorry, wombat13, in my opinion that is still not a standard join.

Anyway, your suggestion of joining overhead at 2000' seems the same as an OHJ to me, except it doesn't involve using the deadside; that's why I considered it outside the criteria of "OHJ prohibited" as posed in the original question. Also, how precisely do you get to the position to start that procedure if you are approaching from the North, all turns are to the left, and there is an "avoid" to the East? Quite apart from the safety angle, isn't it all extremely cumbersome compared with a conventional join, that is far simpler and that everyone else will be expecting?

I can well understand a procedure being specific to a particular airfield (e.g. when the deadside is unavailable due to gliding) but just because you are using it there, that does not make it a "standard procedure". In the event it is required, then I would expect pilots to be properly pre-briefed to both use this procedure and therefore (this is the important bit) to be expecting others to be joining the circuit in this way. Safety comes down to behaving in a considerate and expected way towards others.

If you pitch up at a strange strip in the middle of nowhere, see other traffic in the circuit, and then join in the way you suggest, that would be neither considerate nor safe in my opinion. Descending on the centreline over departing traffic or descending crosswind over other traffic which may be joining in a more conventional manner seems frankly to be bordering on the reckless to me. It is totally different from the situation where that procedure is the required and known procedure at that airfield. That is what I meant by non-standard.

Its the same principle as arriving at a civil airfield, callings "initials", then executing a run-and-break arrival. Perfectly OK if other aircraft are expecting it - and are fully familiar with what you are doing - but nevertheless a totally non-standard join at a civil airfield.


JD
:)