Shackletons

[Wopman]

My query is with regard to the Avro Shackleton and it's ability to fly with 3 engines feathered?
Is this true and if so does it lose height by doing so?
Can any ex shack jockeys tell me?

[aw ditor]

One turning two burning on a Mark 3 Phase3?

[olddog]

One Griffon, 2 Vipers? Never tried it, but a downward path I suspect. At Max TOW the loss of a Viper or a Griffon meant that things were critical. The aircrew manual contained little performance information and ignorance was bliss I suspect!! Certainly no mention of Perf A in the late 60s. At light weight it may have been a possibility but I doubt it - 2 Vipers did not equal one Griffon and a Mk3 was heavier than a Mk2 and barely climbed on 2 Griffons at circuit weights

[GeeRam]

Well, the SAAF Mk3 Pelican 16 ended up on it's belly in the African desert when both starboard Griffons quit within 10 mins of each other, on it's way from Cape Town to RIAT back in the early 1990's.

So, I guess 3 out is definately not going to defy Newtons laws......

[ZH875]

Not quite a Shackleton, but Avro Lincoln RF346 steaming down the runway at TFU Defford, just 8 feet off the deck, on one engine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/ZH875/Linc.jpg

(c) Royal Radar Establishment (From Lincoln At War)

(Apologies for the poor quality of scan)

[english_electric]

On the SAAF Griffon, it's because at least one set of Contra rotating props refused to feather creating massive amounts of drag.

I have seen a picture of a (presumably very lightweight!) doing a flyby on one engine in at an airshow in the 50's but don't have a copy of it to hand.

[aw ditor]

In Chris Ashworth's excellent book "The Shackleton" ISBN 0-946627-16-9 page 33, picture of a Mk 2 at Farnborough doing a flyby on one. Very much the party piece and one could come to grief as apparently happened at Gib. If any Mk. could have maintained height on one it MIGHT have been a Mk 1 freshly minted, but I very much doubt it. QFIs' on MOTU used to do a one-off demo 2 engined circuit on the Mk 1 during the conversion phase.

[Milt]

One engine Flybys

If I was to attempt such a thing in one of the Lincolns or Shackletons I flew I would start from on high and close down the 3 engines in the dive to the fly by point to ensure that there was enough momentum remaining to restart engines immediately during the recovery. All a bit risky if one had reluctant props to unfeather.

[allan908]

The Shack Mk3 Phase 3 which was at Sharjah for a while would lose height if it didn't have the 2 burning as well as the 4 turning!

[pr00ne]

SHACKLETONS.








Don't bother me.......................................................... ...................



Ahh memories!

[Shack37]

They did but not any moooooooooooooore.
On a transit back from Majunga to Aden lost number two but it wouldn't feather. Even with the other three the drag caused a slow, steady loss of altitude. Beer was good in Nairobi later though.
Fly on one...............no thank you.
s37

[shack]

Yes as a QFI at Kinloss one used to demonstrate 2 engine circuits, always with Nos1 and 2 feathered and as I remember the decision height was 600'. During a transit from Aden to El Adem I lost No4 around Nassers Corner (who remembers that? apart from, "Krakatoa" who was in the other seat but probably asleep!!) decided not to land at EL Adem but to go on to Luqa and No 1 decided that it had had enough and had to be feathered. No problem but 38's SAR crew were right pi***d off for being called to standby.

During 4 tours on the Old Grey Lady Mks 1,2,3 and 4 that was the only time that two engines packed up, several times one did but never three for which I am truly grateful to Mr. R and R.

[Krakatoa]

I was not asleep, just resting my eyelids !

[shack]

You lie like a cheap Changi watch!!!

[sycamore]

Wasn`t there a chap called Arthur Pine/Vine ?, who had some excitement losing a few engines off Lisbon, and flew it up the river under the bridge to the airfield ?

[spekesoftly]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1571659&postcount=8

[Bigt]

During the 1950s Napier tested the Napier Nomad which was a possible for the Mk 5 Shackleton. It was shown at the 1951 SBAC show on the nose of Lincoln SX973 with the 4 merlins feathered. The engine was axed for financial reasons

[Dunhovrin]

"Shackleton Jockeys"???

Per-lease. Herders, Yes. Inmates, Deffo. Drivers - If You Must (and only 'cos the FC with a Dancing Bear said on telly it wound us..) But jockeys?

Sorry,back to t'thread: Didn't someone at Gib try the old 2 engines feathered fly-past with a 180 at the end and come back with the other two feathered and the first two running again. Except they forgot to run the first two up err first. Or was that yet another lie my QFI told me?

[aw ditor]

Napier Nomad was an "interesting" engine. See ISBN 1 84037 012 2; "Major Piston Aero Engines of WW2". In its Mk 2 guise two-stroke Diesel compound, 3250 hp!!

[old developer]

spekesoftly and Mike Jenvey
Thank you for the link, I arrived at Ballykelly just after the event and only knew the crewroom version and that the man was an absolute legend in "Grey Lady" circles.

[Shackman]

Those were the days when AFCs were awarded almost immediately for flying derring-do. Another one was to 'Pop' Gladstone following his crash on Culloden Moor - another Shack, again with only one or two still turning, half the tail missing after being taken out by one engine that 'fell' off, but using the light of the burning wing to see a space to force land in.

[Pontius Navigator]

Wasn`t there a chap called Arthur Pine/Vine ?, who had some excitement losing a few engines off Lisbon, and flew it up the river under the bridge to the airfield ?


Arthur Vine. Don't know the story though.

Then there was the late Pete Binstead. Out of Stavangar IIRC, can't remember the exercise. Lost one and then a second one on the AEW2. As usual weather was dog sh1t in southern Norway and Scotland. He took it up to Tromso or Trondheim, something like that anyway. I know the others were cutting rough too and he may have shut down a 3rd or put it to idle.

Anyway the the grateful thanks of the crew he got it down safely in a snow storm. The aircraft needed 4 engine changes and of course a new load of AvGas. This had to be driven up by road tanker and ferry. Sadly the tanker driver died en route.

[camlobe]

Re the late Pete Binstead's Norway eye-opener, it was Bodo-Andoya (or vice-versa). On the way from one to the other with 19 POB (full) and maxed out panniers, the No 1 engine started overheating. No probs, shut it down and carry on with three. Then the No 2 CSU packed in. Shut that one down as well. Situation now critical with two feathered on one side and a heavy aircraft over inhospitable terrain. No's 3 and 4 were at takeoff power for 22 minutes IIRC (rated for 5 max) and didn't let the guys down. Following the landing and engine shutdown, ATC advised the crew to move the aircraft or it would be bulldozed. Restart 1, 3 and 4 to taxi. 1, 3 and 4 engines were changed as well as the CSU for No 2.
Pete and the rest of the crew earned their wets that night.

Re flying on one, I have a picture in a publication issued by the guys at Avro in 1989. The publication was a small numbers run to celibrate the 40th anniversary of the Shacklebomber. The pic shows a Mk 1 with 1, 2 and 3 feathered flying past the Farnborough crowd at about 100+ feet while strapped to an airborne lifeboat. Impressive pic.

camlobe

[Pontius Navigator]

Camlobe, thanks for the amplification. It would have been Bodo to Andoya as I recall the aircraft went the 'wrong' way, ie further away from Lossie because the weather to the south was cr^p.

As far as I recall Andoya was an unplanned diversion and not a destination.

[camlobe]

Pontius,
My pleasure. Wasn't aware of the unfortunate tanker driver. Poor sod.
Seem to remember being advised that there was a Norweigen Sea King on the wingtip for approx 15 minutes, not for support but to mark the site.

camlobe