Heli Expo 2008 report from first day EC-175

[chopper2004]

Greetings all

Just saw this morning the hue and cry and great revealing of the new Eurocopter EC-175 and slightly disappointed :bored:. Looks like a souped up AW139....however what sticks in my mind is the 3 bladed tail rotor. Interesting.....

Truth be told I am more impressed with the new ERA EC-225;)

Nice to see the LAPD new colour scheme for their latest AS-350B2 and the new glass cocpit Bell 206B III.

Agustawestland stand ..quite impressive
SIkorsky's stand what with the X2 pretty impressive and new First response Cougar S-92 SAR.

Bell ....not bad this year..what with the 429 and Delaware police multi mission Bell 412.

Thats all folks for now:)

[HeliComparator]

I saw the EC175 mockup before it left for the States. It does vaguely resemble the 139 but its bigger - 16 seats (?) in a reasonably spacious cabin. And Joy - more legroom for the pilots than the AS332L / EC225 family! Its also got proper doors... And American engines (which is pretty amazing for the French!)

A reliable source told me not to pay attention to the 3 bladed tail rotor - after all its only a mock-up! Maybe someone broke one so they had to space the remaining 3 out...

Lets hope that having the fuel and baggage at the back does not result in CofG issues a la 139.

HC

[407TX]

If you have any pictures from HAI, please post it. Thanks:ok:

[Chris P Bacon]

Plenty of pictures and vidoes from this years show here http://www.aintv.com/

[Aser]

Website of the new EC-139 err.. EC-175!

http://www.eurocopter.com/w1/ec175/

:E

[chopper2004]

Hi 407TX

If I can lay my hands on a friends laptop or PC I'll down load the photos here in Houston. :) Otherwise it will have to be at the end of the week. Sorry friend

[tottigol]

With the Chinese involved I wouldn't be surprised if a little "design borrowing" took place.
Power plants are the same as the 139's, so there's only so much you can squeeze out of performance.
Put more weight on those donkies and you are going to end up with just a bigger and heavier underpowered 155.
Let's not forget that the 139 is certified for 15 passengers away from the land of "Supersize Me".

[Brilliant Stuff]

IMHO in the pictures I have seen I find the EC-175 rather an ugly duckling.

[maxvne]

with a base price of $8 mill dollars im not suprised they sold 100 already

[Doors Off]

:{:{:{Nooo, Eurocopter, where has your beautiful aesthetic design team gone? It looks like an Mi-2 Hoplite that has popped over to Thailand for some cheap plastic surgery. :{:{

[widgeon]

so where is EC160 and 165 . I am sure VIH would buy one as they seem to get at least one of each other model.

[tottigol]

Yet another Renault from France just like their Airbus products, this one made worse by the Chink participation.

[zalt]

More powerful (Canadian!) engines than the AB139 and far larger and capable machine.

Always nice to see we all live in the global village: Isn't part of the S92 made in China by the Jingdezhen Helicopter Group, with more in Taiwan, Spain etc??

http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=6880&z=6

[212man]

...so where is EC160....

I don't think ECF are in the market to produce 6 tonne single engined aircraft just yet!

[tottigol]

Zalt, no the donkeys are the same as the AW139 (P&WC PT6s) and they have the same -67E number.
The only difference there may be a full time DEC rather than the AW139 EEC.
So I am figuring roughly the same specific fuel burn; they also carry up to 530 gallons fuel.
This EC-175 got nothing to do with the S-92, but everything to do with ch....., I mean inexpensive production costs.

[Aser]

Power plants are the same as the 139's, so there's only so much you can squeeze out of performance.
Put more weight on those donkies and you are going to end up with just a bigger and heavier underpowered 155.
Let's not forget that the 139 is certified for 15 passengers away from the land of "Supersize Me".

I don't think the 175 will be underpowered, I hope they are going to start from 7.000MGW like the 139 will be this summer or later, there is power to add a couple of pax or more fuel, as some people have said in this forum we can reduce the OEI performances for a few seconds.

The 15 pax. option in the 139 isn't very comfortable, so it's really nice a bigger cabin, if they do it right the 175 I'm sure will be another winner.

Regards
Aser

[Ian Corrigible]

Zalt, no the donkeys are the same as the AW139 (P&WC PT6s) and they have the same -67E number. The only difference there may be a full time DEC rather than the AW139 EEC.
Not true, the -67E offers a useful power advantage over the -67C at all ratings.

I/C

[tottigol]

OK, I'll go back in my corner for a while:*

[Ian Corrigible]

Hey, don't leave just yet! :E

Besides, in addition to the Renault 5, they did also give us half of Concorde. And some nice plonk. And Sophie Marceau, Eva Green, Emmanuelle Beart, Brigitte Bardot and Alizee. (Sorry, I seem to have wandered off-subject... :E )

I/C

[funfinn2000]

So is the Expo over yet or What?!!!

Maybe then Gentlemen you can return back to work and have a look at some resumes/C.V's that the Global heli population has sent you in the last week and maybe advertise a few jobs online if you have any.

I will be available soon, ha ha

When is it next year, some where nice I hope?

Safe flying

FF

[David Stepanek]

HC:
16 seats yes, nice cabin if it stays that size, uses a small aisle for the rear row to exit. Baggage door is high but probably manageable. Engines, well American parent, but Canadian built, they speak French there too!

My real reason for the post was your comment on three bladed tail rotor. Do you have a concern? I though it was an interesting (design/concept) mockup. The blades have a quite a large cord and I would imagine three blades would be easier to balance or have less vibratory loads. And hopefully less, dare I say tail cracking issues. Would three produce less noise too?

I too have concerns on CG. Big engines, big tail, big baggage compartment and of course all the new avionics up front will be light.

And we too placed an order 10 +10.

[HeliComparator]

Hi Dave

When I said "American" I was thinking of "from the continent of America" rather than from the USA. But as a non-native I stand to be corrected - does "American" imply "from the USA"?

Anyway, regarding the tail rotor I don't think that will be the final design and if it were, it just looks noisy to me. The aspect ratio (chord to length ratio) reminds me of a B214 main rotor blade - the B214 was surely the noisiest helicopter in terms of noise to weight ratio. And my gliding experience tells me that low aspect ratio blades are inefficient at high angles of attack - ie in the hover.

But there is certainly a hole in the product range, for EC and also for other manufacturers, so if they get the detail right, it has the potential to do very well.

HC

[Tiggertoo]

The 3 bladed tail rotor is the same as the one fitted to the EC-665 Tiger. It works nicely for a 6.1 t helo (50 kts all round). I guess a proven design on a helo only marginally heavier at 7 t (and designed for a very different purpose) should work well.

[chopper2004]

407TX pics as promised:)

Picture 1 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255543221O161474218.jpg)

Picture 2 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255543229O134806635.jpg)

Picture 3 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255543224O908806456.jpg)

Picture 4 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255543268O120395390.jpg)

Picture 5 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255543464O974484100.jpg)

Picture 6 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255543506O573906327.jpg)

Picture 7 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255543207O486294157.jpg)

Picture 8 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255543214O414961632.jpg)

Picture 9 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255545204O976252826.jpg)

Picture 10 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255545214O337113226.jpg)

Picture 11 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255545250O284993897.jpg)


There you have it:):cool:

[tottigol]

Chopper 2004, some of the details are not clear, can you possibly make those pictures any larger?
The EC-175 is definitely quite larger than the 139, just look at the floor height off the ground.
Those tail rotor blades do have a resemblance to the ones on the Tiger attack helicopter.
Love that EC-130.
I have great hopes on the X2 from Sikorsky, they are after all the only American helicopter manufacturer left with any engineering capability other than rehashing 50 year old airframe concepts.

[206Fan]

Didn't know ERA got a 225, looks swell in the paint and i like that 1H's glass panel, nice, cheers for sharing!

Heli-Expo: Eurocopter books commitments for 111 EC175s By Graham Warwick ([email protected])
http://adserver.adtech.de/adserv%7C3.0%7C289%7C1061324%7C0%7C277%7CADTECH;loc=300;key= key1+key2+key3+key4;grp=%5Bgroup%5D (http://adserver.adtech.de/adlink%7C3.0%7C289%7C1061324%7C0%7C277%7CADTECH;loc=300;key= key1+key2+key3+key4;grp=%5Bgroup%5D)

Eurocopter has left Heli-Expo in Houston, Texas with letters of intent for 111 of its new EC175s (http://www.eurocopter.com/w1/ec175/), having opened the show by unveiling a full-scale mock-up of the 7t-class, 16-passenger helicopter.
The European manufacturer says 13 different customers signed letters of intent to buy the EC175 during the three days of the show. These included launch customers Bristow Group and VIH Aiation of Canada, both oil and gas operators.
Other commitments came from the UK's Bond, Denmark's Dancopter, France's Heli-Union, Era and Halvorson Group of the USA, India's Global Vectra, New Zealand's HNZ, Belgium's NHV and Pegaso of Mexico.
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=21687
© Eurocopter

The Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67E-powered EC175 is being developed jointly with China's Harbin Aviation Industry Group (http://www.avichina.net/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/ProgramShow.html?ProgramShow_ProgramID=c373e9069a92ad048fee8 fe2656ff061). First flight is scheduled for 2009, with European certification expected in 2011.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPPZfqTDDF0

[David Stepanek]

HC,
You are right, but we Americans like to think we are the only Americans, when the truth is the term does encompass our continental friends both North and South.

Interesting comments on the tail rotor, I remember someone mentioning to me while I was at Sikorsky that they could think of no helicopter that went to production with the same tail rotor and/or tail stabilizer/configuration that was original to the design concept.

Cheers,
Dave

[maxvne]

Mac's in the UK are saying $10 million dollars for this heli eventhough they have been launched for $8 Million, does anyone have a contact company in the US where one may be able to order this heli

[widgeon]

EC have always had Euro pricing and USD pricing for the longest time it was cheaper to buy in Europe , with the sagging dollar the pendulum has swung the other way. If you want to fly under N reg in UK you may be OK to buy in USA and fly in Uk ( or other Easa country ) . If you want to transfer to UK register you may find EC less than co operative. But if the diff is 2 mill for sure is is worth looking into. Plus of course the ones for the US market will have reverse main rotor direction :rolleyes:

[turboshaft]

Would McAlpine really price in dollars? Sounds like a fishing expedition to me.

[maxvne]

Yes they have and will give a price in Dollars but in no way will they match the price thats given in the US.
No fishing expedition here

[turboshaft]

So who was the source of your US 'base price'? No disrespect intended, but I think someone's screwing with you (either EC or Philly). No way would they price that bird at 8 mil base.

[maxvne]

It came from EC I couldnt believe it either and thats why we contacted Mac's in UK for the real price. I will keep you posted on what the outcome is and how much we end up paying as we are looking for a VIP fit out.

[chopper2004]

More of my pics

Picture #1 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255745509O811543922.jpg)

Picture #2 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255745630O937263565.jpg)

Picture #3 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255745563O743010325.jpg)

Picture #4 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255746384O299139738.jpg)

Picture #5 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255746458O668864071.jpg)

[Senior Pilot]

Chopper2004,

Thanks for the photos: could you resize them, as the current hosting is excessively large for most monitors. About 800 x 600 would be ideal :ok:

[Capt Hollywood]

A few of mine, apologies for the delay in posting them.

Mavericks EC130
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/44.jpg

Part of the Bell exibit
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/43.jpg

BA609
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/42.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/41.jpg

EC225
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/30.jpg

EC225 cockpit
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/2.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/15.jpg

Bell 429
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/28.jpg

Bell 429 tailrotor
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/27.jpg

EC175
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/21.jpg

UH1H Cockpit
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/25.jpg

AS350 Cockpit
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/24.jpg

Bell 206
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/22.jpg

Sikorsky X2
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/29.jpg

Even an R44 got the glass teatment
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/13.jpg

[Capt Hollywood]

And a few more....

Sikorsky S92
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/16.jpg

S92 instrument panel
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/17.jpg

S92 tail rotor
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/4.jpg

Carson S61
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/14.jpg

AB139 Cockpit
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/5.jpg

Bell407
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/18.jpg

EC135 interior
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/9.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/11.jpg

[ARRAKIS]

Nice pictures, but sometimes, when it comes to cockpit/cabin pictures it's not obvious, which helicopter it is, especially if someone wasn't personally at heli expo.

Arrakis

[206Fan]

Very nice pics, love them 225 screens..

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/22.jpg

Any exterior pics of that 206? Them cyclic mounts look to big lol!

[LeakyLucy]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8379.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8374.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8367.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8362.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8361.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8400.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8395.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8394.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8393.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8392.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/leakylucy/IMG_8391.jpg

[Blackhawk9]

Nice paint scheme on the ERA 225 , someone must have used logic in the design ( rare on most corporate schemes these days), helicopters are dirty sooty beasts , in particular the 332 series!! So why do companies continue to come up with schemes with colours like white ,orange and yellow right in the middle of the exhaust area ,good to see the area were the soot will sit is black on the ERA machine so even if the A/C is dirty it still looks classy.

[Capt Hollywood]

ARRAKIS - Have put some labels on my pics so you know what you're looking at.

Davy07 - I don't have any external pics of that Jetranger with the Sagem screens but it was a pretty plain looking aircraft on the outisde. I wondered what it was doing there until I saw the inside. And yes, I thought those cyclic grips were very high also.

[chopper2004]

Capt Hollywood / Davy07 -My photo of LAPD Bell 206BIII is the one with the SAGEM screens !!:)

[ARRAKIS]

Thank you Capt Hollywood.

Arrakis

[tottigol]

Lovely pictures, thanks for the effort on behalf of the pprune community.:ok:
I wish I had been able to go.

[David Stepanek]

Blackhawk9,
Thanks for the comment on Era's paint. I'll be sure to send the team that worked the paint scheme your regards. They did put a lot of thought. Fortunately black works for Era's logo. Looks good on all of our helicopters too!
Dave

[skadi]

The airframe of the first prototype is beeing delivered from China to Marignane/France for completion. First flight is planned for the end of 2009.

http://www.eads.com/web/pressdbdata/de/1024/content/OF00000040950509/2/87/42344872.jpg

skadi

[gwelo shamwari]

anyone heard anything more on the expected EC175????

[GoodGrief]

I hope they are going to start from 7.000MGW

If EC sticks to their philosophy the max weight you can expect from an EC175 wil be 6999kg.

The second digit gives you max t/off below x metric tons.

EC120=1800kg
EC130=2800kg
EC135=2910kg
EC155=4920kg

[Ian Corrigible]

From AIN (http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/eurocopter-ec-175-quietly-makes-first-flight/)

Eurocopter EC 175 Quietly Makes First Flight
December 8, 2009

The Eurocopter EC 175 medium twin helicopter made its first flight on Friday at the company’s headquarters in Marignane, France, according to a source close to Eurocopter. Another source–a Eurocopter official–told AIN that the first flight was the culmination of almost one month of ground tests.

The manufacturer will stage an official “maiden flight” on Thursday next week. The program milestone is thus taking place on schedule, as it had been planned for “late in 2009” since the middle of last year.

Eurocopter recently disclosed the EC 175’s radius of action offshore–270 nm at ISA+20–and a top cruise speed of about 135 knots. The company also announced the main gearbox’s capability to fly for 30 minutes after total loss of oil.

Targeted primarily at the offshore oil market, the EC 175 offers 16 passenger seats and competes with the AgustaWestland AW139. The Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67E-powered rotorcraft is a 50-50 joint program with China’s Avicopter, where it is known as the Z15.

EASA certification is pegged for 2011.
I/C