About FAA C.F.I. (Certified Flying Instructor)

[Droste]

I have questions about getting FAA CFI with credits based on JAA FIC (already a holder of JAA Instructor Rating).

For a holder of JAA Instructor Rating (licence been verified by FAA) who is going to get a FAA CFI, my questions are:
Q1. Does the holder requires to sit for the FAA CFI oral?
Q2. Does the holder requires to sit for the FAA CFI plus FOI knowledge tests?
Q3. How many hours will be required prior to go for the flight test?
Q4. Is the flight test going to be tested by FAA Inspector?

1. Kindly don't ask me why I need to do get a FAA CFI.
2. I understand FAA CPL (I/R) is a must for getting initial C.F.I.

[Duchess_Driver]

Led to believe that there are no credits for issue here.

Just looked at this myself and my source stateside has said that yes, you need to do the FOI test, yes you have to do the oral, yes you have to do the skills test and the minimum number of hours is as stated in the FAR AIMS.

However, he pointed out that most of the applicants for the C.F.I. fail (or at least partial) the initial attempt as they're not prepared for the depth of the questioning that the examiner goes to. As an existing instructor, even though this is a JAA ticket, you should be well practiced with the patter and the exercises - and have a greater understanding of the subjects and the level of detail you'd need to explain to a PPL student.

Willing to be proved wrong. Sure someone will advise chapter and verse here.

DD

[Tootles the Taxi]

Droste

Been there, done that....

1.Yes
2.Yes
3.As required based on JAA CPL experience; may need to complete additional night cross-country/IFR flights to meet FAA experience requirements.
4.Yes.

FAA Commercial Pilot Certificate, Instrument Rating & FoI are mandatory prerequisites of CFI training.

Recommend obtaining a copy of FAR/AIM 2008.

[421C]

I did an FAA CFI, after a JAA CRI and agree
1. Yes
2. Yes

3. Your are likely to have the minimum experience hours needed already. There is no minimum training hours or mandatory 'approved course' as per JAA. You simply need to find an Instructor and train until he is willing to sign you off to take the test. Their are some stylistic differences in how a ground briefing is done, how lesson plans look and specific demonstrations in the air you need to do the FAA way.

4. No. The FSDO needs to be notified of the initial CFI test and have the right insist an FAA Examiner conducts it, but in practice a DPE is likely to do it.

Also, if you are an experienced twin pilot, you may find it easier to do the MEI as your initial CFI, then add on the ASEL CFI. The Initial CFI checkride and oral is the most demanding.

[Droste]

Thank you for the above replies! It is a useful thread for those pursing FAA CFI whilst holding foreign instructor rating/licence.

most of the applicants for the C.F.I. fail (or at least partial) the initial attempt as they're not prepared for the depth of the questioning that the examiner goes to.Thank you Duchess_Driver! Informative! Yet, I hate to read this. :bored:

Seems like there's no leeway of passing a student even though he is holding a foreign instructor rating/licence. :(

3.As required based on JAA CPL experience; may need to complete additional night cross-country/IFR flights to meet
FAA experience requirements.Thank you Tootles the Taxi! However, '421C' replied in no.3 of his post #4 to my question no. 3 (in my post #1) and that is the answer I want to know. :)

FAA Commercial Pilot Certificate, Instrument Rating & FoI are mandatory prerequisites of CFI training.
I already knew and that's why I wrote in purple in my post #1

[Droste]

Fantastic! You have gone through this route of getting a FAA CFI.

I have three questions (for 421C or anybody who can answer) after reading 421C's post (in #4).
4. No. The FSDO needs to be notified of the initial CFI test and have the right insist an FAA Examiner conducts it, but in practice a DPE is likely to do it.Q1. So, is the FSDO going to assign a DPE to do the test? Or are we allow to choose any DPE to do the test?
Also, if you are an experienced twin pilot, you may find it easier to do the MEI as your initial CFI, then add on the ASEL CFI. The Initial CFI checkride and oral is the most demanding.I always thought the initial CFI has to be a ASEL CFI first before you are allow to do MEI. Now, I understand a little bit better.

Oral is the most "sickening" part. :ugh: If I were to do MEI, then the oral is going to be even more demanding! Isn' it? "MEI oral + Initial oral = Long long hours of oral". Probably, the duration of oral exam is going to last from morning till evening.

Q2. Since you wrote "if you are an experienced twin pilot, you may find it easier to do the MEI as your initial CFI, then add on the ASEL CFI", my question to this is, shouldn't it be the same for an experienced SE instructor to do FAA (ASEL) CFI as initial?

Q3. A foreign instructor decided to do FAA (ASEL) CFI as his Initial, is he required to be trained and to demonstrate proficiency in 'retractable gear' plane?

[421C]

Q1. No, you/your Instructor/your school will arrange with a DPE to do the test, but in the process of doing this, the FSDO is notified and they have the right to insist an FAA Examiner does it.

Although there are a lot of good flight schools all over the US, one advantage I've found of going to Florida in particular, is that there is so much training that you can more easily book a checkride at short notice, because there are a lot of DPEs available. When I thought of doing the CFI whilst on a vacation in LA, the school seemed to find the whole process of organising a CFI checkride a bit difficult. In Florida, this was not a problem. Obvisouly, this is just a tiny sample, but I do get the impression that checkrides elsewhere need a bit of planning to fit into your schedule and that they are available pretty much on-demand in Florida.

The MEI Initial oral isn't a super long oral. It has some MEI-specific content, but omits a lot of content on the various ASEL maneuvers.

The oral is nothing to be scared of. It's all laid out in the excellent "Oral Prep Guides" you can buy from ASA or Jeppesen. Firstly, you should be comfortable with much of it with your background. Secondly, your Instructor won't send you to test unless you are prepared; he will probably do many hours of groundschool to prepare you for the oral. Finally, I've never found a DPE to be anything other than fair - they need to determine that you are at the right standard, but they conduct the test in a way that let's you demonstrate that, not in a way to catch you out.

Q2. Yes, absolutely, the typical way is to do the ASEL CFI Initial. I just mention the MEI Initial, because sometimes people aren't aware of that option.

Q3. Good question and not sure; check FAR/AIM (14 CFR) - it's all available online, as are all the publications you need
14 CFR part 61
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations: (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14)
Written test guides
Education & Research (http://www.faa.gov/education_research/)

In particular, take a look at the FAA Handbooks available here
Aviation (http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/)
(browse all 3 categories on the left: aircraft, aviation, examiners)

for example the Aviation Instructors Handbook
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/media/FAA-H-8083-9.pdf


The FAA publish for free pretty much all you need to earn all of the FAA qualifications.

[Tootles the Taxi]

421C

Q1. No, you/your Instructor/your school will arrange with a DPE to do the test, but in the process of doing this, the FSDO is notified and they have the right to insist an FAA Examiner does it.


Perhaps this is a local thing but in the SW region all initial CFI checks are now conducted by an FAA inspector as opposed to a DPE (I'm told by the FSDO).

[421C]

Tootles,
I googled this question, and think you are right that the FSDOs control of the initial CFI checkride is closer than the impression I got in Florida a couple of years ago. As I understand it, some FSDOs will do all initial checkrides, some will have 'special' DPEs they permit to do them. It seems that schools can no longer select the DPE, the FSDO does that if they chose to use a DPE.

It seems like a local school will have the best knowledge on local practices.

On another note, I didn't realise the CFI-I could also be your "initial" CFI qualification; it can

rgds
421C

[B200Drvr]

Normal DE's cannot test for an initial CFI, they are specially designated this authority by the local FSDO, Most of the initials done in Central FL are done at the FSDO. Be very careful if you are going to do the CFI-I as your initial ride, it is a lot to take on, at ORL FSDO you can expect an oral of about 8 hours just for the CFI, they will cut you no slack and you could be looking at an oral over two days if you add the Instrument. I whole heartedly agree about the MEI as an initial, this is what I did, and then did the SEL and I-I as an add on a week later. Good luck.

[runway16]

A slight drift of the thread.

What is the minimum flight hours that a guy should have to become a JAA flight instructor?

I understand that the FAA does not have a minimum except of course to have a commercial certificate and have done an instructors course.

Please, keep the answers to just the above.

R16

[Tootles the Taxi]

http://www.caa.co.uk (http://www.caa.co.uk/)

Use the search function to find Lasors.

Section H, H1.2

FI(A) Rating
Pre-requisite flight & theoretical knowledge requirements.


Bit of a cheek to thread creep then ask to
Please, keep the answers to just the above.
IMHO.

[Speedbird48]

Droste,

The FAA has a rule that states ALL Initial CFI's will be tested by the FAA. But, there are at least 72 FSDO's so 72 different rulings?? Basically the FSDO does the initial.

Where do you intend to do the test??

You can indeed do your Initial CFI in a twin, and that will also surfice for the complex requirement. If the local FSDO insists on doing the initial you can then do the single with a local DPE, and the FAA does not choose which DPE you use.

The oral can last all day or at least most of it. The flight check is normally done the next day. It depends on the inspector, and your ability to show him/her that you know your stuff.

All FAA questions are published, with answers. There are several books published about the required manouvers. You will not have done Turns around a point, Lazy eights and Chandelles in the UK, so will need some training. There is a publication available on-line called the Practical Test Standards (PTS). That is what you will be checked to in the flight phase, get a copy.

Your 8710 application has to be signed off by an instructor that gave you the instruction. If you fail the FAA can also look at the instructor, and his teaching ability so he won't sign you off until he is confident in your ability to pass.

It is true that a high percentage of first time applicants for the CFI rating fail. It is also true that a lot of them are not fully prepared. It is not just the Oral and Flight as the airworthiness of the airplane you bring for the test will be looked at.

Any more questions, please send me a PM.

Speedbird 48.

[Droste]

if you are going to do the CFI-I as your initial ride, it is a lot to take on, at ORL FSDO you can expect an oral of about 8 hours just for the CFI, they will cut you no slack and you could be looking at an oral over two days if you add the Instrument.
The oral can last all day or at least most of it. The flight check is normally done the next day.
I always hate to read this. :hmm:

I don't mind paying more money ($)(yes, willing to pay extra $$$) to cut short the boring oral.

[Droste]

The MEI Initial oral isn't a super long oral. It has some MEI-specific content, but omits a lot of content on the various ASEL
maneuvers.I whole heartedly agree about the MEI as an initial, this is what I did, and then did the SEL and I-I as an add on a week later.You can indeed do your Initial CFI in a twin, and that will also surfice for the complex
requirement. If the local FSDO insists on doing the initial you can then do the single with a local DPE, and the FAA does not choose which DPE
you use.
I have two questions about MEI initial.

Q1. Since a student can choose MEI as initial, will he still get his MEI certificate even if he choose not to do his SEL ('add-on')?
Q2. Are F.O.I. and C.F.I. knowlegde tests be required prior to sit for MEI initial?

[Droste]

Your 8710 application has to be signed off by an instructor that gave you the instruction. If you fail the FAA can also look at the instructor, and his teaching abilityNow, I am curious and interested about what is going to happen to the Instructor who sign the failed student.

Is it true that the FAA going to 'revoke' CFI certificate of the Instructor OR is the FAA going to call up the Instructor for interview? :hmm:

[Speedbird48]

Droste,

If you choose to do the MEI/CFI as your first one you will have a MEI rating, and a CFI rating, only valid on multi engine aircraft. You could not teach on singles.

As for the poster that asked about the CFI being revoked if his candidate fails??

Each CFI has a training record of passes and fails. If he/she should get too many fails, or a very bad fail, he can be asked to the FSDO for a talk (councelling) or could be re-examined under the 44709 rule, to check his ability. It is in the rules, but rarely used.

Speedbird 48.

[Speedbird48]

Droste,

Ooops' I forgot to answer your other question. For any CFI rating you must take the FOI and the CFI writtens.

Speedbird 48.

[Droste]

Each CFI has a training record of passes and fails. If he/she should get too many fails, or a very bad fail, he can be asked to the FSDO for a talk (councelling) or could be re-examined under the 44709 rule, to check his ability. It is in the rules, but rarely used.
Thank you for explaining.

Ooops' I forgot to answer your other question. For any CFI rating you must take the FOI and the CFI writtens.
No problem.

[Droste]

If you choose to do the MEI/CFI as your first one you will have a MEI rating, and a CFI rating, only valid on multi engine aircraft. You could not teach on singles.
Yup...I am awared of the limitation. No teaching on ASEL airplane.

[Droste]

Referring to the two posts mentioned earlier.
(post #13)The oral can last all day or at least most of it. The flight check is normally done the next day. It depends on the inspector, and your ability to show him/her that you know your stuff.
(post #7)The MEI Initial oral isn't a super long oral. It has some MEI-specific content, but omits a lot of content on the various ASEL maneuvers.
Q1: Is the MEI Initial (oral) going to be a long one?
Q2: Is the MEI Initial exam going to be tested by DPE or FAA Inspector?
Q3. Does the student require to perform instrument approach in MEI (Initial) flight exam?

[B2N2]

Q1: Is the MEI Initial (oral) going to be a long one?
Q2: Is the MEI Initial exam going to be tested by DPE or FAA Inspector?
Q3. Does the student require to perform instrument approach in MEI (Initial) flight exam?

Q1; It could very well be. It is the " regular" CFI oral plus ME subject matter.
You can order a CFI/MEI PTS (practical test standards) online from ASA.
It spells out exactly what an Examiner (DPE or otherwise) needs to cover.

Q2: Either one, depends on the FSDO. If they are not busy they'll do it themselves, if they have nobody to do the test in a reasonable amount of time they'll authorize a DPE.

Q3: No.

[Droste]

I knew that a CFI (ASEL) needs only 10 hours of flying to have an MEI rating.

So, how many hours are required pertaining to sit for MEI initial test?

[philknight29]

61.183 subsection j states "Log at least 15 hours as pilot in command in the category and class of aircraft that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought"

So if you have no multi, you'd need that plus 15 PIC after that to be eligible to teach in that aircraft.

PK

[Droste]

So if you have no multi, you'd need that plus 15 PIC after that to be eligible to teach in that aircraft.
Do you mean, prior to for a holder of FAA CPL (ME+IR rating) to sit for initial M.E.I. test, he needs 15 hours of flying in ME?

If so, it makes no difference to sit for initial CFI (ASEL). The initial CFI (ASEL) still needs 15hours of flying!

[B200Drvr]

Agree, With a MEI as your initial, you will not be able to teach on a single until you have done your SE add on.

[tbavprof]

Droste

If you hold an FAA CPL-AME, you will need 15 hours AME PIC to take the FI ME test. And as noted by the other poster, before you can actually instruct, you need 5 hours PIC make and model of an AME. If you got your 15 PIC AME with a PPL, it still counts.

[Droste]

I have a doubt.

I wonder, does any of the initial flight instructor ratings (CFI or CFII or MEI) need to be exam by FAA inspector?

Thank you.

[B200Drvr]

Yes, ALL of the initial CFI tests, whether done in a single or multi, require a DE that has special authorization to conduct these test. In Florida, most initial flight instructor ratings are done by the FSDO, as their are very few DE's that do not work for the FSDO/FAA, and that are permitted to do initial Flight Instructor check rides. Basically, you can expect to go to the FSDO to do it.

[172_driver]

In San Diego there are a few DPE's allowed to do CFI and MEI examinations. I personally did my CFI with a DPE, because the FSDO didn't have time. CFII and MEI I did with a DPE, too.

[Droste]

In San Diego there are a few DPE's allowed to do CFI and MEI examinations. I personally did my CFI with a DPE, because the FSDO didn't have time. CFII and MEI I did with a DPE, too.
1. Was it sit easy to pass?
2. How long does your oral last?
3. How long was your flight test lasted?

[Droste]

I have few questions about MEI.

No.1. Is it a must to have CFII before proceeding to MEI?

No.2. If an instructor holds CFI and MEI, and later add-on with CFII, must he demonstrate his proficiency in IR in multi-engine airplane so as to get his CFII?

[172_driver]

My initial CFI:


1. Was it sit easy to pass?



I should say, it was exhausting (see Question 2) but not extremely difficult. I'd say it depends on how good theoretical knowledge you have.


2. How long does your oral last?


Mine wasy 8-9 hours, something. Though, I've heard that that is not a normal duration in other parts of the states. However, most my friends here in San Diego had a very long oral. I've heard orals as short as 2 hours.


3. How long was your flight test lasted?


I think mine as 1,8 h long. Some maneuvers I had to demonstrate, other evaluate and correct him on.

[Droste]

Mine wasy 8-9 hours, something.
Wow...8 - 9 hours! Long hours of oral! :eek:

[Droste]

I have three separate questions (unrelated to each other) pertaining to FAA flight instructor rating. Hope the experts here can help to answer.


I know this question may be uncommon practice in the United States. Still, I would like to know.

Supposedly, A CFI (without CFII) had received his MEI rating. However, he wishes to have an add-on rating with CFII.
Now, does he requires to do Instrument approaches in Multi-Engine so as to receive his CFII?

Is it advisable for a student to finish his CFII before embarking for MEI program?

Is it advisable for a student (already has his FAA CPL (SE/IR)) to complete his ME/IR/CPL before going for CFI program?

If 'yes' to the above question, what are the reasons for doing so?

If 'not encouage', why?

[tbavprof]

Question #1 - Assuming the CPL you hold is ASE-AME/IR....No, the CFII is not required to be done in a multi. If it is, there are a couple of additional mandatory tasks to be accomplished.

Question #2 -Not required. Whether it's 'advisable' depends on a host of factors. So far, you haven't ever listed reasons why you are asking these questions.

Question #3 - Again, not required, and the same caveats apply on advisability.

I went the CFI ASEL -> CFII -> ME add-on to CPL/IR -> MEI route. Strictly a matter of economics. Instruction income funded the ME training. CFII has more potential customers than a CFI-ASEL.

Yes, initial CFI will be done by FSDO or one of a very few DPE's specially authorized.

If you're well prepared, it's an easy pass. My oral was about 7 hours. Flight test 1.7

Add-ons, 2/2.2 (mostly in actual) and 4/1.6 respectively.



TIme to come clean Droste...why are you asking these questions...what do you want/need?

[Droste]

I've heard orals as short as 2 hours
How can that be? Inittial CFI oral exam last for two hours?
I suppose the candidate must be AGI and/or IGI inorder to have such privileage!

[Droste]

I understood that it is a norm for initial CFI candidate must be tested by FAA inspector.

However, recently, I just came to know that in some states of U.S.A., initial CFI may not be tested by FAA inspector.

May I know how true it is?

[172_driver]

2 hrs was indeed the duration of the oral for friends of mine, they were no ground instructors before

I did with DPE, got a date with FAA, I said it didn't work for me, was allowed to schedule with DPE.