Another day, another loony Students Union

[muppetofthenorth]

The University of Manchester Student's Union is holding a general meeting next wednesday (30/04/08) and following the recent ban at UCL one of the proposed motions is to ban the military from all campus areas. If the motion is passed it will last for three years and this is the one chance to oppose it.

http://www.umsu.manchester.ac.uk/pdf/MOTION_A_30.4.08.pdf

There is a group on facebook already set up, hoping to get all those in the UAS, UOTC and URNU who are eligible to vote to the Union on wednesday.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12245047631



Also worth noting are the other motions proposed for the AGM, particularly #6&7:ugh:
http://www.umsu.manchester.ac.uk/representation/downloads.shtml

[LookingNorth]

Given motion 7's etymology of the word 'cunning' I did smile on reading the name of the proposer of motion 3...

[GengisKhant]

Words fail me....,

if these are the future captains of industry/commerce or even lawers.., doctors... or other professionals ..., then God help us all.... :ugh:

GK

[TheWizard]

I wonder if the SU at Lincoln Uni know where all the participants of Waddington airshow reside then?:hmm:

[Early Stacker]

Well I think they are all "Good Natured";)

[Maxibon]

Given that its Manchester University, perhaps we could go for Peterloo II.

I'm sure I can dig out my old sabre and borrow a nag from the stables down the road.

[Al R]

Aw, let the kids have their fun. God knows no one cares what they prattle on about and that they'll soon be under the real world cosh anyway.

[soddim]

The sooner these brats are busy paying back their student loans the better - then they might find that the real world does not owe them anything.

[D O Guerrero]

Genghis - don't worry, the future captains of industry are getting on with their studies rather than wasting their time worrying about the military on campuses and hanging around in student bars pontificating about Tibet and other subjects of which they know very little.
There are sane and hard-working students out there...

[OCDave]

"There are sane and hard-working students out there..."

Here, here. Let's not tar us all with the same brush!:8

[Feneris]

The motion is actually very funny and I would recommend reading it to the end. It's delusional rubbish, same sort of entertainment that we got from 'Comical Ali' (Iraqi Information Minister) during the Iraq invasion.

[mustflywillfly]

drug taking car thief's

Warning pedant mode on: "drug taking car thieves"


Ahhhhh that is much better. :ok:

[WillDAQ]

if these are the future captains of industry/commerce or even lawers.., doctors... or other professionals ..., then God help us all....

I wouldn't worry, the sort of people who have time for student union politics are not the sorts who'll be getting into such roles.

[Occasional Aviator]

Warning pedant mode on: "drug taking car thieves"

surely "drug-taking"....

[LBGR]

Point number three from the motion detail amused me some what:


In the event of any attack on Iran, to mobilise students to take whatever action is necessary to halt the
attack. Including occupations, demonstrations, teach-ins and direct action.


Good luck with that chaps.

[Archimedes]

Two small points - first, since both Afghanistan and Iraq (post invasion) are covered by UN Security Council Resolutions, do they intend to boycott the UN on the grounds that it has legitimized the occupations?

Second, they talk about banning 'the military of any country'. Does that mean that they will, contrary to the Human Rights Act, bar any serving personnel regular or TA (or other nations' equivalents) who happen to be undertaking education at the University from SU premises?

And for the OTC/UAS/UNRU types - how about an ammendment along the lines of:
11. In the event of the University of Manchester being affected by flood, other natural disaster, contagious disease or terrorist attack, the Students' Union will, in upholding its principles, refuse to accept any assistance from the armed services.

12.The same principles will be steadfastly upheld in the event of the SU premises catching fire during a firefighters' strike, in which event members will link arms in a human chain around the burning building and sing 'we shall overcome' while preventing firefighters from the armed forces from tackling the blaze.@

[Thelma Viaduct]

All politicians are obviously recruited from the thieves, liars, murderers, bureaucrats, alcoholics, sexually perverse, druggie and bulimic members of society.

I'm puzzled why people expect students or society in general to be sympathetic towards the armed forces under the present circumstances. I am sympathetic, but being ex forces I'm bound to be.

Why would you expect sympathy for fighting illegal and immoral wars based on lies and the need for oil & gas reserves ?

Society won't see the benefit of securing the oil & gas, 'govern'ment will, with their 70%+ duty. The North Sea was once rich with oil and Irish Sea the same with gas, where's the benefits from that for the past 20 years compared to the rest of Europe, let alone US & A?

At least the student layabouts are standing up for what they believe in, be it right or wrong. Lefties do my nut in, but so do fascist tories and their BS and Neu labour and their lies.

As someone on here once said, "Love Many, Trust Few, and always paddle your own canoe"

**** the country, coz it ***** you. Just look after yourself, your mate and your family. All this patriotism & allegiance to the queen is BS, they couldn't give a **** about you, which is the reality that you need to face. Appreciate those that do care a little better. Job Jobbed :ok:

[Strangelove PhD]

Well, with an SU in that frame of mind the Banrnes Wallis building & Cafe (part of Manchester Uni) should be due for a rename anytime now.
Any thoughts?

The Kabul Coffee House?

I'd put good money on a name change by the end of the year. I'm surprised it's actually lasted this long.

[Maple 01]

Why would you expect sympathy for fighting illegal and immoral wars

I must have missed that declaration, refresh my memory which court of law declared Afgahnistan or Iraq as illegal.

You mean you can't?

Go and join the rest of the ill-informed gobsheens in the SU (mass) debating chamber then :mad:

I was under the notion that operations in both were currently UN sanctioned.

[Thelma Viaduct]

I must have missed that declaration, refresh my memory which court of law declared Afgahnistan or Iraq as illegal

You're not too bright are you fella?

Stating lies for the reasons of going to war is illegal and immoral, whether a court says so or not. Just like burgling a house is illegal before you're caught.

The whole point is that the truth wasn't declared, and lies were.

If I want to join a SU debating club it'll be because I want to, not because some 'govern'ment apologist **** house tells me. :ok:

[Maple 01]

So in other words there has been no court action?

You're a busted flush old boy, don't confuse your opinions with points of law.

Run allong now, there's a good chap

Or better still, read UNSCR 678

If you want Sadam back in power I'm sorry it's too late, both he and the male side of his loathsome family are gone, me? I refuse to mourn the death of a murderous dictator responsible for 400,000+ deaths; you on the other-hand obviously are determined to defend his right to murder and torture - good luck

[Thelma Viaduct]

So in other words there has been no court action?

You're catching on, but this time read the reply and give it time to sink in. You'll see you're playing cards with a faulty deck, obviously a few are missing.

Don't confuse law with what's right, wrong and/or illegal.

If I want to "Run allong", it'll be because I want to, not because some 'govern'ment apologist **** house tells me. :ok:

[Thelma Viaduct]

Pious (adj) - characterized by a hypocritical concern with virtue or religious devotion; sanctimonious.

Name says it all really. Thanks for your input anyway.

Why are you hiding behind false praise ?

Not only has your post not added anything of relevance to the topic, it's also a sly personal attack.

Grow some nuts and say what you mean big man.

[Maple 01]

I'd look up the word 'illegal' boy, it means against the law, which has to be proved or disproved in a court of law, you with me so far?

Now as you're the one talking about illegality how can you independantly declare something illegal without going through the process of law? Are you the Pope?

No, you're just an apologist for Sadam - or doesn’t the death of 400,000+ Iraqis and Iranians concern you more than trying student style Trotskyite rabble-rousing?

Once again, other than in your mind where has current action in Afghanistan or Iraq been declared illegal? And if it is has been does that also mean the UN is stuffed full of Neo-Con war monkies?

Grow some nuts and say what you mean big man.

OK, you're a clueless sprog cock who likes dictators

[Roland Pulfrew]

Can I have a pint of what Pious is on? :rolleyes:

And before you accuse me, I am not a supporter of New Liarbour, but I think mileandahalf's post was clear enough to the rest of. No faint praise there!

some govern'ment apologist s**t house tells me

And you complain of a "personal attack"

[Thelma Viaduct]

aw, which has to be proved or disproved in a court of law

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661134.stm

Not that the UN is of much use.

You'll find that you're the one confused about what illegal actually means sunshine.

Law:

the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision.

Illegal:

forbidden by law or statute.


Read the above a few times and a light bulb may go off in your head. :ok:

[Maple 01]

I leave the floor to my learned friends, anyone that can get upset about the demise of Sadam and the end of Taliban rule is reserving himself a bedspace in a very special part of hell

[kippernipper]

Here here Maple 01 :D

I'm sorry to jump in Pious but as a law graduate I have to point out that your line of argument is incorrect, though you are doing a very good job of alienating yourself from the military pprune community!

"Don't confuse law with what's right, wrong and/or illegal" - an oxymoron old boy, law and illegal being inextricably linked.

Misinformed individuals all too often completely misconstrue the meaning of 'legal' and incidentally, 'rights', by quoting them in terms of some sort of subjective context...

[Thelma Viaduct]

anyone that can get upset about the demise of Sadam and the end of Taliban rule is reserving himself a bedspace in a very special part of hell

The only ones reserving bed space in a warm hostel are people like yourself.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html

[Flash2001]

Will someone sort out my confusion here. I thought that civilians, safe at home, started wars and soldiers fought them and sometimes died. If you're going to ban anyone from the hallowed halls maybe it should be new labour politicians.

After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

if these are the future captains of industry/commerce or even lawers.., doctors... or other professionals ..., then God help us all....

I wouldn't worry, the sort of people who have time for student union politics are not the sorts who'll be getting into such roles.

Nope. They're the ones who become the type of parasites who infest parliament so they can foist their insanity on others.

Problem is we then become the kind of thickos who vote them into those positions of influence...:(

[Thelma Viaduct]

There was nothing sly about it Pious, you're a prick.

I'm not sure what you've managed to achieve in this thread other than gaining yourself some attention - did mummy not give you enough? I am pleased that you're EX-forces. Does the bitterness and self-importance stem from something that upset you when you were in? If indeed you were.

No doubt, you'll have a smart arse reply; I don't see anyone agreeing with what you say though. Does that tell you anything?

Lots of questions.....let's hope the answer is worth reading.

That's better, get the anger out.

Your whole post is just amateur psychologist BS trying to cause an effect, again it adds nothing to the debate.

There is nothing to answer, you have no question.

[Maple 01]

And yet

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Puts the figure much lower, and even then they aren’t exactly an unbiased source

So not only are you confused over the concept of the law, you haven't grasped the notion of discredited propaganda

And if you have a look at my profile you'll see I'm an analyst - so don't try blinding me with dubious discredited stats

Did I mention you're a cock?

[Roland Pulfrew]

And I had to laugh at this bit in the WP report:

The technique, called "cluster sampling," is used to estimate mortality in famines and after natural disasters.

So not exactly a precise science then and completely open to manipulating in any direction you wish to go.

PP. Has anyone ever told you "not to believe everything you read in the papers"?

[Thelma Viaduct]

Here here Maple 01 :D

I'm sorry to jump in Pious...blah....blah....

Judge dredd,

Alienation from pprune is something that fills me with fear & trepidation, it being the barometer of what is true and just in the world.

More accusations but nothing to show for your pointless post that adds nothing to the thread.

Nice one :ok:

[brickhistory]

Oh, good!

I went to pop some corn and was afraid this one was going to sputter out...................

Hand me my beer, please! :p

[Thelma Viaduct]

And yet

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Puts the figure much lower, and even then they aren’t exactly an unbiased source

So not only are you confused over the concept of the law, you haven't grasped the notion of discredited propaganda

And if you have a look at my profile you'll see I'm an analyst - so don't try blinding me with dubious discredited stats

Did I mention you're a cock?


You make accusations and then do the very same thing yourself.

You're the one confused about what illegal actually means, go back and read the definition again.

It comes as no surprise you're an analyst, anal being a major constituent of your title.

Is that the best personal insult that you could come up with btw ? Big daft cock would have been much better.

[Thelma Viaduct]

PP. Has anyone ever told you "not to believe everything you read in the papers"?Irony of the highest order, funniest post so far though.

Well done :ok::ok::ok:

Seriously, I should be doing other things rather than replying to inter warrior knobbers. If I don't reply, it's because I've got 20 odd papers that I need to read for my imaginary occupation. Not that you bunch of tits need to know or anything.

Good night :cool:

[Training Risky]

Let me wade into this like Indiana Jones with a big cracking whip in one hand and a keyboard in the other....

I'm puzzled why people expect students or society in general to be sympathetic towards the armed forces under the present circumstances.

PP, I expect you are puzzled you utter window-licker! Haven't you figured it out yet? The majority of the civpop, aside from immature students who equate uniforms with baby-killing, have no particular beef with HM Forces, but detest Zanu-Labour for pi$$-poor planning, cr@p logistics, even worse procurement and overall being seen to be Bush's poodle. I mean, who wouldn't support a war to depose the Hitler of Iraq and the Nazis of Afghan? It's just the way it was done rankles a bit - and I know - it aint half hot out here Mum!

I am sympathetic, but being ex forces I'm bound to be.

Oh thanks, no really thanks for your sympathy. When I need the support of a whining left-wing apologista, I'll ask for it.

illegal and immoral wars based on lies and the need for oil & gas reserves ?


Not much Oil or Gas in Afghan eh? Very clever of you to try and argue with previous posters over points of logic, try that again whilst you breath through your mouth.

**** the country, coz it ***** you. Just look after yourself, your mate and your family.

Bitter AND selfish? I bet that attitude was really appreciated by everyone except your 'mate' while you were in the mob?

PS: Note to self - arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

[Archimedes]

Er...


Since PP referred to illegal 'wars' -

Intervention in Afghanistan - covered by various UN Security Council Resolutions, particularly Numbers 1368 and 1373 which stated that the Taliban's support for terrorism represented a clear threat to international peace and security; that the acts of 11 Sep 01 were covered by the inherent right to self defence, and which stated that such a threat should be combated by 'all means' (UN-speak for you may start breaking stuff if you feel it necessary). Afghanistan, whatever the Manchester University 'right on' mob (probably about 0.1% of the student body) think, meets all the criteria they claim were breached when OIF/Telic kicked off.

Therefore, using the generally accepted measure of legality - Afghanistan has been legal from the start, whatever the Manchester Student Union says about it.

The invasion of Iraq, of course, is open to question (to put it mildly).

However, the occupation of the country was retrospectively recognised by UNSCR 1483, which called upon the 'Authority' (determined in the Resolution to be the US and UK as the occupying powers who had formally recognised their responsibilities as such under the Geneva Convention) to undertake the rebuilding of Iraq and appointed a Special Representative.

Therefore, while the students might, in the eyes of some, have been on solid ground to call the combat operations between Day 1 of OIF/TELIC and 22 May 2003 an 'illegal war', they cannot call the occupation of Iraq an 'illegal war' or an 'illegal occupation', since it, like the intervention in Afghanistan, is covered by a procedurally correct vote in the UNSC.

However, I'm sure they won't let facts get in the way of their attempt to carve out a political niche for themselves.:hmm:

[PPRuNe Pop]

Calm down guys. Some of your slips are showing!

Resorting to swearing, abuse and slagging shows some weakness. Just keep good honest debate going without it. Then we mods have no need to make a post. Ta!

PPP

[High_lander]

PPRuNe Pop-


but it was getting so good!

[kippernipper]

pp, you're spot on again - all my post did was just reaffirm your lack of legal comprehension and general misguided, misinformed view of the world...

jeez, if you're like this over the internet I can't even imagine how much abuse you must have been on the receiving end of from your 'mates' whilst serving!

[Maple 01]

Having just flicked back through a few of PPs posts I'd just like to apologise to fellow PPRuNers for assuming PP wasn't another window licker but now I understand the general tenant of his posts I will merely add
DON’T FEED THE TROLL

[kippernipper]

PP - you were never in the mob...c'mon admit it - you're a member of the Manchester University Socialist Worker Party aren't you?!

[kippernipper]

...or is it the Cardiff University Nationalist Trust Society ?? ;)

[exscribbler]

Don't the students want to do anything about Zimbabwe? Why's that, I wonder. Bunch of t*ssers who wouldn't recognise an injustice if they trod in it.

Sorry; got carried away - which is better than being carried out.

[Thelma Viaduct]

Don't the students want to do anything about Zimbabwe? Why's that, I wonder. Bunch of t*ssers who wouldn't recognise an injustice if they trod in it.

Sorry; got carried away - which is better than being carried out.


Exactly my point for those too stupid to see it.

Getting rid of the despots is a beneficial side show that takes the heat from the real aim. Do you honestly think that our 'govern'ment gives a **** about the people of afghanistan and iraq when they so obviously don't give a **** about the people of the UK, including service personnel ???

Getting rid of taliban = good thing, yet they'd not attacked the UK

Getting rid of saddam = good thing, yet he'd had 10 years of sanctions and his military capability had increased by magic in that time, as well as commit war crimes with weapons that we'd sold him in the first place.


Anybody wonder why mugabe wasn't fixed years ago ???

Iraq has plenty of oil during a time when stocks are depleting, who's now running the show and getting cheap oil???

Afghanistan is the preferred route for transferring gas from former soviet republics with a new 850km pipeline, incidentally the US is the major player in this. Also the caspian sea has untapped reserves of oil, 2nd in amount to the middle east.

If zimbabwe had any oil, you can bet that mugabe would have been sorted out years ago.

And for all that they had to lie to justify the real aim, therefore it's illegal. the reasons for war were a fabrication and the country, parliament and Queen herself were sold a lie.


Q. Who made the final decision to go to war based on lies ?

A. The Queen

Q. Is the Queen going to summons herself for war crimes ?

A. Is she **** as like you stupid *****.

By all means live with yer heads up your/each others arses, just don't whine when you finally smell the **** you stupid collection of etc etc etc.

[muppetofthenorth]

who's now running the show and getting cheap oil???

Well, the US is running the show, but noone's getting cheap oil out of it... Prices per barrel of crude keep going up and up.

http://octane.nmt.edu/gotech/Marketplace/Prices.aspx

Up $18 in 30 days. It's not cheap.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Absolutely priceless but I wonder if PP will ever reveal to us who in the forces abused him/her to the extent that we now have this out pouring of scorn on all things military....................rather sad to see really :(

[Maple 01]

Keep licking those windows

[Archimedes]

'Who's running the show and getting cheap oil?'

The Chinese?

Have you seen the price of a barrel of oil now compared to 2002?

And for all that they had to lie to justify the real aim, therefore it's illegal. the reasons for war were a fabrication and the country, parliament and Queen herself were sold a lie.


Q. Who made the final decision to go to war based on lies ?

A. The Queen

Q. Is the Queen going to summons herself for war crimes ?

A. Is she **** as like you stupid *****.

No, not illegal for Afghanistan as pointed out in my earlier post. Lying about the real aim is not necessarily illegal either

Also, you might want to get a slightly firmer grasp on the way the British political and legal system operate - for starters, the Queen can't be placed on trial for war crimes, since it'd be Regina versus Regina, which is a constitutional impossibility (and before you say it, while we don't have a written constitution, there is one there, based on custom, precedent and statute).

Second, the Royal Prerogative is exercised by the government on HMQ's behalf, which means that it'd be members of that body, most likely the PM, who would be placed on trial should that eventuality arise. Also, HMQ did not formally declare war (that's done with the Lord Chamberlain reading out a proclamation on the Sovereign's behalf, as per September 1939).

[Thelma Viaduct]

If you think a point made is a question, then it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

Answer the real questions if you want the real answers, don't give me your anal irrelevant bollocks.

Time will tell, if you're that ******* stupid you can't see it already.

Give it 18 months and the Brits will be out of Iraq with a massive bill, hundreds of dead and nothing to show for it again. The spams will take the lot and **** us off.

The same with afghan, but that'll take much longer, if it ever gets sorted.

Hundreds of dead soldiers for energy reserves, it's got nothing to do with iraqs/afghanistans citizens.

All this bollocks propaganda about me being anti-military when the opposite is the truth. I want my mates home because I don't want to see them become victims to the lies of the neo cons and bliar like so many others. So yeah, I'm really anti military you bunch of ******* class 1 dickheads. They can't even supply them with the correct, adequate and safe equipment to carry out their wars based on lies.
I **** the lot of you, crack on with you slander based on BS, it's not like I'd expect anything less from a bunch of internet commandos.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

After the last tirade I am now coming round to the thought that maybe CDT is a good thing as I suspect that is why PP is now EX forces..........:rolleyes:

[Thelma Viaduct]

After the last tirade I am now coming round to the thought that maybe CDT is a good thing as I suspect that is why PP is now EX forces..........:rolleyes:That's not even got a basic level of wit, has it?

Why would CDT have been a bad thing before the 'tirade'???

You obviously like the taste of other peoples sweetcorn whilst being smacked up to the eyeballs avoiding the big bad CDT team.

You'll be throwing in the acronym pax next, you sad ****er.

Munch munch :yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Trojan1981]

Hundreds of dead soldiers for energy reserves, it's got nothing to do with iraqs/afghanistans citizens.

I agree. In Australia we haven't had the hundreds of Soldiers dead, but all of the deaths so far have achieved nothing. I have previously deployed O/S as a Soldier with the Aust Army and I have seen to many former diggers become alcoholics, drug addicts or just have complete mental breakdowns due to their experiences. Many have also comitted suicide or just dropped off the map. All for nothing.

No one can use the 'defending your freedom' argument with any cred. The last terrorist attack in the UK was from within your own borders.

I am not anti military, but I am against pointless wars.

[Two's in]

but I am against pointless wars.

Trojan, I strongly suspect they all fall into this category but you don't actually get to check the "no pointless wars" box while you are still serving.

As for the rest of you, I can reveal that PP is in fact really ACM Sir Glenn Torpy, idling away his day baiting ppruners while trying to edit his JPA user's profile so he can book some leave...

[Trojan1981]

you don't actually get to check the "no pointless wars" box while you are still serving.
I know that. I did have the luxury of being asked weather or not I wanted to deploy. The conflicts in the middle east have been going for five years + now. Most new soldiers still see it as an adventure, the Govt keeps the truth about the price of active service very quiet.

The universities seem to be trying to save people from being 'duped' into service. Like I said, I am not anti military.

[Two's in]

Quite agree, like it or not today's "yoof" are tomorrows leaders, if I met a 22 year old College student who agreed with my views on the world I'd be really worried...

[Flying Lawyer]

Students Unions have been spending hours debating resolutions about world affairs - and sending very 'serious' condemnatory resolutions to world leaders - for as long as I can remember.
Radical thinking is a feature of being a student, and it's no coincidence that the most radical and politically active students unions are usually in the good universities which tend to attract the brightest students who've demonstrated a capacity for free thinking rather than simply an ability to pass examinations.
Then, after the luxury of being free of responsibilities (other than graduating before leaving), comes the real world of careers, family commitments, mortgages etc.
Many of the most rebellious of my contemporaries who were going to change the world soon became pillars of the Establishment, and several of the most committed and self-proclaimed socialists, Trots and anti-capitalists went on to very successful (and very lucrative) careers in the City.

As for the anti military aspects of the student resolutions, after more than 30 years, I'm still proud to have been a member of the London UAS when I was a student and retain a strong loyalty to the RAF.
I think it's a great pity that cuts in defence expenditure mean that students no longer have the same opportunities as I was given. Even those of us who didn't go on to military careers were able to take with us into our various fields some knowledge of the services which enabled us to counter some of the ill-informed comments which inevitably arise in discussions about defence/military issues.



kippernipper
With all due respect to your law degree, the summary of the legal aspects by Archimedes at post #46 is more balanced and, FWIW, I think is accurate.
I say FWIW because, although I've followed with interest the conflicting legal arguments before and since the invasion, I have no expertise in international law. However, distinguished lawyers in that field have always been divided about the legality of invading Iraq.

Maple 01
Are you just allowing PP to wind you up or do you really believe that anyone who disagrees with the decision to invade Iraq, or considers it to have been illegal, is a Sadam apologist? :confused:

[Maple 01]

No, I'm just offering him a chance to say if he thinks Iraq was a wonderful land of milk and honey with Sadam in charge - he chooses to condemn the 'Imperialist' west for everything but doesn't seem to mind genocide as long as it's committed by a local boy. If he isn't an admirer of SH Esq how was he planning on toppling the bastard? A stiff letter to Mr Echo of Echo and the Bunnymen? A sit-in in the Nelson Mandela student union facility?

BTW as I’ve said here a few times I’d have kept going in 1991 myself

And the poor innocent repressed Taliban – well, I used to do the IRT briefings that everyone sleep through, apart from slaughtering prisoners, crushing critics and repressing women to the point that they returned to the status of chattels I’m sure they were just the sort a young stude could identify with, especially their interesting plans to take the country back to the 14th century.

And it seems her Maj is in on it too – it’s all about oil/crushing the Muslims etc
Except no oil in Kosovo, and we were defending the Muslims IIRC, still bring on the diatribe about the military-industrial complex

And then I realised he's a cock, and went to bed


The Student Grants of this world – can’t live with them, can’t drive a tank over them – even if it runs on biodiesel

[Wensleydale]

A snippet to throw into the debate....

The armed forces are just a tool of Government (diplomacy by other means etc). Therefore to ban just the tool is pointless. The motion needs ammending to ban the user of the tool - the ruling Labour Party from the campus. After all, it was they who sent the troops in in the first place!!

Now a ban on the labour party at Uni would be fun.....:ok:

[TMJ]

Ice cream? When the f@*k did we get ice cream????

:}

Whenever we were based somewhere the Yanks were running the catering?

[Winch-control]

Is it not the right of the student union to propose a vote against the military having any involvement on the campus?

Err is it not the right of the military to have involvement on the campus?

Not sure who wins this one in the politically correct environment. Maybe its the responsibility of those that voted in the union, or maybe all should be equal and then why would a vote be needed?

Illegal wars? does it really matter, you can't change the past whether they are or not. You make your bed and lie in it, thats the government that is elected.

You can move forward though and elect a government that will withdraw the troops...Just like Rudd in Canberra. Seems he has made a promise during the election process and is going to stick to it. Only time will tell, but a 3 month time scale is pretty brief!

[OCDave]

I'd like to think that anyone who is at university would have more sense than to get 'fooled' into joining the military and becoming a 'tool of oppression' because of this. If they want to join the UAS/OTC/whatever then it is their right to do so and it would surely be a consious decision made by them. But then again I am an optimist!

[Winch-control]

And there you have it.....all that 4 pages of bickering...I for one was never fooled into anything, I certainly was never used as a tool of oppression.
This bunch of studes will progress and move on through life...its no different to any young group looking to progress...

[Manxman11]

I was a student at Manchester University years ago and this crap was going around then. The bean munching, wooly jumper wearing pacifist twats would occasionally picket outside the OTC building, or hold peace rallies and decry the armed forces.

The point is that the Student Union is a complete irrelevance to most people. The only connection anyone I knew at Uni had to the Union was to drink in the Serpent bar as it was then because it was cheap. Most students will crack on with their own lives and make choices based on balanced information, not the one sided drivel spouted by the Student Union.

If they ban the military from campus the next step will be to the ban the investment banks (now there's an evil empire!!) from the milkrounds as they represent all that is bad about capitalism.

[exscribbler]

Absolutely, Manxman! It was the same in Sheffield in the early 60s and the Trots were the ones who jumped on the first train to ICI as soon as they graduated. My, did we laugh at them.:E

Life's very different when you have to get up for work of a morning.:ok:

[ORAC]

http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/historystuff/antirecruit%20web.jpg

[kippernipper]

Agreed mileandahalf, as fun as it is seeing Mr. Angry spool up, lets put this one to bed!

...someone start a caption competition or something lol!:p

[harrogate]

The problem is that the deluded lentil knitting minority that propose this kind of sh*t are pretty much the only ones that vote at all, meaning they'll get their way.

It's a futile vote though, and should never have been accepted as a serious proposal. They can't ban the military. I thought this strain of socially astute student was meant to be clever?

F*ckwits.

Out of curiosity, which existing military unit/regiment is local to the area? In the interests of balance and equality, I think that a student should put forward a proposal to stage a homecoming parade on the university campus for said unit.

Anything that vaguely resembles a party should get a positive turnout at a student ballot box.

If they refuse to table such a motion, then they'll merely show themselves up for the autocratic and hypocritical c*ntwits that they probably are.

[exscribbler]

Thank God the lentil knitters remain the minority, despite their delusion that what they have to say is of the slightest importance outside their meeting room. Just read their minutes to see what a crowd of self-serving t*ssers they really are.

If there were a homecoming parade for any of the local TA units more ordinary people would turn out to cheer them than there are activists in the University Union.

207 (Manchester) Field Hospital (Volunteers)
93 Signal Squadron Detachment 38 Signal Regiment
D Company 4 The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment
42 Signal Squadron 33 Signal Regiment
236 Squadron 156 Transport Regiment
209 Battery 103 Regiment Royal Artillery
Detachment 116 Provost Company (Volunteers) 4 Royal Military Police
202 Field Squadron 75 Engineer Regiment
Platoon Troop 125 Field Support Squadron 75 Engineer Regiment
75 Engineer Regiment Workshops

[High_lander]

I have many student friends, 19-23, many of them share the views that are present in this forum (and not PP or the Manchester Uni).

Its just those views aren't picked up on, and its people who have these sorts of views that are the ones working, and not playing Government to get the word C*** back in common usage.