Ormond Beach.

[cambridge]

Ormond Beach.
Can anyone clarify what is going on in Ormond Beach? I understand there has been a serious acccident and the Cessna fleet has been grounded by the FAA. Is this correct, and if so, why?
Grounding a Cessna fleet seems very drastic action!

[MIKECR]

Well a quick search on google tells me there was a cessna suffered an EFATO there 2 days ago. Aircraft landed on the golf course, both occupants safe and well, no major dramas. Is that what your referring to?

[flyasthesky]

This is really worrying me. I am due to start ppl training next week on the c150 in OBA.

[smalltown]

Better check that out as there was a crash 8/21/2007 not 2008 as far as I have checked. I can't see any flying being done in the last 5 days due to TS Fay

[Avyator]

So what is your source? I made a search at google without luck...

[waiterpilot]

Here (http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/8/23/fay_bails_out_plane_golf_course_landing.html) is a link to a plane down in the golf club next to KOMN (which incidentally does a fantastic BLT) yesterday as has been reported up there by MIKECR. Nothing major, doesn't say if it is OBA or not, one taken to hospital as a precaution.
I don't think the FAA would ground the whole cessna fleet based on one EFATO though... and don't forget they have a load of Cadets they just got that you could go on even if that is the case.

[waveydavey]

ASN Aircraft accident 23-AUG-2008 Cessna 152 N65436 (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=22571)

[matthewB]

Is there any update on this does anyone know?

[trigger0071]

As far as i'm aware none of the fleet have been grounded. A friend of mine is currently at OBA

I flew the 152 earlier this year, along with most of the 150's there. All i can say is that they are a bit tatty but all done the job.

[smalltown]

Well it looks like OBA is having a few problems with their aircraft engines. As they recently had one land on the US1 four lane

[doctordoom]

A bit tatty is an under statement they are tired old dogs that need to be put down. I have nothing against OBA but they could do with getting a new fleet. OBA is very lucky that they had instructors on the last two planes that went down. It is only a matter of time befor it happens to a student that mite not be able to deal with the problem. Givein the amount of students that go tru the place you would think it would be in the owners best intrests to give his students the best equipment he can.

[civil aviation]

1. OBA did have a brand new fleet of Libertys which were grounded by OBA early this year because of persistent manufacturing/quality 'problems' (see earlier threads).
2. FAA have been conducting a massive investigation into all (i.e. not just those at OBA) alleged Liberty problems and rumour is they will be reporting shortly. Presume that there are some major claims from Liberty owners so you can bet that none of them inc. OBA will comment until FAA report.
3. Recent 'crash' seems minor and, with the huge number of hours and students at OBA, the incident rate is probably less and OBA safer than 'average' FTO.

[cpl4hire]

Just a thought, but if you want to know whats going on why dont you just ring OBA. I am sure Adrian or one of the Instructors will be happy to tell you whats happening.

Ex OBA student

[chappers500]

I got my PPL from Ormond in May and the instructor involved in the crash was excellent - he taught me. The student would def be in safe hands.......

[civil aviation]

Good point (and applies equally to numerous other Wannabe 'queries' such as how much do ABC Flying School charge for....) but wasted on many who are:
Crash Spotters
OBA Knockers
Simple Nutters
The above are not usually interested in facts.

[rustydude]

im hoping to do my ppl there in about three months, do you guys recommend the place? hopefully they'll have a working fleet by then!

[Avyator]

Well, I would assume students would bleed money on all schools if they dont take things seriously. Which school did he recommend then?

[dcarroll]

Just back from OBA, got my ppl and quite happy overall. I started on the C150, lasted approx 9 hours and then changed over to the PA28, the main reason was the fact that they are old, instruments do not work, and engines have some serious internal problems that in my opinion contributed to the I-95 LANDING, emergency landing in Pladka Airport, and the golf course crash. All of the above incidents/accident suffered internal failures of some sort. Fuel contamination is suspected for the last accident but the fact that the aircraft flew for an hour before is strange and also that both student and instructor took a number of fuel samples during the PF. I enjoyed my training at OBA, but they seriously need to work on their management team, we are the customers who have paid hard earned money to be there and we are entitled to a quality service- speaking for myself and alot others-we did not get that. I personally will not return to OBA for further training, but that is my situation. On a brighter note the PA28 are a fantastic aircraft and a beautiful aircraft o fly. C150 are currently still flying as i left this week-but unless all engines are over-hauled or changed- I can seriously see a domino effect of what has previously happened(remember-these problems are non-detectable during 100hr inspection according to SF).
Safe Flying

[eninem]

DCarroll - when did you go there? I was there in Feb/Mar. Agree with you 100% The place is like a sausage factory. However, it is cheap. Not sure if it failed to meet my expectations as they were not high to start with.

As for going back there for CPL etc. I think I'll look elsewhere cos the focus is on PPL's and the attention to detail required for CPL students just ain't enough from what I've heard.

What with the forthcoming changes to visas and the changes and expectations re licencing in Europe, I think OBA will have a difficult future other than for hour building.

[civil aviation]

Who knows, or cares, what you've heard?
Like you, the OBA/USA haters have been predicting the demise of CAA/JAA training there for 20 years but, in fact, it's only got bigger with others joining the bandwagon and Cabair & co attempting to copy but shafting with surcharges.

Plenty of others have come and gone in the UK and USA but OBA has proved its staying power and popularity. You can bet that OBA is ahead of the latest game because, whatever you think about OBA, the owner is no-one's fool.

OBA has never claimed to be the place for poseurs and precious brats so, if you want your ego massaged, go elsewhere. If you want your licence or rating at lowest cost, OBA is the place so I have always been mystified by complaints about 'sausage factory' (=their predictably efficient methods) and 'penalties' (=sanctions on idiots for their lack of commitment, non-compliance etc.). Otherwise, it would be you (the serious clients) who would have to pay a lot more for what you want.

[eikido]

On their site they state a JAA PPL can be done in 21 days! Is this possible? Even if it was 1,5 month. Is it possible to do a JAA PPL in 1,5 month ??? :confused: It sounds crazy. In sweden they say 6-8 month (although not full time ofcours).

Eikido

[Katamarino]

I did my JAA PPL in 5 weeks in Florida (although not at OBA), not flying every day, and doing all 7 theory exams at the same time. So its definitely possible! :ok:

[eikido]

Amazing!!! I thought it was a joke when i heard it the first time.
Because i don't want to rush it. I want to fly MAX 2 hours a day. A friend told me it's quiet intense, each flight/hour.:uhoh:

So did you feel comfortable doing it in 5 weeks?
Because i don't feel like doing it in 21 days :}.

Eikido

[civil aviation]

I've heard that with favourable conditions and commitment, under 2 weeks has been achieved by some.
In UK, they say it takes months because of weather, lack of aircraft etc. but, on pay-as-you-go, the longer you take the more money they make !
If you find a 3 week course worrying, just ask OBA to quote for 5 or 6 weeks. As far I know, OBA will only charge you for extra accommodation time which was cheap and quite acceptable (modern single storey houses just outside the airport site). You could pay extra to guarantee your own en-suite room.

[Sensible]

The OBA aircraft may be old, well used or whatever you choose to call them but the fact is that although the airframes (the aircraft bodies) may be old, the engines are certainly not the originals, there is a limit on the number of hours (not miles) that an aircraft engine can be used before it is subject to a major overhaul which essentially means rebuilding the engine by a licensed engineering company to "as new" condition ("zero timed"). In the UK that is normally after around 2000 hours of use. The fact that an aircraft is say 30 years old does not mean that it has the same wheezy old engine in it as it rolled off the production line. Most of the accidents and incidents at OBA appear to be due to "pilot error". Not surprising really since most if not all of the pilots flying their aircraft are students or inexperienced pilots!

Personally, I have no confidence issues in flying an old aircraft since the maintenance of aircraft are subject to strict Civil or Federal Aviation rules regarding maintenance and engine rebuilding at set periods. Given the number of hours flown at OBA by inexperienced pilots, it is not surprising that there is the odd accident.

Yes, a PPL in 21 days is more than possible, it is likely in Florida! Allow much more time in the UK, almost certainly months! The Florida JAA schools certainly know their stuff when it comes to getting you through a PPL at minimum cost! A PPL is a PPL the only difference is on cost!

How is Adrian of OBA fame these days? is he old and grey or old and bald? Certainly, he is no fool when it comes to PPL training, bad attitude or not!;)

[suraci]

I did PPL in a tad under 2 weeks a few years back at OBA (and lost some flying days due wx); it was heavy going but as I wouldn't describe myself as a latter day Yeager I don't see why any similar half sensible ham fisted wannabee can't do it in 3 weeks provided they put the effort in and don't get totally screwed by weather.

[Katamarino]

So did you feel comfortable doing it in 5 weeks?
Because i don't feel like doing it in 21 days .

I felt perfectly comfortable with this - even found time for a long weekend away across the other side of the state! Just make sure you're focused, and its not a difficult task at all.

[waveydavey]

I did my PPL at OBA in 3 weeks... it was no problem as long as you study sufficiently prior to getting out there. There was a couple of people that didn't complete in the 3 weeks but most did.
I didn't find it intense at all and enjoyed my time there.

[TicketyBlue]

I took the afternoon off work, went to OBA, passed all my theory exams and completed the PPL the following day (I had to wait until the evening to do my night flying). Show me a pilot who has come fresh from OBA after 4 or 5 weeks training and can successfully navigate in the UK and I'll show you a picture of Lord Lucan taking his pet dodo for a walk. You WILL need additional training when you return. Civil Aviation, stop banging your OBA drum. OBA will get you the ticket, if you're committed. Now Stephen Fisher is in charge and most, if not all, of the instructors have left. That, coupled by 3 recent engine failures is writing on the wall, as far as I'm concerned. The sad fact is, there is not 1 JAA school in Florida at the moment that can be recommended.

[eikido]

That is what i thought.
A friend told me you won't feel as safe when taking the PPL that fast as someone who did it in months. Plus the different climate in SE/UK.
I guess I will need further instruction when i get back if i do it in the US.

I still don't know when to start training. I want to start tomorrow but I hope i can do it in January.:}
I'm dependent of 1-2 friends. We're going to do it together.


Regards
Eikido

[mcgoo]

TicketyBlue, I'd like to see that photo of Lord Lucan taking his pet dodo for a walk, I know a fair few people who got their PPL at OBA and just had a 1 hour checkflight at their respective schools upon their return and were signed off.

[eikido]

1 hour checkflight? What for?

The JAA PPL is valid in all JAA countries?

Eikido

[mcgoo]

I don't know of any clubs where you can just roll up and rent an aircraft without having a checkflight with an instructor, do you?

[lastmanstanding]

Nope (McGoo)

Flown a few at different locales and always had to do a check ride. Even went back to OBA for hours and had to do a check 2 months after at the place I passed at!!

Good wee school, with some decent FI's. 0-PPL in 16 days. Even bolted on 10 hrs at the end within my 3 weeks. :D

[Francie81]

Am looking towards a flying career with no experience at all and I want to go to OBA next year to do my PPL BUT is it essential you need some kind of experience or study under your belt to complete it in 3 weeks? I am reading a flight manual if that helps so am not completely useless?

Thanks,
Francie

[eikido]

Aha, a checkride for your club. I get it. Reasonable.

But if you guys do JAA PPL in 2-3 weeks, how many hours did you fly a day?

Eikido

[selfin]

MEPr in 1-2 weeks, CPL in 2-3 weeks, IR in 3-5 weeks, type rating in 3-5 weeks... you have a valid reason to suggest the PPL should be dragged out over months?

[Rednex]

18 days start to finish. Hard work but fun. Training as a whole good. Many years ago and now. 3 of us on same course are now TREs in the same airline. Small world...

[Paris Dakar]

eikido,

Yes, it totally do-able but ask yourself one question 'am I the sort of person who can hack an intensive course?' If the answer is yes, then go for it.

As for those who talk about about Lord Lucan and question a two-week PPL - you're entitled to your opinions just the like the rest of are. Yep, did mine in 14 days (13 years ago) and a list of willing volunteers (should that be guinea pigs :E) willing to join me - including all of my family who have flown with me numerous times.

I've never encountered any issues with checkouts whether it be here in the UK or Florida and California.

[eikido]

OK, here is the question.

Which one is more quality?

PPL in 3 weeks or 6 weeks or maybe even any other period?

Eikido

[Paris Dakar]

eikido,

I enjoyed superb weather and didn't encounter a single non-flying day so perhaps I was lucky? The duration of the course was three weeks but I'd actually booked four weeks to allow for poor weather and the fact I might need extra hours if I was struggling with the course. Always build some contingency time into your plans - always!

[spannatime]

I can't see what the big deal is with this. If you don't think you could complete an intensive training course and fly safely, so what? Don't do it, as you probably wouldn't pass the course within the time anyway. Not everyone does.
Myself and others have done it and are enjoying flying safely in the UK as a result if that training.

[Sensible]

Yikes, is it true that Stephen Fisher is connected with OBA now? I remember that name and it is connected with all sorts of odd goings on. I hope that AT is aware of his rather chequered history!!!!

Edit:
look at this link:
http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/156282-ifta-going-going-gone.html

Lots more if you care to search "IFTA" or "Stephen Fisher"

My understanding is that IFTA was another XL disaster albeit on a smaller scale and with the exception that nobody was "ATOL" protected!

[civil aviation]

I think you'll find that Fisher is (like Paul Thompson -no relation of Adrian) simply a Florida-based CAA examiner for professional stuff and not involved, financially, in OBA in any way.
Their compliance is the responsibility of the CAA not the FTO's.

[matthewB]

Who is Stephen Fisher? Is Adrian no longer there?
I'm getting wee bit nervous at the moment because I'm booked to go to OBA in November, and all of a sudden the prices are going up, new management, crashes, and all the instructors are leaving.

I'm committed now because I almost have my M20 visa and changing all of that is going to take another 3 months! Just got to hope that everything is cool there.

[UAV689]

whats going on with the prices there? im doing a bit of forward planning with regard finances and in this months flyer the 100 hrs is quoted as £6397, now go online and it is £8065!! +26% :eek:. thats £80 an hour, i know places in UK that are £80-85 an hour if these prices are correct it does seem a bit pointless going there now, in fact recently saw a share in a 150 for £999 with flying £60 per hour wet - shame i have been a student with them before and enjoyed myself and was looking forward to flying there again.

[mikehammer]

Indeed, I have a share in a TB9 at a local airfield, and it's £70 per hour wet. Cost me £1500 to buy in although that was some years ago. I'd say that your C150 angle far outweighs Ormond Beach, but in the name of fairness and reasonableness, Adrian Thompson and I are the antithesis of good friends. I was once a student at his school and he threw me out after an argument over money, when I suggested he take me to court to recover what he reckoned I owed him (my opinion is I owed him nothing). It was 2 days before Christmas, which was a nice touch.

Mods on here have my details already, I'll happily stand by my testimony, and I have a witness to his dragging me from a classroom.

The aircraft were at best tatty then, sounds like things have at least not improved.

Not a pleasant man. Not a pleasant experience: one which clearly I will endeavour not to forget.

[Sensible]

I totally concurr with spicejetter!! I would also add that no matter how well you think that you are getting on with AT, the relationship can and does change in an instant and YOU will be the loser. Don't believe the propaganda that it is only the timewasters who fall foul of despots!

Just be aware and have a plan "B" if you go there especially now that the terrible twins are together at OBA! AT & SF.

[smalltown]

AMEN AMEN BUYER BEWARE

OBA is not what they advertise and AT is differently not a very nice man.

[civil aviation]

OBA is great place with many thousands of satisfied customers.

Like anywhere successful, OBA has attracted a little gang of haters and nutters, who pose as victims, so this advice will probably be ignored:

1. Hasn't anyone noticed that £=$1.75 instead of $2 + ? That said, OBA is probably still cheapest for courses but there was/is always somewhere cheaper (than anywhere you chose !) for hour-building. However, don't make the mistake of deluding yourself with a false comparison e.g. a share may involve you in 'unlimited' liability and overheads. There is, also, the factor of where is it ? (e.g. Naples and Ormond Beach are definitely nicer than Orlando, Florida, Cowtown Kansas or Shoreham Sussex) and can you actually achieve the hours because of weather, aircraft availability, airport opening etc.? Be wary, also, about 'headline' rates per hour- they omit to mention extras such as landing fees, accommodation, club sub, insurance, fuel surcharges etc.

2. On the behavioural front, any school/hotel has no reasonable alternative to excluding naughty boys/people who won't pay. Responding stupidly by inviting them to sue you is a blanket denial, as well as extremely rude and simply asking to be taildragged off their premises if you've had both the cheek and courage to remain !

3. OBA tell me that Mr Fisher is simply paid (for whatever he does there) = employee not proprietor. In any case, abusing Fisher,Thompson etc.with posts on a forum for professional/student pilots is not .... 'sensible'- they are both experienced CAA examiners and are entitled, if not obliged, to defend their personal and professional reputations so you are, also, causing trouble for PPRuNe which publishes such defamation.

[Ogie]

Hi. I just came back from oba yesterday.4 and a half weeks and I have my PPL. I was grounded for half a week with the weather but apart from that was flying everyday. It was hard work doing the exams and the flying in that short space of time but definately do able if your motivated enough.
I have no major gripes with the place. The organisation at times was a little messed up but nothing major. Adrian is grand. You don't really meet him until your checkride. I thought he was sound enough. The instructors there at the minute all seem to be good and interested in what they are doing. How long they stay and teach is another question.
Stephen Fisher is there as head instructor and also does the checkrides for CPL. Again didn't have many dealings with him but he seems to be a bit of a spoon to be honest. He only come in for a feww days and then heads off again and you won't see him for a week or two. Things run alot smoother when he is not there.

Overall though I found it quite good. At the end of the day I went over to get my PPL and to get it done quicker and cheaper than at home.

Misssion Acomplished.

[eikido]

Cool mate. How much did you end up paying for absolutly everything.
And how many hours did you do?

Regards
Eikido

[smalltown]

Is Ken and Bill still at the school?

[vlieger]

Ken's gone.
I'm at OBA at the moment for hour-building. Availability of the Warriors is actually very good now. Hope it lasts...

[sevenstar]

Where did Ken go?

[Mordacai]

Steve is alright....you could do a lot worse than listen to him....a spoon?? hmmmm, not sure I agree with that!

[kestrel101]

Thanks ogie, do you get a night rating at oba and if so how did you find it.

[Ogie]

frankly it's something I would be wary of. Steve tried to ntroduce a new thing for the instructors to teach us students. He tried to say that we should have both hands on the controls when landing. I know that I am only new to this but to me but that seems silly. I mean what if something happens and you need an immediate input of power. To me that second or two where you reach for the power could be crucial especially for the student who may panic and miss the power or something. For a professional this seems to me a bad way to go about it and all the instructors that i spoke to about it agreed.

As for the night rating it was included in the price. They give you 3 hours dual night then 2 hours solo. I took the three hours dual and decided to give the 2 hours solo a miss. I wasn't comfortable on my own so I figured I would concentrate on the ppl and could always get the night rating again.

Ken is gone from the school. Bill is there alright. He is good craic. When you meet him first you think whats up his a** but infact he is really good. He gives you a good kick if you need it.

The price all in was around 5-6 grand. I haven't quite gotten round to doing my maths on the money yet ;)

Again I had no problems with the school and am only offering my opinions. You can take them or leave them.

[matthewB]

Ahhh, this is so good to hear. With under 4 weeks before I get to OBA it's nice to read some positive experiences and hear from freshly passed students who are happy with their time there.

Congrats on the pass Ogie and good luck with the rest of it vlieger.

Matt

[ulsterflyer]

I finished my PPL at OBA on 18th Sept. I got my PPL and night rating in 3 weeks and all for under £5k. It's tough going getting all the written exams and flight training finished in that time especially as I didn't get a chance to study before I went out there.
Overall I was very satisfied with my training and felt I got good value for money. I went there to get a PPL at minimum cost and in minimum time and that's what I got. I trained on the Piper PA-28 which I really enjoyed flying and there was no problem regarding availability. The instructors
are helpful and they make every effort to get you through your training within your timescale.
My advice to prospective students would be study before you go, be prepared to work hard when you are there and know exactly what you are paying for when you make the up front payment. Other pointers would be keep an eye on your dual time as you'll get charged should you exceed the dual hours specified in your package and don't pay for a transfer back to the airport - it's just not worth it!
It is an intensive course which will not suit everyone as different people learn at different rates but like Ogie, my experience of OBA is a positive one.

[eikido]

Cool guys.

However, where did you guys take your medical 2?
Also, where can i get my hands on the reading material to study before i go? I'm thinking of going somewhere in January.

Regards
Eikido

[G CEXO]

I am actually very interested in training at OBA, but I need a serious and honest opinion because finance for me is not the concern, the level of tution and time frame is what I'm looking for. Will I recieve the same level of high instruction UK schools provide and will I be able to adapt myself in UK airspace when I have completed the PPL in the states? Will they also accept my JAA PPL exam passes I already have?

This is a serious question for me and a true and accurate overlook of OBA instruction will be appareciated.

Many thanks,

G-XO

[nh2301]

If finance is tight, then don't waste money on a JAA PPL in the US. You can get an FAA certificate from any of hundreds of schools for thousands of dollars less.

[eikido]

Do you mean we should convert? Or?
Because as you know, we need JAA to be able to fly in europe.

Eikido

[Paris Dakar]

G CEXO,

Check your PM

[nh2301]

My comment was directed toward people from the UK, where you can fly with an FAA PPL.

[zippi]

I would avoid Ormond Beach Aviation at all costs!!!!!

If you are are on any time or financial budget, forget it. Very few students pass the PPL course within 21 days - even those that are not lazy! The first day I arrived there was no instructor available and from then on I was only scheduled for 1 or 2 hours per day. I also lost time because of the weather - between August and December it's hurricane season, so if you are going for 3 or more weeks, you have a really good chance of bad weather interrupting your flying.

I regretted going to OBA soon after my arrival. I realised that there was almost no chance of getting the PPL in 21 days and was disappointed by the accommodation - it's more economical to stay in a nearby hotel and to hire a car. The price did not include everything as is promised. However, after having travelled 4000 miles and done all the visa paperwork, your more or less stuck - at best, you are going to be seriously out of pocket. If you choose to cancel, OBA will take a 25% cut of the total fee paid - even if you stay for the full 21 days and haven't finished the course.

The management is apalling - the place is really run like a factory production line. The management seem to show very little interest in the welfare of the students. The instructors are good, but they are generally discontent as their conditions of employment are pretty bad. Needless to say, instructor turnover at OBA is very high.

The Cessna's are ropey as suggested by the alarming number of technical failures at OBA lately - they are just old and haven't aged well. The Warriors are better, but you'll pay more and when I was there there supply didn't meet demand.

In the end I had to leave without completing the course as I couldn't get enough time off work. I think I would have had to stay around an extra two weeks to finish the course which would have cost me considerably.

When I add everything up and take into consideration the problems I encountered at the school and the hassle of the visa application process I really don't think it's worth going to OBA. The cost of flights to Florida, accommodation and visa make the savings on UK training marginal when all is said and done.

[mcgoo]

it's more economical to stay in a nearby hotel and to hire a car.

I would be very interested to know where you found in the Ormond/Daytona area to rent a hotel and car for 7 nights for $200.

[DUXBY]

I would avoid Ormond Beach Aviation at all costs


I would agree with virtually everything you said. In this present climate with the current exchange rates I would advise anyone going out there to do their calculations carefully. You can probably get just as good a deal in the UK.

As you say the biggest pain was sorting out the visas, I had to keep ringing up the FAA in Oklahoma and there was no help from the school whatsoever.

All do yourselves a favour do your ppl in the UK. You will have more time to study and refine you flying skills and will probably be a safer pilot.

[njptvr]

Zippi when were you out at OBA? Recently?

The current situation with the dollar does make the financial side of things less appealing though I think all in all the dollar rate of flying still has it which just leaves the weather as an advantage.

Think I will still be doing my PPL in the USA as I prefer learning in intense blocks but not all of my hours building. Going to do about 50% in the USA and then come back and spend some time in UK airspace with a local flying club.

[civil aviation]

The two recent positive posts from genuine students from Ireland seem to contrast almost totally with the negative stories from London. They're so different someone must be lying.

Unless it's changed, OBA always quoted fixed prices and were paid in pounds or euros so no-one need be concerned about the $ exchange rate or the hidden surcharges which make their competitors a lot more expensive.

Accommodation was quiet/spacious/convenient/acceptable for training purposes (and probably better than most students' homes !). If you are shy, you could pay a small supp. for en-suite double as single occupancy. Get real -you aren't on honeymoon or holiday and, also, what do you reasonably expect to be included in a course price which is excellent value?

The notion that you can get just as good a deal in UK is rubbish, if you compare the cost of all that OBA include but which are usually hidden extras in the UK i.e. not included in the course price estimates.

[captain_rossco]

met Fischer last year hour building, has he got a bad record? Just finshed at OAA and was considering popping out there for some more hours. What are the police files in question?
Regards
CR

[eikido]

BTW.

Does it matter if one does the PPL in min hours (45h)?
I don't see why one couldn't do the PPL in, for example, 80-90h to be extra safe for the flyup. Because shouldn't you be able to count in all the hours from the PPL schooling torwards the CPL if you meet the min requirements (100h pic...)?

Eikido