PPR?

[snapper41]

What is the correct definition of PPR - a phone call prior to taking off from home, or is a radio call en route sufficient?

[dublinpilot]

I don't think there is one. What people want varies from airport to airport.

The only way you can be sure, is to telephone in advance. Other than that you're taking your chances on what they actually will accept.

dp

[Pace]

Snapper41

PPR is just that Prior Permission so technically you could ask for it before landing or entering their airspace.

Some airfields stipulate their own requirements ie PPR day before or suchlike and by phone to an administration office.

failing that most expect a call before you depart and it probably would not go down well if you call them up in the flare :)

Pace

[Red Four]

I would say that for airfields with proper ATC, PPR usually would mean a phone call before departing - don't assume that someone will be there unless you have phoned. Often it can be for staffing reasons, as well as a host of others.

[1800ed]

It says in my Air Law book that you should telephone for PPR and that radio PPR isn't really an acceptable thing to do. Though I think they are making that point to make you er on the side of caution, and to be polite.

[possel]

In many cases a flight guide entry will specify exactly what is acceptable - some will say "Strict PPR by telephone" and others will say "PPR by radio". If it says neither then you can try the latter and take a chance - but they may refuse or the radio may not be manned. In either case you have to accept it gracefully and go elsewhere.

[BackPacker]

If you dread a PPR call, just keep in mind that allowing planes to land and take-off is the sole reason of existence for an airfield - and to a large extent their main source of revenue too. Usually they love to see you come but just want to make sure you've been fully briefed so as not to annoy the neighbors.

It's only in rare cases that permission to land will not be granted, and usually there's a very good reason for that, then. One that makes you glad you called beforehand.

[PompeyPaul]

I phoned an airfield for PPR a few months ago. I think it was the security guard that answered the phone:

"There's nobody here at the moment, you know the radio frequency though don't you? It'll be fine"

I decided that wasn't QUITE enough PPR for my liking and avoided it.

[Fuji Abound]

It is an old chestnut - worth using the search function for past discussions.

At the end of the day it all depends on the owners, whatever the flight guides might or might not say - so never assume unless you are sure of your alternate or experience tells you otherwise.

In the UK for example Duxford are hopeless. They are strictly PPR by 'phone only. They are a good example of the nonesense of sticky rigidly to PPR by telephone whatever the circumstances (and of course it is their privilege to do so). I was passing them a while ago one winters day, with no activity in their "ATZ" at all, and all of about a lone aircraft on the ground.

Could I pop in for a coffee I asked.

Did you 'phone for PPR?

No, said I, as I was passing I thought I might just ask.

Then you cant, said he.

If I had 'phoned, might I then have been allowed.

Yes, said he, we have nothing going on at all today.

Ah, said I, so if I land at Cambridge in 10 minutes, and call you on the mobile for PPR, all will be well.

Ah, yes said he.

Well what about if I decend to 1,000 feet in your overhead so I can get a mobile signal and call you from there.

At this point the conversation was getting a bit strained and I think he thought I was taking the Mick so we carried on about our business.

Bembridge on the other hand comes to mind. They say they are PPR, but are always welcoming, never had a problem give them a call in bound - a great place to visit.

To be fair you would be nuts going somewhere that was PPR without checking without an alternate, but sometimes I think there is nothing better than setting off on a round robin and deciding on the hoof to call into somewhere en route. As long as you do so on the basis that if they turn you away it is only their loss, not yours, I dont see that it matters asking.

If it is a genuinely a private strip (personally I dont include places such as Duxford in this category) then I think it is just rude not to 'phone first unless you know the owners already.

[IO540]

It means different things to different people, and different airports.

In the strict sense, Dublinpilot is 100% right. You must make a positive two-way contact, and obtain a confirmation of the permission with the planned destination and also with the alternate.

In the UK, this is easy. Just phone them. They speak English! It's a good idea anyway; they might be shut or whatever.

In Europe generally, it gets more tricky, partly due to language and partly due to often inaccurate published contact info. I've been refused landing a few times, in one case from short final on an IFR flight, and that was at Padova (Italy) who had a fax from me (which they denied having) and I was unable to phone them (no reply). Sometimes (Corsica comes to mind) they hang up when they hear a foreign language on the phone. Sometimes there simply isn't an English speaker on the phone despite it being an airport with Customs (Pamplona, Spain, as well as various Italian places) and several faxes and emails send over the preceeding days are not answered. The vast majority of published email addresses, even those on airport websites, are duff. Many fax numbers are duff too :) It can be done, and there is a kind of a process one can follow, but it can take a while to sort it out. And it has to be done.

In the UK, a lot of "PPR" is the result of a planning permission deal with the local council.

Abroad, a lot of "PPR" is ostensibly to enable the airport to control apron capacity, but usually you get around it by "paying more" (going via a handling agent).

BTW - I gather that Duxford has recently re-examined their way of dealing with PPR, for the better (due to the word getting about, resulting in a loss of visitors).

As I said on the other thread, I think a lot of PPR is illegal because a public airport has to be open.