B1900 landing on the road at Windhoek

[vaninnam]

B1900 enroute to Eros diverted to Hosea kutako .After circling for 45 minutes.Had reported engine/fuel problem.17 pax safe.Elize van Niekerk the pilot.Good job.Aircraft belongs to Bay air,Cliffie Strydom.
Photos on Republikein website enjoy

[fly1981]

Mmmmmmm, Ouch!!!!!!!:ouch:

[Knormoer]

Well done Elize! You were always level headed and I know those pax were in excellent hands! :ok:

[Voel]

Is it Elize Meyer now married to van Niekerk? Did a good job. Believe she took over command from Gawie when things got rough. Well done girl.

[Knormoer]

Yip, thats the Elize! Whatever happened, I know she did the right thing. :D [must be really cool to land a 1900 on a road / stressfull but what a story to tell!]

[Toppled AH]

If they diverted why were they circling for 45 minutes?

[gerrie123]

Ah, those fuel gauges in a 1900. Not very reliable...at times
Well done to the crew though!

[Voel]

Elize was number 7 for the approach. All flights to Eros diverted to Int'l trying to get underneath the clouds. She still had 30 minutes fuel left when she landed on the road. Its suspect that something wrong with the fuel flow.

[The777dream]

A little birdie told me that they ran out of fuel.......!!!! :eek: thats what the birdie said !!!

The 1900 with 17 pax and by the sound of it min fuel should still fly on 1 engine if 1 did fail no problem......!!!! hmmm the plot thickens !!!

but well done to the pilots in the end for getting it down safe and every one okay :D

[The Jester]

A birdie ( maybe a vulture ) told me that there might have been procedure mismanagement in the cockpit .

It might not be such an innocent tale at all , with heroes etc being praised .

Nam DCA is entering tough times . LM and his mates are not qualified to get the issues sorted out .

Might be good idea to get a Consulting Firm in to do the job .

Controllers that are underqualified ( 210 crash at Eros )
Air Baboonia that might get blacklisted from Eurocontroll
1900 crew that do not follow SOP's
Alcoholic expat pilot getting job at Air Baboonia ( 737 FO )
No DE in country to do local tests .
Sub standard crew at Air Baboonia due to Afirmative Action employment
Air Baboonia A340 captain not being able to pass a sim check , but Nam Government refuses to sack him , because his skin colour is lekka !

A fool's paradise !

[Knormoer]

Jester, the involved 1900 belongs to a private company in Nam called Bay Air so its got nothing to with the national carrier whatsoever! The PIC of this specific incident did work for Air Nam a couple of years back but quit because it was such a circus. And she has been approached several times after that to come and work for them again and she declined! Procedure mismanagement in the cockpit? What?!!! :confused:

[twinvan]

No no, this pilot never worked for Air namibia! She was employed and went through induction course but quit before day one of duty. Was there a fuel flow problem due to mechanical faults or was the fuel flow problem due to very little fuel left to flow? If you are such a great pilot then you should know that when eros weather gets bad everyone will divert to hkia and with procedural approaches there it will take time to get aircraft on the ground. Surely she must have had a good idea of the weather to be expected in windhoek that day and then why not tanker a bit extra fuel?

But we dont know all the facts now do we.

P.s the b1900´s i flew had quite accurate fuel gauges throughout the 2500+ hours i enjoyed in them.

[WhinerLiner]

Took off from Walvis with 600lbs a side and without obtaining a weather report. Tanks were completely dry when aircraft was inspected after the incident. The list of regulations that were ignored is long.

The 15 in the back have no idea how lucky they are to be alive. The only hero here is the guy that managed to stop his car before running into the on coming aircraft. Huge kak on the way for all concerned.

[flylowboy]

Looks like Namibian CAA, Bay Air and Crew are involved in some cover up as the B1900 owned by Cemair but crewed by Bay Air ran out of fuel on a 40 minute flight from Walvis Bay to Windhoek. Reported that Captain's husband is Chief Pilot. Deceit, lies and smelly !! Crew flying again after sham enquiry ???
Who can update us on what is happening?

[flylowboy]

They ran out of fuel. Why did the crew immediately have 200 litres aside filled into the tanks straight after the landing ??

Cover without doubt. All implicated.

[flylowboy]

The B1900 is owned by Cemair at Lanseria and was on a AI lease to Bay Air. The crew had insufficient fuel for the flight. Low fuel lights illuminated 20 odd minutes into the flight and they did not declare an emergency !!!!!
Captain's hubby is Chief Pilot. Lots of lies and deceit. No hero stuff at all. Just very poor airmanship and shouldn't be in Command.
Should be fired for lying.

[flylowboy]

Elize screwed up boytjie !! She ran out of fuel !! Took off and 20 minutes into the flight the low fuel annunciater woke them up !! They took off with 1200 lbs !! Hey, isn't it obvious. She should do the honourable and own up to the lie. At least we'd have respect for her then.

[Beta Light]

This is about the time they fall pregnant and disappear for a couple of years, only to pop up again after a few years of playing Mommy. Seen that before

[Voel]

Flyboy, there is no cover up. DCAs's calculation determined that they had 500 lbs of fuel less than required. Crew's calculations gone badly wrong. Lets learn from that and not backstab each other.

[flylowboy]

Thanks Voel, you right about back stabbing. Not meant to backstab. I just don't like flying in airspace where other crew are not ruthlessly honest.
Can't tell you the source, but can confirm a very serious attempt was made at covering up. The whole thing started changing when the SA CAA got involved...SA registered aircraft and SA Licenced crew. There is much more to the plot than is visible. Ever flown in IF into destinations where other crew lie about their position ? Especially Russians, but not restricted to Russians. There is no place in the skies for crew whom are deceitful and not brutally honest. Frank openess and honesty in flying is what I support.
There is a history of psychological denial linked to crashes. Crew had low fuel lights 20 to 25 minutes into the flight, but continued and didn't declare an emergency. Guess your life wasn't threatned..however all the pax were !! they wouldn't have held for 15 minutes if they had declared an emergency early in the arrival. It is idiots like them that give the rest of us a bad name. We all make mistakes, we have all bust altitude etc....the difference is being brutally honest about it and not having the psychology of denial. Who are we bull****ting..only ourselves.
You view would be different if they had lied/denied about being at the a different level or position, yet were at the same level or position in a conflicting direction to you and a very near miss occurred or you guys collided.
Sorry Voel, I rate honesty above sticking together/backstabbing

[reptile]

flylowboy....Why don't you tell us how you really feel about this - be honest :E

[WhinerLiner]

Elize van Niekerk and Gawie Visser were very keen to lie and point fingers. It was everybody elses fault until they painted themselves into a corner with their own pathetic story. Now suddenly everyone else mustn't sling mud?

The Nam DCA certainly is keen on getting to the bottom of this one. With these things the wheel turns slowly but in the end it will be actioned. It has to be, you can't go around running 8 ton turboprops out of fuel and then pretend it was no big deal.

Their poor knowledge of the regulations meant they didn't know how much fuel they actually needed. They have no idea about planning minima for destination and alternates. Never even heard of a requirement for a second alternate. Clueless as to the functioning of the fuel gauging and low fuel light system.

Bay Air will be lucky to get out of this one with an AOC.

[Gooneybird]

You view would be different if they had lied/denied about being at the a different level or position, yet were at the same level or position in a conflicting direction to you and a very near miss occurred or you guys collided.

Have to agree here. It's happened to me recently with conflicting traffic. Like you say, we all make mistakes and bust a rule or two but early honesty however ego denting can save lives.

[diegrootwitbeen]

HIRE A 1900 CAPTAIN WHILE THEY STILL KNOW EVERYTHING.... i like that very much, pseudo profesionals dispensing advice on pprune but cant read so good on what powersetting the aircraft should be flown, how we BAD BAD dictators in management should run our company's, and pay them professional salaries, can you possibly show your UNIVERSITY DEGREE? like the beencounter screwing you out of your hard earned peanuts....or are you too busy paying for my benz and house in harties?:yuk:

? how does R 18'000'000.00 yes kids 18 MILLION RAND aeroplane (that is what a 1900 costs,R200'000.00 per month) end up on a public road with 15 pax not sueing for attempted murder? the crew blaming aircraft systems not working, but poor aircraft took 5 litres more to fill than manufacturer claims max usable....the low fuel lights do infact work,put fuel, start engines, fly plane off road, FAAAAA:mad:k,who would have thought that possible with both engines being "troublesome"?????? :confused:

the NAV equipment blamed for the go-around certified in perfect working order on Windhoek frequencies......running out of excuses here....

The crew REFUSED to make SEPERATE statements, still no report / affidavid on what really happened...owner getting pissed....insurance company insisting heads roll for this one...

[I.R.PIRATE]

Never been one to patronise then witbeen?

As much as I think they screwed the pooch big time here, your attitude is worse.

Thank god I dont work for you - anymore....:E

Quick one : what if you have a university degree? Does that make you a better pilot? Besides who says you need one to fly? Never seen it in the POH before. Then again according to you, thats prob because I have never read it, having been a lowly 1900 Capt and all.

That said, being in "management"", you probably havent read a POH (pilot's operating handbook) either.:D:D

[birdlady]

Ohhh you guys do crack me up. :E:E:E

Very silly to run out of fuel if in fact this is true. What happened to a proper preflight. And people wonder why we have so many accidents :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[TownshipDog]

Isn't it funny that there seems to be a cover up and Miles van der Molen is involved here as he is the man at Cemair running the show...coincidence??

witbeen: These guys stuffed up big style, but one shouldn't shout the odds unless your own house is clean. With regards to the POH, didn't you crack up a D228 in the DRC a while back while executing a 'check hierdie move' short field landing on a 1000m strip? Apprently you were showing the new guys how the ' groot wit baas' does things. Bet that wasn't in the POH...

[FatFlaps]

Township Dog

I refer to the posts stating "The B1900 is owned by Cemair at Lanseria and was on a AI lease to Bay Air" and "Bay Air will be lucky to get out of this one with an AOC". Maybe if you had the ability to read the entire thread, from start to finish, you would realise that you are barking up the wrong tree.

Cemair and Miles have nothing to do with the cover up, their only involvement is the fact that they own the aircraft which it has subsequently been established was in perfect working order. Crew, who are employed by BayAir are the ones covering up.

[TownshipDog]

Fatflaps: maybe if you had the ability to understand the irony and possible coincidence you would see where i'm coming from. I don't deny that the crew stuffed up and are covering up their mistakes but I do find it funny that this man is somehow involved in the greater scheme of the operation of the aircraft. It would also be in hs favour if CAA didnt look his way however small hs involvement in the a/c is. Afterall he doesn't have the cleanest record in history. Not so long ago a caravan that he was operating had a simlar low fuel event. I'm not creating conspiricy theories here but it is funny...

[FatFlaps]

Township Dog - before this degenerates into a mudslinging contest, firstly I know exactly where it is you are coming from - ironically enough.

However I can't say I find anything about this incident amusing or even partially funny. It was reckless and life endangering and there is nothing remotely funny about that. To add to that, the fact that there is now deceit and lies speaks volumes about the crew's ethics and moral principles.

The fact remains, the crew took off with 1200 lbs, with no weather check and they failed to call in an emergency and then they lied about it - disgusting and disgraceful.

[TownshipDog]

Flaps: agreed, sorry i may have been misleading by using the word 'funny'..i meant weird/strange.

Hopefully the Nam CAA will get to the bottom of this and those accountable will be brought to book

[WhinerLiner]

Clear enough why you chose the name "Township Dog"

[diegrootwitbeen]

Sorry to dissapoint T.D., the guy who actually cracked said 228 is today a well respected Saab 340 Captain in west africa, Gabon if i'm not mistaken, so my house is still order, but you are again off the topic, slinging mud, the question remains how did the 1900 end up on a public road???????????

[TownshipDog]

I beg to differ, the SAAB guy was under instruction from you and you were showing him 'how it's done' That I believe is why Dirk and co asked you to leave A.A.S and you started at Miles/Cemair.
Thats from the horses mouth of both SAAB man and the other FO including James the engineer who were there. Not slinging mud, simply highlighting the age old glass houses and stones fabel in regards to your earlier (mudslinging?) comments about the POH...

Enough said though...this is about them covering up the low fuel state they were in. Aplogies to all for digressing.

[WhinerLiner]

Hell no, it was just getting interesting. Doesn't it just suck when facts get in the way of good ol' pprune slander? I happen to know James well and would be delighted to hear his views on your little fantasy.

I wanna see da township dog gettin' a beatin'.

[FatFlaps]

Well now this is getting intriguing....Township Dawg - you seem to know an awful lot about a whole lot of things - albeit not an accurate lot.

I'm sensing though a little bit of a disgruntlement and some deep seated issues coming through from your side. About those people in glass houses throwing stones, two things to remember, firstly when you start make sure you yourself are out of the glass house and second, check that you are aiming at the correct person - you may end up throwing like a girl

[TownshipDog]

Whiner i assure you when you talk to James and ask him about the torque links and other structural repairs he made he'll verify the facts. Ask him about the panels replaced on the right side and the quick spray job done.
Just to make sure we're talking about the same James, it's the guy from Malawi.
I don't know why you think this is not accurate as apart from James the guys who were there were the t-bone/witbeen R vd M and M du P aka SAAB man. Now guess how I know that, maybe just maybe I'm one of them and was there when the stall warning went off and we hit the ground with enough force to break the torque links and ripple the skin.
Maybe I was there when the parts borrowed from P.A's D228 spares were brought up and put on by our friend James. Maybe thats how I knw all of this. But then again maybe not ...:}

[WhinerLiner]

The damage is not in dispute, the question is whether 'been' was giving "instruction", who was in control and whether someone was asked to leave as a result.

[TownshipDog]

Like I said, check the facts with James, or Saab man or R vd M, or perhaps they're there in front of you on the pprune thread written by someone in the cockpit.

This is way off topic now, pm me if you would like to debate this further but those are facts. All I was initially trying to do was highlight the point of people affiliated/used to be affiliated-(not sure what the "witbeen" is up 2 now) to Cemair shouting about POH's when they're not exactly 'mr procedure' and more of a 'ou maat in Wes Afrika ons het so gemaak, nou moenie worrie...watch net...' then promptly bust a good aerie through this attitude. Just like the guy and gal in the 1900 almost did. Thats all.

Dog

[Goffel]

Township Puppy.
..
You sure know how to start an avalanche of sh1t....but do you know how to stop it.
..
The Caravan that you claim that ran out of fuel, in fact never happened.
The low fuel light came on in the turn.

The clever pilots over-flew their 1st fuel stop and pushed on to another airfield...(now whose fault is that....the companies...I think not...PILOT ERROR).

They landed with 50 mins in the tanks....now in my books, (and the books I borrowed), that is not running out of fuel.

Now if in fact it was the companies fault, why were the pilot's licences suspended whilst they had to write airlaw and do a flight test.

Why did the same pilots screw up on a couple of other things....Oh I forgot....blame the company...

Nay china, on this you had a clear cut call...PILOT ERROR...these van pilots created a thing called a cluster duck..(and they admit it)...had nothing to do with the company that they screwed up.

Now if you disagree on the above and know something I dont know, please tell.

CEM Air's aircraft are in great condition...and that is fact.

Goffel.:ugh:

[TownshipDog]

Goffel: if you read my posts not once do I say that Cemairs a/c are dodgey. BUT, I do say that Miles, the man running things there is dodgey (I think his record speaks for itself) and before the avalanche started was just trying to show how I find it a strange coincidence that there's a coverup going on (albiet a bay-air/pilot one) and he is somehow connected to the plane in the bigger scheme of things. As with the Van once again he was the operator and had the a/c on the AOC of mr P.A. That is all. Once again it is just interesting.

Puppy

[I.R.PIRATE]

Guess if you are blanket, then sh1t sticks...:E:{

[WhinerLiner]

Take a turn and see how they operate there. You really have no clue what you are talking about, but thats fairly clear everytime you open your snout.

Since you are such a stickler for quality, its intersting that you were happy driving around in PA unmaintained scrap. Probably because you are a space shuttle pilot that knew best. :yuk:

[flylowboy]

Guys, as an outsider : Cemair aircraft are brilliant. Snags are attended to promptly, paperwork is spot on. They are really pretty good now and a lot better than some big names at Lanseria.

The crew messed up, its got nothing to do with maintenance, it got to do with crew not knowing the aircraft, crew whom are in denial to reality, crew whom are un-professional, crew who have tried to cover up. Crew whom have lied, but more seriously to themselves. They have become the laughing stock and are being ridiculed ....not for what happened, but for lying.

[FatFlaps]

Townsh1t Dog - There is no strange/weird/funny/amusing/conspiratorial coincidence here - you have created one (moron).

Have you ever met Miles? Or spoken to him regarding his operation? How do you call someone dodgy when you've never conversed with him or seen his operation first hand? From the mutt's mouth "the man running things there is dodgey" which implies you think CemAir is dodgy. So basically you have some pre-conceived idea of how things should be with very little actual experience to back those ideas up...its the "as long as I get paid, I don't care what happens" attitude.

I find it quite ridiculous how this industry operates - nothing better to do with your time than gossip like a bunch of schoolgirls - and yes, I know you have a bigger d1ck than me so I suggest you put it away, shut up now and next time think before you yap.

[I.R.PIRATE]

""The crew messed up, its got nothing to do with maintenance, it got to do with crew not knowing the aircraft, crew whom are in denial to reality, crew whom are un-professional, crew who have tried to cover up. Crew whom have lied, but more seriously to themselves. They have become the laughing stock and are being ridiculed ....not for what happened, but for lying.""


Great post there!! that is the only truth that matters in this case.:D:D

[maxrated]

I cant understand why Cemair is being pulled through the mud on this, they simply own the aircraft. Or is this an attemp to deflect flak from the operator who should surley have systems in place to prevent such a situation from happening.

I've done some bussiness with Cemair in the recent past and it seemed like a very slick operation to me. It was also a pleasure doing bussiness with Mr VD Molen, who despite his so called "past reputation" of which I have little knowledge, seemed to run a good show. I'd do bussiness with them again.

[The Jester]

Knor

I am not sure if you are from an English speaking prt of this planet , but you should read my post carefully .

I did not say that the pilot or the operation was part of the National Carrier , Air Baboonia .

I said that Namibia's aviation is corrupted and need to see a doctor .

You " laaities " are getting very emosional when **** like this happen , and post actually very funny replies to congratulate the crew of a job well done etc etc .

I am not an aviation expert , but tell me if a 1900 is supposed to be banked steep if the low fuel warning has been sounded in the cockpit .

I have heard a birdie ( maybe a vulture ) say that the crew banked the 1900 steeper than 45 % to get it back to the airport .

It is sort of logic that some **** will happen with steep turns and no or low fuel in the wing isn't it ?

Why did the crew did a go around when the ceiling was apparently 400feet ( according to crew landing before this incident )

Maybe **** training , bad IF renewal , to use to good Nam weather , to use to flying to Eros with low fuel to safe the Babe Watch guys a minute on the climb etc etc .

Was this crew ever trained on a Sim ? I guess not .


I give Air Baboonia min dae before they get blacklisted from Eurocontrol .

Enjoy !

[LittleMo]

I might be flogging an already tired horse here, but in fairness if one reads the man (womans?) posts, TDog isn't saying anything about cemair its self, but is on more of a rant about Miles.
And once again in fairness, hasn't Miles been reponsible for a few deaths in SA because of disputeable maintenance/procedures etc?

As far as I can remember there is a smoking crater at the end of Rand airports rwy and on on the threshold at FAJS which he put there aparently due to overloading/timex engines etc.

If you read the judgement handed down by Judge PJ du Plessis you'll find tha the doggy has a point:

This is taken from the CAA statement of ZS-OJY the Cheiftan that crashed at Rand:

Mr. P. J. Du Plessis, the Magistrate presiding over the Judicial Inquest into the deaths caused by the fatal aircraft accident near Rand Airport on 6 December 1999, in which 10 lives were lost, released his findings and recommendations yesterday. The Judicial Inquest was conducted over sixteen days during April 2002.

The CAA welcomed and cooperated fully with the inquest proceedings and hoped that this process would assist in closing this tragic event, particularly for the families of the victims of the crash.

The crashed aircraft operated by Flightline Charters had taken off from Rand Airport on a commercial charter flight to Orangemund in Namibia, when shortly after taking off, the pilot reported an emergency to the control tower and requested clearance to return to the airport to land. The aircraft crashed about two minutes after take off and everybody on board lost their lives.

The investigation into the accident, conducted by the CAA, revealed that the probable cause of the accident was the failure of a critical exhaust pipe segment, which in turn caused the right-hand engine to lose power/fail. It is was also found that the aircraft exceeded it's designed load limit.

This overloaded condition of the aircraft was thus a highly significant contributory factor to the accident. The company’s lack of flight operations management experience, professional flight standards supervision and an operational safety management program were regarded as significant contributing factors.

The anomalies noted in regulatory oversight of the operator (airworthiness and flight operations surveillance by the former Chief Directorate:CAA in the Department of Transport and CAA are regarded as possible contributing factors.

According to the Commissioner for Civil Aviation, Mr. Trevor Abrahams "this was a landmark accident investigation for the Civil Aviation Authority as it represents a whole new approach to investigating accidents through a detailed investigation not only of the immediate circumstances and conditions surrounding the accident, but also a close look at the chain of actions and inactions by all connected parties that could be identified as possibly contributing to the tragic event.

A total of 17 safety recommendations arose out of the investigation. Fifteen of these were directed at the Civil Aviation Authority for implementation. The other two were each directed at the pilot community and at commercial charter operators.

Inquest findings highlighted the following aspects surrounding the accident.

The aircraft sustained a power loss in the right hand engine shortly after take off and that the pilot flew the aircraft in accordance with the pilot’s operating handbook.

The aircraft was certified to fly on one engine but that the overweight condition resulted in the subsequent crash.

The magistrate also found that the accident investigation conducted by the CAA was extensive and that the overweight of the aircraft was substantially under reported in the accident report and that the actual weight of the aircraft was substantially more than the certified maximum take off weight limit of the aircraft.

The magistrate also found that the operator’s practices in loading the aircraft was at variance with the approved operators manual of Flight Line Charter Services in that the baggage was not weighed nor was the required weight and balance calculated for the accident flight.

The magistrate emphasized that once the CAA approved an Operations Manual, the operators had a responsibility to ensure compliance with that approved Operations Manual.

The operator was found to have deviated significantly from the CAA approved Operators Manual in terms of the critical issue of weight and balance of their aircraft. Specifically, the accident flight was loaded to capacity and the General Manager should have ensured proper weighing of the cargo and passengers on the 6th of December 1999.

The magistrate also found that the CEO of Flightline Charter Services C.C. had erroneously amended the Pilots Operating Handbook, thereby giving the pilot an incorrect basis for calculating the maximum take off mass of the aircraft.

The magistrate’s recommendations included:
1. That the CAA consider disciplinary steps against officers who accepted the patently incorrect information submitted on the test flight report submitted to the CAA. The magistrate also ruled that the remoteness of this action ruled out any prosecution involving the CAA.

2. That the maintenance organization (AMO), PLACO’s failure to notify the CAA when the Mandatory Periodic Inspections were late or over flown, was a serious indictment of the AMO. The magistrate also found PLACO’s conduct as the seller and registration AMO as warranting severe criticism but that the remoteness to the actual accident ruled out prosecution.

3. That the manner of loading of the accident flight resulted in a clear case of negligence on the part of the operator and Mr. Declan McEneany, in his personal capacity, in respect of each passenger.

4. That Miles van der Molen, in his personal capacity and as CEO of Flightline Charter Services C.C. was negligent in relation to the death of the 9 passengers and the pilot for having erroneously altering the pilot’s Operating Handbook.

The CAA will study the findings and recommendations of this inquest and identify which steps we need to take to enhance aviation safety in South Africa.

Notwithstanding the tragic events on the 6th of December 1999, air transport remains the safest mode of travel.

The CAA has taken a number of steps in the wake of this accident, including the implementation of the accident report’s safety recommendations, to ensure continuing improvement in the level of safety in our aviation industry.

In some cases, the CAA does encounter operators who refuse to comply with the minimum safety requirements and ultimately have to take action to deprive them of their licence to operate, as was done with Flightline Charters in 2000.

The CAA will continue to work with industry to enhance our aviation safety standards but will also take decisive action to close operators who refuse to comply with aviation safety regulations.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Will never forget sitting at the holding point of RWY 29 that morning watching it all happen...:yuk::sad:

[Knormoer]

Reply on Jester's comment

"I am not sure if you are from an English speaking prt of this planet" - I guess you arent either and I quote "Maybe **** training , bad IF renewal , to use to good Nam weather , to use to flying to Eros with low fuel to safe the Babe Watch guys a minute on the climb etc etc ."

I think what you were trying to say is "too used"

I mean come on, they landed safely and everyone is ok. Maybe they screwed up, we all do sometime - its how you fix it that counts!

Calling me a laaitie? I take that as a compliment! ;)

[centerbearing]

so whats the verdict? What is happening with the investigation? Was there a cover up or just talk?:confused:

[WhinerLiner]

Mo

Firstly I would like to comment on your impressive ability to cut and paste. Considering the self opinionated super hero you are, one might be forgiven for thinking that the bulk of the idiocy comes from you, but apparently not. Was tempted to touch on your checkered past but decided it wouldn't take the matter forward.


Just a thought:
ZS-OIG was the aircraft at Jhb Int
The aircraft was owned by Ken Heuer of Transafrican Aviation, maintained by the late Cornie Grobler.
GJ Air was the operator. GJ Air was at the time being run by Stuart Ross (now sequestrated) and Glenn Taylor. Glenn is a well known aviation personality that culled the Metro population, and a few other aircraft.
What exactly was his involvement?

Why don't you cut and paste us another fine read.

[LittleMo]

Now I know why you have the name whiner...

Of course I cut and pasted that report, how else would I get it on the web? I didn't write it, CAA did. Muppet.

I was just using FACT to illustrate the man/dog has a point. Nothing beyond that.

You seem very quick to jump up and defend those who have been proven by a magistrate to be as crooked as a hillbilly's smile. I'm not sure what chequered past you are refering to but please feel free to pm me with any information you may have.

Anyways, I think this has gone far enough. The whole point the puppy made was that M vd M was in someway involved in the aerie concerned and that HE is a dubious character, not Cemair. Read the posts. The facts support that. Not once has anyone said Cemair is to blame/has something to hide.:ugh:

As a learned colleague of mine once said, arguing on the internet is like getting a gold medal at the special olympics, even if you win you're still retarded...

[joshua express]

Just some points to ponder :

1. Legal weather information is to obtain a forecast from a weather station - phone Windhoeks met office and they will read you the TAF for WHK International for Eros. That gives you exactly NIL information for Eros as Eros' weather can be very different from WHK internationals. If you query the met officer on duty expect to hear : " are you trying to tell me how to do my job ?" ( BUT legally you have obtained a valid forecast !!!:rolleyes:)
To phone your buddy on the ground may be more accurate but not legal...

2. The ILS app at FYWH is outdated, the localizer beam is notoriously narrow, the published final app track has not been compensated for variation in 8 years and is at least 2 deg off - in itself not hectic but couple that to a narrow loc beam, the outer marker has been stolen, and the missed app ends in the app pattern which makes the app very time consuming....

3. Namibia's ATC has been blacklisted for 5 years now and all the good ones have disappeared beyond Namibia's bordes,apparently distances of aircraft to the WHV were requested while said aircraft were in the hold...
:oh:

Elize is a very good pilot and did a great job landing the 1900 where she did.It is easy to sit in an airconditioned office and point fingers:ok:

By the way - Air Namibia passed the IOSA audit - and may not be allowed into European airspace as their controlling Agency - DCA Namibia failed their ICAO audit, not because of any shortcoming on Air Namibias side. If u ( Jester) want to attack somebody at least have some facts straight - I know lies make for a more interesting story but only lies also become boring:}

Always thought the point of an investigation was to prevent this from happening in future - not to crucify somebody.

[Contract Dog]

JE,
on point 1, take more fuel
on point 2, take more fuel
on point 3, take more fuel

just a thought?

Dog

[Propellerpilot]

I'm just glad nobody got killed or hurt - so damn lucky !! It shows me how crucial it is to have a plan B and a plan C - landing on the d:mad:n road is definately plan 0 if it could have been prevented by carrying more fuel. This is a 1900 and not a 210....

[Voel]

Air Nam takes 1700 lbs of fuel on that route. Same route same aircraft type. She take 1000lbs on that route. So I agree with with DOG.

PS. The ILS approach plates were modified and check in 2006. I guess Joshua Express has an outdated approach plate. Just a matter of interest. If you 15 miles out at 10 000 feet, there is no ways you can intercept the glide slope. One is supposed to intercept the ILS at 9.3 DME at 7400 feet. So it was not an ILS problem, but an error of judegment by ATC.