One day you're a hero ...

[Bronx]

Award for cliff rescue team (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/6967125.stm)

and then ... news (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/12/nhero112.xml)

Helicopter rescuevideo (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_7180000/newsid_7183400?redirect=7183402.stm&news=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1&bbram=1&nbram=1)

Will the coastguard will take this off their website now? Tribute (http://www.fortwilliamcoastguard.co.uk/Paul%20Waugh.htm)


Looks like they lost a good guy.
Guess the rules lovers are happy.

[Senior Pilot]

What's the old saying about rules: "For the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men?"

OH & S seems to be more important than common sense these days :(

[Scissorlink]

Hopefully one day it is the child of a Oh&S rule maker stuck down a cliff..."we could have saved her but we had to wait for back up"

SL

[blimp22]

Many people on this site slag off journalists and the media. Don't believe all you read in the papers. As for the website, thats an unofficial site produced locally in Fort William by one of the Coast Rescue Team there, not the MCA official site.

[whoateallthepies]

So Blimp22, what's the real story then? You seem to know things the journalists don't.

Thank god for people like Paul Waugh, prepared to take a risk for the sake of others. And a pox on the Coastguard managers who "ticked him off". Idiots. It reminds me of the incident last year with the pretend coppers who watched a child drown because of "Elf 'n' Safety" precautions.

Disgusting http://i.1asphost.com/whoateallthepies/pie.jpg

[on21]

It's like modern day Policing, cover your arse first, then sort the problem.

[Bronx]

blimp22

Who's slagging off journalists and the media? :confused:
Which part shouldn't we believe? :confused:

A Maritime and Coastguard Agency spokesman said: "We wish Paul well in his future endeavours and the MCA is very grateful for his past activities and work in the Coastguard Rescue Service. However, the MCA is very mindful of health and safety regulations which are in place for very good reasons. Above all our responsibility is to maintain the health and welfare of those who we sometimes ask to go out in difficult and challenging conditions to effect rescues. The MCA is not looking for dead heroes."

Yeah, a Scottish team give a big tribute on their website to an English coastguard who rescued some climbers who got stranded in snow and ice high up Ben Nevis mountain when he visting Scotland .

Have you got a point or did you just feel like posting? :confused:

[tecpilot]

I don´t know if there is a story behind the story. Under normal circumstances...

For me with some hundred mountain rescues it´s normal to debrief a mission. And if a regular trooper climbs 300ft without personal rescue gear i would have some questions to him.

First, how could a rescuer after alarming arrive an accident site without equipment? What a kind of mission preparation?

Second, without equipment he is not able to secure the victim and himself. What was really his help in this case? Was the child really safer than before?

An injured or dead trooper is not able to bring help. Thats allways the same word for all kind of rescue missions including our main business helicopter rescues.

May be in a lucky mission he is the hero for the media, but in case of failing he is only a fool, breaking the rules not insurance covered.

Thats my view, but i understand people without real rescue experiences will have an other. After a lot of waited hours for better weather or needed equipment on rescue missions, some injured collegues, dead victims, i hope you will understand.

[JTobias]

It's a terrible shame that red tape keeps blighting those that are genuineley trying to do good. I accept it's a finely balanced argument:- On the one hand do we want to see the rescuer and victim injured or killed because additional safety precautions were not taken and on the other do we want to see the victim perish because additional time was taken to prepare for a "safe(r)" rescue.

I regret that we are heading to a point that H&S are going to insist on individual risk evaluations, paperwork and other red tape in the future.

Life's a risk and I think a trained rescuer is perfectly capable of conducting his or her own risk assesment before performing his/her moral or professional duty.

Well done that Man!!!

[tecpilot]

The main question is RISK MANAGEMENT and the second Mission Preparation. Seems to me we do not know enough about this in that special rescue mission.

Some years ago i was alarmed in bad visibility to rescue a group of volunteer mountain troopers and a victim with a broken ankle. Because the volunteers lost their key to the equipment room they decided to go out without rescue equipment. They climbed up to the victim which was generally in good mood but unable to go of course. Lacking ropes, rescue bag or harnesses the volunteers tried to bring the victim down under senseless risk, but at last without success. A high risk helicopter rescue (Long Line) mission was started in bad visibility. I was mad furious!

In the descibed file it was better to wait for a backup key than to go blind with a rescue syndrome.

[herman the crab]

Copied from a Coastie/RNLI/SAR forum..

Hello Everyone
I would like to thankyou all for your comments.As you know in the job we do be it cg rnli ambulance fire or police no job is the same this job was different as the MRU was stuck in a field on the other side of railway track there was 3 locks on both gates a field and a half away only 3 of us responded to pagers so we had called for back up which arrived after the job. 2 of us ran over the field to assess the job the Polce air support unit had a spot light on the girl which was great it was blowing a gale coming off the sea and she had been thre 45mins she was shaking and had mild hyperthermia when you see a young face looking up at you pleading for help i wasnt going to stand there and do nothing she was planning her own funeral in her head. If i couldnt have got to her then thats different i would have had to run back over the field for equipment but i think she would have fallen before we got back. the ledge she had stood on had collapsed so she was hanging by her arms on the grass so i had to get below her and make my own foot holds up behind her and pin her to the cliff face and we were stood there for another 30mins until Resce 128 came and winched her and the others up and took them staright to hospital.
The RAF lads from Leconfield & The police lads at tees valley airport did a good job too considering the wind it was a good bit of flying.
Since the Rescue i have had nothing but chew of certain members of the coastguard from AOM down the line and some trying to cover their backs by lying . I was trutheful i Broke a rule and admitted it i apologised i have been on many sad and bad jobs and to be treated like a criminal for rescuing someone.
In the 13 yrs ive been in the CG i have done alot of things to promote what we do saftey and generally putting the CG forward like organising fund raising event Pulling Tornado Aircraft at RAF leeming and many other things . I recieved the VOLUNTEER COASTGUARD OF THE YEAR IN 2006 Chief Executive Award for working at the boatshow in 2006 both of which i didnt know we did and for all ive done for the coastguard in the community. Some people dont like to do PR wok but i do but i do and some people have been in along time done nothing and got nothing but dont want anyone else to do anything.But like someone said were on the job you have to assess the situation. I was told once that one day i would work outside the Box and this was the time.
But thank you all for your support and comments Im not a HERO WE ARE ALL HEROS THAT DO EMERGENCY WORK AND ONE TIME YOU MIGHT HAVE TO WORK OUTSIDE THE BOX I HOPE YOU GET THE BACKING YOU NEED
Thanks again
Paul Waugh

HTC

[Flying Binghi]

one day your a hero...... to some, always a hero.

[blimp22]

If I listed all the people who slag off journalists on this site I'd be here all day. My point was that just as journos add the "plane in death dive, everyone nearly died but didn't" element, they will also do that to emotive stories such as this.

I may have misunderstood your comment about the tribute on the website. I thought you were asking for it to be removed and was pointing out the fact that it was not the "Coastguard" website (www.mcga.gov.uk (http://www.mcga.gov.uk)) as most people know it.

As pointed out by many in this thread we need people like Paul Waugh, he is an ex colleague and I believe, as do the many that he is a hero in the true sense of the word. I used to do the job and would like to think that I had the balls to do the same thing in the same circumstances.

So in answer to your final question, Yes I do have a point.

[sonas]

I know the feeling well! After quite a few years Service with the Coastguards enough was enough. Like you the job was great, working with various Helos and crews. When it suited management you were a coastguard rescue officer - over step the mark or use common sense you were a volunteer!
Well done on the Rescue .:)

[tecpilot]

To much PR is allways suspicious.

Imaginable Mr Waugh looked down the cliff with forgotten gear, got panic, feared for a fall of the girl and questions after this and climbed headless down?

Sorry for my mind, but it was Mr. Waugh searching for publicity before real quitting MCA.

Bronx forgot: "No formal resignation letter had yet been received, he confirmed." (The MCA spokesmen about Mr. Waugh)

At first speaking to the media is never a solution.

"some trying to cover their backs by lying" as reported. Who have a reason to lie and why? I see only the troopers, the girl and the police helicopter above.

[helimutt]

tecpilot, quit being an ass!

[whoateallthepies]

tecpilot
May be in a lucky mission he is the hero for the media, but in case of failing he is only a fool, breaking the rules not insurance covered.

True, if you choose to take a risk there is the possibility that it can all go wrong. But this is not a perfect world and you cannot always make a "risk assessment" and decide that the risks to yourself overweigh the safety concerns for a victim. There may be occasions (God forbid) where you have to accept a certain amount of risk in order to save others. I am happy for you that this situation has not occurred during your rescues.

Please do not criticise others who have had to make that decision on the spur of the moment. http://i.1asphost.com/whoateallthepies/pie.jpg

[Efirmovich]

Well said Helimutt...... Heard the interveiw with him on Radio 4, I could be very wrong but he sounded just an ordinary guy that saved a girls life and for him it wasn't a big deal until everyone else got involved. Think what you like but the UK would be a better place if we had a few more with his attitude.
Risk assesment ,,,,HA,,,,,, intelligent people do mentally thousands of time a day !

Respect,

E.

[Lord Mount]

It seems clear to me that this man made a dynamic risk assessment. He weighed up the various courses of action available to him including the potential for failure and decided that he was in a position to minimise the risk to an acceptable level. The fact that he was able to put those actions into practice and reach a successful resolution of the situation proves that the risk assessment was correct.

Well done.:D

As an aside to this. Had he not been a member of the coastguard, say for instance a postman out walking his dog, and had done exactly the same thing, would the coastguard have critisised him or would they have congratulated him as others are doing now?


LM

[helimutt]

Unfortunately the UK, and some parts of the world, are becoming a 'Risk assessment', 'HSE' nightmare. As I see it, the only real reason behind it all these days is purely for economic reasons, ie not wanting to get sued in this litigious society we now find ourselves living in.

Well done Paul Waugh for having the balls to do what you felt right at the time. Pity those guys in the management positions, not at the coalface, who seem to lose touch with reality at times.

[tecpilot]

As i wrote we do not know enough! And i do not blame Mr. Waugh, just my mind far away.

If a postman climbs down, it´s a real brave man.

I will fire any rescue trooper in my own area which proceed like:

"At first we are going to the accident site without rescue equipment, only to take a look and to spot the victim, than we are going back and grab the needed gear."

Especially if the car/equipment ist a distance away.

A minimum of needed equipment, rope, harness, first aid ... will weight only a dozen lbs, one single backpack is allways usefull in the initial attack.

I like the idea hanging on a cliff or laying injured on ground and the first rescuer comes up saying " Ok, i know now where you are and in which condition, stay cool i´m here again in 15 minutes."

Shoot me!

[Tonka Toy]

Heres a thought. This time last year a coastguard aircrew member was quite seriously injured and left unconcious during an incident, injuries, for which they are still recieving treatment. Lets consider that the only thing that has been said to this individual is within 48 hours of the incident and whilst still carrying the injuries and doing his job 'because there is no one else' the only thing that is said to that individual, is 'are you going to sue us?'

Moving on a couple of months, lets then find this individual called out at the crack of sparrows completely ill equipped to look for an overdue yacht, reported missing. Suppose then this person insists; on finding the yacht having crawled around the north sea looking for him in bad IFR wx, that he take a tow off a lifeboat before the approaching bad stuff hits him, (bearing in mind he's been missing over a day now and has no radios).

A weak later this individual finds himself being hauled over the coals because he had no right to insist. He had no right to protect himself, his aircraft and crew from this individual getting them killed looking for them some time later when the inevitable happen.

Lets now consider why to the MCA the serious injury of crew engaged on duties for the MCA is acceptable, but protecting themselves from the various idiots of the world is not.

You now have an idea of the disturbed thinking of the MCA civil servant.

[Bronx]

You now have an idea of the disturbed thinking of the MCA civil servant.

Too much for me to understand. I got enough trouble understanding tecpilot's thinking.
One minute he's suggesting the guy is a publicity seeker and the next he's suggesting he was negligent as well. :(

[Tonka Toy]

The moral is, sadly, if you are in that invidious position, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. You are best just to leave well alone. It will cost you as much as it does them. One way or the other.:(

[TeeS]

It was only a few months ago that 2 Police Community Support Officers were berated, both in the press and even by Members of Parliament on the TV, for not going in to a pond to search for a drowned child.

It appears, as Tonka says, that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't!!

The only answer is to put all health and safety reps out on a cliff face, lock all the rescue equipment away, and don't let them back to work until they have begged to be rescued by someone like Paul Waugh!

It is always easy to make difficult decisions from the safety of a warm office.

Thats my thoughts for what they are worth.

TeeS

[helimutt]

I agree those not 'out there' at an incident can easily say what they wish. Sometimes spur of the moment decisions can have far reaching consequences.

It's like saying don't ever jump into a river after your dog. You'll probably drown and the dog will most likely get out further down stream.
Do you think differently if it's a child or person? I think most of us would think of jumping in.

[Heli-phile]

I know its a while since this was posted but I have only just come across the details.
You did the right thing, Well done and dont you ever forget it, or start to doubt yourself.
I wish your naysayers had the spine to 'do the right thing' with their chairbound dilema, and support your on the spot assessment. You were the one there and you were the one who had to act in realtime.

Its so easy for rear echelon types to act in hindsight.

Good luck in the future, I hope someone reading this will be in a position to help you in a new job, in a environment that has the right balance between SOP's/rules and dynamic descision making.:ok::D

[SASless]

Good Grief Charlie Brown!

Good on yer Paul!:D:D

[SARREMF]

Somebody mention rear echelon mother types?

Heli-phile. Well said.

[Max Shutterspeed]

Unfortunately the UK, and some parts of the world, are becoming a 'Risk assessment', 'HSE' nightmare. As I see it, the only real reason behind it all these days is purely for economic reasons, ie not wanting to get sued in this litigious society we now find ourselves living in.

Well done Paul Waugh for having the balls to do what you felt right at the time. Pity those guys in the management positions, not at the coalface, who seem to lose touch with reality at times.

Exactly.

Plan B. You stand there looking down, waiting for help to arrive and she falls. Could you live with that?

A good friend of mine who has my massive respect is a skilled surgeon. He says these days, there's no such thing as an accident, it has to be someones fault. Where people used to say, "I slipped over, what a fool I feel", now they say, "It's in the hands of my lawyer..."
This will ultimately have an impact on high risk surgery where the patient will die if nothing is done, but if a brilliantly gifted bloke has the nuts to try something, they might just live. But if they're going to end up in court, they won't try it.

Long live litigation....

MS

[SASless]

Tis better to live life as a Wolf than as a Sheep!