Landing on beaches - UK Rules?

[jellycopter]

Anybody know what the rules are that govern helicopter landings on beaches within the UK?

Cheers, JJ

PS. I've done a forum search but not found any definite answer.

[Whirlygig]

You coming up to Cromer, J? Most beaches are under the control of the Local Authority but there are a couple owned by the National Trust and some in private ownership.

Cheers

Whirls

...and check the tide tables!!!

[206 jock]

I beleive it's what's called a 'grey area'. Custom and practice is that you can land between the low and high water marks as this is 'common land' (owner by the Queen, I think), but I don't think you'll find this is definitive.

Be careful of rule 5 (OK, before the bitching starts I know you are landing and taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice etc etc, but it's probably a good rule to follow when there are people about), and of course have complete confidence that you can restart the machine....

Cromer: I went to one of their 'heli fly-in's' last year....I was the only one who turned up! Nice crabs though:D

[Droopystop]

I wouldn't worry about the legality of it, I would be worrying about the damage the sand is going to do to the blades and engine.

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Jelly,


The big problem of landing on a beach is the state of the sand, when damp sand (ie tide gone out, or comming in)is subject to vibration such as the vibes put thru the skids when the engine is running up or down you can get a situation know as Liquifaction(spelling) its when the water level is forced up to the surface, at that point you could get uneven sink rates or even one skid well stuck in.

dry sand has already been discussed, so beware !......I was always told never land on a tidal beach!


Peter R-B

[Bertie Thruster]

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i97/nmhsu/100_0231.jpg

[MightyGem]

Don't forget to give a wash when you get home, to get rid of the salt.

[jellycopter]

Many thanks for the replies thus far, but still not a great deal of help I'm afraid. Surely there must be someone in PPruneland that knows the answer. Here's hoping............

[Union Jack]

Jelly

Worth a rerun on the Military Aircrew thread?

Jack

PS Nice crabs though:D I wonder which air station they came from!:)

[ShyTorque]

Hi Jelly,

I think you can land below high tide mark, as already stated, but can't justify my belief!

Btw, UJ, the military operate under different regs, as Jelly knows, so not much real help might be forthcoming from that source.

[puntosaurus]

Same rules as anywhere else surely. Landowners permission, plus Rule 5. For landowners see here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/items/04/2007_35_wed.shtml) as a starting point.

[Bronx]

Land owner's permission?
Where does it say that? :confused:

[Union Jack]

"the military operate under different regs ....."

Well I never! Shy Torque, specialist subject ......

Jack

PS Which, IMHO, is precisely why they are likely to have a better all round knowledge of the situation under discussion.:ok:

[Whirlygig]

Union Jack, whilst it is not denied that there could be some contributors to Military Aircrew forum who will know the civilian rules (ANO etc), jellycopter will not be able to operate under the military rules :rolleyes:.

If the landowner of a beach is the Queen, then the Armed Forces probably have her carte blanche permission to land whereas us normal mortals would have to get permission from a Local Authority, have the request passed round 6 different people until they work out whose responsibility it is, have a Council meeting, have a Health & Safety briefing, bury the request in soft peat for three months and hope you go away.

Jelly, a few years ago WPD were doing helicopter rides from the beach at Weston-Super-Mud; maybe someone there could help.

Cheers

Whirls

[Union Jack]

"jellycopter will not be able to operate under the military rules :rolleyes:"

Cheers, Whirls - totally understood, thank you, as I am sure was the spirit behind my suggestion, nicely paraphrased in your own words, namely "that there could be some contributors to Military Aircrew forum who will know the civilian rules" who might therefore be kind enough to provide the type of information that Jelly is "seaking" - sorry - seeking, irrespective of how, where, and what they do themselves. Hence my PS, which said "Which, IMHO, is precisely why they are likely to have a better all round knowledge of the situation under discussion.:ok:"

My apologies if this was not sufficiently clear for you.

Jack

PS "a few years ago WPD were doing helicopter rides from the beach at Weston-Super-Mud"

In which case they should certainly know about liquefaction!

[JimBall]

You do not need landowner's permission to land in the UK, subject to the requirements of Rule 5. (If landing near an event or in a congested area).

However, if you land somewhere and the owner or owner's representative asks you to leave, you must go within 3 "asks" or you will have committed a breach of an 18th century trespass law.

If you damage anything that the owner/freeholder has put on the land, you will be responsible for the damage.

The definition of freehold is the right to fence a piece of land. Ultimately, the Crown owns all land in the UK. It's what you put on the land (crops, buildings etc) that is your property.

[puntosaurus]

Hmm, interesting. I guess there's the law, and then there are good manners.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Whirlygig that wasn't WPD more like Polo supplementing their fleet of aircraft with some of WPDs.

I hope you don't mind me correcting you on this point.

[Whirlygig]

No probs BS - just to be girly here; it was an orange helicopter!!

Cheers

Whirls

[jellycopter]

Many thanks to all for your additional contributions; JimBall in particular.

I suppose the only real problem I can see may now be the 'congested area' rules. Given that the ANO states that a Congested Area is any part of a town or settlement substantially used for industrial, residential or recreational purposes (or words to that effect!). I guess a beach could be described as 'substantially used for recreational purposes' if it is part to a town.

As an aside, how can you define the area of a beach where one may be permitted to land as being between the high and low watermarks? Surely the land below the low water mark is the sea! Therefore, landing below the high water mark is all that's required?

Guess I'll just have to get on with it and wait for the seagull droppings to hit the fan.

Cheers

JJ

[ShyTorque]

Union Jack,

Some of us here are long time served ex-military, too, (almost two decades in my case) and now operate under civvy rules; I see no need for your sarcasm.

My most recent Rule 5 exemption (used today) states that I must have the landowner's permission. I don't recall seeing this written down anywhere else under civilian rules.

[Hughesy]

Land downwind from the bikini babes so you don't get sand all over them. But then dont park so far away that you get puffed walking over to them.
:ok:

[that chinese fella]

Cant recall any decent beaches in the dart worthy of landing on anyway! :p

[ShyTorque]

That's a shellfish comment so don't carp.

(Yeeessss! :ok:)

[malc4d]

Oh very good................:D

[heli1]

A bit late joining this discussion but at Helidays the organisers have local authority permission and the pleaure flights operate just below the high tide line...it goes a loooong way out !

It is outside the congested area...i.e. roped off and with no significant numbers of people etc being overflown but this year the main event on the nearby lawns has been deemed to be within a congested area and the CAA has granted an exemption to Rule 5 subject to certain conditions.

I have seen microlights and auotogyros doing touch and goes from a nearby quieter beach without permission but still believe that local authority permission is needed .

[ianp]

Not sure I'd want to land on the beach with my own helicopter. Landed on moist sand (beach at Donna Knook) the other day with a Merlin and very little recirc or dust but the cab was covered in horrible gritty stuff.

[Cpt_Pugwash]

Speaking of Weston Beach ---- departure at close of play on the Saturday of 2008 Helidays
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x176/ExINASty/Aviation/Weston26Jul08129sml.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x176/ExINASty/Aviation/Weston26Jul08133sml.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x176/ExINASty/Aviation/Weston26Jul08135sml.jpg

[Brilliant Stuff]

I loved flying from the beach. Excellent gig.:ok:

Good old BARP so easy to fly.