View Full Version : Beagle Pup
I would be grateful is someone could give a real simple explanation in layman's term of the significance of the Beagle Pup becoming an EASA aircraft with regard to maintenance. How does this compare say with a Cessna 150??
Thanks
JP1
(assume you are giving the explanation to a 8 year old !!)
Whether an aircraft is designated as an EASA type is determined by whether there is a type certificate holder. The Pup kinda comes under De Havilland Support which is kinda the type certificate holder and design authority and thus becomes an EASA machine requiring an Annual Review Certificate. Of course the mystery is (dare I say it) the Bulldog - whoops. Interestingly the Piper Cub becomes and annex 2 machine. Ain't this European thing great?
jxk,
...that's one intelligent 8 year old:eek:
Mad Girl
2nd Aug 2008, 06:27
JP1 read your PM's
In simple terms as an EASA aircraft you are dependent upon the tpye certificate holder for continuing airworthiness issues.
With the recent changes there have been a number of types where the CAA's recent role as TC holder has been offered out. Potentially with alarge fleet base this could be a lucrative business oppertunity with effectively a monopoly situation. It was these issues which lead tot he Auster fleet being in limbo for several years.....
DH support were set up IIRC with assistance from BAe and now all the owners have to keep DH support going. So they are in effect funding the operation (not sure what if any ongoing support there is from BAe).
From the Beagle end of things this is not bad - the aircraft can effectively be maintained in most places with ready 'factory' support just like any other EASA aircraft
And then there of course those aircraft which don't fit the model outlined in my previous and other posts such as Jodels. Now, some people think that this is great because these types are in some cases coming under the LAA's (PFA) jurisdiction with a more owner related maintenance schedule. However, the down side is that these types are operated on a LAA 'Permit' which at present restricts flight at night and IMC (this might change in future though). Personally, I would be very suspicious about buying an aircarft that has been owner maintained because like all things in life there are some really good guys out there and some who can't even tell which way to operate a screwdriver.
I really like to fly the Beagle Pups which are a typically refined British aircraft with good control response. I can't understand why even the Pup 100's are not snapped up; OK a little under powered but beat hands down all of your home builds (on price too) and Cessnas. Cessna 100 series are easier to maintain with plenty of new replacement parts available.
I guess it all depends on what type of flying you like to do.
microlight AV8R
4th Aug 2008, 01:26
I think that we should have an option to place older/out of production types such as the Pup and cessna 150 srs under the LAA permit system.
For those of us who fly VFR only, it would be brilliant.
I also think that replacing time expired engines with a MOGAS powered replacement would make sense under the permit system. The Rotax 912S delivers 100bhp and I seem to recall that there is at least one cessna 152 in germany with this engine.
Anyway, I must get back to converting my diesel car to run on veg oil and hydrogen.
An EASA type certified aircraft can be used at night and in IMC. But apart from a tiny handful of either club trainers or private owners almost none do. The restriction makes virtually no difference to 99% of flights.
The 'overflight restriction' has been removed and the LAA are working on the others. It was these conditions which caused the near split amongst Auster owners - great instrument platform the Auster!
As for owner maintenance - typically the people who can do it, the people who cannot get it done for them. The inspection system is there to main sensible standards and that is very largely what it does - without added layers of meaningless paperwork - none of which actually requires the aircraft to be inspected - just its records......
The big issues for Beagle pups and Bulldogs will come when the fatigue issue requires to be addressed....... Until then I would agree nice to fly, but easy to break.
Legal Beagle
19th Aug 2008, 20:06
GASAX - A minor correction, the Pup is not subject to the same wing spar fatigue problem as the Bulldog. I thing Beagle bolted the wings on better than Scottish Aviation did!
The Pup is in fact 'lifed' at 16000 hours, so at the present rate of progress my Pup has another 200 years in it..... Ok, famous last words, I know!
Bulldog is now Annnex II so rolls on with CAA/M3. Hope it works, guys.
Pup is EASA and quess what - because DHS can't offer full support (because DHS doesn't have EASA appproval) Pup only gets a so-called 'restricted' C of A.
Just got my nice new EASA Restricted C of A and under the section marked 'Restrictions' it says, I quote, 'None'.
Bonkers isn't it!
Yes, I suppose our Pups may be OK as EASA certuificated aeroplanes but I personally can't help thinking we would have been better off going onto a permit with all the other orphaned types. Hope EASA works for Pups, but I am yet to be convinced....
Anyway, the Pup is here to stay for some years to come and if you've not flown one yet then do so. You will not regret it!
stunt-flyer
19th Aug 2008, 20:23
Oh and they are a delight for a few gentle aeros:D