Engine Out Departure Procedures

[prafn]

Any one out there use special DP's (departure Procedures) to allow a heavier take off weight and if so do you have any special aircrew procedures/checklists in place to brief/analyze the intended instrument departure.

Thanks to all

[roljoe]

Hi,

your question is not that clear !!!

Are you talking about a situation during which you loose an engine and do not anymore meet the climb requirements stated in the departure proc's.???

If this is your point, yes we do prepare an alternative routing in that case, based on the analyse of all available infos around the airport, dep chart, msa, visual chart..etc..In particular cases, we ask specific company to build a procedure for us, but this is extremely expensive...anyway safety has no price..

rgds

[411A]

Any one out there use special DP's (departure Procedures) to allow a heavier take off weight and if so do you have any special aircrew procedures/checklists in place to brief/analyze the intended instrument departure.



The runway analysis charts we use also depict the emergency turn (alternate procedure) if it is required due to engine failure on takeoff, and are reviewed, along with the all-engines departure procedure (SID) prior to engine start....provided of course, that the runway in use has not changed in the meantime.
If it has, the new data is reviewed.

Pretty standard stuff in everyday flying, with most operators.

However, a few airlines apparently have the need to complete overly long briefings:ugh::ugh:, as though each flight is an Apollo moon landing...which, quite frankly, at our end are simply not necessary.

[singleseater]

I think what you are asking is there anyone who at low weights has no EOP and at high wts uses one.
I would hope not, the performance engineers are surposed to use worst case when they develop these and that means MTOW

[ppppilot]

Every commercial operator must have one EOP for each of the rwy commonly used. They are the rwy analysis charts. Those EOPs provides a safe horizontal path with the minimum climb gradient required at MTOW. If there is not a horizontal path allowing MTOW, or actual ambient conditions do not permit so, then the company procedure will provide you the PTOW for that rwy and specific conditions. PTOW is the maximum TOW allowed by performance limiting factors, such as rwy length, OAT or obstacles on the flight path.
That EOP will protect you up to a point where the SID deviates from the EOP path. Up to that point you should use that company charts to find the max TOW and there is no better way to know the weight or the EOP.
Beyond the EOP/SID deviation point, up to MSA, no one will tell you a word apart from “do not hit a mountain harder than your plane”; therefore you must use your airplane performance charts and the cartography, to maintain your teeth just in place.
As there are no companies SOP or legal regulations, further than to comply with the SID, before the TO, normally you comment with your colleague any possible escape path just in case.
All of the above procedures consider IMC and common rwys.
If you are talking about airports not considered on the rwy analysis charts:
If VMC then I would use the performance charts on the FCOM to check the MTOW limited by rwy length (EO<V1 is included) and SID climb gradient. The EOP should be as easy as a visual circuit.
If IMC and your EO climb gradient does not comply with the SID up to MSA, then do not TO and check with OPS.
Tailwinds

[prafn]

Thanks to all for your input. We are currently using ARINC for flight planning with a link to APG (aircraft performance group) that provides us with DP's for each runway (rwy analysis). Most of these DP's closely follow the published SID's but allow a greater MTOW. The issue for us is how do we ensure that we are breifing the procedure correctly- at what point do we abandon the special DP and revert to the published SID, how do we set up the FMS's to fly the DP, if we increase our T/O weight will we still be able to not hit the mountain beyond the V1 speed- I guess I was wondering if any of you guys have some sort of formal procedure that addresses these issues- beyond a 3 hour departure brief.

Thanks