Inoculations during the first Gulf War

[backflip]

I served out in Bahrain during Operation Dessert shield 1990 and was given inoculations on the day of disembarking .
To this day I don’t know what they were.
I recently received a copy of all my medical documentation but there appears to be no record for this time.
As I have recently had treatment for Lymphoma I was advised to find out what these inoculations where but have come up against a brick wall.
Anyone got any clues what they shot in our arms ?

[Al R]

You need to dig deeper, and not knowing your circumstances, this is going to be speculation. But Pyridostigmine and Swualene to counter chemical and biological agents are possibly going to have been chucked into you. The RBL is continuing to fight for Gulf War folks like you, so they will be the best port of call. It had a Conference about it today.

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/content/Gulf-War-Group-513202.shtml

All the very best. :ok:

[Dimmer Switch]

Check your PMs

[Thud_and_Blunder]

In a former existence, Brian Dixon (he of the amazing Chinook campaign...) was one of the folk whose job included sticking noxious substances into our arms. It was also Brian who offered sage advice when the MoD/RAF sent a signal asking all recipients of these inoculations to return their copies of their documentation for unspecified reasons. Not that it took the nose of a bloodhound to detect something strongly piscine in the request...

[jez_s]

Was out there with the Chinooks and have still got my old jab book...P.M if I can help!

http://www.veterans-uk.com

Not sure if this link is any help, but good luck mate.

[backflip]

Thanks for the response Ladies/Gents.

I still have my (old) inoculations card but there is nothing on it for this time.
All I remember of it is queuing up in the movements hanger at Bruggen and getting at least two jabs in my left arm (one straight after the other).


Don't remember any ill effects at the time but when I was diagnosed in December 2004 the hospital carried out a survey on my medical history.
When I Informed them of my service in the first Gulf War alarm bells started ringing and I was told that I wasn't the first Vet they had seen with this type of illness (albeit it a different type of Lymphoma).

As I am still serving I am lead to believe that I cannot take any further action until I leave the service next year (as I haven't been offered further service because of my condition (which is in remission) .

P.S. I didn't take NAPS.

Once again thank you for your responses.

[Brian Dixon]

Backflip,
firstly, good to hear that you are in remission.

Ask the med centre what is written on the back of your med docs (F Med 4), as that was always a place to record innoculations. If you still need to find out what the jabs were, PM me.

Alternatively, you can always use everybody's friend - the Freedom of Information Act. Ask the MoD to supply a copy of innoculations you received prior to deployment. This serves two purposes. Firstly, you could get the list you seek. Alternatively, the MoD will have to acknowledge that they don't know what you were given and that would seriously weaken any defence to a claim you may make.

Have you spoken to these people: http://www.gulfveteransassociation.co.uk/

Good luck
Brian

[glad rag]

Just an OT reply here,I find it heartening that there are those who still care.

Good luck to you all.

Glad Rag. :ok:

[backflip]

I recently received copies of all my Medical & Personnel doc,s via the freedom of information act .
As I say this does not include any information (except the results of a Hearing Conservation Test) for my time at Bruggen or on deployment to the Gulf.
Once again thank you for the contact details
Much appreciated.

[Exrigger]

Thud_and_Blunder, when I returned to Gutersloh with the Chinooks I fell for that request and returned my docs and never seen them since.

[snowball1]

Still use my same old jab book from the first gulf war with all the records of what i was given, have to dig it out to look at what i was given. I remember my mate suffering from a huge rash on his back following the jabs, don't know if he ever found out what caused it though.

[coffindodger]

hi i also still have my old jab book and still use it even today.
even though i have been out of the mob for over 13 years.
ifan help please feel free to pm me .
i had zero ill effects from any of the jabs how ever i did have a bad dose of the ****s even time i took the maps / bats tablets.

[Dan D'air]

how ever i did have a bad dose of the ****s

Not nice when you are wearing the same NBC rig for days on end.........:O

[N Joe]

Backflip

Just to add to the earlier comment, the Data Protection Act may be more applicable than FoI.

My GW1 deployment was to Swanton Morley so no jabs required, but I reacted badly to the multiple (unknown) jabs for Deny Flt. I mentioned this when asked if I ever reacted badly when having the jabs for my last deployment. Was told that it was probably the Yellow Fever jab which was "much worse in those days"; not particularly comforting.

All the best

N Joe

[FJJP]

When I asked what the jabs were, they were embarrassed to admit they didn't know. I flatly refused to have the jabs; even the SMO didn't know and pressure was applied but I stuck to my guns.

By law, you are entitled to examine and have a copy of your medical records. Don't be put off if you are told the law doesn't apply to the Forces - that's been tried and is bullsh*t. If that happens, a solicitor's letter will usually get action...

[Mind you, there's no knowing if that info has been edited out previously]

[covec]

I was given Anthrax but decided to refuse the Bubonic Plague jab. A good job too as I was really ill for three days after the anthrax jab. One fellow crew member ended up in hospital after deciding to have both of the above jabs in the one day as instructed by senior officers at the time.

Those of us who refused to have both jabs were told that the insurance companies would be made aware in the event of any claim being made!

I believe that the anthrax jab was a "live vaccine" that will "never" be used again.

[glad rag]

I believe that the anthrax jab was a "live vaccine" that will "never" be used again.

Some guys went down with pneumonia after that little dose........:rolleyes:

[Lima Juliet]

Anthrax, Anthrax, Anthrax...

Hundreds of thousands of wool, cattle and textile workers are inoculated with the Anthrax vaccine every year - sheep shearers sometimes have 2 a year. I've had it a few times and have had no ill effects (no, I'm not a sheep shearer or sh@gger!).

Now having lots of vaccines at the same time, that will potentially really screw you up. But a single Anthrax jab shouldn't, unless you have an allergy to it.

By the way, a mate of mine had the full concoction in Dahran during GW1 - he claims he hasn't had a cold since!

Good luck with your treatment, mate :ok:

LJ

[deltahotel]

meningitis, typhoid, anthrax, pertussis (whooping cough, which supposedly made the anthrax jab work quicker), cutter - haven't a clue what that was!! DLB comments on some of this stuff in his book 'Storm Command' Hope this helps DH

[nigegilb]

The Anthrax jab was given to members of 47 Sqn on a volunteer basis in 2003 for GW2. I refused. A medical presentation was given on the Sqn and the medics did not like the intensity of questioning. Days after the boys deployed to the Gulf Trevor Macdonald did a special on the Anthrax jab. It wasn't considered safe. Could it be you were given Anthrax jab without even knowing?

[Jackonicko]

An uncomfortably large, statistically improbable number of Gulf War aircrew had awful illnesses afterwards, including several fatal cancers.

There's some kind of very upsetting story there.

I remember Bob Brownlow with great sadness that he's not still among us. One of the brightest and the best, and as nice a chap as his Dad and Jag-poling younger brother.

Losing his like is worse than tragic.

[nigegilb]

I dug out this summary of the Trevor Mac program.

EMBARGOED UNTIL 00.01, MONDAY, MARCH 17, 2003

MOD ANTHRAX VACCINE CONTAINS SQUALENE

'Tonight with Trevor McDonald'
Monday, March 17, 2003 on ITV1 at 8pm

Military anthrax vaccine contains a potentially dangerous substance, which the Ministry of Defence has previously denied, according to a special TV investigation.

ITV1's Tonight with Trevor McDonald programme this evening [Monday] at 8pm, has obtained MOD Anthrax vaccine samples which tested positive for Squalene - an agent that has not been granted a licence for use in drugs.

The revelation comes as more than half of British service people heading to the Gulf have refused a voluntary Anthrax vaccination, according to the Liberal Democrats. Last week Defence spokesman Paul Keetch MP said that of the 16,538 service personnel offered the jabs only 8,103 accepted.

The capsules containing the Anthrax vaccine were washed up on a beach in Bridport, Dorset in January. The MOD are currently investigating the samples but have not been able to discover how the vaccines got there.

The Tonight team acquired some of the Bridport capsules, which were tested in a government-accredited laboratory SAL based in Manchester. The results showed that the vaccine contains 36 parts of Squalene per billion.

Professor Malcolm Hooper, a scientist who sits on two independent committees set up the government to investigate illnesses of Gulf war veterans, tells the programme that - even in miniscule amounts - Squalene can generate Auto Immune Disease.

"Squalene can generate antibodies which can result in Auto Immune Disease," says Professor Hooper. "So they attack our own bodies with our own immune system and this can effect nerve, it can effect cardiac tissue, it can effect skin… So Squalene is a no, no. It's not been recommended for use in human vaccines, its been tried in a lot of animal experiments.

"Squalene is bad news but we know some UK veterans from the first Gulf war had got Squalene anti-bodies in their blood and that was surprising because again it was said [by the MOD] there was no Squalene in any of the vaccines that our people had been given from the UK sources."

Professor Hooper says that even minute traces of Squalene could have serious side effects: "You don't need very much, the immune system is extremely sensitive at that sort of level we're talking about… An almugram is a millionth of a gram, we're talking about a thousand billions to the gram…the body does respond to these very tiny amounts of some substances and so I am really concerned."

The MOD has consistently denied that the Anthrax vaccine contains Squalene and their own tests did not reveal any. They say they're still waiting for the results of research into whether any of their vaccines from Operation Desert Storm made British troops sick.

The Department of Health - who encompass the Medicines Control Agency - tells Tonight that Squalene has never been included in the UK licensed Anthrax vaccine and that Squalene is not used in the manufacture of the vaccine.

But Dr Pam Asa who is affiliated to the Tulane Medical School in Louisiana, USA, believes that the programme's findings are highly significant and mean that the current Anthrax vaccine may be potentially dangerous. Dr Asa has tested more than 300 former US military personnel who were given vaccinations before the 1991 Gulf War.

Says Dr Asa: "It gave us the opportunity to have the vaccine analysed for content, to determine if there was Squalene in it and this was our first opportunity. It was a treasure, because denials are one thing but when you actually have it chemically analysed you get to the truth."

Although Squalene occurs naturally in the body, scientific research has shown that when it is injected it could have a different effect. "We eat a number of things that we would not inject in our bodies," says Dr Asa. The fact is when we ingest through our mouths…it goes into our bodies in a way that our body accepts it and uses it for nutritional purposes. When we inject it, it goes into the lymphatic system and is processed in a very different way and our body recognizes injected Squalene as a foreign material that it needs to react to, immunologically."

"I have a patient who got ten parts [of Squalene] per billion and he has gone on to develop rheumatoid arthritis, he has a very high level of anti Squalene antibodies. He received two Anthrax shots that contain Squalene, determined by the Food and Drug Administration, and then went on to develop Rheumatoid Arthritis. Others in his group his unit have developed Lupus in their mass and Auto Immune Disease.

"I'm afraid we'll see people developing the same diseases that I've seen from the 1998 - 2000 group, which is again Lupus, MS, Rheumatoid Arthritis and ALS."

As British troops await orders in the Gulf, Tonight speaks to Ray Bristow, a Gulf war veteran from 1991 who believes that the drugs and vaccines given to him are responsible for over 30 conditions he has now been diagnosed with - including fits, memory loss, incontinence and chronic fatigue.

"When I went out to the Gulf I was obviously very fit, otherwise they wouldn't let me go," says Ray. "I used to run marathons for charities as a hobby. I'd run fifty miles a week. When I first came back, my health started to deteriorate. I remember sitting on the end of the bed with my head in my hands thinking I was going mad. I couldn't understand what was happening… I've had my dignity stripped from me and it should never have happened."

The former army medic says that the British vaccination programme in Operation Desert Storm was a disgrace and lessons should be learnt: "I would say it was a very shambolic way of vaccinating people. Nobody knew what was being given. Who knows if they were giving the correct dosages? It was a complete disgrace; I never witnessed anything like it in my twenty years in the health services.

"For me its too late [but] if they rush the vaccine programme again you're going to get lots of troops [who] will come back sick in ten years time. If they can wait for men and materials to be deployed, they can wait for the ships to get there with the tanks, then surely they can wait an extra few weeks so they can initiate the vaccine programme in a proper manner."

Shaun Rusling, chairman of the National Gulf Veterans and Families Association, says that Tonight's findings are highly significant: "The presence of Squalene in the Anthrax vaccine is extremely significant. It would not surprise me if the Bridport sample was thrown overboard by outgoing troops to Iraq who know what the vaccine contains."

Minister of Defence, Dr Lewis Moonie, has previously stated that tests might reveal antibodies for Squalene in war veterans but has categorically denied it came from any Anthrax vaccination. He has also stated that, "There is no such thing as Gulf war syndrome - they're a collection of illnesses which don't fit any particular pattern".

The Tonight programme has presented its findings to the MOD and is awaiting a response.

ENDS

[backflip]

Thanks again Ladies/Gents for your responses.

I will be taking this one further when I leave the service next year.
(Or if anyone knows of a good solicitor sooner).

Its interesting to see that I'm not alone in my quest to find out what was in those jabs.

I know its easy to blame any illness on the first thing that comes to mind, but when I told one of the speciallist who was compiling my dosier that I had served in the first Gulf War & that I had innoculations that couldn't be found in my records, he responded instantly with quote:
" O not another one" :eek:

I didn't think much of it at the time but it had always been at the back of my mind.
" What did he mean by that?"

Unfortunately I don't remember his name so I cannot verify with him in what context this was meant.

Thanks again
Backflip

[Shadwell the old]

I was in Seeb for Gulf War 1 and we were visited by a team of medics who had been instructed to give us all a series of jabs. I had anthrax, bubonic plague, mnemonic (??) plague and at least 1 other. We were told this was highly classified and I think our jab certs were stamped but not given to us to keep.

All was well until about 9 months later when I started with a cold which became (real) flu. After 3 days of very high temperatures and soaked bedsheets with the sweat, Mrs Shadwell insisted that I went to see the doc and was taken from ISK to Inverness with blue lights flashing, as the doc thought I had meningitis. After a few days in isolation and a heap of blood tests, they discounted meningitis, but said it was a strange virus normally seen in chickens (no puns please). I then told the doc about the jabs and he went very quiet.

Told me to rest for 6 months (I did not) as it had affected my immune system. He told me that every time I got a cold I would be laid low. He was correct.

Never bothered to register with the Gulf Veterans but maybe I should have.

[99Tarbox]

I served with Bob Brownlow when he was an exchange instructor in the A-6 training squadron (VA-42) at NAS Oceana, VA. A great pilot, officer & squadron mate. We made many weapons training detachments to NAS El Centro, CA where he excelled based on his QWRI(?) background in Tornados. All of us who served with him miss him very much.

[Surplus]

I refused both the Anthrax and the Bubonic plague jabs, I got sent to see the SMO who said I wouldn't be able to deploy and that it would 'go on my records' that I had refused the innoculations. I was able to deploy, because these jabs became 'optional' 2 weeks after my initial jab appointment and they were pulled very shortly after that, I assume due to the low take-up of the jabs.

[BEagle]

For GW1, I recall having been ordered to have pre-deployment inoculations against Meningitis, Anthrax, Bubonic plague and being given some others to assist the protection all this was supposed to give. Another couple of inoculations in theatre at KKIA, I think it was another Anthrax and Meningitis booster?

A stiff arm and some reddening was about all.

NAPs didn't have any adverse effect, but it was obvious that no-one had anticipated taking them for more than a few days, so they stopped being obligatory fairly soon.

In 2001 when we were flying to places such as Freetown, I had Polio, Typhoid and Hepatitis A inoculations in February, Tetanus and Meningitis in April, then Diptheria and a 6-monthly Hepatitis A in August....and Anthrax again in Feb 2002 before Bliar's GW2.

I don't recall any of the above being 'optional' though. Some of them were a bit painful, but I don't recall any unusual side effects.

I thought that a combination of the use of organophosphate pesticides whilst taking NAPs was supposed to have been the main reason behind 'Gulf War Syndrome'?

[PapaDolmio]

I think half the problem in GW1 was we prepared for war based on what we expected in a war in Central Europe and therefore, lets admit it, who amongst us expected to survive even a conventional war in CE?
To that end, I'm not convinced many of the inoculations and potions were really tested as there wouldn't have been many of us around to see any long term effects?
As an aside and thinking about Chilcot, I don't recall any vast inoculation programme or issue of naps etc prior to Telic, yet we were supposedly going in to remove the threat of CW, BIO weapons- strange?

[Old Bricks]

I was deployed on the first Hercules with Rick Peacock-Edwards and Co to Dhahran. When the decision was made to send UK military to the Gulf on 10 Aug 90, I was at HQSTC, and only given a few hours to get my stuff together and get to Lyneham. At that stage, no-one knew where we were going, and RAF High Wycombe was closed for lunch, so I went with what I had at home. Arriving at Lyneham that evening, I met with about 70-80 others from all over the UK, all, bar one, rubbing their bottoms and arms. On enquiring, they all said that they had had arm and a*sefuls of jabs at their home bases. As I had had nothing, I enquired of what appeared to be the only other officer with a non-rubbed arm and a*se, who turned out to be the doctor. He said that since we had no idea where we were going, he wasn't going to have any jabs until he'd established the local risk, and advised me to follow his lead. About 2 days later, having set up in Dhahran, he told me there was no local risk and therefore no jabs needed. About a week later I moved to Riyadh, where I ended up working out of the British Embassy. Because of that, I think I slipped under the vaccine etc threshold, and never had a thing, either from jab or by mouth. I came back to UK in Dec 90, before the immediate pre-combat panic, so have always counted myself as very lucky.

[BEagle]

Hey, Old Bricks, remember one of the joys of the first few days at Towers back in 1968 - the mass inoculation queue?

They needed to do a blood typing for our 1250s as well, so we were all milling around when a big black medico chap announced with a smile what was going to happen next; first the blood typing then he said "When you have bin' bled - over to the queue for your jabs". Thoughts of some less-than-quaint tribal ceremony flashed through my mind and few people went rather white. Then the inoculations, with one or two keeling over at the sight of the needles....

I didn't realise you were at Riyadh in 1990! I flew back from Muharraq in Dec 90, but then back out to KKIA, by which time you would have been back in Blighty.

The GW1 inoculations weren't much fun - except for the second Anthrax which was administered by a delightful little reservist doctor with big blue eyes and blonde hair. Her olive drab t-shirt also indicated that it was clearly rather chilly in the underground hospital....;)

[Two's in]

I used to remind the troops during GW1 that the reassurances of safety came from the same people who told us that baggy shorts and sunglasses were ideal safety wear for watching nuclear detonations.

[mcdhu]

Ladies and Gents,
I have stumbled upon this thread rather belatedly, but here goes...
Although I was not 'in theatre' for GW 1 (I got out days before it kicked off), I was vaccinated in UK in Jan and Feb 91 with 2 doses each of Anthrax and Pertussis (.5ml) - I still have the RAF Form B/Med/27 (Rev) to prove it.
Cut
25 years later aged 69, I find myself on the verge of being diagnosed with an auto-immune system malfunction. While I accept that it would be hard to prove any connection between the two events, I wondered if anyone knows of any one/organisation with whom I might get in touch to assist me with managing this rather troublesome condition given the history.
Many thanks for reading this
mcdhu

[Tocsin]

As an aside and thinking about Chilcot, I don't recall any vast inoculation programme or issue of naps etc prior to Telic, yet we were supposedly going in to remove the threat of CW, BIO weapons- strange?

Can confirm a few jabs before deployment (yellow fever, anthrax 1 and some others I can't remember), more anthrax (2&3) and NAPS while there - along with the the usual combipens. Also issued with anti-malarial tablets - not taken. The combipens were probably the most dangerous - there were at least a couple of atropine poisoning events!

[Old Bricks]

BEagle
All I remember is some licensed vampire sticking a scalpel into the lobe of my ear, thus starting an unstoppable torrent of blood running down my neck, despite a wad of gauze. Once outside, I was informed by one of the genteel sgts (not Uncle Les) that if it hadn't been in our first few days, I would have been charged with unauthorised bleeding and having a dirty shirt collar. Early lesson in the illogicality of the RAF!!
Old Bricks

[BEagle]

Old Bricks, fortunately in my case it was just a small prick...

...by the medic to my ear, I mean!

About 12 years after GW1, I discovered to my horror that in the depths of some long-disused kit I still had some live combopens, NAPs, BATs and even a few of those yellow Temazepan capsules they'd given us...along with a First Aid kit which included some form of morphine.

The normal trick was to dump all NBC contraband in the desk drawer of one of our Air Engs (sorry, Pete!) - but he'd left the RAF by then. So I went over to the Rock-ery and managed to get rid of it all without any problems....

The other day I found my OP GRANBY 'Survival Kit Individual Mk 2', which contains the following:

Part A - Sleeping Bag, candle, tampons (was this WRAF issue, or what...:ooh:)
Part B - Fishing kit (lots of rivers in the desert...), firelighting kit, fire blocks :eek:, compass, needles, scalpel, water purification tablets, cotton wool, nylon cord, brass wire, wire saw pocket heavy (handy for felling all those trees in the desert, no doubt?), water carriers and an instruction sheet. All of which are in a vac-packed foil package measuring about 3" x 2½" x 1"...
Part C - Foil blanket.

:\

[Pontius Navigator]

BEagle, Salmon Fishing in Yemen?

No condoms?

Instruction Sheet? We used to have a bl**dy book. In my younger, keener days I tried to get hold of the Desert, Jungle and Arctic booklets only to be told, Survival Packs only.

[BEagle]

...I tried to get hold of the Desert, Jungle and Arctic booklets...

I think I've still got a set of those somewhere.

During groundschool at RAFC one afternoon in the early '70s, a chum was leafing through the jungle booklet and announced to no-one in particular "Oh look, 'Umma humma al hoo jong? - Have you got change for the phone?'...."

Whereupon one of the dimmer studes piped up "Is there a phrasebook in there then, mate?"

He didn't graduate.....:rolleyes:

[NutLoose]

mcdhu (http://www.pprune.org/members/13796-mcdhu)

have a look at the first 10 or so posts

[NutLoose]

Here you go Beagle, not everything needs a WRAF

Yes, That?s A Tampon In My Mouth: The Swiss Army Survival Tampon — 10 Survival Uses | The Art Of Manliness (http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/06/05/survival-tampon/)

[triskele]

On the maritime side we had a bit of time for the cutter (bubonic) and pertussis (adjuvant), but a couple of weeks later there was scramble to give anthrax. I recall 2 things clearly, one was our American colleagues were not to be informed, which was weird as we were supporting the minesweeps (USA inc) and they were asking as they weren't given anthrax. The second was the vaccine was very new and definitely USA manufac. To be honest my memory is shady as my certificates state anthrax/pertussis in Jan and anthrax/pertussis/plague in feb, which may mean the plague was usa manuf. Sorry to confuse you all, interesting moduk thought one was vital but our american friends did not.

[NutLoose]

This will make interesting reading to all of those who had the Anti Malaria drug, it would appear you may be able to sue shortly




MoD Could Face Civil Cases Over Malaria Drug Use (http://news.sky.com/story/1701072/mod-could-face-civil-cases-over-malaria-drug-use)

[Load Toad]

I'm a civilian. I was prescribed Lariam when I first travelled in S.E Asia early '95. I can assure you it gives quite manic mood swings which I couldn't understand at first - I'd be driving to work in the morning and getting sudden urges to burst into tears or start laughing; sometimes within a minute or two. As soon as I mentioned it to the company Doc I was taken off it. Problem solved.

[BEagle]

Never heard of Lariam, we were always supposed to take Paludrin pills. But since you were supposed to start taking them a week before going out of area - and you rarely had that much warning - then keep taking them for a month after getting home, few people bothered.

A few large gin and tonics were a much more acceptable way of taking quinine - a bit of a bugger if you were in some 'dry' desert $hithole though...

As for Paludrin At normal dosage levels the side effect most commonly encountered is mild gastric intolerance, including diarrhoea and constipation. This usually subsides as treatment is continued.

So it isn't just the kebab, Keo or Kokinelli which causes the Akrotiri two-step! But they do have other side effects: http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/77559-kokkinelli-kebab-darkens-stool.html