Training on group aircraft

[grumps]

Hi
I belong to a group where one member (retired captain) has never exercised his PPL privileges and wishes to do so. CAA has told him that he has to pass a skill test. I instruct at another airfield. Am I allowed to provide instruction on the group a/c ? Also it is based at an unlicensed aerodrome is this acceptable for training?:hmm:

[Mark 1]

The answer is "probably yes".

Have a look at this (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/aic/white/EG_Circ_2007_W_018_en.pdf)

[Whopity]

1. All training for a licence or aircraft rating must be conducted from a licensed aerodrome. Presumably as he has never exercised his PPL privileges he will not have a SEP rating in his licence so licensed aerodrome it must be.

2. With regard to the aircraft it depends on how it is maintained. In order to conduct training it must be maintained to public transport standards; There must be an Airworthiness Review Certificate (ARC) and a certificate of maintenance release issued by an approved maintenance organisation.

The above AIC may be out of date as new EASA requirements came into force last week!

[Duchess_Driver]

Whops....

Point 1.....are you sure???

He has a licence.....just not the rating? Stand to be corrected (and probably will) but is a licenced field only required for the issue of a licence?

[EGBKFLYER]

Definitely has to be a licenced aerodrome I'm afraid: ANO Part X article 101 says:

PART X AIR TRAFFIC SERVICE EQUIPMENT, AERODROMES, AERONAUTICAL LIGHTS AND DANGEROUS LIGHTS
Aerodromes – public transport of passengers and instruction in flying

101 (1) An aircraft to which this paragraph applies shall not take off or land at a place in the United Kingdom other than:
(a) an aerodrome licensed under this Order for the take-off and landing of such aircraft; or
(b) a Government aerodrome, or an aerodrome owned or managed by the CAA, notified as available for the take-off and landing of such aircraft, or in respect ofwhich the person in charge of the aerodrome has given his permission for the particular aircraft to take off or land as the case may be;
and in accordance with any conditions subject to which the aerodrome may havebeen licensed or notified, or subject to which such permission may have been given.
(2) Subject to paragraph (3), paragraph (1) applies to:
(a) aeroplanes of which the maximum total weight authorised exceeds 2730 kg and which are flying:
(i) for the purpose of the public transport of passengers;
(ii) for the purpose of instruction in flying given to any person for the purpose
of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot’s licence or the inclusion of an
aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(iii) for the purpose of carrying out flying tests in respect of the grant of a pilot’s licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating or a night rating in a licence;

However, you can train on a Permit aircraft, with certain conditions (ask the LAA). C of A categories don't exist for EASA-controlled aircraft anymore, so the public transport thing doesn't apply any longer.

[Whopity]

Actually its now Article 126

126 (1) An aircraft to which this paragraph applies shall not take off or land at a place in the United Kingdom other than:
(a) an aerodrome licensed under this Order for the take-off and landing of such aircraft; or
(b) a Government aerodrome etc

(ii) for the purpose of instruction in flying given to any person for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(iii) for the purpose of carrying out flying tests in respect of the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating or a night rating in a licence;

And it applies to Permit Aircraft as well unless there is an Exemption in force i.e Microlights and SLMGs

[Mark 1]

Although the chap hasn't exercised SEP privileges, one would assume that his CPL or PPL would have been originally issued with single engine privileges.

So, in that case, it would be training for renewal of those priviliges and not the inclusion of a new rating.

Even if the original CPL was on multi engine, the original PPL would be single engine and non-expiring. So cannot a SEP renewal be taken on that licence?

[EGBKFLYER]

I don't think so - any rating the person may have had is clearly expired. Even under the old national PPL, there would still have been a C of E requirement. With the training required to meet skills test standards and the requirement for a skills test too, I think the flights would have to be conducted from a licenced field.

However, don't take my word for it - a call to FCL will probably give a definitive answer...

Whopity - thanks. Will download a more up to date ANO...

[bookworm]

With the training required to meet skills test standards and the requirement for a skills test too, I think the flights would have to be conducted from a licenced field.

I disagree. Inclusion, Renewal, and Revalidation of a rating are distinct concepts. If the pilot has ever held an SEP class rating, this is a renewal (LASORS makes this explicit), and any training does not require a licensed airfield. Note however that the Skills Test does require a licensed airfield.