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Nipper2
4th Sep 2008, 08:05
I note that the 'GUND' value for elevation now appears on an increasing number of AIS plates including many of the small VFR only airfields. A typical example here http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/ad/EGHR/EG_AD_2_EGHR_2-1_en.pdf

(See below for a brief explanation of GUND if you are not familiar).

Two questions:

1. Why? The only reasons I can think of is that it is a prelude to the more widespread use of GPS vertical navigation (e.g. approaches) at these airfields or, more likely, it has simply become an ICAO requirement.

2. Why does it have to be given individually for each runway threshold, thus adding unnecessary clutter and complexity to the chart? The value of GUND is highly unlikely to vary by more than one foot over the area of a typical GA airfield and in any event it appears to be promulgated as a single value for larger fields with instrument procedures.

[What is 'GUND'? It is the Geoid UNDulation. This is the difference in height between the simple ellipsoid used to approximate to the surface of the earth and the more complex geoid that better represents a 'level' surface as measured by surveying instruments.

In simple terms, it is a measure, for any point in the world, of the difference in height between the simplified shape of the earth used by GPS (the WGS84 datum) and the locally defined 'Mean Sea Level'.

MSL is between about 150 feet above the GPS defined shape of the earth in southern England, rising to about 190 feet in Scotland. Not enough to be significant for VFR navigation (even if you were stupid enough to use GPS for altitude) but very significant for the design of GPS approaches. There is a more thorough explanation here http://kartoweb.itc.nl/geometrics/reference%20surfaces/body.htm] (http://kartoweb.itc.nl/geometrics/reference%20surfaces/body.htm%5D)

IO540
4th Sep 2008, 09:01
The GUND value seems a weird thing to specify on approach plates, because any IFR certified GPS already contains a lookup table (covering the whole area of the basemap provided) containing values for the difference between true MSL and the geoid.

So, the IFR certified GPS will already read the correct altitude. As indeed my KLN94 does, everywhere I have been.

Some handheld units have this data in them too. This, I recall, was one of the differences between the SIRF2 and SIRF3 chips. My yoke-mounted Garmin 496 also reads the correct altitude, within a few feet. But my Emtac bluetooth GPS is 200ft out - same as most cheap GPSs are around the UK.

You want to post this in Usenet in sci.geo.satellite-nav if you want real expert input. I can post it there if you don't know how to access Usenet.

BTW there is nothing "stupid" about using GPS altitude. With the right kit, it is very accurate. Not as accurate as an altimeter set manually to read "310ft" when sitting at an airfield with a published 310ft elevation :) but a whole lot more accurate than the same altimeter will be once you are airborne to say 10,000ft, at some odd temperature to boot. With extreme deviations from ISA, the altimeter could easily be 500ft out at 10,000ft. The reason barometric altitude is used in aviation is for mutual separation of traffic, which is a different thing from absolute altitude accuracy.

Back to that Goodwood plate you reference, it seems particularly daft to litter it with not only the four GUND values, but also lat/long coordinates for the runway thresholds, given that nobody should actually be entering lat/long coordinates manually, ever, for any serious purpose (like flying approaches). A certified database will always be mandatory. I sense some little man at work here, being extremely anally retentive :)

Nipper2
4th Sep 2008, 16:44
IO540, thanks for your concise and precise answer, all of which I totally agree with.

On further reflection and with the benefit of having read your reply, I am now convinced that publishing the GUND and lat-lon values in this way is at best unnecessary clutter on the charts and at worst confusing and an encouragement to unsafe practices. I am all in favour of GPS navigation (used in the right way) but why on earth would the CAA want to do anything to encourage people to use cheap uncertified units without suitable databases for vertical navigation?

I'll write to the CAA and see what they have to say. I'll let you know if I get an answer.