RNP SAAAR approaches - who is/will be doing them?

[CK2]

Looks like this type of approach is the future, especially after the uplink capability to use Differential GPS is established, certified and trained to be used. I.E. we will have CAT III approaches with lower minima basically everywhere in the world where the airports will buy such equipment (probably a heck of a lot cheaper than ILS).

But at the moment I am just curious who is presently already doing these kind of approaches at all?

Rumors tell me that Northwest is either already certified or at least going for it.

And then I know that Emirates is in the training phase for all to be qualified as soon as they get the approval which they expect around later this year.

Anyone else?

I'll be looking forward to that step ahead in the future, just imagine the possibilities...

[None]

Many major airlines into UIO are doing these. It took a year of CQ training activities (after extensive coordination with the FAA) to get both US and Ecuador clearance for these procedures.

[c100driver]

Air NZ and Qantas have been flying RNP SAAAR approaches for two years.

Qantas have been using B737-800 and Air New Zealand the B737-300.

Air New Zealand is working with Airbus to get the A320 approved and are operating the bus on trial basis on SAAAR approaches.

[oz in dxb]

Cat III autolands will probably happen when the Galleleo satellite system comes in to operation. I understand it has a guarantee of reliability and accuracy compared to the GPS system which doesn't.
This will then reduce the RNP down to the required level for autolands.

The current cost for an ILS installation is over $1 million. Cost for a GBAS system which allows for unlimited "ILS" approaches in a 23nm radius is also #1 million!

Oz

[LLLK]

The RNP SAAAR Approaches are an FAA invention that have been rolled out in the US (70 approaches), Canada (24 airports), China (3 airports), NZ (1 airport?), Australia(15 airports), Ecuador (1 airport?) and Mexico (1 airport?), over the past 5 years. (Actually it all started in Juneau, Alaska, back in the nineties but it was called a 'special' then)

ICAO adopted the SAAAR idea and re-named it RNP AR APCH when it introduced the PBN Concept last year. Basically, RNP AR Approaches allow fixed radius turns all along the approach/missed approach, short finals (around 1 NM) and 0.1NM track-keeping accuracy.

Quite a few of the so-called RNP SAAAR approaches published today offer little more than the standard 0.3 NM RNP approach although some can be quite sporting (Lhasa, Quito and Queenstown for example)

The problem at the moment is getting approval - the carrier has to demonstrate that the procedure can be flown safely under a range of normal and non-normal conditions and that there are adequate contingency procedures to extract the aircraft in the event of equipment failure. This requires quite a lot of input from the manufacturer and for this reason, most SAAAR approaches are currently only flown by one or two carriers at each airport. (Certain versions of the B737NG and A-320 were the first to get approval - I think that versions of A-330, B757 and B767 are expected to be approved this year)

There are no datalink requirements for RNP AR APCH and I can't see performance getting better than 0.1Nm anytime soon - Galileo or no Galileo.

[OzExpat]

There is facility for RNP AR procedures to be limited to a SPECIFIC aircraft (nominated by registration letters/numbers) and a SPECIFIC flightcrew (nominated by name). It isn't just a matter of the aircraft type being approved.

[multycpl]

Can these approaches be authorized for the gns 430 ?

[galaxy flyer]

GNS 430--no way, at least at RNP 0.3 or less. At RNP 0.3, equipage requires on IRS sensor, minimum.

GF

[EK380]

We fly them at Emirates...

[aterpster]

galaxy flyer:

GNS 430--no way, at least at RNP 0.3 or less. At RNP 0.3, equipage requires on IRS sensor, minimum.

GNS 430 is a TSO C-145-146 sensor, which cannot really perform even to RNP 0.30 as expressed for RNP AR.

As to RNP AR an IRU (or IRUs) is not required for RNP 0.30 provided the missed approach does not require RNP of less than 1.0. But, the required intregity and alerting for "entry level" RNP 0.30 is well beyond the performance of a unit like the GNS 430. On the other hand, the GNS 430 can fly LPV, which is well beyond the performance of the most demanding RNP AR approach for the last 1 mile, or so, of the final approach segment.

[aterpster]

LLLK:

The RNP SAAAR Approaches are an FAA invention...

Actually, Alaska Airlines was the "inventor."