Aircraft ditched off Whitby, Teeside UK

[TSandPSintheGREEN]

Has anyone heard about this? Possible ditching after mayday heard this afternoon... ? Apparently oilslick seen afterwards...

[ihadcontrol]

Just been on local news

[Foxy Loxy]

Initial report here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/7677074.stm)

Fingers crossed they find survivors.

[XL319]

Suggestions are that it was a (G-BOLF) PA38 based at Durham Tees Valley and one pilot. Pilot is still missing. My thoughts are with the pilot at this time.

[Pace]

From the eye witness reports it doesnt sound like a ditching but the aircraft falling out of the sky which is not good news.

Pace

[False Capture]

This thread is clearly 'news' why is it that some idiotic moderator has moved it out of the Rumours and News forum?:confused:

Hopefully, the pilot is OK.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Falsey.

The "idiotic" moderator probably moved this to the appropriate place in the Private Flying forum because this is, after all, the PROFESSIONAL pilot's rumour netwwork, and a PA28 plummeting into Robin Hood's Bay with rescuers called off after wreckage found on the bottom is as unlikely to be a Professional/Commercial accident as it is to yeild survivors...

[MarcJF]

Glad to see this thread is back where it should be. Hope all is ok for pilot, anyone know anything more?

[XL319]

Search has been called off just now. Reports of them waiting til low tide at midnight to resume search. Aircraft has been found submerged but no signs of a surivour as of yet. Fingers Crossed they do

[mmeteesside]

Yes sadly it seems that it was a PA38 that is based here at Durham Tees - it is believed there was only 1 POB at the time of the accident. Unfortunately no news on any survivor being found yet and although we would like to think otherwise, I fear it is now unlikely that they will find anyone :(
The aircraft went down around 1615 just off the coast of Robin Hoods Bay, which is when the mayday was heard. There were many aircraft searching for the wreckage, which was found at 1739 by the Police helicopter from Newcastle. It would seem that the aircraft broke up on impact which suggests it wasn't a controlled (forced) landing into the water :sad:

A sad sad day for aviation in our area! Our thoughts are with the pilot and family!

[Silent Witness]

BBC News Report / A very sad outcome.

The body of a man has been found by police divers near the wreckage of a light aircraft which crashed off the coast of North Yorkshire.

The two-seater plane, a 38 Piper, was seen coming down into the sea close to Robin Hood's Bay on Friday afternoon.

The body, which was recovered on Saturday afternoon, is thought to be the pilot from the Teesside area. He was the only person on board.
The body has been taken to Scarborough Hospital to be formally identified.

A major search was launched on Friday night when the plane was seen crashing into the water.
Humber Coastguard said the person on board had transmitted a Mayday message before the plane crashed.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Another suicide?

FOK :sad:

[Lurking123]

falsey, you are right and agaricus is wrong. Unfortunately the muppets who now run this forum are under the illusion that the only way to be a professional pilot is to sit in the front end of an aluminium tube carrying SLF. Search for the thread on the Coventry crash where three professional pilots died but, because they weren't carrying the bucket and spade brigade, a very important aviation safety issue was 'relegated' to Private Flying. Narrow-minded, bigotted, arrogant muppets.

Standing-by to be barred. :zzz:

[AMEandPPL]

I wondered that too . . . . . . . very similar in many ways to the known suicide in the sea off Bournemouth a few years back. Very sad. I suppose just slightly less likely to be suicide if a genuine "Mayday" was heard.

AOL news report here
Body found near plane wreckage - AOL News (http://news.aol.co.uk/body-found-near-plane-wreckage/article/20081018143253331807661)

Not a good couple of weeks for light aviation in the UK. :ugh: :{

[vanHorck]

It s not very likely to be a suicide if he made a Mayday call is it?

[PPRuNe Towers]

A horrifying rash of about 20 light aircraft/helicopter accidents in Australia over the last 6 months or so.

Around 15 in Southern Africa

Several in the UK

None appear on Rumours and News, our main international pro aviation forum.
All are discussed at length in their local forums.

SOP

Rob

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Maybe, but if the person involved had the where-with-all to think of his (assumed?) family at that point it would help with any insurance claim.

Suicide = no pay out

'Mayday' = accidental death.

I'm getting very cynical in my old age.

Sorry I don't mean to offend, but unless it was mechanical failure out of range of the coast, weather problem, spinning practice or a medical emergency just exactly how do you crash a PA-38, uncontrolled, into the sea?!

FOK :sad:

[vanHorck]

You may be right, but i sincerely hope it s not true.

None of us should falsly cover a suicide if we love our aviation.... Jeez just think of all the businesses sued, al the people working there, the owners....

If you want to kill yourself do it in your own plane and don t blame anyone else!

B

[Creep Feed Grinder]

Sorry I don't mean to offend, but unless it was mechanical failure out of range of the coast, weather problem, spinning practice or a medical emergency just exactly how do you crash a PA-38, uncontrolled, into the sea?!

You just answered your own question.

Sorry guys but I find all this talk extremely distasteful.

The guys family might read this.

This was a terrible and no doubt avoidable (as they all are) accident until proven otherwise.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Yep, you're right of course.

The trouble with PPruNe is that, if you're not careful, you tend to get drawn into 'clubhouse gossip'.

It'll all come out in the wash no doubt.

FOK :sad:

[AMEandPPL]

The trouble with PPRuNe is that, if you're not careful, you tend to get drawn into 'clubhouse gossip'

Absolutely right, after all the "Ru" in PPRuNe stands for RUMOUR. It was the same at EGCB after last week's fatality on Saddleworth Moor. Must stress - NOT of suicide. But certainly of "self-inflicted" - well-known long history of "reckless" flying.

Better to await the outcome of AAIB investigations.

[Jodelman]

Suicide = no pay out

Not necessarily so. Since the Suicide Act 1961, most life assurance policies only exclude suicide in the first 13 months of the contract.

[m3oml]

Having been touched by the initial gestures of well wishing, I have been quite disturbed by how quickly the tone of the thread has descended into ignorant,distasteful and ill informed speculation that this may have been a suicide. I can categorically say that this was not the case. Creep Feed grinder is correct when he says the said pilot's family might read this.

The pilot was my uncle. On behalf of the family, I would like to thanks those who found positive things to say. Hoping the rest of the family do not read the pearls of hurtful b*ll*cks flying officer kite has to offer, I would kindly request that we let the AAIB do their job and then by all means debate their findings as and when they are published.

[AMEandPPL]

I really mean that - - no offence meant at all. Total sympathies and condolences to any families of those who are lost in this way. In my career I've known lots of deaths, including accidental ones, but I must admit to never having been personally involved in any such matters that made national headlines.

But it must also be said that debate (maybe even a bit of speculation) is now considered quite normal, maybe even healthy, when news of ALL events (good and bad) reach our newspapers and TV screen so quickly after they happen. Is the Internet, with forums such as this one, to be treated any differently to press or TV ? Hands up the person who has NEVER, EVER, made speculative (maybe totally unfounded) remarks about other folks' driving skills when yet another example of motorway carnage finds its way onto our screens ?

There, but for the grace of God, go . . . . . . . probably most of the people who will eventually read this posting. Once again, my very sincerest sympathies to anyone who has any direct association with this tragedy.

The AAIB will do their job well, as they always do; and we will all read the report in due course.

[IO540]

It's unlikely to be a suicide because

Suicide = no pay out

'Mayday' = accidental death.

has a 3rd option which is to remain silent, and your estate gets any insurance payout then too.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments expressed by AMEandPPL.

Whilst I sympathize entirely with the family and friends of anyone involved in a fatal accident of this nature, if it cannot be discussed and debated on PPruNe then we might as well close the website down.

My comments were not without precedent* and if you can offer an alternative explanation to those proposed, then I would be interested to learn what that might be?

Kind regards

FOK :)

* PA-38 in the sea off Bournemouth, PA-28 in the sea off Liverpool

[bjornhall]

if it cannot be discussed and debated on PPruNe then we might as well close the website down

On the contrary, if the forum becomes a "free for all, anything goes" place exempt from common decency and the most rudimentary degree of consideration and courtesy, then it might as well be closed down. Some things are better not said out loud, especially in public, whether the internet is involved or not.

Perhaps the less controversial posts could be split off to a different thread and the present thread locked? If a need is felt to discuss pilot suicides, don't do that in a thread that was originally about an accident for which there is no reason whatsoever to imagine that suicide had anything to do with it.

This whole conversation is extremely tasteless.

[vanHorck]

We are all aware non-pilots read this forum.

At the same time, this forum is intended for pilots and in my view especially to learn from what happens.

I am sure we all feel for the family, and what ele can we say in comfort other than that he died doing something he must have loved a lot...

but at the same time I think it was quite ok for a poster to mention the possibility it was a suicide. Especially the ensuing discussions on the pay out side is information.

Perhaps we should all impres on our families we WANT such an open discussion on this forum, even if we die in the course of our love, just as we should impres on our families it is NOT our wish, in case we die, that litigation ensues which damages our industry and penalises it on technicalities.

There, I've said it. It s been on my mind for a long time, having seen from a distance how bad preflight check led to a death, and subsequently a company was sued for an omission which had no relevance to the accident in the opinion of those technically involved.

For the record: If i die, flying my own plane asP1 or P2 or PUS, i do not want anyone to be sued over it, I only want the truth out so others can learn from it

[m3oml]

Flying officer kite, I appreciate the right of everyone to voice their opinions and maybe my language was somewhat strong, for which I apologise and can only put his down to the very raw emotion that I and my family are feeling at the moment.
However, what I found distasteful and ill-judged, as feed creeper put it, you quoted a long list of possible causes for this accident, but still seemed intent on exploring the more sinister possibilities. I have no doubt that the AAIB will explore the possibility of suicide. I also have no doubt that this will be dismissed out of hand. As I said previously, let's allow the AAIB to establish the facts regarding what has happened, because until then, any "debate" is based on supposition which can lead us down a very different path to that which actually occured.
And for the record, as a FATPL holder I also have a professional interest in what happened, if only it wasn't so close to home.
brgds

[FlyingOfficerKite]

m3oml

I sympathize with you and your family entirely and I'm sorry that your uncle has died in such a tragic manner.

The problem with a forum such as this is that it is impersonal.

This is good in so far as it enables heated debate and the expression of ones opinions about matters concerning aviation.

On the other hand it can be very insensitive to the feelings of those involved.

But, in common with other situations in life, a lot is often said behind closed doors which would not be said in front of those involved out of respect for their sensitivities. It happens in all aspects of life. I suppose the trouble with PPruNe is there are no 'closed doors'.

The problem is with any 'public forum' whether it is the media or ones such as this is that the feelings of relatives and friends are never taken into account. If they were, very little would be published in the press and very few comments would be posted on websites like PPruNe out of sensitivity for those involved.

I don't know what the answer is, but who is going to publish an opinion on PPruNe knowing that a close relative may be reading every word?

We might as well all come clean and sign on in our real names and treat this website as though it were 'real life'. Maybe then more thought would go into the comments made and more respect afforded to those involved.

My comments were not designed to offend, just to offer speculation in common with any other similar Thread that has ever been published on this site.

FOK :)

[Lister Noble]

I belong to another Forum ,The Vintage Sports Car Club where the forumistes are only allowed to enter if they are members of the club.
The club has around 7500 members world wide although not that many post,but most of the posters are known to each other even if they use a pseudonym, although as on here I use my real name.
The forum is very polite although a great deal of p*ss taking goes on and it also has an excellent technical section for serious enquiries.

Pprune is open to all the world,pilots or not and no personal membership details required.
There are all types posting here and it takes a while to recognise those with something worthwhile to add,without self interest and banging their own drum.
The real problem with electronic messaging is that there is no body language,so that things you may say face to face in the pub with a big grin and shrug of the shoulders comes over as cold and clinical on here.
Sorry if this is a bit rambling,especially as I have not had my evening G&T yet ,but often what comes out on here is probably not as originally intended by the poster.
Rambling over.
Lister:)

[Parsnip]

Condolences are quite often pointless on anonymous websites such as this, and in any event I suspect that the poster whose uncle has been involved in this tragedy is no longer reading these posts. I knew this aircraft previously (its in my log book) but I don't know who was flying her on Friday. The posts speculating suicides are tasteless and puerile. Has anyone thought about a low pass over the sea (yes I know foolish but it happens) with engine failure and not enough height to clear the cliffs, or maybe serious structural failure , or control surface failures...I could go on but I unlike the ghouls on here will await the AAIB
R.I.P to the fellow aviator and sincere sympathy to the family who are left without their loved one

[AMEandPPL]

I suspect that the poster whose uncle has been involved in this tragedy is no longer reading these posts

Actually, he last contributed less than three hours ago. (16.50 hrs)

[FlyingOfficerKite]

The posts speculating suicides are tasteless and puerile

That's what we thought about 'YG off Liverpool.

I flew the aircraft only a couple of days before and there were no technical problems.

So what did we think?

We'll one instructor who saw the aircraft hit the sea said there was no sign of a forced landing.

Indeed there wasn't - two suicides! The rest is well known.

So don't criticize my comments on this Thread. It was quite reasonable to speculate that possibility. If that offends your sensibilities then maybe you should confine your time to viewing other less contentious websites.

Life is hard at times.

It's the way it goes.

FOK :)

PS: As AMEandPPL states, relatives are still reading these Posts knowing the pain and anguish it causes then one has to question their motives. I certainly would not if all it served to do was inflict even more distress! It would be the LAST place I would be accessing.

[ShyTorque]

[Speaking as someone who has lost 18 good friends to flying accidents since my professional career began over thirty one years ago and know first hand the distress caused to their relatives].

It's not often I have clicked on the exclamation mark sign at bottom left of a post, but tonight I have done so.

[Whirlygig]

FOK, you've never lost anyone close to you in trgaic circumstances have you? If you had, you would realise the crass stupidity of many of your remarks.

Cheers

Whirls

[BRL]

Following a number of complaints I have thread banned FOK.

[Bearcat]

well done BRL, I just could'nt believe some of the posts contents.

On another note those tomahawks are demons in a spin and can snap into one very quickly irrespective of the stall strips on the leading edges.

[m3oml]

firstly, once again i would like to thank those who have passed their condolences which are never pointless, anonymous or not.
it was not my intention that FOK be banned from the thread.I don't believe in censorship, just that when people do make comments that might hurt one's sensibilites, they arm themselves with the facts first.
The fact that suicide was "mentioned" as a "possible" cause was not what offended me, just as when the AAIB speak to my auntie tomorrow I am sure she will not be offended that they have to ask her difficult questions to rule out the possibility of any sort of foul play. where I think FOK (and maybe one or two others) overstepped the mark is that he didn't seem interested in discussing one of the several other possibilites, instead almost assuming that suicide was the cause, merely because there have been "precedents". It was at this point that the discussion started to veer off in the wrong direction and where i felt i had to make a rare interjection.
my objection was less to do with my hurt feelings and more to do with how such a possiblity was discussed in such depth, including how it might be covered up with as yet absolutely no reference to established facts. I would have felt strongly about this (as have many posters) even if this was not relating to a family member.
If I could make one last point in response to FOK questioning my motives for continuing to read this site - initially it was to gather information and opinion to help me get my head round what has happened, secondly it was to take comfort from the good wishes of fellow aviators and lastly it was to try to counteract the more tactless comments on this site, not neccessarily for my sake, but just in case my cousin happens to stumble upon pprune when he's trying to find out more about what happened to his dad.

[flynowpaylater]

I heard the tragic news this morning. I worked closely with the pilot concerned, and he was very much part of our industry. I am totally gutted by this news, and disgusted with the pathetic slant of "possible suicide". My god, of course his family and friends will read this. FOK - try and engage your brain before typing things you insensitive buffoon.
To the family - I will not be the 1st to mention names, but save to say that I worked a lot with him and he was an absolute pleasure to deal with. A massive loss to our industry, and an even bigger loss to his family, who I know he absolutely cherished.

RIP.

[S-Works]

Must say even I am a little shocked by the instant jump to suicide from what seems like an engine failure. The reports from eyewitness state the aircraft was silent when it went overhead and hit the water. The pilot made a Mayday call. Seems like he was possibly injured during the ditching, incapacitated and unable to self assist. I have seen nothing that from the accident reports that suggest otherwise so far so I think the giant leaps some are making on here are a little unnecessary.

By all means healthy speculation on the cause where there is visible evidence is worth discussing as it may save another life, but wild speculation?

[N707ZS]

This mornings news said the aircraft has been recovered and removed for investigation.

[AMEandPPL]

so I think the giant leaps some are making on here are a little unnecessary. . . . . . . . . . . but wild speculation ?

Giant leaps and wild speculation are actually what PPRuNe is all about. Just look at most of the threads which start on R&N. Today the american pilot arrested "on suspicion of" being drunk is getting all the stick, much of which is, frankly, totally unjustified. And all the comments about the (dead) Spanair pilots' alleged errors would have been (still are) available for their grieving relatives to read on here.

Perhaps the mods should ban me from this too . . . . . after all I echoed the first suggestion from FOK within just a few minutes. My defence to that is that it is within my professional training to consider all possibilities when anything aviation-related goes wrong.

Sympathies and condolences have already been expressed, I will not labour the point by repeating mine.

I wonder if there is time for a hearty breakfast first . . . . ?

[S-Works]

OK, so lets stay with the wild speculation. We currently have the options of suicide and mechanical failure.

1. Suicide - Anyone got any evidence of this other than some anecdotal evidence that someone used an aircraft for suicide in the past? Now if someone is going to post on here that they have solid proof that the victim had grounds to do themselves in I personally see little room for further speculation on that front?

2. Mechanical failure - Mayday called, aircraft silent in the glide before ditching. How experienced was the pilot, what age and state was the aircraft?

3. Open to more speculation.

[N707ZS]

Aircraft, 30 years old. Lived outside never hangered. About 6000 hours.
Used 2 or 3 times a week or more if the weather was good.
Maintenance by Bagby aviation.

[BRL]

No, don't specualte on this one, start a new thread for reasons why an aeroplane can suddenly drop out of the sky.

I am all for healthy debate so go and do it on another thread please.

[AMEandPPL]

No, don't speculate on this one, start a new thread

Nothing more to discuss, then. Facts clear in this case :- an aircraft crashed in sea, single person on board, unsurvivable. Just as has
been reported hitherto. Thanks

[englishal]

I have no issue discussing stuff like this, in an informed way, but who the heck came up with the idea of ppossible suicuide? What goes up must come down after all and it is far easier to come down that go up in a light aeroplane......E.g. Engine fails, stretch the glide, spin, whatever....

[SpannerInTheWerks]

spicejetter

Why exactly would you want to get 'familiar' with an accident in which two people lost their lives if you had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident?

SITW :confused:

[SpannerInTheWerks]

englishal

Apparantly there has been several instances of people using aeroplanes as a means of taking their own lives, including a previous incidence with a PA38.

Rightly or wrongly this was suggested earlier in this thread and the proposer seems to have paid the price for that suggestion?!

SITW :sad:

[DavidHoul52]

Whenever there is a fatal accident there seems to be a pattern both here - and at the "other place" .

1. News report which has sparse details.
2. Sadness expressed and condolences to family.
3. Speculation as to the cause.
4. People upset that such speculation is insensitive.

3 and 4 take up 95% of the posts.

I suppose this is to be expected. A fatal accident is indeed big news for all of us in GA. We like to think that we can safely assume that our little aeroplanes won't suddenly go into a dive and crash into the sea.

I suspect that what most of us would like is a bit more real information. Have there been similar accidents in the past? Has anyone experience problems (e.g severe turbulence) when flying in similar terrain? Those who knew the pilot - without identifying the individual - how experienced pilot was he? Was he familiar with PA-38s? Is there a possibility the aircraft went into a spin?

[Whirlygig]

Why exactly would you want to get 'familiar' with an accident in which two people lost their lives if you had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident?


Don't know about you Spanner, but I read all the relevant AAIB reports when they are published. Don't you? Guess not!

Nothing wrong with reading them and possibly something from which we can all learn so I would imagine that's why spicejetter would want the details and/or link.

Cheers

Whirls

[DavidHoul52]

there has been several instances of people using aeroplanes as a means of taking their own lives

probably a lot more than is known for certain.

[flynowpaylater]

Gentlemen please. The pilot concerned was a friend within the industry and I would be flabbergasted if he even considered taking his life. He had a good career, lovely close family and a beautiful home. He had only just completed his PPL. He was a lovely man who was liked by many in our industry.

For those of you with **** all else to do than speculate and distribute your drivel, try this for size......inexperienced PPL, Tomahawk, engine failure? / or other emergency situation......not rocket science is it!

My defence to that is that it is within my professional training to consider all possibilities when anything aviation-related goes wrong.

AMEandPPL - Who asked you to consider anything? - If you were that "professional" you would gather ALL the facts first (if asked to do so) and weigh them up in a considerate and thoughtful manner.Not spout off your ill informed rhetoric and theories to anyone that will listen. Spare a thought for the family, and many friends that he had within the industry, and try to resist suggesting ridiculous theories that have no basis whatsoever.

[AMEandPPL]

spicejetter This is what you are looking for :

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/G-BJYG.pdf

By a very strange, almost freakish, coincidence, I have had in my office this morning for Class 2 renewal a PPL who flies from Liverpool and knew the aircraft concerned, and the couple who died.
I have learned a very great deal today which I did not know before, but out of respect for the majority of the posters on here I'll keep it to myself.

[AMEandPPL]

Not spout off your ill informed rhetoric and theories to anyone that will listen

Well, that's put me in my place then. Maybe I'd be better off in R&N, where those things are the everyday requirements.

I'll see myself out . . . . . . . . . after perusing the ads down the left side . . .

[vanHorck]

I have read the link AIB report.

now, my native language is not english, but in that flight too (!), I understand suicide is only speculation, as there is no mentionning of it in the AIB report.

Unknown water in the tank (kids sabotage?, my question), previous unexplained engine failure, possible stall warner fuse issue.

So where does all this talk come from? I am asking purely from a curiosity point of view.

Committing suicide is generally a very sad thing to happen, with total disregard for those remaining (!!!!!) and we as pilots should not engage in using our planes for that!

[AMEandPPL]

A question I have wanted to ask for many months; now the subject arises in relation to this particular thread, so here goes.

On each forum index page is a column headed "rating", in (some of) which graphics of arms appear, with different numbers of "seniority" type stripes. Each also has a hand with a thumb pointing either upwards, sideways or downwards.

What do these mean ?
Who decides on the numbers of stripes depicted ?
Who decides on the direction of the thumb ?

At the time of writing this, for this thread the seniority is only one stripe, and the thumb is down. What does this tell us ?

I am pretty sure that there will be many PPRuNers with much more experience than I who will be able to explain all !

VERY interesting ! ! - since posting this the arm has now got three stripes, and the thumb is pointing sideways ! ! What did I do or say ?

[vanHorck]

clicking on the arrow means you can give stars ("stripes") to any thread.

I guess it aggregates the votes of the menbers, it's like the Eurovision song contest..... Vote p[ositive for your friends, negative for those you dislike.

Assuming some people just luvvvvvv to vote and others just read, it probably doesn t mean much, just the average opinion of those who like to vote.....

[AMEandPPL]

vanHorck - Thanks for that ! I've learned something very useful today ! I see that this thread is now 4 stripes, and thumbs up !

On a more serious note, and relating to our posts earlier today, it is true that the AAIB report on the Liverpool PA28 accident did not mention the dreaded "S" word. Nor, indeed, did the Coroner at the inquest on the two victims of that tragedy - the official verdict was "accidental".

But many folk in the GA flying scene around EGGP believe differently. I have heard things this morning which have really shocked me. But in the present climate here it would not be sensible to discuss any more.

"In the past, best left there"

[EKKL]

I'm not 100% convinced it was suicide (nor am I 100% convinced it was an accident). Perhaps a few poor descisions, but not suicide. Granted, if I knew more about the guy, his family and his situation I might be swayed, but on the facts of it, I would say this was an accident

The pilot was being investigated for child porn on his computer. Everybody around Liverpool knew this. Go figure.

Does that change your opinion now you know this.

[vanHorck]

if you had child porn on your computer and your wife was not implicated, would you take her with you on your suicide mission?

Could be either, suicide or accident.

If it was suicide, it was murder too!

Geez life can be horrible.....

[AMEandPPL]

If it was suicide, it was murder too!

Guess what - those were the EXACT words of the PPL in my office this morning !

BUT, after a few moments' discussion, agreed it could be suicide pact - NEITHER wishing to face up to the shame, etc.

Just a thought.

[beatnik]

While I am puzzled at how a conclusion of suicide can really be drawn from that AAIB report (a PAN then Mayday call, wife as passenger, water contamination, attempting to return to the coast), I did learn something tonight which is so obvious :ugh: but I had never considered it before.

Yesterday afternoon, as I was scooting only 100ft under the cloud base of 2,100 ft in the south east of England, I never for a moment considered that I was probably flying in 99% humid air - and was therefore exposing myself to a higher than normal chance of developing carb ice.

Yes - I know the theory of temperature lapse rates & how clouds form etc, but until I saw it in black and white in Fig 1 of the AAIB report - I had never made the connection.

Although I was applying carb heat during my regular FREDA checks, and I don't believe I actually suffered carb ice - it is certainly a lesson learned !