Aerobatic MEPs

[TheGorrilla]

I don't mean Members of the European Parliment who can't tell their arse from their elbow!

Vexxed as usual. I'm trying to think if there are any aerobatic twin engined aeroplanes in GA (F15s don't count!). I think the Cri-Cri may be aerobatic but I'm not sure. :hmm::hmm:

[Contacttower]

Beech 18 maybe?

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/edbellamy/younkb18ss.jpg

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

The Cri-Cri is definitely aerobatic, flown one and it's a fantastic piece of kit. The Beech 18 is probably not aerobatic but the yanks do it anyway (probably on an experimental Cat CofA), as is the Aero Commander that Bob Hoover used to fly...

Cant think of any other GA types at the moment..


But wait - The Grumman Tigercat that used to lead the balbo at legends....?

[Malcolm G O Payne]

Some years ago I had the privelege of flying with the late Peter Phillips in his two-seat Speedtwin, which was intended to be fully aerobatic. Unfortunately I beleive Peter died before certification was completed and the aircraft is in storage somewhere. The tandem seating was a little cramped and it reminded me of a Piper Cub. I still have a copy of the marketing publicity.

[Zulu Alpha]

Google Bob Hoover. He used to fly a twin and was quite amazing.

http://loswonders.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/legendary-wwii-pilot-bob-hoover-pouring-iced-tea-during-a-barrell-roll-el-legendario-piloto-de-la-segunda-guerra-mundial-bob-hoover-sirviendo-te-helado-durante-una-pirueta/

Here he is barrel rolling and pouring a glass of water....backwards, a bit like patting your head and rubbing your stomach.

ZA

[will5023]

I seem to remember the Speed Twin being resurected, now fitted with LOM engines, wasn't it recently in the LAA magazine ?

Will.

[Flyingcircusace]

Not been called then...

Easy life on the electric twin

[Sakura-Ichiban]

Mosquito the one in New Zealand gives a great demo :)

[ronnie3585]

I believe the ATR 42-500 is fully aerobatic, as was demonstrated recently:}

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/05/16/223759/atr-may-have-been-damaged-in-barrel-roll.html

[TheGorrilla]

Blimey. I didn't think there were any twins purpose built for aeros (Cri-cri built primarily to be small?). Certainly wouldn't fancy pushing any sustained negative g in any of those aircraft, especially the Beech. But then, is there any point in building a thoroughbred twin aerobat? Perhaps not. I do know someone who stall turned an Aztec though.. Shall remain nameless. Apparently the standard spin recovery worked very well on the old truck.

[AdamFrisch]

Sorry to necropost, but none of these twins were certified in the Aerobatic Category (the Cri Cri not certified, so that's aerobatic). They're all in the Normal Category or as in the case with Bob Hoovers 500U, in the Utility Category. So every time we see a display involving a twin it's in the FAA's Experimental Exhibition certification category, with all the limitations that entails.

[Rod1]

Info on the Speedtwin below. If you want to pull serious G the Cri Cri is ok up to 12g.

Rod1

AIRCRAFT HISTORY

The Speedtwin Comet 1 has been under development since the early 2000's.

March 2007 saw the first flight of the pre-production prototype
All official test flying programmes were completed in April 2011 resulting in the Speedtwin Comet 1 being the only civil twin engine aircraft cleared for intentional spinning

In July 2012 the Speedtwin Comet 1 participated in the daily aerobatic flying display at the Farnborough International Air Show - FIA12.

Continued development of the aircraft combined with extensive flight-testing has established the Speedtwin Comet 1 as an unrivalled aircraft of its type with no other comparable aircraft offering this level of flexibility and performance.




UNIQUE FEATURES

The Speedtwin Comet 1 offers: -

Rough field performance - no runway required
Twin engines for safe flight over water and hostile terrain (one of few light twins to offer a safe, single engine performance)
Short field capability
Aerobatic providing unrivalled manoeuvrability
Ultimate stress limits of +9G/-4.5G
Economical to operate and maintain
Strong, reliable and safe

[BackPacker]

"Aerobatic" to me implies that you should be able to do spins and snap rolls, and stop them with reasonable accuracy. To do so you not only need a strong and effective rudder, but you also need a low "polar moment of inertia". In other words: All the heavy stuff needs to be as close to the CofG as possible.

With conventional twins you have two big lumps of weight reasonably far away from the CofG. That would make spinning, snapping and particularly the accurate recovery from those, well, interesting.

Bob Hoovers display is certainly interesting, but I don't think I've seen him do a spin or snap roll.

[treadigraph]

I think if you read Hoover's autobiography, he used to demonstrate (flat?) spins in a P-38 during the war until one recovery nearly didn't happen. Can't remember if he ever tried it in the Shrike.


(OK, I know warbirds don't count here but Pete Kynsey's Tigercat displays at Duxford were superb... I miss that aeroplane.)

[Jan Olieslagers]

The argument about "polar moment of inertia" is elaborated upon in the wikipedia article about the Do-335 - worth a read!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-335

Talking of push-pull planes, how's about acro in a Skymaster?

[IFMU]

My father learned acro in a Citabria. Years ago he got a ride in a C337 from a guy who flew them in Nam. He said they were boring along at 160kt and the guy asked what he thought about a split S at that speed. Dad said it sounded like a bad idea. Rolled upside down, props to low pitch, power back, and did the whole split S with the needle about stuck at 160. Lots of drag. My dad thought it was neat.
Bryan

[worrab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE :)

[djpil]

NASA did some interesting spin tests on a light twin some years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cJkjk0hOU8

[Ampage]

Can't think of any other than those mentioned.. certainly no GA aircraft that are truly aerobatic.

But if I had a few hundred grand/few mil spare for warbirds... the DeHaviland Mosquito would be my choice.

Google also yielded this ghastly thing:
Speedtwin E2E Comet 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedtwin_E2E_Comet_1)

[Jan Olieslagers]

Check this one, but I'm not sure you could buy one.

Simmering-Graz-Pauker M.222V2 Flamingo (http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/VanTilborg/8669.htm)