PPL RT Practical

[Okavango]

Can anyone please shed any light on what to expect in the PPL RT practical examination? I've recently completed my solo QXC and not sure if it's pretty much a formality after that experience, or is there likely to be various test cases thrown in that one experiences in exceptional circumstances?

[Arenigltd]

I assume they're all the same. I did mine at Wolverhampton.

The examiner will give you a ficticious aviation map with a route on it for you to pretend to fly. You sit in one room with headset, PTT and a box with a frequency selector switch. Basically, you do the whole route from engine start and taxi, through MATZ and airspace penetrations, Danger area crossings and landings away etc, with your examiner being in an adjacent room being the controller at each location. If you forget to, or change to the wrong channel, of course, he will not answer you etc.

You get preparation time before the practical test - ie examiner gives you the map and your route instruction sheet and a pencil and paper for you to make notes. Don't try to write ALL your calls down, just prompts is best. Half an hour I think the prep time is.

Anyway, I found it hugely enjoyable. And the examiner is not really out to trip you up or fail you, just to help you get your certificate. If it is available to you, pay for a couple of hours practical instruction before hand. It gets you right in the mood.

Good luck with it.

[jaycee58]

Have you seen CAA Safety Senses leaflet 22b? If not, it's well worth a look. At the end is an example of the sort of exchanges you'll get.

You can find the document here:-

Safety Sense Leaflet 22: Radiotelephony | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1176)

[DavidHoul52]

Derek Davidson does a one day course in Dorset - training as well as the test. If you have some experience of RT it only takes a couple of hours.

[CMDR114]

If you want someone closer then you couldn't do better than Steve Wilkes who is in Suffolk. 01787 269820.

[AMEandPPL]

If it is available to you, pay for a couple of hours practical instruction before hand. It gets you right in the mood

Wholeheartedly agree with that idea. Also covers the things that one hopes you have NOT encountered on your QXC (eg Maydays, airways, etc).
The thread starter's location was Lancs, so Malcolm Dobson might be closer. Operates at Leeds/Bradford and at Barton.

MALCOLM DOBSON INSTRUCTOR SERVICES
Offers: http://www.cityairportmanchester.com/images/tick.gif Radio Telephony Courses
Tel: 0113 258 6306 / 07770 842 143

[olicana]

I did my RT training with Malcolm Dobson fairly recently, you will not meet a nicer more helpful chap. However the RT practical is not a formality and Malcolm treats it with the reverence it deserves.

My advice would be to give him a call before you think about taking a test.
Malcolm will tell you all you need to know and probably insist on giving you some training. I cannot stress enough this training will be worth its weight in gold.
Malcolms' number is on the Multiflight website

[Lister Noble]

I had a couple of 1 hour training sessions before doing mine,it is a great help.
You will get a Pan Pan or Mayday relay call.
Good luck
Lister:)

[avonflyer]

I would agree that a practice session is well worthwhile the exam it a little more formal than some of the procedure you hear in "real life" and you may have picked up some bad habits out in the field...

[don't_ask_me]

Another Malcolm Dobson fan here :ok:

Nice guy - He'll get you through the R/T practical - and probably with a few political discussions on the way :8.

Formally, he runs the R/T theory on the first Sunday of every month and the R/T practical session on the second Sunday of every month (at Leeds). The actual test can be scheduled for whenever you like. But give him a ring.

don't_ask

[AMEandPPL]

Another Malcolm Dobson fan here

Yes, that's right, I think "fan" is the correct word ! When I first posted his name here a little earlier, what I didn't mention was that Malcolm also taught me to fly, as well as my R/T licence ! His name first appears in the first of my logbooks on 17 July 1982 ! ! To this day it's still a great pleasure any time I have the good fortune to meet him.

[2high2fastagain]

Having got used to the real UK airspace during my training, I found the fictitous exam scenario rather more demanding than I expected. I'd recommend some mock dry runs beforehand and a bit of tuition.

[WALSue]

I did my RT in Barton. I imagine if your Lancs based that may be an easier option for you (?)

Took a 5 week course which basically went through a basic script.
On test day, you are given time to prepare. Route where you may need to cross a MATZ, divert and have a Mayday/Pan (think I had engine failure)

Just take your time, scribble down some notes before you make each call and taking a coin in to trace your route helps too!

[noblue]

My examiner allowed me to use any callsign of my choice - this really helps to avoid silly cockups. The fictitious airfields made it all a bit more strange than I was expecting, but there was nothing impossible. I just made sure that I downloaded and digested CAP413 fully before presenting myself for the test.

[BackPacker]

Another tip. You have some prep time after receiving the briefing papers. Use this time to make a plog, complete with radio frequencies, timings, headings and everything like you would do for a real flight. This means that all the info you need is in a familiar place and format, so that you don't have to search for it in the briefing papers. It also means you've already "flown" the flight in your mind, in a structured way, before starting the exam.

During my exam that 1-page plog and the sketchy map was all I needed. Not the multi-page briefing.

[Retired Redcap]

I took my RT with Malcolm Dobson at Barton. Course is normally the last 2 Sundays in the month with the practical shortly afterwards.

[Whopity]

Can anyone please shed any light on what to expect in the PPL RT practical examination? I've recently completed my solo QXC
Yet another example of poor instruction! By the time you complete the QXC you should have completed all your radio work, to make the flying easier. Your instructor should have gone through all of the syllabus items listed here: SRG1171: Flight Radiotelephony (Communications) Training Syllabus - Training Record | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=998)
Malcolm Dobson's RT Course lasts about 16 hours, about the time it takes to cover all the items, not the 2 or 3 hours most people do. No wonder RT is so poor!

[Nibbler]

What can be expected.

You'll get a fictional map with a route taking you from taxi to land with tasks to perform on the way. During the 'trip' you will change frequencies along the way - these are labelled A to F in the instructions and match the dial on the equipment you will be using.

You are not allowed to take notes in with you. You are allowed paper and pen. Exam nerves can make your mind go blank so know the format of all the calls - I wrote them all down as soon as I sat down for the exam. Pay particular attention to the PANPAN and MAYDAY calls as it is unacceptable to get either of these wrong.

The order may vary but this is a list of calls I had to make during my exam.

- Tuned and obtained ATIS (you may have to ask for 'radio check and airfield information' if at a RADIO or INFORMATION airfield)
- Changed to ground Requested taxi
- Advised ready for departure, read back hold and departure instructions
- Changed to tower, read back a 'line up after' instruction, clear for take off and turn out instructions
- Changed to radar, called clear of zone, requested FIS
- Requested / changed to enroute LARS, requested FIS and MATZ penetration
- Red light on equipment flashed, called in a PANPAN (rough engine), cancelled PANPAN after decent
- Red light on equipment flashed, relayed a MAYDAY message (forced landing), cancelled MAYDAY
- Requested / changed frequency to enroute airfield, class A Special VFR transit call with 2 reporting points
- Requested / changed to destination airfield - overhead join with all calls made to final and then, after aircraft crashed, go around call and diversion to alternate
- Requested / changed to diversion (class D) airfield - ATIS obtained, call to Approach with diversion mentioned. Held outside airspace, read back specific entry instructions.
- Changed to tower, held on base, called finals
- Changed for ground and taxi

Stay calm! You are expected to 'fly' route so you have plenty of time to write your next call down and even say it to yourself before you press the talk button again.

The MAYDAY message relay - be ready with your pen and always wait a moment to see if there is a response from the ground station before you jump in. If you have already noted down the format of the MAYDAY call then you can write the information next to each bit which makes it easy to note and to relay. Be ready to write down what the ground station and the MAYDAY aircraft says as you might have to relay messages both ways.

Stay calm! Speak clearly and slowly, don't rush your calls.

If you make a mistake don't let it go, say 'correction' and make the right call.

I hope this helps, good luck - remember fear and panic are the enemy of good RT.

[DuncanF]

It's a few years since I did my radio test, but do they have a third party chipping in these days on the Mayday/Pan sections with helpful advice like "you're on guard!" for that added realism? :rolleyes:

[WALSue]

Yep, I got some helpful comments like that on my test
I could also take in a 'prompting sheet'
I've been talking to someone who has just taken his practical and was told he'd been saying too much, there was no need for him to mentioning where going via and ETAs

[BackPacker]

there was no need for him to mentioning where going via

Don't take that as a literal fact. You need to find a suitable middle ground. Obviously if you're doing a long flight with 50 waypoints, there's no need to mention them all. But at the same time a call like "VFR from Manston to Islay, request crossing" will require a controller with perfect geographical knowledge to assess the impact of your crossing on his CTR or MATZ.

So as far as I'm concerned, include those "via" points that are relevant to the controller, no more no less.

[clareprop]

It's quite a time since I did mine but I recall that at the end, I was Speedbird 1, number 10 for finals at Old Warden......

I think it was at that point I realised I'd passed:)

[liam548]

About to do my practical RT. I presume by now the examinations are based on the new service titles, Basic service, traffic service etc etc?

:)

Liam

[Keygrip]

Yes, Liam, they are - or at least *should* be if done correctly.

[cats_five]

I did mine as a 1-day crammer with a senior ATCO. As a glider pilot rather than GA I found the practical unnerving - by the end I was like a rabbit in headlights and about to fall apart. Breezed the written paper but I'm good at that sort of thing. Found an incorrect answer while I was about it. :)

I didn't get to make a MAYDAY or PAN PAN - I got to relay a MAYDAY.

I got the licence on the grounds it will never get easier, and whilst an RT licence currently is required for glider pilots it might be in the future, and it might be useful in the meantime. However I need to find a way of practising it and as someone who avoids CAS like the plague....

Someone who did it the year before me said that if you get told about conflicting traffic and asked if you can see it, saying no is the prelude to getting bombarded with instructions to deconflict the two of you! Easier to say yes. Of course don't do that the real world unless you really can see it. :eek:

[Whopity]

I didn't get to make a MAYDAY or PAN PAN - I got to relay a MAYDAY. Relaying a Mayday if done correctly, is exactly the same as making a Mayday call! All the RTF Tests include both, so either you forgot to make a PAN PAN, or failed to read the instructions correctly. Either way that's a "FAIL" according to the Examiners Manual.

[cats_five]

I must have done the relayed MAYDAY correctly as I passed. I remember waiting and listening to see if anyone else is talking to them - would jumping in immediately be a pass or a fail?

[liam548]

I must have done the relayed MAYDAY correctly as I passed. I remember waiting and listening to see if anyone else is talking to them - would jumping in immediately be a pass or a fail?

You wouldnt jump in immediately in real life would you so presume the test wants to see the same.

[screetch]

i had to bring this old thread back to life. I am trying to prepare for the RT practical exam. I have taken my skill test and this is the only bit left. Now I have a few hours in my logbook and everything in the test should not be anything new to me expected maybe controlled airspace and SVFR.

What is your opinion, would anybody without much prep be able to pass the RT Exam?? It should be easier as you do not have to fly the plane but just pay attention to the radio...
Do many of you take the test before finishing the flight training (this i would deem harder since you are still learning the basics.) ?
Should i rather spend more days reading the cap413 to be able to reply word by word as outlined in the book?
I know my RT is not bad and had no complaints from instructors etc or over the radio. I also know there will be calls I have not had been confronted with yet and thus the reply might not be word perfect.

Is it just a VFR flight? How much controlled airspace etc will be part of the exam? :ugh: I think I am getting myself a bit too nervous..


There is a sample VFR flight in the CAP413 in chapter 10.. would this be the complete test flight??

[Redbird72]

I would definitely recommend revising the examples at the end of Safety sense leaflet 22 (Safety Sense Leaflet 22: Radiotelephony | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1176)) as some of them bear an uncanny resemblance to my RT test!

If you're confident with your RT already, you may not need any practical training, but an opportunity to practice using the exam equipment may help as it's not at all like a real radio.

Good Luck :ok:

[oversteer]

As long as you know the all stuff in CAP 413 Supplement 3 you should be fine - you'll get "lost" (QDM/bearing etc) and probably have to relay a mayday or have some sort of pan-pan ("engine running rough..") and transit plenty of CAS ..

I managed it as a glider pilot - I found it difficult to get my head around the different handovers as radio use in the gliding world is very casual.. good luck

[mixsfour]

I did mine between QXC and skills test. I think it's fair to say you will get a Mayday or Pan. I was told these carry a hefty proportion of the marks so practice them to get them word perfect. And when the emergency's cancelled (as it will be otherwise you can't continue the flight!) remember to call up and say something like. "G-XX, engine now running fine, continuing to <original destination> cancel Mayday/Pan"

Also think about radio failure (if you get no response go back to the last frequency for a radio check then explain there was no response from <Wherever Radar on 123.450> please could they call them up and see if there's a problem).

Read the exam briefing carefully and consider if there's any part of the route where you'll be with a LARS and should ask for traffic or deconfliction instead of basic service.

You will almost certainly get a MATZ penetration, ATZ transit or SVFR clearance.

Good luck!

[Mark1234]

I did the computerised one *very* recently - part of the requirement to get a JAA one off the back of my existing ICAO one. Much of it has been said already, but I'd offer the following:

I was given a brief which contained a 'plog', however, the computerised plane 'flies' its self along the route - it uses time compression in the quiet bits (which stops as soon as you press the PTT). That means calculated timings are irrelevant. You're expected to use /set QFE/QNH and transponder codes as you go, including correct (standby-change-on) use of the transponder. There was an 'emergency' scenario and a zone transit in mine, as well as the potential for diversion, QDM's, mayday relays and the like.

It also means that the whole thing is quite compressed - Being honest I found I was a little pressured - not flat out, but it was reasonably intense. My examiner advised me to keep it simple, and talk to the minimum number of people - sound advice indeed. I was also advised if it took me more than 10 mins to 'plan', I was overthinking it - I concur there too - writing down too much stuff (I did) is just confusing, I would stick to who, when and initial calls - if you can't regurgitate the responses fairly easily, it's perhaps premature to take the test. A dry run would be worth its weight in gold.

[screetch]

I have a question about the call for a training fix with a D&D station

(1) you call 121.5 with "London Centre, G-XXX, request practice pan"
would you than say:
Practice Pan, Practice Pan, Practice Pan, G-XXX, request training fix

or would you say:
or Training Fix, Training Fix, Training Fix , G-XXX request trainign fix

[Pull what]

Practice Pan, Practice Pan, Practice Pan, G-XXX, request training fix

That is what i would say- I am not saying this is word perfect

[BillieBob]

I am not saying this is word perfect Far from it, in fact.

The correct call to request a training fix is "Training Fix, Training Fix, Training Fix, G-ABCD".

The correct call to request a Practice Pan is "PRACTICE PAN, PRACTICE PAN, PRACTICE PAN, London Centre, G-ABCD".

See CAP413, Chapter 8, paragraphs 1.9 and 1.8 respectively.

[Whopity]

Radiotelephony messages are categorised so as to give an order of priority. Distress and Urgency calls commence with MAYDAY or PAN and are the two Emergency Categories which use a common format known as the Emergency Messgae.

A Training Fix is categorised as "Direction Finding" it is not an Emergency Message and takes the next order of priority. The two categories should not be confused.

[screetch]

I PASSED :)

the exam was funny but weird and not like real flying. I had too much paperwork in front of me and I had to look on the map and virtually move the plane to the next waypoint.
I had to relay a mayday call and also carry out a pan call due to rough running engine. Other than that I had to get a true bearing, pass a matz and controlled airspace via svfr.
All in all not bad but I was taking it too serious writing about two pages of information down. This I would never do in real.


So now I am waiting for the licence to come back.