PPL costs

[benish]

Hi, Im just wondering how much you lot have paid for a PPL, from people both who trained in the UK or in Florida abroad.

I am trying to weigh up the pros and cons. I know I can do a PPL for 4k in Florida but what other expenses are to be paid? food, accomadation, leisure, visa ....

Any info from anyone thats trained over there would be of great help.

Thanks

Ben

[civil aviation]

True but be careful that you clarify and have in writing from the FTO what exactly is included/excluded in their 'course' price. Also, make sure that they confirm if the prices are a quotation or, simply, an estimate.
Wherever you go, you will have to pay for your transport, food and 'leisure' (unless you're happy walking while gathering and eating insects and wild fruit) but, more seriously, make sure you get them to confirm in writing if their price includes or you have to pay (extra) for:
Accomodation (also check what it is and if it's actually available)
Course materials
Exams (and how many attempts are included)
Fuel (surcharges)
Headset
Other Ratings (e.g. night and RT)
Visa related costs

Some of the above will be (a lot) extra at FTO's in both Florida and England.
For Florida, enquire of:
Naples, OFT and Ormond Beach Aviation

This will probably be followed by postings from assorted knockers, nutters and promoters but, believe me, every FTO has its friends and foes.

[Whirlygig]

The £4k quoted will only be on the assumption that you pass in minimum hours. You will therefore, need to find their normal hourly rate and budget for extra hours in case you don't get in 45 hours (JAA figures).

You will also need to factor in aircraft availability and serviceability and yes, even in the States, weather! So if a school claims they can get you through a PPL in 3 weeks, I'd budget on accommodation for 6 weeks to be safe. I may also want to factor in a loss of earnings figure - even if you're between school and uni, you could still earn some money here!

If you do go to the US to learn, I'd advise doing your theory exams in the UK first (whether FAA or JAA).

Cheers

Whirls

[b.a. Baracus]

My advice would be to do your sums, I went abroad and by the time I had paid for training, accomodation, food, etc, it was 6 and 2 3's between doing it abroad and in the UK. I was told 3 weeks if everything is going for you, but 4 at the most. No try 6, and even then I had to do my skills test in the UK. Weather was a constant problem, you could set your watch by the thunderstorms, this usually knocked out any chance of training between 1.30 to about 4ish every day.... I didnt even get off the ground for the first 6 days! :hmm: If you do go abroad, it is good advice to try and get the written exams out the way as soon as possible.

[GS-Alpha]

I personally think training for a PPL in the States is a false economy. Training in the UK will probably cost you a little bit more, but it will likely be in the area where you intend to fly once you have your licence. Also, the savings from learning in the states are not that great, once you have factored in transport, accommodation and possible additional required training/testing. Besides, providing money to the UK's flying schools will help our economy, and perhaps be the difference between your local flying school remaining in operation or folding. I do not know your circumstances, but it may just be that you will need that local flying school for the purposes of hiring aircraft once you have obtained your licence? I figure if you are happy to pay the cash to fly for fun in the UK once you have your licence, you might as well do your training here too?

I have just started a PPL(H) and intend to do all of my training here in the UK, despite the fact that I am generally in the states two or three times a month. Once I have the licence, I may start hiring the odd R22 whilst over there, but that will be in addition to the flying I will continue to do in the UK.

GS

[preduk]

I'm moving up to Inverness due to the costs at my local airport, they are charging £4,500 for the full PPL training and £10 a night for accomendation.

I agree with GS-Alpha, training abroad doesn't cost less for the economy, infact is more likely British flight schools may have to push prices up if everyone dissapears over to the US.

[Re-Heat]

Having flown in both the US and UK, but trained here in the UK - I would recommend doing only the basics in the US, if you are going to do anything at all, then completing the nav and doing the test back in the UK.

There is nothing like planning for UK weather and airspace - you will learn far more doing that here for your long-term benefit.

[abzyyy]

care to share the name of the place that your going up to?? for 4.5 grand thats not bad!:ok:

[preduk]

Highland Flying School - Home (http://www.highlandflyingschool.co.uk/)

I thought it was a bit dodgy, but asking my flight instructor and people on the private flying forum they have all made good comments about the school.

[stealth101]

Hey,

I was in the same two minds when doing my PPL, however I now know that i should have never choosen to do my PPL in the UK.

I wasted so much money with cancellations, tech problems with the aircraft, unreliable weather, not enough aircraft, not enough instructors, the list goes on and on.

I think its lovely to fly in the UK as it is home but in terms of the pound sign £££ which is the thing we all are concern about i have wasted an extra £2750 then if I had done it in the USA.

However GS-Alpha does have valid points and providing business to our local flying schools is really important as so many of them are closing down.

Hope it helps

[Gertrude the Wombat]

It's still the wrong question, unless you just want to get the PPL to prove to yourself that you can do it, and never fly again once you've got the licence. (Nothing wrong with that BTW.)

Assuming you want to keep flying, the question is "can I afford the £2k/£5k/whatever each and every year to keep flying once I've got the licence?"

The £6k or £9k or whatever it costs to get the licence in the first place is not, in comparison, a big deal, as it's a one-off cost which you can save up in advance, or simply add this amount to your mortgage and you won't notice it.

So, one answer is that you have no capital and no mortgage but can afford £2k/year, then it'll take you maybe three or four years to get the licence, but you'll be flying for those three or four years and you'll be able to keep flying afterwards. This may or may not be better for you than spending all your money in one go in Florida, then losing the licence because you can't afford to keep it up - to get more helpful advice you could give as a clue as to why you want to learn to fly and what you want to do with the PPL

(The other hidden cost of getting a licence in Florida, by the way, is that you'll still have to pay for some lessons when you get back to the UK in order to learn your way round the UK's weather, airspace and RT.)

[benish]

Hi thanks for all your replies.

Gertrude, I aim to become a commercial pilot so I want to go the full way. In one ear Im getting the "doing the ppl in the area youll do a cpl is better" arguement, but another arguement, including the one my instructor has said is, "america will save you the most money in the long run if you need it for cpl and further..."

I am from bradford and Im training at Multiflight at leeds bradford. The weather is terrible. In 6 weeks ive had about 18 lessons cancelled, and Ive only managed 2.

Its really annoying me now, I had hoped to have a PPL by the new year soi then I could start on the ATPL exams.

Im looking at going to flyoba or flyoft or maybe London aviation in naples where multiflight have a partnership for their ab initio course.

Thanks

Ben

[IO540]

Surely if one is working towards a commercial job, rather than flying privately, one needs to be strategic about which bits of paper one wants to collect.

Can one do a complete JAA CPL/IR or ATPL in the USA? I don't think so - European protectionism rules here.

If working towards a bizjet job then an FAA ATPL might be good (unless EASA succeeds is its currently published proposal to strip all European resident pilots of foreign license privileges while flying in Europe) but those jobs seem hard to get for a novice.

One can do a JAA PPL in the USA - half a dozen schools in Florida and one in California. Those hours will count back in the UK.

[Barkinman]

I did my PPL with Air Desert Pacific in California, a proffessional outfit with enough plane so that you get to fly several times a day. The fly from Bracket Field which has parrallel runways in use all the time a little scarry at first but great experience if you plan to move on to higher ratings.
They can arrange accomodation and have various levels to help you on cost.
It took me just 16days to get my initial PPL. I swoted for the FAA exams using King schools material and then sat the exam on the day of arrival at ADP. There are also Medical examiners locally if you need the medical.

[Julian]

The £6k or £9k or whatever it costs to get the licence in the first place is not, in comparison, a big deal,

I personally think training for a PPL in the States is a false economy.

If that is all it costs, someone I worked with spent £17k getting his in Manchester in just over 12 months. One of the things that seems to push prices up here is all the addiiontial costs the school doesnt mention to you at first such as away landing fees, approach fees, etc. The flying afterwards is cheaper as you dictate how much you want to do, you can even look at group flying to reduce your costs (cue Rod1 selling the LAA :} - which I am all for by the way :ok:)

(The other hidden cost of getting a licence in Florida, by the way, is that you'll still have to pay for some lessons when you get back to the UK in order to learn your way round the UK's weather, airspace and RT.)

Also, the savings from learning in the states are not that great, once you have factored in transport, accommodation and possible additional required training/testing.

Some unscrupulous schools will try and tell you need another 10hrs or so on return to the UK but thats b*ll*cks! I came straight home and just did a 1 hr checkout to hire.

Airspace you pick up pretty quickly, if you have done your JAA PPL in the US then you will already know it anyway as you will have had to pass an exam in it.

Weather is weather, the US gets crap weather as well no matter what people try and tell you. Florida I hear gets some pretty interesting storms.

Transport is something I have to pay here anyway so dont even bother factoring that in..


If you can get the time off work then go do it in the US. You WILL save money compared to here, not just in finshing earlier but in all the associated costs of cancelled lessons.

However, do you research before you book. As with any outfit, UK or US, there are some cowboys out there so ask around and get reccommendations as one of the down sides is you wont really be able to visit the school before you book.

I would also suggest doing your exams in the UK before you go, then you just have to concentrate on the flying.

And finally, if you are worrying doing in the US will affect your chances of going commercial then it wont. I know several people who did the FAA -> JAA route (and as a bonus you end with TWO licences dont forget), and and are now flying commercially on such aircraft as A320s, King Airs and CJs.

J.

[IO540]

If one is going to do the FAA PPL then I would recommend Arizona or similar, because the weather risk is practically zero. I did my IR there. They get 363 flying days a year.

I think the "UK weather" bit is overdone. If you are VFR-only then you cannot go into cloud legally, and if you don't have instrument skills you must not go into cloud at all. So, this means that while flying around Arizona you might cancel 0.5% of flights, and in the UK you might cancel 50% to 75% of flights - on the simple basis of actual or forecast weather. The flying itself is just the same!

The radio is different. U.S. radio tends to be rather more casual which is OK once you work it out. There are a few important differences but they are easy enough to pick up. The biggest one is that U.S. Class D can be entered on the basis of a radio contact, whereas European Class D needs an explicit clearance (and UK treats it like Class B, while France treats it pretty informally in most places).

Then, especially once you have 100 hours, you can convert the FAA PPL to a JAA PPL, by sitting (I vaguely recall) 2 or 3 of the JAA exams, and a checkride. Then you have two separate licenses. The FAA one lasts for life and only the FAA can take it away.

The TSA and Visa process is a hassle but I have a checklist - email me if you want a copy.

Despite the EASA moves etc I would still do the FAA PPL in the USA, and use the money saved to get currency over here. Currency is what it is all about - no good getting the piece of paper and not flying. After a few months of not flying you will be useless. Then one can get the JAA PPL.

Currently, you can fly a G-reg on any ICAO PPL, worldwide VFR.

I paid £8.5k for my JAA PPL in 2000 (65 hrs - about average for age 43) and today it would be more like £10k. In the USA it would be about £4k plus a cheap motel and food and airline tickets, which is not a vast saving IF one is actually going to fly afterwards (as Gertrude says) but the key aspect is that if you go to Arizona you can knock off the whole lot without wasting time. The equivalent UK-based project would be to set up camp near an airfield and fly every day, but unless you get very lucky you will still get a load of cancellations and it will take several months, which is not acceptable for a full time project unless one is unemployed and a loner. Done conventionally (slotting lessons between "life" and job) a PPL takes around 1 year over here, and much of the training is wasted due to breaks.

I know a few people who have spent £20k and still didn't get there, but in those cases it was either someone (who could not fly and was just doing it for the fun) or there was a large element of instructor dishonesty (deliberately knocking a female customer' confidence at regular intervals so as to get more money out of them). In the latter case, the worst practitioner I saw vanished without trace after doing this for a few years.