3 day trip - first time in europe flying, advice please

[Vulcan607]

Hi planning a 3 day trip down from Scotland - if wx permits, would be first time flying on the continent.

Would like to do stop off at southend then head on over to Ostende on the 1st day.

2nd day:
Ostende - LeTouqet/Dinard/Par.Beauv (undecided yet)
then onto the channel islands.

As it be first time flying into these places, jst looking for advice on customs, PPR, flight plans and if anyone could copy+paste links to the appropriate charts I should buy for this I would appreciate it very much.

Thanks

[echobeach]

i am not the most experienced tourer but i find flying in europe very relaxing with some proper planning.
The jeppesen vfr charts are very good and it easy to see the regional information service who will give fis or ris. We just crossed dvr to koksy and although this is a longish crossing in a single the coast is not far to the east most of the way. Oostend are very helpful.
In france worth having the 1:1000000 map i think from delarge which i good for perspective.
Lfat will always be a favorite as so friendly and helpful.

[Rugbyears]

What is the A/C type, how many hours do you have..?

Although, ICAO requires all member states to use English over the radio as the preferred option, the French appear to think somewhat differently – Why shouldn’t they, after all it is there country!! Therefore, if you are unfamiliar with the French language, I would suggest you speak in English only, however, I would recommend making radio contact more frequent then normal as to make others aware of your presence. Try and learn ‘Key’ French words which you can use only in the event of an emergency. You will have a fabulous time.

http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm (http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm)
http://www.pilotfriend.com/flightplanning/flight%20planning/vfr_rules_fr.htm (http://www.pilotfriend.com/flightplanning/flight%20planning/vfr_rules_fr.htm)
http://www.theflyingschool.co.uk/flying_to_france.htm (http://www.theflyingschool.co.uk/flying_to_france.htm)
http://flyinfrance.free.fr/ (http://flyinfrance.free.fr/)
http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/product10860023catno2040023.html (http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/product10860023catno2040023.html)

Best of luck and safe flying…..:ok:

[Vulcan607]

a/c type will be PA-28 140 most likely and hrs are at 120 - plan to do 15 hrs over the 3 days

Thanks for the links, will look into them

[IO540]

French enroute ATC speak English, as they must.

ATC at international airports must also speak English. Some of it is better than other but usually good enough. You should just avoid "conversation" because many foreign ATCOs know only the stock phrases in English.

French is necessary only if going to non-international airfields, but one cannot fly to/from those from/to the UK anyway.

For France, the most official charts are the 1:1M SIA ones.

However, the 1:500k IGN charts are much nicer to use for low level VFR flight. They unfortunately go only up to ~ 5000ft which is quite restrictive as in France one can fly to FL110 in the Class E routes and these are really useful.

[Jodelman]

French is necessary only if going to non-international airfields, but one cannot fly to/from those from/to the UK anyway.

Not exactly right, I think. What about Abbeville and Amiens as a couple of examples?

[IO540]

Sure, there are some exceptions. Probably with PPR. But with PPR you can achieve a great deal, if you have the contacts.

But France isn't like the UK, where every piece of tarmac over 1000m is trying to be "London International [insert the nearest village name]" and is charging a fortune to land. You can land at say Biarritz for peanuts - the airports are subsidised by the local chamber of commerce, etc.

[DFC]

Although, ICAO requires all member states to use English over the radio as the preferred option, the French appear to think somewhat differently


Not true.

The language used shall be the language of the ground station or if this is not possible then English.

Everyone should now have the Language certificate of competence in their licence.

Unless you have French competence level 4 or better in your licence then you can not operate to airfields where the R/T is French only - not many places but if this is the case it will be published.

Check the publications. Most of the north coast airfields can use English if you are not competent in Fench however, many close for (a long) lunch and during lunch only French is used.

Don't forget that the Channel Islands are not in the EU and not in the UK either. Therefore, customs, immigration and such regulations that may be relaxed for intra EU flights are not relaxed for flights to / from the Channel islands.

Remember that VFR is VFR - Aviate, Navigate, Commuicate.

Regards,

DFC

[LH2]

They unfortunately go only up to ~ 5000ft

Do not have them with me, although as I'm in France I'll try to have a look at them in the club tomorrow, but don't they go to 5000ft AMSL or 3000ft AGL, whichever is higher? For one thing, if they only go up to 5000ft AMSL, then my airfield is off the chart :}

You should just avoid "conversation" because many foreign ATCOs know only the stock phrases in English.

IME the French speak excellent English in terms of vocabulary and grammar (or maybe it's just that I've flown in Spain a bit too much), it's their accent that it's sometimes utterly unintelligible (and often it doesn't get any better when they speak French).

Strictly speaking, French is necessary where the AIP says it is, it might be "international" (as in, customs available) airfields, and even normally controlled airfields (outside of ATC hours). Conversely, it's also not necessary at many smaller AFIS-only strips.

As has been said before, whether you can land on a particular aerodrome or not, coming direct from the UK, depends on whether it says "customs available" on the AIP. A lot of municipal aerodromes (grass strip kind of affair) are points of entry, the only requirement being you phone/fax in advance so they can decide whether they want to send a customs officer to meet you. I've never flown direct to France from outside Schengen so don't know the intimate details though.

But France isn't like the UK, where every piece of tarmac over 1000m is trying to be "London International [insert the nearest village name]" and is charging a fortune to land. You can land at say Biarritz for peanuts - the airports are subsidised by the local chamber of commerce, etc.

Fully agreed. It's such a pleasure (and affordable) to fly here :)

with PPR you can achieve a great deal, if you have the contacts.

PPR in France involves calling the number given in the aerodrome chart on the AIP (usually the local aeroclub) and asking about landing there. The reason a lot of places are PPR is because of local procedures/restrictions (such as no take-off and landings during lunch hours, dodgy approach procedures, etc.), and making those PPR is a way to force outsiders to get in touch with someone who can fill you in on any relevant details you need to know.

Of course, many of those are rural strips and they're not always keen on outsiders, especially but by no means only, foreigners. If you're not fluent in French, it pays to get someone who is and phone them up for you, then just say you were looking at landing there on such an such a date, and whether it would be possible and is there anything you should know, etc. As usual, a bit of courtesy goes a long way :)

Anyway, to the OP, have an enjoyable trip.

[gasax]

Well 3 days isn't long enough but...

From Ostend my suggestion would be ignore LeTouq and push onto Deauville - much nicer and if you have to overnight Honfleur is rather pleasant.

Along this coast once of the bigger issues is sea fog. Your alternative is this either quite a long way inland or maybe even back across the Channel.... So it elps to be well prepared.

Suggest you try nav200.com - excellent flight planning site which school boy French will get you through.

[Vulcan607]

I know 3 days isnt long enough - I wish I could have a week so I could even get to Tempelhof but personal restrictions at the moment with other commitments means its only the 3 days unfortunately.

I'll have a look at the airfields you mentioned, would I be best to get the VFR charts for france/low countries from Transair?

[echobeach]

Dont be put off Tempelhof or long distance with only 3 days. We went out to Berlin from London Saturday morning and back Sunday morning 2 weeks ago. 5 hours approx each way with one stop in Holland. Great if you have good weather.

Last year we managed west coast of France, across the Pyreenes, northern Spain and back up the Rhone valley in 3 days. That was my first touring trip of Europe.

It is the stopping and time on the ground at airfields that takes all the time, not the time in the air.

[gasax]

Transair. Pooleys, spend a couple of minutes on the website and decide based on price. Personally I find Transair poor value. However from memory the Belgium chart can be hard to get hold of, so if XYZ have it buy the rest there.

The Vol a Vue 1:1,000,000 fight planning charts and danger area stuff is very useful for France - but you can probably get most of that from nav2000.com. I think there is a later, better version nav3000.fr.

For what it is worth try to arrange your flights over lunchtime when in France - most of the country is closed at lunchtime which really helps you. Just make sure you get fuel before or well after lunch - otherwise it is an enforced lunch at whatever airfield you are at - but at least most have restaruants!!!

And leave plenty of time in the evenings for browsing menus