What is going on in FRA??

[lasernigel]

Flying Lufthansa a lot recently. Came back from Casablanca the other week on my way to Manchester no problem.
On Monday I turned up for the last flight and the gate number was B32.
Went through passport control and then security. Made my way down to the gate where B31-33 are. Bugger me another security check. That was two in the space of 100meters.
Asked a security person why, got the answer...airport policy. Same question to Lufthansa girl at desk and got an indignant look and was told to shut up and stop questioning airport policy.:ouch:
Why are we Brits being picked out for this sort of treatment??:confused::*

[Skipness One Echo]

Job creation as McDonalds are not hiring.

[Michael SWS]

We had the same treatment at Munich recently, en route from London to Tirana. Two further security checks, including the X-raying of our hand luggage, while transferring between planes.

We were told it was due to the UK not being part of Schengen - but I thought Schengen had nothing to do with security?

[raffele]

To be fair Michael SWS, one of those security checks was because you were in transit.

The extra cautious security is a bit alarming however. What us Brits done now?

[VAFFPAX]

The Schengen Agreement has everything to do with transit. Someone with ILtR in the UK will still require a visa to travel to the continent, or transit through one of its airports that requires transit visas (CPH is one, AMS is another). The same is generally not the case vice versa, unless the pax is from a country that is required to have a UK visa (Commonwealth is generally not an issue as 3-month visas are granted at immigration on entry).

In Barcelona and Porto you are also required to undergo two security checks, although not with x-ray. If you travel internally (i.e. within the UK) with a connection to the continent, you are also screened twice, once for domestic security, once for security to the continent).

The US and the TSA pretty much do this based on passport. If you are from any country other than the US, especially those from Africa, Latin America, Asia (Japan excl), you will be pulled over for 'random' inspection, plus a secondary inspection at the gate (and boy, if your boarding pass was not marked by TSA, you will have an almighty rumpus at the gate).

S.

[smith]

What us Brits done now?

Active presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, 7/7 tube bombings, 21/7 attempted bombing, liquid bombers, shooting of Jean Chales de Menesez, close ally to USA, Glasgow Airport and London nightclub bombers, shoe bomber, Exeter bomber ........ apart from that absolutely nothing!!

[Final 3 Greens]

What us Brits done now?

The British Government does impoase extra security (e.g. boarding pass checks at the door of British ailines) and it's spokesmen do keep saying how dangerous times are (e.g. Lord West recently.)

And the UK is not a Schengen signatory.

[viktor inox]

It is not a transit issue. Departed from FRA last Tuesday night to IST. Passed "normal" security check (laptop out, jacket off, belt off, shoes off, watch off, etc.), then got dressed again and passed passport control. Down the escalators and another bl**dy security check. When I asked about the person responsible for this insanity who would accept my complaint, I was told that as a German taxpayer I had no recourse.

Well, at least the last lot who gave us such brainless stop-and-search checks had names.... Himmler, Heydrich, Goebbels, Schellenberg. And their address was the Reichssicherheitshauptamt. Now, it's an anonymous apparatus working against you.

[Capot]

If they have a gate change at FRA, they march the passengers (100+ when I saw it done) back through the "insecure" lounge area, and then bypass the first security check queue by simply herding people through a door beside the checkpoint, without going through the search or X-ray.

Any who protests at this absurdity, comments too loudly to a neighbour or even laughs in a particularly sarcastic way, is threatened with being offloaded for being disruptive. Several of us were so threatened.

[VAFFPAX]

Viktor, unfortunately Germany is a bit schizophrenic where its love-hate affair with the US is concerned. On the one hand they want to be their own nation, on the other they'll bend over backwards to assist the US with anything they get asked. The whole terrorist era in the seventies and eighties didn't help the paranoia much.

IST is Turkey, which is NOT an EU country or a Schengen signatory, so I wouldn't be surprised at a secondary check.

S.

[viktor inox]

VAFFPAX, I was on my way to IST, not back from it.

Anyway, I did not notice any Heckler & Koch or Walther shop between the first and second security check, so where would I pick any weapon from?

[VAFFPAX]

Doesn't matter if you're on the way there or back... you are departing EU/Schengen country. When I fly ex-BCN or ex-OPO to non-EU (i.e. near African) locations, I am also made to do two security checks.

As for the HK comment - It's not about what you may possibly buy, but what you may be given. There are people who can get past the first security point, but not the second (different privileges). I've had that in Africa where I could go airside in the Terminal, but not actually step onto the tarmac outside (i.e. couldn't go past departure gates). A second check makes sure you don't have something that shouldn't make it past security.

S.

[viktor inox]

VAFFPAX, I see you are trying hard to find a logical explanation, but there is none.

I use FRA twice or more monthly to fly to BOM, DEL, or MAA (all outside the Schengen territory). I never encounter a second check when doing so.

[ATNotts]

FRA has been doing this for a long time. I used to travel regularly on LH from NUE via FRA to BHX. Because the UK isn't a signatory to Schengen, flight to UK used to wind up boarding next to departures for such unsavoury destinations as Israel - and I wondered if this over to top security wasn't in some way due to the "company" which we were forced to keep, in the way of the destinations of adjacent aircraft.

Anyway, being outside Schengen makes arriving and departing a more longwinded process. How about starting a petition get get our government to sign up - soon! I for one am fed up being treated as a second class citizen within the EU.

[rjc54n]

They did this (second security check) for all BA flights from DUS for 3 years or more in departure area B. Dammed annoying it was too but I never figured it out. Then, seemingly overnight a couple of years ago, normality again. Flew FlyBe from there today via departures C and still only the one check.

Now my memory is hazy on this but I'm pretty sure that BA used to be two checks but the same route on LH was just the one - but I'm happy to stand corrected....

[nivsy]

Sorry if its a daft question - but why is the UK not part of the Schengen agreement?

What makes "the Island" so special when as part of the EEC we have to endure the likes of Brussels telling us the fishing constraints that Scotland for example has to implement (potentially) yet we seem to be treated somewhat differently when flying between Europe and the "golden shores" of Blighty.

Nivsy

[Final 3 Greens]

Nivsy

The UK is not a member of Schengen because it chose not to join.

Of course, given the high integrity of the UK borders and the very controlled nature of immigration, one can fully understand why this is the case :}

[RevMan2]

AFAIK (or recollect), secondary security checks only for UK or US flights. (Higher risk level = higher security level)

Of course, if they're departing from an area shared by other gates (UK flights from the dungeons in B Concourse for remote position departures, frinstance), then everyone gets the benefit.

To be honest, it's never bothered me.

The security people aren't as aggressively obnoxious (or as cerebrally challenged) as their UK or US counterparts, the process works smoothly, never missed a flight yet

[VAFFPAX]

nivsy, the reason is simple... If the UK had agreed to all Schengen requirements (it's signed up to some, but not all, including the immigration control agreement), it would've been forced to apply Schengen requirements to everyone, including Commonwealth countries (like many African countries, the Asian subcontinent etc). The Commonwealth was still bigger (and still is) than the EEA at the time, so it was better politically to put the border control at all points to the continent, rather than include the UK as a whole in the Schengen area and leave the rest of the Commonwealth in the cold.

It was a political decision, something that does make sense looking back at the political climate at the time, but considering recent changes in the UK's stance on immigration, doesn't anymore.

S.

[radeng]

FRA is where the security goon insisted on confiscating a 4 and 2 BA spanner from me. As if I could take an Airbus apart with it! Twerps.

[PleasureFlyer]

Did FRA-GVA today, gate B30, and had the 2 security checks as well, had just got repacked from the first one. First time through FRA T1, anyone else think its a dump of a terminal, or is it just me?

Sorry, another point, not having a go..... my GVA-FRA-GVA trip in the last 2 days was my first time on LH, crew very good, attentive etc, but what a difference in attitude to cabin security compared to BA (who I normally fly with wherever I happen to be going). People with ipods etc turned on all the time, hand bagage kept on spare seats instead of being stowed for T/O and landing, not even a seatbelt check after the safety demo. Am I being paranoid? (I'm always a good boy, listen to demo, do what I'm told etc :8)

[nivsy]

Vaffpax, Thank you. I think I fully understand.

Nivsy

[viktor inox]

Since this thread opened, I have been paying a bit more attention to the fundamentals underlying security checks at FRA. The other day, departing for BLR, there was only a single check - as usual. So, there is no connection between Schengen and non-Schengen states when it comes to single or double security checks.

However, I was surprised that men are without exception asked to remove jackets, whereas women can pass through wearing heavy trouser suits. Logic?

[EC-ILS]

The rest of the workld thinks you Brits are a bit mad and dare I say they arnt far wrong :oh:

Im from Ireland and we are subject to the same checks! Very annoying.

[TJW]

It's been a while since I flew CGN-LGW or STR-LHR a couple times a year, but from what I remember being told at the time, the extra checks on flights to the UK were because the list of prohibited items wrt hand luggage is longer than for other destinations in Europe. (can't remember the items, though. Amount of liquids, maybe?)

The first check that everybody goes through is done to normal standards, and if you fly to the UK, you go through a second check before the gate.

[parabellum]

Slightly off topic but: My first trip to Germany as a civilian I went with an old hand who warned me about the inadvisability of getting upset with the Bundesgrenzschutz, the German border police, who man/woman both immigration and customs. They carry guns and handcuffs, wear green and beige uniforms and have no sense of humour at all and are nothing at all like immigration and customs in the UK.
I mention this just in case any of you regulars get so fed up with German security one day that you sound off to one of the Bundesgrenzschutz, better not!:=

[Final 3 Greens]

They carry guns and handcuffs, wear green and beige uniforms and have no sense of humour at all and are nothing at all like immigration and customs in the UK.

That's true.

In 30 years of flying in and out of Germany, I've never received any other than highly professional and courteous treatment.

[dubh12000]

Actually I reckon FRA have that particular area laid out pretty well. The B30 to 34 gates are non-schengen, but also consider that transit pax, like Air China, come in upstairs there, so that security would be their one and only check.

Off topic.......anyone know if there is there a lounge in Terminal B that takes Priority Pass?

[parabellum]

"In 30 years of flying in and out of Germany, I've never received any other than highly professional and courteous treatment."

Yes, I agree, I was merely warning people who didn't know that they were far more than the UK versions of civvies in uniform and it would be unwise to 'have a go' at them if one was having a bad day!.

[viktor inox]

Finally, the Germans have realized that the hyped security checks involving the confiscation of Granny's toothpaste is the result of a scam involving Islamists who have been paid by duty free shops worldwide.

Luftfahrt: Ohrfeigen für den Kontrolleur - Reise - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,591279,00.html)

[Mr Quite Happy]

I've lived in DE since 2000. The FRA double search is not new. Its been in place since 9/11. I don't think it is FRA specific though, I think it is all DE.

As another poster pointed out, its the UK's terrorist links (!). Or at least that's what I was told 7 years ago.

IIRC, its UK, US and Israel flights that get the 'special' treatment. If you had forgotten, DE is home to several million Muslims, most terrorist cells picked up have German and particularly FRA links and of course the lockerbie bomb passed through FRA too. The German and Brit authorities are very aware of this.