VFR Flight - Fairoaks to Middelburg Midden Zeeland

[PompeyPaul]

I am planing a flight from Fairoaks (EGTF) to Middelburg Midden Zeeland in the Netherlands (EHMZ).

Has anybody done this route before or have any tips ? It all looks simple enough, route out of the UK over the North Sea and half hour / 45 mins later land for chips with mayonaise.

I was just wondering if anybody had any tip on drawing lines between 2 seperate maps. I think my CAA UK and Jepperson NL maps don't quite over lap so I need some way of drawing a line between the 2 to get my direct bearing. Presumably I just lay them both out on the floor and scale where they should be ?

I'm wondering who I should talk to over the north sea ? When I went to L2K I was handed off from Lydd to LFAT but the distance is greater with this trip. Presumably I need to talk to London information until I cross the boundary and will then get handed to Amsterdam information.

If anybody has done this, or similar before, then please send me all details :ok:

Oh yes, just one more question. Why do Dutch airfields have such large ATZ's around them ? 8NM ? If memory serves, in the UK they are 3NM

[BackPacker]

PP, what you're looking at isn't an 8-mile ATZ. You're looking at an 8-mile CTR with a 3-mile ATZ inside it. Don't go in there without permission, as they're all class C.

The only airport with an ATZ in the Netherlands, which is not contained in controlled airspace is EHLE and it's not round but more or less square, following easily identified line features.

Anyway, flying UK to the Netherlands I always route DVR - KONAN - KOK. KONAN is the intersection on the FIR boundary which is exactly on that track. 97 degrees or so magnetic but use the VOR since you're flying very close to French airspace. You'll be talking to Ostende Approach, who will hand you over to Dutch Mil after the Dutch/Belgium border.

If you do another crossing, it's true that it's almost completely impossible to work out the magnetic heading since the Jepp and UK ICAO map do not overlap conveniently. Use your GPS or an electronic flight planning tool on the internet to work out that leg. (fly.dsc.net for instance) Not having an accurate map of that part of your route is not that much of a problem since there's not going to be many obstacles in the way, but you have to have an idea about the airspace division.

For the crossing, after whoever you talk to on the UK side (London Info I guess or someone who has radar), you talk to Amsterdam Info on 136.65 as long as you are over water, and then Dutch Mil 132.35 when near the coast.

EHMZ is a lovely airfield, although last time I was there I had a birdstrike resulting in three hours of gathering paperwork for the authorities, and a plane which was grounded for repairs for the better part of a month. But that's another story.

Mind the displaced threshold, identified with black/white checkered blocks on the grass.

Customs is 1hr PN. If you do an overland flight (overseas flight is good too) you get vouchers for two coffees plus a "zeeuwse bolus" at the restaurant. And I've heard (but can't verify it on their website) that if you buy at least 50 liters of fuel, your T&Gs are free. You might want to give them a call to see if this is indeed true.

On the extended centerline west of the field there's a camping place and you are asked to avoid this (30 degree offset final 09 or 30 degree offset upwind 27) if at all possible.

Circuit is to the North, with gliders on the south of the field, so do a proper 90 degree join on downwind. No OHJs in the Netherlands!

[PompeyPaul]

Thanks for the info. I think I'll route out across the North sea since it will be much quicker that way. I've got survival equipment on board, including a raft.

Is there a website anywhere that maps flight plan codes to locations ? Or is it simply VOR \ Airfields that can be entered into a flight plan ? Drifting the thread I know :eek:

[BackPacker]

For starters, for a VFR flight you don't have to put anything in the "route" field. The only thing that's required for international flight is the EET for the FIR boundaries. In the "remarks" field put EET/EHAA0030 if you expect to hit the Dutch FIR boundary 30 minutes after takeoff.

Having said that, if you want to put a route in, you can use VOR or five-letter reporting points such as KONAN and string them together using "DCT" for direct - you won't be flying formal airways when VFR. If you fly a straight line you can even just put a single "DCT" in the route field - meaning a straight line from Fairoaks to Midden Zeeland.

Variations on this theme are geographic long/lat positions, bearings and distances from VORs or NDBs. I've never done them - I just used something along the lines of "DCT COA DCT KOK DCT KONAN DCT DVR DCT DET DCT" instead.

[dublinpilot]

For starters, for a VFR flight you don't have to put anything in the "route" field. The only thing that's required for international flight is the EET for the FIR boundaries.

I don't think you're correct there BP.

The authority on Flight Plans is ICAO Document 4444, Appendix 2. It says for the route:

Flights outside designated ATS routes:

Insert: points not normally more than 30 minutes flying time or 370km (200nm) apart including each point at which a change in speed or level, a change of track, or a change of flight rules is planned.

OR: when required by appropriate ATS authority(ies)

So unless your flight is less than 30 minutes flying time(with no turns), you will need to enter route details.

[BackPacker]

DP, legally speaking you are right. And for a long overwater flight putting a route in makes sense. Practically speaking though, for a local VFR flight or VFR overland flight within the Netherlands, even if longer than 30 minutes, if you leave the route field empty, nobody complains.

Since I fly from a controlled field in the Netherlands, I'm required to submit a flight plan for each and every flight. Between the FIO, the tower and us, we're sort of used to putting in the minimal amount of information required to speed things up. If we submit them by phone, the operator doesn't even ask for a route (other than the VFR departure from EHRD we're going to fly).

[airborne_artist]

PP - there's an excellent bakery in the town. Try to keep your jaw in place when his daughter serves you :E

[LH2]

Is there a website anywhere that maps flight plan codes to locations ?

One of many: Route EGTF - EHMZ (http://www.navlost.eu/aero/fpl?orig=EGTF&tas=N0100&alt=F065&route=DET+DVR+KONAN+KOK+COA&dest=EHMZ&alternate=&metar=true&epoch=) (clicking on In Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.navlost.eu%2Faero%2Ffpl.php%3Forig%3DEGT F%26tas%3DN0100%26alt%3DF065%26route%3DDET%2BDVR%2BKONAN%2BK OK%2BCOA%26dest%3DEHMZ%26alternate%3D%26metar%3Dtrue%26fmt%3 Dkml), the description for each waypoint shows the lats and longs at the bottom)

[PompeyPaul]

Quote:
Is there a website anywhere that maps flight plan codes to locations ?
One of many: Route EGTF - EHMZ (http://www.navlost.eu/aero/fpl?orig=EGTF&tas=N0100&alt=F065&route=DET+DVR+KONAN+KOK+COA&dest=EHMZ&alternate=&metar=true&epoch=) (clicking on In Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.navlost.eu%2Faero%2Ffpl.php%3Forig%3DEGT F%26tas%3DN0100%26alt%3DF065%26route%3DDET%2BDVR%2BKONAN%2BK OK%2BCOA%26dest%3DEHMZ%26alternate%3D%26metar%3Dtrue%26fmt%3 Dkml), the description for each waypoint shows the lats and longs at the bottom)
Wow, that site is awesome. It's gems like that, that make reading this website worthwhile. Makes flight planning much easier. I'm also suprised to see that going across the coast line, as opposed to going direct, only adds 6mins to the flight time. For the extra safety it's totally worth doing.
PP - there's an excellent bakery in the town. Try to keep your jaw in place when his daughter serves you http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

Just added it to the tourist trail :ok:

[BackPacker]

PP, is this the first time you are going to fly over the Channel?

There's something else you've got to prepare for. Even in CAVOK 9999, at the altitudes you will be flying cross-channel (most likely FL35 going east and FL45 going west), the horizon will be farther away than your visibility will allow you to see. If there are no distinguisable ground features (duh), the blue-grey of the sea will melt together with the grey-blue of the sky seamlessly, leaving you with absolutely no discernable horizon in front of you. You need to look underneath you, or sideways, to recognise things and be sure the aircraft is level.

It's not dangerous but you have to be aware of this effect and have a strategy to deal with it without too much effort. In my case I simply used the autopilot in HDG and ALT mode.

[PompeyPaul]

Thanks for the head's up. Most appreciated. I've flown across the channel to France and so have seen the very effect that you're talking about.

I think, looking at the route, that given it's only another 6mins flying time in return for a shorter sea crossing I'll go the route that you suggested.

All I need now is the wx, which is probably the hardest thing to get right.

[dublinpilot]

To add to BP's post about a horizon, if the vis is less than 10km, you can deal with it over land. With nothing much to see, viz less than 10km over the water, becomes IMC to all intents and purposes.

With less than 10km over the water, the only way you can see surface detail (and distinguish gray sky from gray murky water) is to look STRAIGHT down from your side window. You can't do this safely for too long, or you will become disorinted.

Be very aware of poor vis across water, unless you have good, current, IMC skills.

[Katamarino]

Backpacker - are you a member of the Vliegclub?

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

PP, do you have a date in mind for your trip? i am off to Midden Zeeland for the first time this Satuday, en route to Berlin, so this thread has been useful.

Don't think I'll have time for the Baker (or his daughter) so planning a return trip already :ok:

[BackPacker]

Katamarino - yes

[Katamarino]

Nice to meet another member on here :) As a non-Dutch speaker I've been feeling rather out of place there :bored: