Headset. Do you have your own?

[winglit]

Our airline has stopped issuing pilots with headsets and has started fitting them in the flight deck, plus a spare. They also issue Sanicom wipes to keep them clean. Admittedly it's not a very nice headset. It has those horrible sweat making plastic ear pads and isn't exactly lightweight.

This seams to have started some consternation amongst some pilots. When some of them arrive on board and take a look at what the company have provided they complain, "Do they expect me to wear THAT on my head for the next nine hours?"

My reply as an engineer was "Why don't you buy your own!" As engineers we have to buy all our tools and they cost a pretty penny. We are also allowed a small amount of tax relief too. A nice lightweight Sennheiser active noise reduction headset costs about £500 for a good one. And at least you know where it's been and are less likely to contract some communicable disease from it!

"Five hundred quid, you've got to be joking! I'm not spending that!"

And this came from a skipper wearing a three thousand pound Breitling on his wrist!

[Notso Fantastic]

Well I have 2 personal ones. The actual cost is in the region of £350, and one was on eBay recently. Airlines do provide headsets, I prefer my own. I noticed whenever I was in the simulator and I used the Oxygen mask, I always went down with a cold or sore throat. As it is equipment that is plugged into an aeroplane, and not ever used to change cylinder heads at home, I can understand and sympathise with people being unwilling to shell out that much money on a personal headset when it is really part of aircraft equipment and useful for preventing deafness in an over-noisy work environment! Not really similar to your spanners!

[galaxy flyer]

Even in the corporate aircraft arena, I have my own headset. For basically the same reason, I don't want to "share spit" with my compadres, however decent chaps they are. Use a Telex 850, like the battery-less noise cancelling, but I seem to have problems activating the hot mike facility.

GF

[Urshtnme]

Mate I'd rather have my own headset instead of dealing with fusty ear wax and old man sweat from previous users after a long flight. Bugger that!!

Get your own and just deal with your own fusty ear wax and sweat.

:ok:

[Cardinal]

My company supplies a headset in the aircraft, but I bring my own, thank you very much. I have no desire to get infected with herpegonasyphillaids that the last guy smeared alll over the headset.

If you on priniple expect the company to supply the individual with all necessary equipment for the job, where is the line drawn? Headest, ok. Flashlight? Sunglasses? Suitcase? Socks? Condoms? If I have to touch it, I'll have my own which I know is clean, fits, functions, and is of the requisite quality.

[underread east]

Our company issue a Sennheiser ANR headset to each pilot. Obviously at some expense, but they believe that the reduction in diseases and infection passed between crews (BY SHARING HEADSETS!;)) is justifiable. Previously few if any provided their own...

[Penworth]

My airline has just banned us from using our own headsets on my aircraft type (737-800WS), after the aircraft/equipment was damaged (presumably from people rather too enthusiastically plugging/unplugging personal headsets). And the company provided ones are horrible cheap Sennheisers that hurt like hell after a few hours :*

[rubik101]

Has anyone heard of antiseptic wipes? The system on my Boeing works best when both headsets are of the same type, preferably those supplied with the aircraft. When I use the headset supplied and my co has his own noise reducing set, I have to endure many hours of hissing, avoided by the simple expedient of turning him down.
A quick wipe before each flight for the last thirty something years and no ear or lip infections. Spend the money on a good watch!
£3000.00 for a Breitling, he was robbed!

[Denti]

We get issued personal headsets, however those are very uncomfortable Sennheier ones. Not to mention they are very fragile, normally they dont hold even one year of shorthaul operations before they break down and it is a downright nuisance to try to get a new one out of our technical ground staff. Bought me a private one (telex 850anr), works like a dream, no problems at all, much more comfortable and no technical problems so far. Since Boeing is obviously unable to build a working intercom (at least for the cheap 737s) intercom is of no concern at all.

[slip and turn]

This thread is disgraceful reading from some of you. I take it many of you are in Europe?

There are laws protecting you. Your employer is obliged to provide your Personal Protection Equipment without charge, and replace it immediately without charge if it is damaged or unfit for use, and it must naturally be fit for purpose when it is originally provided.

You don't buy it yourself. You don't accept substandard equipment that compromises your safety by hurting your precious aviator's head like hell. You insist on the best compatible with your type. You are making a rod for everybody's backs if you do otherwise :{

What are you? Men or mice?

You argue yourselves silly about rosters, pay rates and pensions and then you let your employers fart about with essential personal safety equipment? :ugh:

What else do you compromise on?? :\

[SNS3Guppy]

You don't buy it yourself. You don't accept substandard equipment that compromises your safety by hurting your precious aviator's head like hell. You insist on the best compatible with your type. You are making a rod for everybody's backs if you do otherwise

What are you? Men or mice?


Hold the phone there, Nancy. Perhaps one doesn't want the employer to buy one's headset; perhaps one wants to choose a particular one and own it.

Headsets are personal equipment and as such are best suited to the individual. Some companies insist on a particular type due to compatability issues and their own effort to ensure working, legal headsets are available. Some don't.

I've worked several different types of jobs for many years. One of them requires a full protective helmet, rather than just a headset. The employer had a helmet available for my use, but like nearly everyone doing that work, I elected to purchase my own. I elected order new, and custom, and upgraded from a fiberglass shell to kevlar. I opted for a custom liner which improved safety and comfort, as well as custom ear pieces and electronics. My helmet wasn't cheap, but it fits perfectly, and I don't have to worry about who's sweaty head has been in there before me.

I always carry a spare headset with me when I fly. Usually a lightweight telex headset, tucked in a bag. I usually use the one provided in the airplane. It's inexpensive, but functional. Most employers for whom I've worked haven't provided headsets. One finally did and took the unusual step of hardwiring them in place and securing them with locks, because the use of different headsets was wreaking havoc with the radios. That was a little unusual, but there are valid reasons for an employer to provide them, or to not provide them.

It's a tool of the trade. I'm a mechanic, and I own my own tools. I'm a pilot, and I have no problem with a pilot owning hi sown tools, either. Where able, it's a matter of personal choice.

[slip and turn]

Sorry Guppy but I think you have missed the point entirely unless you consider yourself and all your colleagues as self employed contractors like the self employed Kiwi plumbers I see on the London Tube? Your headset/helmet is personal protective equipment first and tool second.

It truly is disgraceful for any employer to expect their employees to use communal personal protective equipment when it is as personal as a noise-reducing headset. For a start, those of you on quick turnarounds wouldn't have time to adjust the headset correctly, would you, let alone clean the previous wearer's sweat, gunge and bacterial infection from it.

To let your employer off the legal hook by propounding the view that "Actually I can afford my own and will do so" is just paying your employer for the false privilege. If your employer provided equipment is substandard or non-existent then your airline employer is abdicating a safety issue and you are unofficially taking it on.

So you think that your way is better than the law? I think it clouds a safety issue. And I say again, what else is compromised from the legal standard because culturally 'it's better that way' at your current airline?

It's not the way to go.

New job, new headset / helmet provided, custom made if necessary to fit your head from a list of suppliers compatible with your type. Two maybe, in case you drop one, and so you don't have to wait for the replacement when you get back to your base. Havoc wrought with the radios?? Why?? Pilots using wrong headsets? Pilots clumsy with connections?? No-one maintaining the headsets?

Of course costs can be lowered if you buy your own, and no-one at the airline has to manage your specification, the purchase, logistics of supply, and registration/maintenance/time-life of the equipment, and you also take the risk of replacement when needed plus the inconvenience of using a communal second best while you wait. But that to me is a sign of a second-rate operation or as I said, a self-employed contractor type pilot/plumber.

[bigwullie]

just bought a noise reducing one because my local tax office told me if my employer does not provide A NOICE REDUCING one then I could claim it back against tax over the next three years however, my company does provide anti bacterial wipes and up till now I've never had any problems

[lederhosen]

That is a pretty impressive rant slip and turn. Meanwhile back in the real world, I can thoroughly recommend the Telex 850 like Denti.

[ReallyAnnoyed]

Normally, we just use the handheld mike and the speakers in the cruise. Makes the whole headset thing a non-event :)

[SNS3Guppy]

So you think that your way is better than the law? I think it clouds a safety issue. And I say again, what else is compromised from the legal standard because culturally 'it's better that way' at your current airline?


Take a nice, big breath there and calm down. Feel better?

I said nothing of the law. What law requires a particular headset in the airplane? I said nothing of my "way," or made comparisons between any of this discussion and the law or the regulation. What on earth are you on about?

I never stated I work for an airline in this thread. You make a lot of assumptions, don't you?

Havoc wrought with the radios?? Why?? Pilots using wrong headsets? Pilots clumsy with connections?? No-one maintaining the headsets?


Assumptions, assumptions. Actually, one salaried individual who did nothing but maintain headsets and tackle compatability issues, and who travelled throughout the system doing so.

Of course costs can be lowered if you buy your own, and no-one at the airline has to manage your specification, the purchase, logistics of supply, and registration/maintenance/time-life of the equipment, and you also take the risk of replacement when needed plus the inconvenience of using a communal second best while you wait. But that to me is a sign of a second-rate operation or as I said, a self-employed contractor type pilot/plumber.


You know, this isn't my first rodeo. I've done this for a great many years, as well as a lot of other jobs in this lifetime. As a law enforcement officer, I carried a handgun and handcuffs and other gear...which I purchased. Just like everyone else. Certainly the office for which I worked would provide them; most of us elected to own and carry ours.

Presently I own my own flight case. Nobody bought it for me. Same for the suitcase. Same for the pens, pencils, papers, clipboards, and other gear I use. I don't consider this an imposition.

As a certificated aircraft mechanic, and an inspector who has worked many years on the line and shop floors, I've carried my own tools. I own six rollaway cabinets filled with MAC and SnapOn tools, none of which were poor quality or cheap. No employer bought them for me.

You apparently were in such a rush to dance your little jig on the soapbox that you missed my statement that my employer provides headsets. However, I also carry my own spare.

I've never seen a headset in the airplane which had "previous wearer's sweat, gunge and bacterial infection" on it. We don't have noise attenuating headsets. They're not necessary, and interfere with cockpit communication in our aircraft (which is done verbally, mouth to ear, rather than through an intercom system).

Perhaps you might suggest that each of us should be issued our own oxygen mask and supporting gear, which we carry from airplane to airplane. This would be an utterly ridiculous statement, of course. We could be issued all kinds of equipment which is normally on each airplane when we climb aboard, but I can't imagine having to carry it, or being able to do so. Instead, we are provided antiseptic wipes on board each airplane, and I dutifully wipe down the oxygen mask inside and out prior to testing it for function and fit, as part of my cockpit inspection during the preflight.

Then again, I wipe down the microphone, and the thrust levers, flap handle, and control yoke. You see, the company fails to issue a fresh control yoke to each pilot, too. We're forced to suffer through the "previous wearer's sweat, gunge and bacterial infection" which might be on that control yoke. How unbearable is this? After all, shouldn't the company issue each pilot a new control yoke, as our hands must touch it often during each flight? But no, just a lowly alcohol wipe.

Now, some pilots elect to wear noise attenuating headsets. I've met one at my place of employment, so far. Most don't because one needs to be worn off the ear to properly communicate, thus negating the purpose of the headset. Others elect to wear plantronics or other single ear headsets. I can't wear them, because I can't understand the radio when it's just in one ear. I've worked for many years at over 30 different companies, firms, and agencies...and have never, not once, been issued a headset. Some employers have placed them on airplanes and hard wired them in, giving us no choice but to use the headset in the airplane. Others have placed them in the airplane and given us the choice to bring our own. Others have provided nothing.

Nobody issues me my shoes, my underwear, my belt. I bring my own, and don't feel overly put out in so doing. My headset is not personal protective equipment. It's a communication tool, and it's nothing to do with the law or the regulation. I use what's provided, and I carry my own spare. You do what's appropriate where you work, I'll do what's appropriate where I work. While you're at it, you may mind your own business.

[slip and turn]

Thanks for the benefit of your CV Mr Guppy :ok:. Didn't take much to pull your plonker did it? :p

Can I have your cuffs when you are finished with them :oh:. I have my own wipes.

You can keep your handgun, I always found them not much of a challenge and most people using them at the range carried stupid grins. Preferred long range rifle shooting myself (using the next rifle off the rack - now there's a challenge).

The point is simply that by propounding your old ways of paying for all your own kit, instead of asking for it, and furthermore suggesting others should expect to do so, you are potentially downgrading the working environment for all those that follow you, and by doing that, you are encouraging others to play into the hands of accountants who couldn't give a FF about anything much unless it improves the bottom line.

I never really assumed you of all people worked on any line, Guppy, perish that thought :O. Not in the normal sense at any rate. I surely don't know many who wear helmets in airlines, and quite some threads ago I decided that SNS3Guppy must be a specially experienced type of chap, shockwaves and all, didn't I?

You Sir, actually said nothing of the law, except that you enforced some once with your gun and some cuffs; whereas I did. The law in Europe says the employer must provide and maintain the PPE. I grant that if you come from elsewhere the law may be different, and if you fly something so comfy that the decibels are always well below 75 in your seat then please feel free to continue to do what you like with your communication tool, and your SnapOn spanners, but you really shouldn't confuse what you do and where you've been with those who wear headsets for PPE reasons as well as a preferred means of using the radio. Even if a headset in your world is not PPE but is solely a tool, then the law again puts a statutory duty (UK at any rate) on the employer to provide safe tools and systems. Unclean, uncomfortable communal headsets fail on three counts. What's the third? As an engineer you will know that you have to inspect your tool to ensure it ain't unsafe/you can rely on it before you use it. If you are not issued with it personally and you are not the salaried radio bits tester, how do you know whether or not it has a fault? Will it be registered as one in the aircraft tech log or will you have to find it sometime during the next flight yourself?

Incidently, what do you wear when you do a walkround inspection on the apron with your or your neighbour's APU running? Own belt and underpants obviously, but PPE or no PPE? Do you buy your own ear defenders for that too?

You still didn't say who created the radio havoc or why; only who fixed it.

If you and your colleagues put on your oxygen masks regularly in your operation then yes, why would you be expected to pull one on after some unknown had pulled it on before you unless it had been properly cleaned by some salaried specialist in between times?

But dear Sir, I shall mind my own business if it makes you happy - the day yours crosses mine is admittedly quite unlikely :}. I used to carry a handkerchief for unexpected sneezes, but now I stifle the sneezes more hygienically, and instead my pocket might now carry antiseptic wipes for cleaning up various messes after reading this thread. Much like you once carried your gun and cuffs I guess :ok:

[SNS3Guppy]

Incidently, what do you wear when you do a walkround inspection on the apron with your or your neighbour's APU running? Own belt and underpants obviously, but PPE or no PPE? Do you buy your own ear defenders for that too?


I have a flight engineer to do that, thanks. However, no, the company does not provide "ear defenders." I'm perfectly capable of obtaining my own earplugs if necessary, but generally I just put my finger in my ear. Works like a charm.

If you and your colleagues put on your oxygen masks regularly in your operation then yes, why would you be expected to pull one on after some unknown had pulled it on before you unless it had been properly cleaned by some salaried specialist in between times?


Oxygen masks are mounted in the airplane as aircraft-furnished equipment. We don't carry our own. With a few excepted military applications, I'm not aware of many operations in which pilots do carry their own. Certainly the O2 mask may be considered protective equipment; more so than the headset, which is communication equipment. Never the less, airlines don't issue them. Corporate departments don't issue them. By your own standards, that would constitute a terrible breach of law and ethics. Yet it's a global, industry standard.

No salaried specialist cleanses our masks. A quick wipe down with a sanitary cloth takes care of that, and it's the responsibility of the crewmember to do so.

then the law again puts a statutory duty (UK at any rate) on the employer to provide safe tools and systems.


Well you just feel free to take your employer to task in the UK, by all means, then. A big, bright, wonderful world exists beyond the borders of the UK. You may have heard of it.

As an engineer you will know that you have to inspect your tool to ensure it ain't unsafe/you can rely on it before you use it. If you are not issued with it personally and you are not the salaried radio bits tester, how do you know whether or not it has a fault? Will it be registered as one in the aircraft tech log or will you have to find it sometime during the next flight yourself?


The procedure for testing the headset in the airplane is very simple, actually. I remove it from it's place by the smoke goggles, uncoil the cord, plug it in, and listen to ATIS.

If I wish to test the microphone, I can pick it up and make a call. Not exactly rocket science. There exists no requirement to make a log of this action for flight or maintenance purposes, and there is no legal duty to do so.

You don't understand this?

[POL.777]

I fly with a Telex 850 ANR - great headset. But my new headset is the Tbone Aviation headset (the one where the mic is in the ear) do a google on tboneaviation and I am sure you will find specs and info - just put in the order, so I am sorry, cannot tell you if its any good.
For a turboprop I would go for the Bose...

[slip and turn]

Well Sir Mr Guppy Sir, I understand all you have written, but I don't have to agree with it, do I, especially that quick rub down with a sanitary cloth?

So you are a finger in the ear merchant. Thought so. Great example. Which ear? The one that copped the APU last time? And you say you can't understand the radio in one ear only - ever wondered why? Course you have. You know it, or maybe you tell yourself it was gun practice on the ranges wot did it. Either way, it ain't gonna improve with no finger in the ear, is it? Negative to that.

I think actually that thanks to EU directives, the safe tools rule probably applies to at least 450,000,000 of us in Europe, as well as a few mill in Oz and maybe Canada, plus a quick Google seems to suggest it also applies to those few tens of mill in the sunny US.

I accept that such intrusive workers compensation legislation maybe didn't kick off until after you did, but that's no good reason to poo-poo it now, is it? I am guessing your lot voted for it and we had it in the UK before I was old enough to vote.

In fairness, like me you lived and worked through a period where general workplace safety law has generally not made it beyond the notice on the crewroom wall alongside other fairly impotent motions gone through.

Ok we've all practised the utmost safety in things that fly, but the peeps that fly them and keep 'em flying and wave them in and out, have quietly lost their hearing in their thousands.

Things are changing. Finger in the ear against what...?110db for an APU up close and personal? ... doesn't cut it for groundcrews in many airports, and won't cut it for wandering aircrew much longer, I would think.

And those headsets that don't attenuate background noise. What db level are you punching out of those into your ears in order to hear yourself think??

Aviation is one of the noisiest working environments left in the modern world. Expect anything to do with the protection of your hearing to become very topical sooner rather than later.

[Notso Fantastic]

How much faith do you have in these disinfectant tissues? Do you really think with a little pad of material lightly soaked with weak disinfectant you are really achieving anything disinfection-wise? Viruses are hard to kill. Superficial cleaning won't get anything off- even dentists have to use a microwave oven to clean their dental tools, and even then it doesn't kill everything. I'm afraid a little 10 second wipe down with a little cloth achieves nothing. I really don't think it is going to kill Staphylococcus! That's why I like my own headset.

[SNS3Guppy]

The disinfectant wipes are for the microphone. And the control yoke. And the oxygen mask. Think about it.

Really think the company is going to issue you an oxygen mask to carry about? Of course not. None of those things...are you going to get out your autoclave and dental pick to steralize the yoke held by the last 300 pilots, when it's your turn to handle it? I think not.

Some of us are smart enough to put both fingers in our ears. Not just one. And yes, many years of gunfire and radial engines has taken it's toll. And no, as stated before, I don't do the walk around, because the flight engineer does.

And yes, I have my own headset. As stated several times before. I have about a dozen of them. None bought by any company. Headsets are provided, and most use them. I do too. I keep my own headset as a backup.

The lightweight headsets we use have no noise attenuating value, nor is it particularly needed. One would look fairly stupid trying to wonder around outside wearing the cockpit headset, anyway.

And no, the employer isn't required to provide us with "ear defenders" on the job. Further, the regulations and policies of OSHA in the US aren't the same as what you have in the UK or elsewhere.

Might as well demand your employer issue you nomex uniforms while you're at it. You just never know.

[goeasy]

Headsets are NOT rquired to be provided by any legislation or rule. You are misinformed. Employers musst asses the noise levels on a particular aircraft, and many these days are below the threshold for PPE.

Headsets are required by the ANO for IFR etc, but no mention is made of ANR or noise attenuation.

The argument now is, whether your aircraft type is above or below the threshold, and how the measurement is taken. PPE may be required to be provided, but not on a personal basis.

I was waiting for company provided equipment, but gave up going deaf in the meantime. Having your own headset is highly reccomended for all the reasons above.

[slip and turn]

goeasy, I never said they were specifically. I am not misinformed. I know many cockpit environments are now below standard 'excessive noise levels', but if you generally need to wear the headset and it is not noise attenuating, does the volume setting take the noise level at the ear to above 80db, for example?

The ANO is not the law most intended to protect aircrew long-term health, is it? Hardly surprising then that there's nothing in it about noise attenuation. You have to look at other legislation/statutory regulations to take your cue on what to do about excessive noise in the workplace and maintenance of tools and PPE.

As for apron noise, if aircrew are not freely issued with ear defenders or very high spec ear plugs when they are outside of the aircraft/airbridges then I am surprised. 2 minutes a day at 110db would be enough to permanently damage most people's hearing so if it is fingers in ears only then it wouldn't pay to start a conversation out there near the back end, would it?

[SNS3Guppy]

so if it is fingers in ears only then it wouldn't pay to start a conversation out there near the back end, would it?


Where one is stuffing things in one's ears or putting on a head clamp, one isn't necessarily in a place where one is carrying on a conversation in the first place. Wait until you're back up by the nosewheel. Or better yet, in the cockpit. Trying to block sound by covering your ears, you see, then trying to hear better...is somewhat in opposition. You can see that, can't you?

[Zenj]

My airline provides headsets and Sanicom wipes.

I have been using TELEX 550 and I have just received Telex 850 ANR ones from US via DHL.

I got it for 400$ from Sportys before shipping.

Z

[Pugilistic Animus]

You all should disregard Guppy's statements entirely--because he's an American:hmm:

[just kidding of course I don't want to piss him off:ouch:]



PA:}

[slip and turn]

I think I already did a bit, PA :}

So yes Mr Guppy, in response to your last: three bags full Sir :ok:. But temptation to remove said digit(s) from their ideal sealed location even a teensy bit will immediately start to flatten a few more villi, whereas donning proper ear defenders from the outset and leaving them there whilst you guide any communicant e.g. refueler, loader, dispatcher (using your third arm or one of your first two?) to a less noisy area might be the most sensible course. Alternatively I would guess that you may have perfected the nod with fingers still firmly in, not forgetting that thrown glance towards the nosewheel and then the 'follow me' type walk, Guppy :p. Oh I forgot. you don't go out, you have a man for that :O

Carrying defenders about the person is as mandatory on some aprons as hi-viz vests, but I guess visiting aircrew often don't know the local ear defender rules as well as the universal vest rule.

Sometimes, passengers are exposed to excessive apron levels too through plain ignorance I guess. Even happened unusually at Stansted with a Ryanair flight a couple of months ago. First sector of the day, passengers let on to apron and then held at the bottom of the steps for several minutes front and back with APU running.

By the way, am I right in thinking that sometimes a suitable noise reducing headset for the cockpit on a particular type may offer poor protection as a defender when walking round outside? In particular, several people have mentioned Telex 850 now - they wouldn't be much good on a busy apron even for a few minutes, so are they actually any good for the cockpits of older turboprops e.g. F50 as well as quieter fans?

One would assume not from the shape of them - so is something with proper deep cups needed in an F50 cockpit, or is it not as bad in there as it would appear to be from outside? I think the very best ear defenders must be required to go near F50 at startup, which I think is one of the noisiest types I still come across in recent years.

But you pilots don't carry defenders as a rule?

[Notso Fantastic]

Slip and Turn, please stop spouting this stuff you are coming out with in this thread- every post is bringing out howlers.
This thread is disgraceful reading from some of you. I take it many of you are in Europe?

There are laws protecting you. Your employer is obliged to provide your Personal Protection Equipment without charge, and replace it immediately without charge if it is damaged or unfit for use, and it must naturally be fit for purpose when it is originally provided.

You don't buy it yourself. You don't accept substandard equipment that compromises your safety by hurting your precious aviator's head like hell. You insist on the best compatible with your type. You are making a rod for everybody's backs if you do otherwise

What are you? Men or mice?

You argue yourselves silly about rosters, pay rates and pensions and then you let your employers fart about with essential personal safety equipment?

This is a primarily a pilot website. What stuff you are coming out with is incorrect.....every post. On ultra noist types, ANR headsets will probably be provided, they don't have to be. Most, possibly all, pilots, will be issued ear defenders. ANR headsets don't work outside the aircraft. There's nothing wrong with waiting at the stairs of a B737 with APU running. One wouldn't want to do it under the tail of a 1-11 with an APU running above your head.

Can you try and leave out the humour or irony? It doesn't come across well if you wish to be involved in a sensible discussion.

[A330AV8R]

buy your own , Got a brand new Telex off ebay for 100 bucks . . . .

safer n cleaner for your ears

:ok:

[slip and turn]

Well PA, it seems it takes all sorts in this business :hmm: ... oops! There we go, the brain fart disappeared :ok:

Notsofantastic, I don't think I have made any howlers other than that I have dared to suggest that senior pilots who propound the 'you must buy your own to be sure' idea are completely wrong to do so in my view. I don't know exactly how close your view is to that, but I can see you don't agree with the spanners idea. Buy your own and a spare from an approved list of the best and bill the company - sure, I'd see that as ok. In a big company I would have thought that was best organised by the company themselves. As for buying such a thing on eBay, you'd have to be damned sure of the source?

If you are a pilot supplied through an agency then I suppose the law becomes less distinct as to whose duty it is to provide the correct gear.

Sorry about the unclear question about use of cockpit headsets on the apron as 'make do defenders'. I was already thinking about extra noisy types like F50 with short distances between open cockpit windows and main engines when I asked. I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that F50 pilots would wear full cupped headsets even in the cockpit? I was thinking what then are they supposed to wear on the apron? The same cupped headset perhaps? I have rarely seen a pilot on an apron wearing any protection. Almost all I see are finger in the ear merchants at best.

Obviously I'd have to agree you'd look pretty silly prancing around on the apron in your new Telex 850s :}.

As for also telling me that it's ok for passengers to be left for undefined periods kicking their heels at the back of 737s with the APU running, we'll have to differ on that one :rolleyes:. I guess one man's ok is another's cumulative noise-induced deafness. I'm the one that wear's ear plugs at pop concerts and noisy London musicals - probably full cupped ear defenders would have been better at some of those, but as you say, 'common sense' (or do we mean common pride?) often dictates otherwise if you plan to be part of something :O.

I think it was Guppy who suggested that just plugging in and trying a headset to test it was good enough i.e. he found it appropriate to ridicule any suggestion that more elaborate testing might be necessary or that communications headsets should be subject to any rigorous log of serviceability. Fair enough. His imagination and undoubted experience just haven't been stretched as far as a rogue headset (re-)discovered at an awkward enough moment for it to be a big deal.

So what else is 'incorrect', Notso? I can see some are having trouble marrying my assertions about HS and Workers Compensation laws to the headset question in their jobs, is that what you call 'incorrect'? If so, what exactly is incorrect about it?

PS $100 off Ebay ?? That's two of you now that have said you got Telex from there? Does your company really just let you plug in something you got off Ebay? I appreciate you gentlemen wouldn't consciously plug in anything you weren't sure about, but isn't this just a further example of degradation of what by now should be a standardised norm?

[SNS3Guppy]

I think it was Guppy who suggested that just plugging in and trying a headset to test it was good enough i.e. he found it appropriate to ridicule any suggestion that more elaborate testing might be necessary or that communications headsets should be subject to any rigorous log of serviceability. Fair enough.


Fair enough? It's the proper testing method, and the only one available to the pilot. Plug it in, test to see if it works. Perhaps you don't know this, because you are not a pilot.

His imagination and undoubted experience just haven't been stretched as far as a rogue headset (re-)discovered at an awkward enough moment for it to be a big deal.


Which is why, as I have indicated repeatedly, I always carry an identical spare. Your reading comprehension lacks.

You here expounding at great length on the need for headsets and hearing protection and noise levels in cockpits, and you're not a pilot...is this true?

I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that F50 pilots would wear full cupped headsets even in the cockpit?


You make a lot of assumptions, but without a leg upon which to stand. You should stop.

[Pugilistic Animus]

If I ever have an explosive decompression---- I'll just refuse my to don O2 mask on the grounds that it is unsafe--- :ouch:

and NO FURTHER---ATC coms:=--until they do what I want



Oh c'mon JT--that coulda been a classic---a classic I tell ya!!:}

PA a.k.a



the cookie monster [a.k.a Lester :E

[Pugilistic Animus]

teensy bit will immediately start to flatten a few more villi,


Negative!!!---the sound wave transfered from the tympanic membranes via three ossicles[stapes, maleus, incus,]--- where they make contact with the membranous oval window where hair-cells---joined with tip-link proteins--to open channels which transduce the signal to the auditory nerve for further processing by the brain----Furthermore villi are situated in the fallopian tube of females [mammals] and small intestines of all mammals:=


PA

[slip and turn]

I think you'll find that villi is still a correct term for the hairy bits of your hair cells in the cochlea, PA. It's the villi or microvilli to give them the latest more common name, that get permanently damaged by excessive noise. I learned it 40 years ago in a two year course and examinations somewhat harder than I found most ATPL theory courses actually - Biology O'Level, and I got top grade :p.

I was also quite good at Latin so unlike you I wasn't surprised 35 years ago that the term villi was used to describe more than one than one type of cell. I see now that it isn't used so much now to describe auditory hair cells but if you Google for it you'll see what I mean.

Actually, at risk of splitting hairs further, and having been prompted by you and taken a look at it in Wikipedia, I see that they refer to something called the Organ of Corti now as a separate structure within or adjacent to the cochlea duct, and it is this that contains "hair bundles". It would seem this still isn't a very well understood part of the anatomy as any hearing loss patient will tell you. Best not to split hairs I think and just avoid all risks of damaging it ...

[Pugilistic Animus]

Negative again!!!!

yes I know of the cochlea---I was a Triple Major in college!!!

[slip and turn]

Oh Gawd, PA, so you think yours is bigger than mine, ... I didn't realise I was truly in a willie-waving contest.

Perhaps you will now explain to all present what's wrong with it now that allows you to dismiss it out of hand, and to detract from a discussion where knowing something about how hearing gets damaged might be useful? :rolleyes:

[Pugilistic Animus]

Explain the role of mammilary bodies in auditory processing from the affector--ear---to processing in the temporal lobe?

Explain the role of the Pinna

are sodium or potassium channels involved--how?

explain the vestibular apparatus?

what is signal transduction?

Re: microvilli--- what do they do?---how?
What is a lacteal?

Explain hepatic portal circulation? ---Where are microvilli found? large or small intestine?---what type of epithelium are they composed of

what are four roles of epithelium?

how many types of epithelium are there?

What are the other major tissue types

when does DNA replication occur---what cell types are products of meiosis?

what is the role of catalase in a cell?

how is dolly the sheep possible?
is it possible for two female mammals to produce an offspring why--why not?

will the off spring be male or female? why---why not--

How did scientist use the HIV virus with E coli bacteria produce insulin for Type I diabetics?

why are horseshoe crabs central figures in multibillion dollar biotechnology industry????

as I said I'm a muppet:}


oh yeah ATP theory:zzz:--FAA /JAA:zzz::}--PLANES ARE EASY:E



:}:}:}:}

Lester:E

[slip and turn]

Now you've totally lost it PA.

If you can remind the good people how hearing gets damaged by excessive noise, it might be useful.


BTW, yes I imagine sodium and potassium channels may be involved, as 30 years ago I did some biophysics (needles in cats brains type stuff - pretty rudimentary and I didn't much like the pictures).

[Pugilistic Animus]

ahh---biophysics---how is quantum mechanical tunneling important--in photosystem transport kinetics along the chlorophyll--Mg-- porphoryin system?---and yes, I had a job where I did Heart surgery on Mice--under a --not Men--under a dissecting---to figga out what wrong with their {jeans} in the cerebellum and CNS---been through enough cadavers to really know anatomy and physiology--


Why don't YOU go to google scholar and find the readers at pprune an article that supports you premise WRT hearing loss--otherwise you are just being the integral in the interval between ZEERO and ESS AY EXX DEE EXX:8

hint: spells half -A~~--if computed correctly:E

[slip and turn]

Yoiks :uhoh: ... I seem to have a new bestest friend :\

[Rainboe]

Maybe you two should go get a room! I think you lost everyone else!

[slip and turn]

Boy am I pleased to see you, Rainboe:O

I was thinking just the same as you, and didn't expect to see any real faces again in this thread, so please Rainboe, don't leave me alone with him - I just watched the video he posted on the Ryanair 600 thread last night which went kind of unnoticed, but actually it's more worrying than it sounds :\

When someone comes along and finally buries this latest rubbish please bury me somewhere different. I have a nasty feeling PA ain't human - burying me would shut me up, but burying him just won't work and I think he said he does things to cadavers :{

PS Sorry about the mess