am thinking of giving up flying

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

seems the odds are stacked against the genuine enthusiast

one the one hand, the CAA seem to have an axe to grind against GA generally, but especially against people who want to operate aircraft on a permit

on the other, the schools and clubs have an approach where it seems they really don't care about their customers. I have known a flying club where I have turned up on a couple of sundays to fly to france, (each time booked several days in advance through an on-line booking system) to be told - "oh, the aircraft went tech a few days ago, and wont be fixed for a few days", or "oh, the aircraft is still in the hangar, and no-one's around to get it out for a few hours...":ugh::ugh:

probably my last season of flying, and I will hang up my headset when the winter sets in
:(

[IO540]

It's a game which is frustrating to play at the bottom end of the market. I gave up the self fly hire scene the instant I managed to get enough £££ together to buy a plane. In fact I realised after the first lesson in some wreckage and even more after the first few cancelled lessons that the whole scene would drive me mad, and started looking for planes to buy a share in, or buy outright.

That's the only real escape. Either buy outright (always recommended if one can afford it, for several very good reasons) or buy with some trusted friends.

The training establishment is a business whose success is measured purely financially - they have no mandate to turn out capable pilots or some other charitable objective.

There are a few schools operating modern iron but they are rare, and right now many are stuffed because the 'modern iron' are Diamond diesels...

Don't give up, is my suggestion. Find somebody to fly with - even if you don't log the time it will keep up your skills and you can pick it up another time.

[rogerbucks]

I know just how you feel! A year ago I paid the thick end of two thousand quid to cram in my 12 hours in a club aircraft- as usual I left things a tad late, and ended up flying six weekends on the trot after nothing for almost 12 months! Of course, that was after the mandatory check ride-(Don't get me wrong- these are a necessary part of what we all do), but after a good hour in the air, there was no time left for circuits, so next ride was EIGHT touch & go's, another hour & 15mins(the instructor said he was trying to catch me out, but could'nt fault me!) Hey ho, and a load more wonga!

Anyway, while sitting in the bar after getting my ticket renewed, I spotted an ad for a share in a smart looking C150, for less that I had just shelled out on my renewal. A year later, I've flown about 40 hours in her, and feel confident enough now in my renewed skills to go further than Shoreham to Bembridge! It's cost me less for these 40 hours (cost of the share apart) than the price of my renewal. It's also great when you know the 'plane is yours for the day, with no rush to get back, and no minimum hours to fly!

I bought the share mainly on impulse (after the mandatory sign-off from Mrs RB!), but have been lucky in finding a very good group, and great availability I would recommend you do your research, as this was more by luck than judgement on my part!

There are some very good deals to be had at the moment; this has certainly renewed my enthusiasm, after too many years going down the club route.

Don't hang those headsets up yet!
RB

[Shunter]

I can understand your feelings in regard to all the issues you describe. That's not how it is across the board though.

I'm another one who rapidly tired of the hiring game. If you're serious about your flying, buying is the only way. I put together a group with a selection of similarly high-calibre individuals and chose to base it at a regional airport. By getting the numbers right and planning everything down to the smallest detail the aircraft is almost always available when I want it, and a quick call before leaving home is all it takes to ensure it's waiting for me, full of fuel, when I arrive at the airport.

Of course, this does involve money, but it's not excessive. We pay for outstanding service and we get it. In my professional capacity I provide a first-rate service to my customers, so I find those in the aviation industry who fail to do the same quite irritating and frankly not suitable recipients for my money.

If I'd continued hiring I probably would have thrown the towel in long ago.

[Mariner9]

one the one hand, the CAA seem to have an axe to grind against GA generally, but especially against people who want to operate aircraft on a permit

So what axe grinding have the CAA done to Permit Aircraft then? Their most recent action was to remove the restriction on overflying built up areas. IFR/Night may come too (though I'm not holding my breath on those issues :hmm:)

Totally agree with the above posts. Buy outright or get a share in something, and it'll transform your flying.

[S-Works]

I would agree with Peter and Shunter. Get into your own aircraft, if you can't afford outright find a group. Their are plenty around. Friends of mine just put a Cherokee group together for next to nothing £3k for a share and it costs them £65ph to fly and £60 per month. Good little tourer with a 5hr range.

Their are plenty of permit aicraft around and permit groups and they make for good DAY/VFR tourers and most run on Mogas to keep the costs down even more. With the recent removal of the overflight restriction their capability improves further.

[foxmoth]

I would go with that, not sure where in W sussex you are, but if interested there is my share in this:- Aviation Forums for pilots - from FLYER Magazine (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=23812)
up for sale, selling because my wife wants to do her IMC and my daughter is 14 in Sept so can start learning - 'HY is not really suitable for either.:ok:

[ChampChump]

Based where you are, you are in a good position to experience the fun end of farm strip flying and the joys of that aspect of flying. I could put you in touch with someone quite close whom I think would be only too pleased to reinvigorate your lost enthusiasms.

Please don't just hang up the headset.

There still seems to be quite a gulf between those who start flying at a school and never get connected to the grassy side and those who arrived at it by various means and wouldn't want it any other way. Looking at the 'average' farmstrip-style ops, there are aircraft on a Permit, including old classics, newer homebuilts and quite a lot in between and that's without the microlights. Once you get connected, the opportunities for your own machine, wholly-owned or a share, become much more viable and you can go to France when you jolly well please.

Making a sweeping assumption, I suspect you are suffering only from being based at the wrong place with the wrong people and the answer is simpler than you think.

But I do like to simplify things...

[flybymike]

Shunter, I think your remark about the costs of operating from Leeds as not being excessive might be open to debate..;)

[tangovictor]

renting will always be expensive, and have its problems, have you considered a 3 axis microlight ? some ( not all ) are streets better than a spam can
I have no idea what you budget is, however the running costs are less than 1/2 , have a look around, ask nicely and get a flight, you will be impressed.

[englishal]

Where are you based?

As others said, buy a share. For example our shares are £5000, £60 ph wet, and not a cherokee ;) - 160 horses of 4 seat, non IFR flying, but very good fun, and slightly different (STOL / farm stripping etc...). I'd have given up flying in the UK long ago had I not bought my own share. Plus we can take it away as we please, pretty much.

For the IFR touring, I get paid ;), but also I go to america and rent some capable heavy metal and have a blast a couple of times a year.....

[Slopey]

A year ago I paid the thick end of two thousand quid to cram in my 12 hours in a club aircraft-


Just out of interest, why not just let your class rating expire and then revalidate by skills test after the expiry? That would have beem much cheaper?

[jonkil]

renting will always be expensive, and have its problems, have you considered a 3 axis microlight ? some ( not all ) are streets better than a spam can

I concur with that.
I fly the Ikarus C42 and have toured from North west Ireland all around the UK twice this year.... toured the whole island of Ireland many many times and fly over 200 hours a year.
Recent statement from a few of the GA guys at our club was.... We will have to do some touring... after all the bloody microlight guys are away every weekend.

Some real good stuff out there that is very reasonable and costing a lot less to fly.
Take a look at it.

[A and C]

This week my engineering team worked very hard to get an aircraft ready for the weekend only to find that no longer can you get the paperwork done at the local CAA office.

With this new ARC the CAA now take 5 working days to process the paperwork............... to me that is a lot of pi$$ed off customers and a lot of lost money.

How long will it be before the half wits at the CAA wake up to the fact that there jobs depend on money from the industry and if they kill the industry they to will be out of work.

[BeechNut]

Although I have had my share of disappointments and scrubbed missions with my own plane (flying: a rapid means of transportation for those not in a hurry...), it was one of my last rental flights that made me say enough, if I want to continue this nonsense, it's in my own plane.

The hire plane was a clapped-out PA28. The alternator had died. Rental/flying school owner said "we charged up the battery: use the battery to start and run the radios in the zone, then shut the master off when you're out of the zone; turn it back on again when you return."

That's acceptable, maybe in an emergency... not for starting out a flight.

The worst though was when the fuel was 10 cents per liter cheaper at a field 20 minutes away. I had hired the plane for a flight of 1 hour with friends to see some specific sights, but the owner told me to go fly to the next field for fuel first.

Of course he expected me to pay for the extra 40 minutes flying time off my itinerary.

I had enough of that BS and bought my own bird (first a PA-28 and now a Beech C23).

[172driver]

Simple answer, really (if your work / schedule allows): forget flying in the UK unless you own your a/c. If you can get away from work, say, 3-4 time a year, get yourselves an FAA ticket, hop on a plane to the US and fly there. MUCH more fun, better a/c and no old codgers hanging about a clapped out Portacabin telling you how to fly. Just forget 'em. If this doesn't work for you, check out the continent. In many (mind, not all!) countries here flying is a lot more fun, ATC isn't totally idiotic about CAS transits (IOW they actually do what they get paid for) and the prices are, well, cheaper. You'd probably have to join a club or two, but still worth the effort. And, your license is valid.

You know the old saying: don't get mad - get even.

[offshore_taxidriver]

There is no denying it - Hiring is an expensive business. I am tempted to have a flick through my cheque book and see what I have paid out....but i'd rather not. I have to agree with ChampChump, having just tried out my first grass strip a few months ago I found it to be a brilliant experience, a bit of a challenge too as I was used to 6000ft of tarmac. I would love to get my hands on a warbird, but if you think your PA-28 is expensive you can forget the warbird scene!

[englishal]

Simple answer, really (if your work / schedule allows): forget flying in the UK unless you own your a/c. If you can get away from work, say, 3-4 time a year, get yourselves an FAA ticket, hop on a plane to the US and fly there.
That is very good advice. I know people who do this and almost got to this situation myself, had I not bought a share.

It is perfectly possible to hold an FAA certificate, and go on a flying holiday 1/2/3/4 times per year.You arrive and are rusty, but a couple of hours with an FI and you're good to go again. With the price of the dollar you can rent a Twin Star, all inclusive, wet etc., cheaper than a knackered old piece of sh*t in the UK these days....:eek:

With no stupid requirements to keep the FAA certificate you never need to worry about it lapsing - you just do the BFR every couple of years as part of your normal "check out"....easy.