747-400 GPWS/EGPWS upgrade question

[Torquelink]

We have some pre 2000-build -400s which had factory fitted Honeywell GPWS. Operator upgraded to EGPWS through local airworthiness authority-approved EO based on Boeing's factory installation. We now need to get FAA approval and have been told that we need an STC but all the searches we have done do not appear to show there has ever been an STC for this upgrade. There must be many -400s out there that have had to have similar upgrades so how was this accomplished and certificated? Can anybody shed some light?

Cheers

Torque

[PEI_3721]

Talk to Honeywell - egpws.com they have most STC details (some STCs on the web?), or if not they should be able to provide an onward contact.

[GotTheTshirt]

also try ECS
http://www.ecsdirect.com/

They do some of the STC kits for Honeywell including EGPWS.

[Limer]

You do not necessarily need an STC for FAA Approval of the system.

You can go to a FAA Designated Engineering Representative (DER) who can approve the upgrade as a Major Alteration on a FAA Form 8110-3 provided you have all the supporting data for the modification like the EO, Test Plans etc.

If your particular PMI/oversight insists on STC approval, you can go to Honeywell (I believe they have an STC on the 747-400) and purchase a Rights-to-Use for the STC. Then go to a DER or Engineering company, and have the installation approved as a minor deviation to the STC.

I can recommed some DERs if you need..

Perhaps we should leave the recommendations to email ? - JT

[Torquelink]

PEI

We are talking to Honeywell but they haven't unearthed an STC yet which, in itself, suggests it may not have been necessary.

Limer

Very interesting. In fact we did have 8110-3 approval from a DER but he's reviewed his decision and now says that we need an STC. I like the idea of getting a minor deviation approved against the Honeywell STC - if it's available.

T Shirt

Thanks for the link. The current operator has selected another STC provider (similar to ECS) to do the work but now even this provider is questioning whether an STC is necessary!


Getting increasingly confused!

[spannersatKL]

Why not ask Boeing for inclusion of your aircraft in the SB for the installation of this P/N box? Am sure they will be more than happy to receive the $$s they will charge for the change....Or I guess an STC will be required to install the equipment. (Again more $$s)....

[PEI_3721]

Why not ask Boeing for inclusion of your aircraft in the SB for the installation of this P/N box? Am sure they will be more than happy to receive the $$s they will charge for the change....Or I guess an STC will be required to install the equipment. (Again more $$s)....
Or identify an operator with the relevant ‘Boeing’ SB and get a photo copy for your own submission.

[Shore Guy]

If not engineered in this fashion already, I would strongly recommend a direct GPS feed to your EGPWS.

[Bolty McBolt]

If not engineered in this fashion already, I would strongly recommend a direct GPS feed to your EGPWS.

I am fairly sure this is part of Egpws on the 744.
QF has modified all its 744 and 767 fleet to use the new "blue" honeywell EGPWS box and all its 744 (except 744ER) are all pre 2000 marks.
These aircraft have flown or do fly in US air space etc
So there must be a work around for your problem.

[Torquelink]

Spanners

Boeing have offered to develop SB for our specific installation but this would take longer - and cost more - than the STC process we're presently following.

Shore Guy

We have direct GPS feed although the installation differs slightly between aircraft batches.


Bolty

Do you know how QF accomplished the mod - presumably not an FAA STC so Boeing SB or locally-approved EO?


All involved in our situation - including the DAR - seem to be confused as to whether an STC is required under FAA Advisory Circular AC25-23 and other docs.

Anyway, many thanks for all inputs so far.

Torque.